@SethStewart "Anyone who thinks outlawing alcohol consumption is absurd
ought to have a heart-to-heart talk with any of the nearly 100,000 people whose
lives are taken directly by it each year (check the CDC fact sheet on alcohol
consumption in the US). This is clearly not a matter of religious belief alone.
Being a believer or a non-believer doesn't make these deaths (and worsened
health for the living, financial ruin and a host of other plagues) irrelevant or
non-existent."I could interchange your entire comment about
alcohol with "overeating" or eating "donuts" and the conclusion
would be the same. So, to be consistent do you also believe banning overeating
would be a legitimate act of the Utah legislature? To be clear, I am not talking
about DWI(which is already illegal), and should always be illegal, but
everything else is entirely a religious issue and has nothing to do with public
safety. Do you not believe in free will?
The correct solution is to implement prohibition fully. Anyone who thinks
outlawing alcohol consumption is absurd ought to have a heart-to-heart talk with
any of the nearly 100,000 people whose lives are taken directly by it each year
(check the CDC fact sheet on alcohol consumption in the US). This is
clearly not a matter of religious belief alone. Being a believer or a
non-believer doesn't make these deaths (and worsened health for the living,
financial ruin and a host of other plagues) irrelevant or non-existent.Absolutely no one benefits from allowing alcohol sales or consumption. The
practice is pure insanity. We should stop all sales immediately and not listen
to those who are trying to bully us into believing that we are "forcing
religion" onto people by a common sense move to save millions of lives.
I am LDS, non drinker. The so called zion curtain is beyond is just plain
ridiculous. I challenge anyone to provide one example of the zion curtain
discouraging any minor from consuming alcohol. I am against it.
RickyD - I couldn't agree more! Utah is a great to place raise a kid, if
your idea of raising a kid includes limiting exposure to thoughts and customs
you disagree with.TexasCamp - While I agree that some products at
the state liquor stores are cheaper than elsewhere, this is not the norm.
Furthermore, no one who has been to a decent liquor store outside of Utah could
claim that our stores have a great selection.
I travel often and partake of alcohol outside of Utah frequently. Any who claim
that Utah laws are normal are living under a rock. In no particular order
let's spell out the uniqueness and strangeness of utah law in a list:1. Limiting beer on tap to 4% while allowing much higher volumes as long
as comes from a bottle.2. Requiring that an individual buy food before
they can drink. (They don't actually have to eat it.)3. The Zion
Curtain.4. ID'ing a person three times (Waiter, Manager and
scanner).I suppose our legislature feels that Utah citizens are less
responsible than every other state in the Union and therefore we can't
handle laws based on being responsible consumers. That is the only conclusion
that even comes close to making sense. Anyone who wants to add to the list, feel
Utah is a wonderful place to live and raise a family because of it's
values. The values of the majority religion. If you want to live somewhere
with different values I suggest moving to California for a time. See what
it's like. It wont be as good as it is here.I hope the
legislature keeps it's majority values.
kwhitjr - Salt Lake City, UTInteresting that Republicans are supposed to
want less gov't in peoples lives but Utah's Republicans are famous for
doing the opposite. It is our observation since moving here Utah is famous for
kids but not for supervising them whether that is in a restaurant or grocery
store. They seem oblivious to what their kids are doing.The
legislature continues to not allow for meaningful, scientific sex education
because they don't want a nanny state. But, want to pass 144 pages of
legislation regarding alcohol?The hypocrisy is mind boggling. Either be a
nanny state with all of it or get out of the nanny business and trying to
replace parents. A Zion Curtain is not the answer anymore than a great big,
beautiful, 25 billion dollar wall in Mexico is. Parents do your job
whether it is supervising your kids, teaching them about sex or about drugs and
alcohol. Legislature stop trying to replace parents. Lord knows we don't
need more laws on the books either than we already have.
Don't be fooled Utahns! Utah has very normal and typical alcohol laws.
I'm always reading quotes and opinions from those who are assuming the
liquor laws are parochial because of the barely majority culture. Not so.
