Comparing Muslims to Mormons is silly especially for a history professor.
Muslim is an over arching term referring to followers of Mohammed. Just like
Christian is a term referring to the followers of Christ. Not all Muslims
believe the same things, which is why they are fighting in the first place.
Which sect of Islam does he want to see dominate the US? Are all the open
borders folks ready to take sides when they bring their religious turf battles
here? Whose side will you be on, the Sunnis or the Shias? Wahabis? Some sects
are more liberal than others. The Women Marchers were marching with the most
extreme right of the Muslim women. Who is going to step up and protect the
moderate and liberal Muslim women when they start getting bullied by the Sharia
Muslims? ( who the left desperately wants to let in) It just doesn't make
sense to let the bullies in when the "least of these" are still left
over there. We need to protect the Muslims that align with our values not those
who are against us or who are actively seeking to infiltrate. I trust the
intelligence community to understand the problems of the region more than the
author and his sentimentality.
The list was formed by Obama's security task force for one. The top five
muslim countries arent even on the list. The list was formed for terrorists
reasons not religion. Indonesia has the most muslims and isnt on the list for
example. I was at a car repair shop waiting in the lobby next to a Muslim man
in his temple garments and could feel his hatred for me as an infidel. He didnt
want to look at me or respond to me at first when I as a fellow American opened
up my heart and conversation to him as a brother of the same God. The I am
better than you was all too apparent in his demeaner, when little did he know I
was wearing temple garments also. We should see what is being taught in their
Mosques cause in the Quran and the Hadith there is some scary verses that
threaten us, I know cause I have read some of them.
@Peter1 wrote, "Last I heard Muslims do not believe Christ is their Savior.
They recognize he lived. But, he is not their savior. "Peter,
you may not be aware that large numbers of Americans--ordinary, Caucasian,
descending from European immigrants in the 1800's--also do not believe that
Christ is their Savior. They either do not recognize him as divine or they do
not believe that there is anything that they need to be "saved" from.Should they all be deported?
@Dfan Red wrote, "There have been people of the all religions that take
things to far. The refugees from Syria are just trying to survive."Very true. Frighteningly, a lot of the commenters here are sending the
message that they really don't see the deaths of refugees as a problem.
Hitler demonstrated that the first step in making genocide
acceptable was to demonize the targets as being less human that you were.
@patriot wrote, "The deseret news is NOT a place to find fair and balanced
reporting anymore. Reader beware!!""not fair and
balanced" is what the pro-Trump people call articles which point out the
"inaccuracies" or, if you will, alternative facts.
It is equally absurd to assume that all 'Mormons' who immigrate to
Utah intend to break the laws of the United States. Because the Mormons
were breaking the laws with polygamy, all immigrants which followed their
religion would be breaking the law.
Is it not just so illiterate of so many Americans, quoting the directive where
it says priority to those of a minority religion of a country with a majority of
a different religion and calling it a Muslim ban. There are the Sunni, Shia,
Ibadi, Sufism, Quranism, Ahamadiyya, Black Muslim movements, Kharijite,
Quranists, YazdÂnism, Wahhabi, and Nondenominational. With
Sunni accounting for about 85% of all Muslims, the rest qualify as minorities
and in Syria, Iraq and other countries are often attacked and discriminated
against. You can be a Muslim and still qualify as a minority religion. Wahabists tend to produce the most violent sect.
Part 4- Joseph would more in common with the people that have died at the hands
of terrorists that seek to deny religious freedoms by brokering in the death of
christians , Jews, non radicals all over the world while their nations elected
officials (endowed with the duty to protect their citizens) sat by derilict in
their duties because it wasn't politically expedient. trump is simply
putting the priority where it belongs.....American citizens safety. As the
refugees are vetted and safe, we welcome them with open arms! Can't wait
to show them the blessings and virtues of freedom and safety!! Until then, we
must make prudent decisions on a case by case basis to avoid the horror that
even one enemy of America can do while posing as the needy that we so love to
aid. It's no different than the way we would admit a stranger into our
Part 3-Furthermore, your comparison to the wrongs committed against Joseph in
the early days of the LDS church wreak of ignorance and an effort to curry
sympathy from the members that hold him sacred. Jospeh smith was a son of
America and as a citizen of this country was ENTITLED to rights and protections
that under the constitution. He was abused by leaders of other faiths for his
beliefs (peaceful beliefs) that infringed on no one else's. He (and other
citizens) were robbed of their rightful land and homes, abused, rejected by
their government at local, state and presidential levels. He was ordered dead
by the very nation he was born to. He was NOT seeking asylum in a FOREIGN
nation. He was seeking asylum in his OWN NATION and denied that right, dying at
the hands of his own people while our nations leaders sat derilict in its duties
to protect and preserve him and the many LDS members that were slain along with
Part 2- The sole function of government is to keep its citizens safe and ensure
its citizens liberty. That duty does NOT extend to those from foreign nations.
That is why we can't just take people blindly. Furthermore, your argument
about americas moral responsibility is rediculois. Where prey tell is your
article about our moral duty to stop the destruction and genicises in Syria over
the last year + under Obama. Your outraged that trump won't let refugees
in but nothing is said about the duty of America to engage while hundreds of
thousands of people are muedered ans targeted for their Christian
faith....please spare your outrage. The blood of those people is in the hands
of the nations and leaders that oppressed them and murder don't them. We
cannot be responsible for a world on fire that won't accept the freedoms
and rights that are the only thing that will save them. We are only responsible
to do what we can as we can but the Americans safety comes first.
Part 1- Wow, i can't get over his intellectually dishonest your article
is. Your premise is false to say that it is a ban on muslims. You may
extrapolate as you wish but his executive order was clear. He is temporarily
stopping immigration from only 7 of the 50+ Muslim majority nations while they
figure out a system that actually vets our refugees admitted as he current
system is inadequate to say the least. He has however, said that anyone coming
from those regions (the 7 + more to come) that cannot provide appropriate
documentation for the required vetting cannot enter. How exactly is that
unreasonable considering that KSM (9/11) said that they radical Islamist
terrorists would use our refugee programs and constitution once admitted to get
them into our country. There are wolfs in sheeps clothing. Shouldn't we
at least make an effort to be thorough in our efforts to identify which are
dangerous??? There are so many instances of terrorists in the last 8 years that
had social media filled with anti American and pro Islamist views and they got
into our country because the current policy viewed the social media of these
people as private. What????
