Allowing a sports program access to a coalition of schools and its money is NOT
a religious freedom issue.
@brucec --""In more than half of all US states, LGBTs can
still be fired, thrown out of their homes, and denied basic services just for
being LGBT." There are *already* laws against those things."There are no such laws in more than half of all US states. That's my
point. And the current NC law actively BANS the passage of any nondiscrimination
laws to protect LGBTs anywhere in the state, even if local governments want to
"In more than half of all US states, LGBTs can still be fired, thrown out of
their homes, and denied basic services just for being LGBT." There are
*already* laws against those things.
@UtahBruin"I am not sure what is wrong with asking people to use the
restroom indicative of what gender they were born. Explain to me what is
"Odious" about that? "Well you're asking a
transgender person (particularly those who sufficiently looks like the gender
they transitioned to that people assume they are that) to either break the law
to use the bathroom that matches the gender they look like or to follow the law
and have people thinking they're breaking the law.
@UtahBruin --"I am not sure what is wrong with asking people to
use the restroom indicative of what gender they were born."First, the NC law is about much more than bathroom choice. For one thing, it
actively forbids any LGBT nondiscrimination laws anywhere in the state.Second, here's one problem with the bathroom-matching-
your-birth-certificate provision:It actually REQUIRES hairy,
muscular trans men to use the women's bathroom. Go look at
pictures of Aydian Dowling, Buck Angel, and Loren Cameron. These are trans men.
They have beards, they have large muscles, they have body hair.Do
you really want to see them in the women's restroom?Likewise,
NC's law REQUIRES feminine, long-haired, dress-wearing women to use the
men's bathroom.Go look at pictures of Laverne Cox, Yasmine
Petty, and Andreja Pejic.Do you really want to see them in the
@brucec --"What is the definition of oppression?"In more than half of all US states, LGBTs can still be fired, thrown out of
their homes, and denied basic services just for being LGBT.THAT is
oppression. And we haven't even gotten to the questions of anything like SS
marriages or school honor codes yet.
@Contrarius ...and about this analogy of where the beginning and ending of
tolerance and oppression cross-sect: when does tolerance "begin" when a
young woman desires gender privacy in a public locker room. Who is the
oppressor—or the "odious" one in this very real scenario that HB2
considered? Tell us, where does common sense begin and end?"Common sense is not so common." —Voltaire.My
assumption is your position is that everyone do and agree with what I say, or I
@Contrarius What is the definition of oppression? Folks who don't agree
with another group is oppressing? HB2 (if anyone would actually read it)
mentions a whole lot more common sense standard including public showers etc. Is
it oppression if one can't choose which shower to use?
@BJMooseI am not sure what is wrong with asking people to use the
restroom indicative of what gender they were born. Explain to me what is
"Odious" about that? You suggest that by using the term "Odious"
that this law is abominable, repulsive, nauseating, monstrous, etc. Really? Not
being able to use the bathroom of your choice is nauseating, really?The NCAA fell to the bigotry of the LGBT community and PC standards and this
makes you proud?There is nothing bigoted about this law at all.
Simply use the bathroom with which the gender is indicated on your birth
certificate.So I am confused, you're in support of the bigotry
of the LGBT community, and yet refer to the law makers of North Carolina as
bigots.Bigot Definition - A person who is intolerant towards those
holding different opinions. A person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other
people, ideas, etc. A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a
particular group.I wish more people understood the definition of the
word bigot. Nobody said gays or transgender can't use a bathroom. Just use
the one with which your birth certificate indicates your born gender.
Oh, our worries...will not get our conference affiliation, our cake, our status
(whatever that is) because of our religion, sexual preference, or anything else
you want pick? Such first world problems...On the other hand, we
could be living in areas of the Middle East, central Africa, or North Korea,
wondering if/when we might lose our liberty or our lives over the very same
things...Maybe we could put this all into perspective...