Having lived all over, I was surprised at how many Utahns I ran across that
complained about the Mormon laws restricting alcohol in Utah. Those folks
don't get out much. In Utah, I found that alcohol was easy to get in
restaurants, and State liquor stores to have an excellent selection, were
convenient and inexpensive. I found a small Texas brew for less than what it was
in Texas! Don't be bullied by those wanting super liberal alcohol laws.
It's all about the money, not bettering Utah. As you can see, as Utah has
liberaled up, it has become dirty, crime ridden, hostile and mean. The ONLY
ones who will benefit from liberal alcohol laws are the bar owners and liquor
salesmen with average Utahns paying for increased costs from Drunk Driving,
alcoholism and addiction. Beware!
Would you folks in the legislature hurry up and adjourn, before you can screw up
anything else?The only reason that most of these idiot bills, (and most
bills are idiotic,) are introduced is to keep the politician's name out in
front of the public. This way, at election time, they can point to all the
"good" they do, and why they should be reelected.We need to put in
term limits, and stick to them. For every elected office within this state,
whether it be state government, county government or city government.
As a libertarian, the Utah liquor laws make me absolutely cringe! Quit trying to
force your religious beliefs on everyone else people!
I'm from NY state and totally do not understand these laws. In NY minors
aren't allowed in a bar area, parents are then responsible enough to follow
the law and miss are kept away from it without the extra burden on the business!
Why can't Utah parents just keep their kids out of the bar area?
It's a step backward! Way too go legislature.
This article includes a photo of what people do behind the Zion Curtain.
I'm shocked this visual was printed by a family newspaper! Utah needs a law
requiring electronic age verification to ensure that nobody under the age of 21
is allowed within 10 feet of a paper or computer monitor that displays photos
At times the laws we make in Utah tend to be felt in animosity from the
minority. We have a legislation with the majority of one religion who tend to
make laws based upon only their knowledge and beliefs. it would behove us to
look at the broder picture and make sound laws that have the benefit of all
rather than singling out th minority.
When it comes to protecting children and myself in the matter of alcohol
I'll stick with the fast food and no alcohol served as long as possible.
My walls against alcohol are than a small space. Protect the children. I say.
I for the life of me do not understand the mindset of legislators.Is
there an ounce of proof that the Zion curtain or Zion moat deters underage
drinking?My dad use to take me to a lot of bars before jazz games,
when it was legal to take a minor in, and I never thought pouring drinks was
glamorous or made me want to drink alcohol.My opinion is if you do
not want your children to view alcohol then either do not go out to eat or call
ahead and make sure the restaurant doesn't serve alcohol.
"State lawmakers unveiled a much-anticipated Utah alcohol law reform bill
Monday, though several key provisions remain in flux less than two weeks before
the Legislature adjourns."Hmm. So, whats in the bill?
"Key provisions remain in flux"One might be able to say that
you "will have to pass it to find out what is in it"
Let's see if I have this right. Parents, not the State, have the
responsibility to teach their kids sex-ed. But, Utah government, not parents
have to educate kids about alcohol? We need free market solutions and less
restriction on businesses, to benefit the State economy. Unless it comes to
"People in the buffer zone would be subject to electronic age
verification."I've been running into more of this utter
nonsense. Being over 50 with grey hair and beard, being ID'd is insulting
and a waste of time. The other thing is, none of the places that
enforce this, can tell me what information is taken from my ID, how long is it
stored, who has access to that information. There is more than enough info
linked to my drivers license to create a false identity or worse. I've stopped buying beer from places like Target and Winco, until they
can post in writing the answers to the questions, I've posed above. Since all the profit from state run liquor stores goes to the state,
when they added taxes onto their pricing, isn't that pretty much double
dipping on the same tax?
Utah-"Nanny State Elevated".
"HB442 would allow restaurants to remove the so-called "Zion
Curtain" that shields customers from liquor mixing and pouring if they
install a 10-foot buffer between the area and where children are seated. People
in the buffer zone would be subject to electronic age verification."This is utter lunacy. What about adults who drink alcohol in
the restaurant with minors at the table?A zion moat is more absurd
than the stupid wall. The legislature aught to treat adults like adults. Maybe they should stop legislating their absurd form of