When you start with a false premise, the rest of your argument falls of
it's own weight.There is not a Muslum ban.Fake assumptions on
There is nothing like scary times to find out whether America deserves to called
the "home of the brave." There is nothing like scary times to bring out
the true colors and convenient memory loss of many in the church. My family has
been so appalled by the commentary we have read on social media outlets from
fellow church members, we wonder if they would have the gall enough to say them
at a pulpit on Sunday. Refugees are the most vetted group of people who come to
the US - the process takes roughly 3 years - and vetted thoroughly not only by
the US but by the UN. And what lengths would you go through if you lived in a
land where the police, government officials, and citizens are bought and
murdered by drug lords, and you aren't fortunate enough to have a family
member living in US, and you have to wait 10 - 15 years and come up with
thousands of dollars - that is American dollars - all while you can't even
feed your family? How do you know what you wouldn't do in those
circumstances? Ignore history, ignore the gospel, ignore the brethren; the tares
are becoming much easier to distinguish from the wheat.
It is not a "Muslim" ban, as much as people want to make it out that
way.The 7 countries were identified (by congress) as be supporters
and exporters of terrorists. It is common sense to be very serious about
vetting them. Even though these countries likely do not have histories on these
people, we still must try.Be serious, who would willngly take the
chance and open your home to people that you know nothing about. I would not
let potential terrorists in my home, I would not be protecting my family
I am so thankful for Church leaders who recognize dangerous behavior by
government leaders. I am thankful that Deseret News Opinion staff recognized
how similar what happened to Mormans in the past is to what is happening to
refugees currently.UnAmerican behavior is UnAmerican, whatever year
it is. In this country we believe in innocent until proven guilty. We
prosecute individuals, not groups, not political groups, not religious groups,
only individuals. As a Mormon, I try my best not to judge others
and rely on Heavenly Father to take care of that part. I pray that others will
do the same.
Not one terrorist act in the U.S. has been committed by a Muslim refugee. Not
one terrorist act has been committed in the U.S. by anyone from the seven
countries listed. Trump stated that members of minority religions --
Christianity in particular -- coming from the named Muslim-majority countries
would be kept out. That makes it a Muslim ban. Yes, there is always a tiny
chance that a Muslim might commit murder in the U.S. Ted Bundy, Charles Manson,
Jeffrey Dahmer, the Columbine killers, Jared Loughner, Adam Lanza, Timothy
McVeigh, James Holmes -- not Muslims. Someone might climb a university tower,
shoot up a workplace, or target a particular person. We can't live in fear.
The crime rate among immigrants (legal or not) is lower than natural-born
Americans'. Yes, some Muslims are extremists. Remember the Mountain Meadows
Massacre? Canada just had a mass shooting of Muslims by a Christian extremist.
How the Lord must weep over our lack of charity and good example! BTW, this land
was set aside for the restoration of the Gospel, not for the exclusive habitat
of believing Christians. Being blessed is not the same thing as being superior.
To those of you who keep bringing up Obama's action during 2011. It was
nothing like Trumps current action. “President Obama never imposed a
six-month ban on Iraqi processing. For several months in 2011, there was a lower
level of Iraqi resettlement, as the government implemented certain security
enhancements. ... there was never a point during that period in which Iraqi
resettlement was stopped, or banned.”
In know what you mean. When the twin towers fell on 911, I thought it was the
Amish, it could not have been the religion of peace from the middle east.
Mormons also believe that this land, America, is dedicated for those that
believe in Jesus Christ. Last I heard Muslims do not believe Christ is
their Savior. They recognize he lived. But, he is not their savior. Some of
these Mormons need to visit countries where Sharia Law is in place. Then they
will see the need for a ban. They will continue to slaughter Americans. We are
infidels. Wake up people..... will you allow your families slaughtered. This
is a sacred land and it must be protected. Remember Moroni built walls to
protect cities. I bet all the bashers have vivint alarm systems in their
Give us Barabbas... wow how history repeats itself... How Gods covenant
people continue to have blood on their hands.
Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of 'wahabbism' and state sponsored.
Don't know what it is? Please research.Two terrorists were
behind San Bernardino. The man US natural and the woman born in Pakistan raised
in Saudi Arabia. 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt
and Lebanon.Why weren't these countries included on the ban
list? Trump and Bannon aren't idiots, especially the latter.
Take a peek at his extreme views of the judeo-christian vs islamic world. So
what are they really up to?Lastly, this is an ideology that is
spread via channels that aren't boats, planes or trains. Good luck keeping
it out, it's already here.
Interesting that those claiming "trump is targeting muslims even if
it's supposed to look like he's targeting nationality" are the
same ones who refuse to call the terror in those areas Islamic.
The "Mormon ban" is still on the books. Section 212(a)(10)(A) of the
Immigration and Nationality Act.All Mormons, prior to the 1890s,
were obliged as an obligation of their faith to believe in polygamy.
I don't know how many times people need to say this stuff, but I will
repeat it again for those that just follow the headlines and don't actually
look into facts. This is clearly #fakenews. There is no ban on Muslims. There
is a 90-day moratorium on visas from 7 countries, but only one is even in the
top 10 for number of Muslim citizens. And that is Iran, who has openly
threatened the US since the gulf wars. Democrats have called it a Muslim ban,
incorrectly, to fuel their constant protest. They won't stop protesting
until the next election. Confirmation bias is getting ridiculous now.
omm please let everyone know the birth place of the female gender San Bernardino
shooter. Not American born or raised. Your argument falls flat. Also the
great honorable President Obama blocked all from a number of Muslim countries at
different times starting in 2011 with a six month ban on Iraq. And what about
his termination of mid journey Cubans his last week in office. This
immigration is a false flag liberals are using to push their own agendas.
JaysonNever did I say your statistics were wrong, just that you were
applying them incorrectly.How is it that Sweden two years ago
isn't the rape capital of Europe, they let in a bunch of refugees, and then
become the rape capital? Did the natives get restless, and start mass raping
their own? I don't think so.Germany's Merkel is pro
immigration, dumps 3 million migrants on her people, and two years later stars
conducting mads deportations? Why?Well it probably has something to
do with the Cologne mass rape, which was committed by Syrian refugees, and the
Truck of Peace barrelling through a market place.Not to mention the
spike in crime from Murder, rape, child sexual abuse, all the way down to
stealing. The German public bathhouses have had to bar Islamic men from entering
due to the mountain of complaints about sexual harassment from the women.You can't sit their and tell me the migrants aren't causing
this. Nobody since the late 1800's has ever mass imported another group
into their country, and the U.S. did it with the Irish, a people's who
culture is very similar to ours.
For the record, our vetting is already extreme, and a large majority of active
LDS voted for Trump, which is hard to comprehend. Commenters who are trying to
defend the chaos he is introducing into world and national affairs need to take
off the rose-colored glasses and see this man for the danger he is, on all
fronts. I'm sure there will be more to come, primarily because of his
insatiable need to dominate the news.
your title is wrong. It is not a Muslim ban. There are over 40 Islamic countries
that are not on the list.
@JackBuckeye - Marysville, OHJan. 29, 2017 5:11 a.m.In plain
English, it's not a ban on Muslims. It's a 90 day ban on persons
coming from certain countries that are known terrorist havens. Period.========= In plain English -- Then what about Saudi Arabia,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait, United Arabs Emirates, India, Malaysia, Croatia,
Russia, and Ireland?[perhaps - it's because Donald Trump owns
properties in some of those countries, but I digress....]BTW -- The
LAST 3 terrorist attacks in this country were all committed by AMERICANS born
right here.If it not about religion, and only about countries with
known terrorists, then America with it's American should be on our own ban
list as well.
But all terriorists have radical islam ties. We do have a right to protect
ourselves and at the same time be compassionate towards others.
I think calling it a "Muslim Ban" is drama.How is it a
"Muslim Ban" if there's no mention of Muslim in it, or any check of
your religion in the policy being enacted?Other predominately Muslim
countries were not included in the Executive Order. That proves he's not
banning all Muslims.The countries he did temporarily restrict were
identified by the previous Congress and previous President as sponsors of
terrorism. So giving them more scrutiny on immigration would be prudent.I know Trump said "Muslim Ban" one time, but he has backed off
that. That's a good thing (that he no longer wants a Muslim Ban). That is
progress. Even small progress is progress.IMO this is not totally
about religion (so weird... atheists and Leftists protesting in defense of
religion all of a sudden). But it is partially about religion. As long as
these 7 countries sponsor terrorism, and this religion teaches Jihad... they are
going to get extra attention when immigrating to the USA.Terrorist
groups in these nations have stated they want to get people into America, and
attack Americans...Extra precautions are justified in this case.
The trouble is -- NONE of the terrorists in America were foreign or refugees! Orlando Florida and San Bernardino shooters, and Boston bombers were
ALL born and raised n the U.S. of A.! The 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi
Arabia! So please tell me again -- why are women and children from
Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, and Somalia being banned? A ban is a ban
is ban. Donald Trump is wrong! - and those supporting him, and emboldening
share are just as wrong and share the blame for this!
Multi:I asked you to provide statistics and analysis regarding the
European experience to substantiate your claims. You have not done so.
Therefore, you provide no merit for argument irregardless of our degree of
agreement or disagreement.You call me "wrong," which I am
not. But you refuse to even provide underlying merit to arguments similar to
our current president.I stated the European Socialist model is a
root cause to enable greater segregation and less assimilation of the 2nd
generation of Muslim immigrants who are the primary source of terrorist threats
in Europe to date. I agree the Europeans have not managed their
immigration policy carefully. But you cannot simply attribute it to Muslims
which leads eventually to the erosion of religious freedom and greater
religious persecution.You stated there are cultures that are
incompatible with other cultures. I don't necessarily disagree. Sharia
Law violates numerous tenets of the US Constitution and is not compatible. But
positive assimilation allows for healthy integration of cultures where they are
reconciled into common values and principles. The US is historically an example
This article is a joke. Mormons posed no physical threat to anybody, meanwhile
Islamic Terrorism is responsible for countless deaths in just the past two
years. Until people from these countries can be vetted adequately, there is not
reason why we should not impose a temporary halt on immigration. Enough with the
references to "Christian terrorism." Stop making excuses. Of the all the
people in the Middle East, Christians and Jews face the highest levels of
No, we don't "all know better". If there were no terrorists there
would be no issue (unless of course Sharia law were promoted and lived here).This is a terrorism issue, not a religion issue. Thank you President
Trump for at least trying to protect our children and grandchildren.
EastcoastcougClearly you don't realize that Islamic terrorism
is the only real terrorism the world faces right now.No not all
Muslim's blow up buildings, but their ideology is the only one outside of
Antifa communists that do so, and they do so at a much higher rate than the
communists do.If you weren't starw manning people's
arguments so badly we might take you seriously, but you've grossly
misrepresented people's arguments, and even thrown in a huge helping of
identity politics to boot.Terrorism is not the only concern people
have about Islamic immigration, just look at the huge rise in crime in Europe.
Women in Germany being stoned on the street for not dressing properly, not to
mention the huge threat of rape which has been proven accurate from the Syrian,
and North African refugees.The GOP doesn't need to paint the
refugees as bad people, they are aptly doing that themselves, and not to mention
the terrorism that comes into play, and the Islamic ideologists are
realistically the only people committing mass acts of terror these days.
I issue my strongest possible condemnation that my comment comparing this to the
other Sept 11th attack (1857) is not being approved. To blame an entire group
for the actions of a few in unconscionable. The vitriol expressed by many of
the approved comments helps bolster my hypothesis.
Was 911 an inside job? did deplited uranium stroud all across their countries.
maybe the wall around us isn't a bad idea.
@DougSegesman and the rest of you stereotypers,So the ALL the
Muslims blow up buildings?? All Muslims practice Sharia Law? How many Muslims do
you actually know? Do we persecute and stereotype all Christians because some
have fought wars in the name of Christianity and burned Jews and other heretics
at the stake? Many Atheists hold that against Christians still - is that right,
too?Some of you people have no idea what you are talking about and
love to put everyone in some kind of convenient box of prejudice. And then you
have the temerity to declare that the DNews is 'Fake News'.
Many of you say this is not a Muslim ban. We all know better. The right wing of
the GOP has been saying for years that Islam itself is responsible for terrorism
and that the religion has no place in America. Trump appealed to that thinking
over and over. We are all frustrated when someone blows up people in
the name of religion. But we know the overwhelming number of religious people
are peaceful and that religion is only co-opted to promote hate - the ultimate
but sad irony. It's sad too that some of us buy into that thinking.This ban also assumes that current vetting processes, which are already
quite long and substantial, are inadequate. Trump's ploy all along has been
to convince us that everything we've been doing has been a
'Disaster' (his favorite 2016 word) and that he alone possessed the
solution. His statements about Islam and allowing 'only
Christians' are enough for me. It is puzzling that for the rest of you, the
Truth is 'fake news'.
Compassion with no thinking involved is asking to be robbed blind of everything.
There must be order in the process. Bishops in the church would be in big
trouble if they did not use tithing resources wisely. The USA far exceeds in
compassion and numbers of legal immigrants but there needs to be effective order
and protections in the process.
JaysonReally? You are going to tell me that the huge rise in crime
in both Germany, and Sweden isn't caused by the recent influx of
refugees?So these relatively safe places had a huge uptick in crime
from a second generation somehow? It didn't have anything to do with the
mass importation of the migrants? Ya Cologne was done by the second gen of the
migrants.Your application of statistics is off.
Multi:What evidence supports crime rates that can be attributed to
immigrants in Europe or certain cultures are proven to be adverse to
assimilation with our culture?FBI and census data shows an increase
in criminality from the immigrant generation to the subsequent generation at
25%A Pew Center analysis indicates offspring of immigrants are
assimilated into the same societal risk factors as the native population. Europe's social welfare approach foments entitlement and
dependency. Similar to the unintended consequences of our Great Society
programs and education system which undermines traditional values of
self-sufficiency or positive family cohesion and values of immigrant parents.
This creates conflicts within immigrant families. Same generational
conflict we see in the population.I'd have to verify with Rand
Corp, but if memory serves it is the subsequent generations of immigrants that
have been the source of delinquency and terrorism in Europe, not the
immigrant/refugee generation.The source of incompatibility you argue
may actually come from our current cultural flaws, not exclusively from the
culture of immigrants.
JaysonWhy don't you stop straw manning terrorism with the
incompatibility of cultures.Germany allowed a horde of migrants in,
and they got Cologne, not to mention a truck of peace driven by somebody who
believes in Islamic tenets.Sweden is the rape capital of Europe, how
did this happen? Oh they let in hundreds of thousands of immigrants from the
Islamic nations.How about that terrorism in France, Amsterdam?The terrorism is not what frightens us, it is the incompatibility of
their culture with ours.
PhxBlue: "There's a reason I lock my doors at night in my home. Does
this make me mean or unreasonable?"Unfortunately, for many on
the left your actions are completely unreasonable. If you lock your doors even
if you think you live in a safe neighborhood, then it must be because you hate
everyone who could possibly come through uninvited. You must think that everyone
outside is a rapist and a murderer even though they are a tiny minority. Your
fears are completely unfounded even though everyone knows that there really are
rapists and murderers out there.It also doesn't matter if your
neighbor was victimized just last week by a home invader, you are still
unreasonable to lock your doors somehow.
Kralon: "We can only hope that America's system of checks and balances
can mitigate the damage Trump will do and people will wise up enough so he
doesn't get another term."It didn't work when Obama
was elected so why should you hope that it would work under Trump?
It is an overreaction but wait! There will be more.
A premise has been put forward by the current president; and many who share his
ideology; that immigrants, particularly, Mexican immigrants commit a
disproportionate amount of crime than the native born population. It
is true that from 1990 to 2013, the amount of undocumented immigrants tripled
which is a valid premise of the need to properly enforce current immigration law
while evaluating the need to reform a system clearly broken. However, extrapolated data from the FBI and the last three decennial census
indicate the incarceration rates of the native-born were anywhere from two to
five times higher than that of immigrants.In 2010, less-educated
native-born men age 18-39 had an incarceration rate of 10.7 percent—more
than triple the 2.8 percent rate among foreign-born Mexican men, and five times
greater than the 1.7 percent rate among foreign-born Salvadoran and Guatemalan
men.We need lawful and orderly immigration by means of sound policy
that is based on the facts, not perception and fear that only compound the issue
of immigration as opposed to driving a sound solution.
#1 There is a strong vetting process already in place for refugees. On average,
officials say it's 18 to 24 months before a refugee is approved for
admission to the U.S.#2 The immigration ban can hurt businesses. In a
quarterly filing this week, Microsoft said changes to U.S. immigration policy
that restrict the flow of people “may inhibit our ability to adequately
staff our research and development efforts.” #3 No person accepted
to the United States as a refugee, Syrian or otherwise, has been implicated in a
terrorist attack since the Refugee Act of 1980 set up systematic procedures for
accepting refugees into the United States, according to an analysis of terrorism
immigration risks by the Cato Institute.#4 When Trump initially proposed
his Muslim ban in December 2015, Sen. Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) introduced a resolution
expressing “the sense of the Senate that the United States must not bar
individuals from entering into the United States based on their religion, as
such action would be contrary to the fundamental principles on which this nation
was founded.” It passed 96-4. (this was a republican majority senate)
I would like to present something unique to the president: facts, and not
“alternative facts” based upon ideology, prejudice, or fear.The Cato institute presents longitudinal data based on issued visa
categories of admitted immigrants over the last 41 years to formulate an
analysis. The data was further extrapolated for the 154 foreign-born terrorists
who entered the US by visa categories from 1975 to 2015. The data sources are
the US State Department, FBI coupled with the RAND Database of global terrorist
incidents.Statistically, a US citizen stands a 1 in 3.64 billion
chance annually of being murdered in a terrorist attack by a refugee.Furthermore, the greatest propensity for terrorists to be admitted to the US
comes from the issuance of Legal Permanent Residency and Tourist Visas; not from
the granting of refugee status or a form of asylum.I agree with the
president that all vetting processes stand for improvement, however; the current
administration is statistically focused on the wrong group of immigrants to
prevent the further admittance of potential terrorists.That is
factual; not anecdotal or based on a form of bias or unfounded perception.
Statement today by Senators McCain and Graham:"Our most
important allies in the fight against ISIL are the vast majority of Muslims who
reject its apocalyptic ideology of hatred. This executive order sends a signal,
intended or not, that America does not want Muslims coming into our country.
That is why we fear this executive order may do more to help terrorist
recruitment than improve our security."And how!
As has been pointed out, it's not a permanent ban and it's not against
Muslims. It's a temporary pause in immigration from countries with
terrorist problems. When adequate security "vetting" measures are in
place, immigration will resume. It's a long-overdue overhaul that will
make our country safer. Using the phrase "Muslim ban" shows bias and
discredits your position.
Only a 90 day ban. Trump isn't the first President to do this. To say that
this was a lifetime ban is irresponsible and totally baseless. Trump only wanted
a temporary ban to befin with so they can set up a vetting process he said that
from day one in that initial campaign speech but fake news deliberately twisted
this into something it never was.
Karl Rove was "Bush's Brain."Now Steve Bannon is
"The Donald's Brain."Bannon is far more dangerous that
Rove ever was.
@patriot "There is no muslim ban. Read the presidents directive -- it NEVER
mentions the word Muslim. ..Trump's ban is for ALL people regardless of
religious affiliation from TERRORIST countries until we have proper vetting in
place. America first!! "But, I read the directive:"Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to
the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on
the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the
individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of
nationality."This is designed to discriminate against Muslims.
Many Muslims have helped the United States, and this backhands them. This is a
The point the author is making is that Mormons were once a hated and persecuted
people and of all people Mormons should be sympathetic to the plight of refugees
who are fleeing violence and persecution. I like what Governor Herbert said,
"Refugees are not terrorist they are fleeing terrorism". If the goal
of terrorism is to spread fear, hate and discord then terrorists are winning
Hardly any persecuted Christian makes it to the USA for some reason; we seem
to be importing, not the persecuted but, the persecutors. These persecutors
hate Christians and Jews.I like President Trump's statement
that we should give a preference to persecuted Christians. I would like to know
how and when he aims to do it for it may be much needed.
The logic used in the article reminds me of those who criticize another of
president Trump's Executive Orders regarding immigration - building the
southern border wall. I've heard critics compare it to the Berlin Wall.
The flaw in that logic is that the Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN
rather than keeping outsiders out. President Obama's new home in Chicago
likewise has a wall around it (not just a white picket fence) to keep people
out. Why is his wall fine while Trump's wall isn't?We
have the right to decide who we let into this country. Should we let in those
who will be more likely to cause crime and take our money (and send a lot of it
out of the country to their relatives back home...thereby hurting our
economy)..or should we let in those who want to become Americans and adopt our
culture and views regarding individual liberty and freedom and make America a
better place?President Trump is doing exactly what he should to
protect America, protect the jobs of Americans and protect our way of life.
The logic used in the piece is greatly flawed. This is no Muslim ban since
Muslims from Morocco and Indonesia and other Muslim majority countries can still
enter. Even Christians and Yazidis from those listed countries, who are greatly
persecuted in those countries, are banned entrance. I read yesterday of
Christians from Syria who were turned away at the last minute from entering.Germany and Sweden have had massive crime waves due to letting in
uneducated (unemployable) people who have nothing on their hands but time and
distain. Our refugee program should be aimed at those who are most likely to be
harmed by staying in their countries. Germany and Sweden chose to let in those
LEAST likely to be harmed - young Muslim men. We should focus on letting in
Christians, Jews and Yazidis who are more likely to assimilate and be productive
citizens.Europe allowed them to create Muslim enclaves which breed
crime and deter assimilation. Any Muslim refugees here should be scattered so
that they would have to assimilate and learn English and be too few in number to
form gangs and enclaves as they do in Europe. We should bring in Middleeast
Christians, Yazidis and Jews first though.
Pro Muslims tell us that twice as many people have died from domestic terrorists
than from Islamic terrorists. Hmmmm. Thought there were about 3 million
Muslims in the nation around 1% of the population thus one might say Islamic
terrorists are likely to occur 50 times more likely than domestic. What does
that suggest. Maybe good to restrict potential terrorists.
It's clear that the small differences in this (worthwhile) comparison is
allowing so many commenters to ignore the larger message. Of all people, Mormons
should be highly sensitive to this issue ... and the first group to stand up for
the rights of the "least of these" who are seeking shelter and solace.
If you consider yourself a Christian, you should be putting Christianity over
partisanship and patriotism.The policy to screen for prospective
terrorists is always a worthy effort, but a blanket ban on every individual from
any country is completely short-sighted, unAmerican and unChristian. Fellow LDS friends, please review Elder Patrick Kearon's general
conference talk "Refuge from the Storm" and use this as a guiding factor
in how to respond to this topic and ban.God bless us all.
There is a new electronic system for vetting that can 10 persons with one
operator within 10 minutes and is 90%+ accurate. The problem is that Muslims
from any country can eventually become radicalized and all the sweet and nice
Muslims that have gone to Europe as has been mentioned do not have such a great
record. Yes I am paranoid.
Why is it that almost every time a read a story about Muslims or Islam the
writer fails to differentiate between Islamist, a political movement, and Islam
the religion. Both consider themselves Muslim. The two are not the same and to
write of one and not consider the other is either intellectually naive or
dishonest. The reality is they are inseparable connected and until Islam the
religion reforms itself and separates from Islamist and the political movement
they will continue to suffer. Love really has nothing to do with it.
interesting to me that whenever these issues get discussed and actions like
trump's executive order are created, somehow saudi arabia always gets away
free. its generally acknowledged by most that saudi arabia funds a large chunk
of militant islamic terrorism globally, and its a fact that almost all of the
9/11 bombers were saudis.right after 9/11 the bush team made sure
that prominent saudis were able to leave america quickly~~when no one else was
flying. now, for some reason that i don't understand, trump choose to not
include saudi arabia in his executive order. it is the saudi money or
something else that makes them the exception?
Respectfully I have to disagree with this article. Obama banned Iraq refugees
for 6 months in 2011. I don't remember anyone protesting then. I don't
even recall the media reporting about it. It's amazing to me how easy it is
for some people to fall in line with the media & react to their reporting
just the way they planned for the public to react. What Pres.Obama did then and
what Pres.Trump is doing now is no different.I find nothing wrong with
President Trump's ban for 3 months or President Obama's ban for 6
months. Until the President can assure the American people are safe in
their own country I see the ban as essential to our safety. Isn't it the
job of the President to keep the American citizens safe? And to compare this ban
to U.S. Secretary of State William Evarts' effort to prevent Mormons from
immigrating to the United States is ridiculous.These matters have NOTHING
to do with religious bigotry and intolerance towards a man’s religious
sentiments. It's about keeping the ones who want to kill us out. And until
they figure out a way to vet them properly this is how it has to be.
You might look at Shania law. Big difference.
Having lived in a Christian dominant and cooperative community where the people
considered Mormons non-Christian and the feelings from that time, I know what it
is like. Someone broke into our chapel and poured gas all around and lit a fire
to burn the chapel. That happened in the northwest and not just in the south.
No investigation was done and justice was not completed. This was not in Nauvou
or Farr West nor in Independence. We need to remember that we live in a world
God created and all people are created by Him. We are to love God and all
We already have extreme vetting of immigrants, particularly refugees. It can
take years for a Syrian refugee to pass through all the bureaucracy, paperwork,
and interviews before coming to the US, all while avoiding being killed in an
ugly war. Trumps order is directly targeted at Muslims even if it
pretends to focus on nationality. "prioritize refugee claims made by
individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the
religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's
country of nationality."His order singles out seven majority Muslim
nations, thus he is specifically targeting Muslims. Should we do
more to help these people in their own countries? Sure. Should we also do more
to take in refugees? Absolutely. Refugees could once look to America as a nation
of hope. Trump's policy makes us look like a nation of fear.
The author's comparison between Mormon immigration, which was legal at the
time despite claims to the opposite, and the refugee problem today is
disingenuous at best. First, look at the problems these Muslim immigrants in
Europe are causing. Despite propaganda and false claims to the contrary, Mormon
immigrants did none of these. This ban is aimed at preventing what is happening
in Europe form happening here. It is legal. It is constitutional. The judge
is wrong and is playing to left wing politics. He should be removed from the
"When did the Mormons fly airplanes in to buildings?"Excellent point. But then does't that bring up this next point? Those who "fly airplanes in to buildings" were almost
exclusively from from Saudi Arabia. If this "ban" is aimed at
terrorism, shouldn't that country be on the list?
In plain English, it's not a ban on Muslims. It's a 90 day ban on
persons coming from certain countries that are known terrorist havens. Period.
Bottom line - deciding immigration law is not within Trump's authority. He
must work with congress to pass laws with regard to who is and is not allowed in
this country. He may be justified in his frustration over congress' lack
of action - but that does not give him the ability to establish immigration
quotas or restrictions on people. This is one executive order that went well
beyond Trump's authority.There is no excuse for Trump to not be
working with congress here. He has both house and senate in his camp. I get
Trump is used to being able to just dictate his will - but this job
doesn't afford that right to his current job. Trump has the
right to manage the process - to give directives on how laws are enforced and
priorities - but he can't create his own immigration laws, bans nor quotas.
He must work with congress.
Here's a quote attributed to Pastor Martin Niemoller, reflecting on his
experiences in Nazi Germany."First they came for the Socialists, and I
did not speak out-Because I was not a Socialist.Then they came for
the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-Because I was not a Trade
Unionist.Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-Because I was not a Jew.Then they came for me-and there was no one left
to speak for me"I would hope that all freedom loving people
would speak out against Trump's vitriolic actions.
The constant comparison to early Mormon times is getting really old. they have
nothing to do with each other. A nation has the right to protect itself from
terrorists. Have we forgotten 9/11 already. Saudi Arabia should be added to
list since many terrorists have come from there. If we let all 7 billion people
in the world immigrate to the US, would it solve all the problems. Of course
not. We have limited resources. There must be balanced immigration an all
immigrates must assimilate.
Trump has said that religious minorities from these Muslim nations may enter. So
it kinda is a Muslim ban. Here's the thing. San Bernardino, Fort Hood,
Boston, etc involved Muslims who were radicalized long after they came to this
country. So banning entry will do nothing to make us safer. It just panders to
paranoia, while harming thousands of decent, desperate people. So much for the
"home of the brave".
People can be helped without bringing them into our living rooms. Mideast
culture and history is filled with wars and contention and would eventually
clash with ours.
@patriot. Weren't you and others upset that Obama didn't call a
terrorist radical Islamist?However you are defending trump because
his order did not specifically say to ban Muslims. Call a spade a spade this is
a temporary ban of Muslims. Also didn't see Saudia Arabia on
the list I wonder why that is.
I disagree.The Mormon ban/Governor Boggs, etc., had nothing to do with
renegade Mormons randomly going around and blowing people up in suicide vests.
But in totality was regarding anti-Mormon sentiment.President Trumps ban,
is not only temporary, until around 90 days, till we can regulate the true
terrorists from coming into our country better, but also is based on keeping the
terrorists OUT of our country from blowing people up. Those terrorists are
monks or catholic priests, but are Muslim extremists.Stop focusing on
religion so much. Rather, the focus needs to be on those who cause the terror!
Sure they are primarily from Islamic countries. That's not my problem nor
yours, but Islamic countries' problems until at least they assist us better
and we can regulate the terrorist from such countries from infiltrating our own
country.Trump is very smart! And I applaud him for such a bold move...
I read all the above comments and it is amazing how uninformed people are. The
largest terrorist attack on US soil was complete 19 Saudis and one Egyptian on
9/11. Neither of those countries are having immigration stopped. We have a
vetting system and so far it has worked. Most if not all other attacks have been
committed by US citizens. Not refugees. Please do a little research. The Islamic
faith is not normally violent, but there are always people who go to far. There
have been people of the all religions that take things to far. The refugees from
Syria are just trying to survive.
@patriotYes, it's a ban on anyone from those countries... but
there's one little detail... Trump thinks Christian refugees in that area
have been ignored by Obama. He's interested in getting more of them out. So
just wait, they're working on a way to make exceptions that allow
Christians to come out.
Uncle Rico, the 9/11 terrorists were from countries not on the list. Countries
where the Trump Organization has business ties. I see glaring conflicts of
interest. In fact, none of the terrorists acts since 9/11 were committed by
people from these countries. This will not make us safer. And we better hope
none of the Iran necular inspectors are US citizens, because I think we are
going to be banned from that country.
The analogy in this article doesn’t hold. The allegations against Mormons
were specious. It is naive, however, to imagine that migration from
Muslim-majority nations is risk-free. Germany learned this the hard way when it
allowed mass immigration. On just one night in 2015, over 1,200 German women
were sexually abused or raped by immigrants. German authorities attempted to
hide these assaults, as did the German and US press. In addition,
the status of women in Muslim nations is a far cry from what the status of women
has ever been in the US. Numerous reputable surveys have found that large
majorities of Muslims blame women wearing revealing clothing for inviting sexual
assaults. Moreover, we must never forget the lack of vigilance that
enabled the terrorist attacks of 9/11.We must be compassionate, and
not completely close the door to immigration, but we owe it to our children to
be wise also. We should not use false analogies to imagine that all cultures are
equivalent to our own, and that there is no risk to immigration. If we do this,
we risk subjecting our daughters to the sexual assaults seen in Germany, and our
society to terrorism seen throughout the Middle East.
Fake news once again.1. There is no muslim ban. Read the presidents
directive -- it NEVER mentions the word Muslim. This is a lie by the media and
the writer of this article should know better and apoligize . Trump's ban
is for ALL people regardless of religious affiliation from TERRORIST countries
until we have proper vetting in place. America first!! 2. The Mormons were
expelled and issued an extermination order by governor Boggs. This has NOTHING
to do with Trumps order. There WAS a religious test in this case with Gov Boggs.
this article is FAKE news and a bogus comparison and people better
start wising up and not accepting opinion unless facts are given and checked.
That didn't happen with this article sadly. The deseret news is NOT a place
to find fair and balanced reporting anymore. Reader beware!!
@DNews subscriber:"Too many attacks have already taken place because
we have not screened thoroughly enough. No more!"No attacks in
the US from people from the 7 countries that Trump banned. Please do some
Well, people are not cutting off heads, driving car bombs into crowds, burning
captives, and blowing up world historical sites in the name of Mormonism, so I
don't think a Muslim ban looks like a Mormon ban.
It's a little more complicated than just substituting "Muslim" for
"Mormon" and then shouting "kumbaya!" There are some serious
differences and even more serious things at stake here, like the existence of
the free world. Instead of demonizing people who bring up the reality of Radical
Islam, we should be supporting and backing the efforts of those in the Muslim
community that are trying to combat it. I'm talking about Muslims like
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Tawfiq Hamid, Khurram Dara, Zuhdi Jasser or Asra Nomani.
Instead so-appointed PC police attack or repel the efforts of these brave would
be reformers. If we are serious about peace and ending the violence, we must
deal with this issue head on instead of just calling everyone trying to deal
with the problem a bigot while more and more Islamic youth fall prey to
So we should do what the new rape capital of Europe did then? (Sweden) Just let
our country be over run with people who's culture, is so very opposite of
ours, and isn't inclusive of all.Sweden is absolutely
regretting letting in the amount of refugees that they did. So is Germany, a
huge part of Brexit was the inability of Britain to control who came into their
country. Do you think France is happy with the Islamic problem they are
currently dealing with?The Islamic culture isn't anywhere near
ready to deal with the progressive culture of the western nations. The most
progressive Islamic nations fall terribly short of what we would consider moral.
Not a single Islamic nation passes the Human Rights test.Women in
Saudi Arabia must wear the Hijab, or Naqib, it isn't a choice for them.
Turkish men can marry girls as young as 12, Jordan has a cultural problem with
honor killings, which is why they allow men to not face jail time if they marry
their rape victim. Qatar still allows slavery, homosexuality is illegal in every
Islamic country mostly under the pain of death if found out.They are
not ready to deal with our nations in a productive manner.
When did the Mormons fly airplanes in to buildings?
Mormon comparisons are a waste of time. It's 2017, we vet immigrants to
enter the US, and if we can't, then they can't enter, period. If those
countries can't provide info we need to vet them, then we close it down
until they can. We err on the side of caution, not rolling the dice.
Not sure what this article is attempting to do, is it to convince the LDS who
supported Trump that they are wrong? I doubt that will work, in spite of the
obvious comparison.But, it is scary the direction the country is
heading in with Trump as president. We can only hope that America's system
of checks and balances can mitigate the damage Trump will do and people will
wise up enough so he doesn't get another term.At least one
judge has the integrity to fight this by declaring all those with valid visas
legally permitted to stay.
I'm just rolling my eyes reading this. Trump isn't banning muslims.
He's limiting immigration from countries with high extremist Muslim
population, and the mainstream media, which unfortunately the DN has become a
part of, is reporting that he is discriminating Muslims. At least try to be
I did not know that Mormons had a 90 day temporary ban. This is for non
citizens here on visas (that are not green cards --permanent residents) ,
Mormons were citizens.
If it banned all Muslims, I might agree, but it only names seven nations. Just
like Carter did to Iran. It's within the Presidents right.
I'm glad that "My View" can be made of fake news and political
satire. This whole article is based upon emotions and not looking at the facts
at all. First of all, the headline should say "Historical Ban of
Mormons", not Mormon Ban. It makes it look like Mormons want to ban people
the way Mr. Trump wants to ban them. Then intermixing every other line between
two different centuries seems a strange way to make a point. I'm certain
there are phrases in the Old Testament that could apply just as well if you want
to take things out of context. Why not evaluate the issues Mr. Trump is trying
to resolve, such as "illegal immigration" and propose a solution that is
better than his, along with an explanation of why it is better. Journalism is
moving backwards with this type of analysis.
I don't know Trump as a person and won't judge him personally. However
his actions towards people different than himself suggest that Americans need to
speak up and let him know that they expect much more.Where is Trump
on specific groups?Women? Not doing too well so far.Mexicans? Well their President doesn't think too highly.Mormons? Some lip service so far but his attack on whether Mitt Romney was
actually Mormon is scary.Journalists? He is showing some real
discriminatory tones there.Muslims? He seems to be pandering to the
racists on that one. Chinese? Japanese? Intolerance again.Russia? Okay ironically he seems to have great things to say there. Hmmm?Time for people to start writing their Congressmen and Senators. Because
Trump isn't supposed to be in charge. The people are.
One significant difference in 1879 was there was no right-wing radio or
blogosphere excoriating Mormons constantly. If there was, they might not have
survived. The propaganda runs thick these days
Intersting spin on a topic that has no bearing on todays society. Let's
see, peaceful, almost pacifist Mormons coming to America in 1870's vs folks
from terrorist ridden countries who want to kill us. Geez, let's get real
Surely the perfesser can see two important differences:1) Mormons were
coming INTO the USA. Why would we ban Muslims from going to Syria?2) There
is the small matter of a history of violence associated with Muslims. How many
Mormons set off bombs in crowds?Let's compare apples to apples
Since when is this a "Muslim Ban?" As I understand it, it's a
restriction of open immigration from certain countries known to encourage
emigration of nuts to the US for the purpose of killing non-Muslims (ask
Germany, Sweden and the UK how that's going) until we can ensure that
they're not radicalized and intent on killing us. Sounds
reasonable to me.There's a reason I lock my doors at night in
my home. Does this make me mean or unreasonable?
In Elder Robert S. Wood's April 2006 general conference talk, Elder Wood (a
Harvard PhD in Political Science) relates an experience relevant to this
article."I recall that as a graduate student I wrote a critique
of an important political philosopher. It was clear that I disagreed with him.
My professor told me that my paper was good, but not good enough. Before you
launch into your criticism, she said, you must first present the strongest case
for the position you are opposing, one that the philosopher himself could
accept. I redid the paper. I still had important differences with the
philosopher, but I understood him better, and I saw the strengths and virtues,
as well as limitations, of his belief."Had Dr. Reeve followed
Elder Wood's example, he might not have mischaracterized President
Trump's vetting of immigrants with the misleading and needlessly
inflammatory term "Muslim ban."
I am curious what the 19th century Mormon parallels were to 9/11, Osama Bin
Laden, the Boston Marathon Bombing, San Bernardino, just to name a few. What is
the Mormon equivalent of violent jihad? Of ISIL?Dr. Reeve, for all
of his fancy academic credentials, has completely missed the point, starting
with the very headline calling vetting a "Muslim ban," which it clearly
is not.Deseret News readers deserve better.
"Muslim ban looks like Mormon ban"I was thinking exactly the
same. Those pesky Mormons should be banned. They sing their praises as they blow
up buildings. They behead those of different faiths. They terrorize
non-believers. And, they refuse to assimilate and kill others who refuse to
believe.Oh wait..... That's not the Mormons........
"In 1841, the Nauvoo City Council drafted a provision on religious liberty
which included “Mohammedans” among those granted “free
toleration and equal privileges” in the Mormon city." True. And,
religious discrimination is a bad thing. But, there are two sides to the
story. Back in Joseph Smith's day, "Mohammedans" were not in the
practice of bombings, shootings, and driving trucks into crowds of innocent
people. Nor are most Mohammedans (Muslims) in that practice today. But while
most Muslims are not terrorists, almost all terrorism that might affect
Americans or other Westerners today is committed by Muslims. We need to balance
tolerance of others' faith, with keeping our citizens safe. I don't
claim to know where that balance is, or how to do it. But we must acknowledge
the problem before we can solve it.
Mormons don't or never did practice the belief in honor killings, the death
penalty for apostates and adulterers, or the amputation of the limbs of thieves
much like it is in many Islamic dominated countries which doesn't make
these long held religious beliefs acceptable in our modern society. Mormons had
to give up their fundamental practice of polygamy in order to become part of the
Thank you!With all that the church has stated and counseled us concerning
immigrants and refugees, we, of all people, should be taking a stand against
this! Everyone of us should be contacting our congress members and urging them
to fight this. Especially in Utah, which as a state, so often represents the
church whether intentionally or not.
This is not a "Muslim ban" but rather a ban on people whose backgrounds
cannot be adequately checked. Most happen to be from predominantly Muslim
countries. But, terrorist attacking the west, including the U.S. also are
mostly from Muslim countries.If a thousand men are walking down the
street, freshly released from prison, rational people would not invite them all
into their homes to spend the night with their family. You might consider doing
so for thieves or non-violent criminals but choose not to invite in the rapists
and murderers. Of course, you have to check backgrounds to do that.Lack of enforcement of our borders to keep out economic intruders is bad
enough, but failure to prudently screen against those who wish to kill us is
totally unacceptable.There is no delicate way to do this without
offending someone, so let's get on with screening those we can to admit
those we wish to have among us, and to reject anyone we cannot adequately
clear.Too many attacks have already taken place because we have not
screened thoroughly enough. No more!
Oh, stop it. What a blatant, yet inapplicable, appeal. Times are
different and it's a much more global, dangerous world out there. I hope
Trump is simply buying time to set up a real vetting process for immigrants to
ensure the safety of our own fellow citizens throughout the country. It is our right to live in safety. And, it's our obligation to maintain
it for ourselves and others around us.
Major disconnect here. The backlash against mormons was that ALL mormons
believed in, and practiced polygamy. The muslim ban is based on the mistaken
belief that ALL muslims are terrorists. Not a close comparison.