@Counter Intelligence --"LGBT fundamentalists are more
intolerant than those they claim to despise"Yeah, no.There should be no tolerance for oppression.Tolerance begins when
Tomahawk Red - San Francisco, CA "He's an angry, bitter, jealous
BYU fan who gets angrier and angrier ...................""Yet here you are, A Utah fan, on a story about a school you claim to not care
about, accusing other of being bitter and angry.The fact that you
don't see the irony pretty much sums up the entire "I am tolerant
because I hate for all the fashionable reasons" mentality which BYU
supporters are rejecting.As a homosexual, I get tired of the hate
performed in my name also. LGBT fundamentalists are more intolerant
than those they claim to despise,
@Bobster - Boise, IDSept. 15, 2016 12:29 a.m."LGBTQ has
nothing to do with fairness and everything to do with power and control."Again Bobster, that is way too broad a brush. Change that to "With
some in the LGBTQ community this has nothing to do with..."
@Captain L - Provo, UTSept. 14, 2016 6:24 p.m.People need to
decide who's side they are on in regards to this issue. Gods side or mans /
the ways of the world. God has always maintained the same position on this
subject and it won't change, those who want everyone to change their views
and be tolerant and loving of others do so and say so without regard to what God
says about the issue. BYU which is owned and run by the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter day Saints will always side with the Lord and his position. Who's
side are you all on ??" -----------You were almost there.
God does want us to be tolerant and loving of others no matter who they are or
what they do. This does not mean we have to be tolerant of their behavior.
Hate the sin, love the sinner.
@lets be mature - Meridian/USA, IDSept. 14, 2016 5:15 p.m."This situation needs more love. If you find yourself hating the people on
the other side of the fence, you are wrong, no matter what side you are
on."Amen. Why don't we all start with ourselves.
@The Caravan Moves On - Enid, OKSept. 14, 2016 4:29 p.m."The NCAA is bowing to the PC police, just like the Boy Scouts of America
did, and shows their own lack of character."Bringing up the Boy
Scouts of America is a great example. When the BSA changed their rules
concerning homosexual leaders as well as boys, most people including most church
members felt that was the end of the LDS' affiliation with BSA. However
the BSA and LDS church found some middle ground that is legally defensible that
allowed the LDS church to continue to support and be affiliated with BSA and not
compromise it's principles.People, let's stop hating and
agree that people have different beliefs, but can still coexist in love and
@RockOn - Spanish Fork, UTSept. 14, 2016 1:05 p.m."Cowardly presidents will use the NCAA ruling on North Carolina to
discriminate against BYU using religiously bigotry and getting PC cover as its
excuse. MERITS no longer matter."Whoa! Hold on there slim. The
Big 12 or it's Presidents have made no comments against BYU and it's
position. Let's let them have the chance to decide. BYU's only
statement has been that it would not change the principles of the honor code
just for inclusion. The Big 12 may ask them to clarify their inclusive position
so as to be better understood by others, but they will not ask them to change
the principles as they are in line with the churches beliefs. This
is NOT religious bigotry. It is a business decision. This is just sports.
@Tomahawk Red - San Francisco, CASept. 14, 2016 12:07 p.m."BYU fans rant and rave about religious freedom and in the same breath
rail against freedom for others to associate only with entities they align
with."-------Very Broad brush you paint with. Try
"Some BYU fans". BYU has the right to the honor code. The Big 12 has a
right to not invite them because of it. --------"Wonder
how they'd feel if a major LGBTQ group marched up to the BYU president and
demanded to represent 1/12th of the school, with full voting power.I'll tell you what would happen. An angry mob of BYU students would run
them out of town."Well, if any group marched on BYU, it would
draw interest, but not violence. It would draw the attention of the police who
would inform the group that if they did not have a permit, would be trespassing
and the law would be followed. As to individuals that wanted to come on campus,
it is open to all who obey the law and do not damage or disrespect the
institution.As to the angry mob running them out of town, we
couldn't run against Utah's defense, what makes you think our skills
@Frozen Fractals - Salt Lake City, UTSept. 14, 2016 12:06 p.m."It's not religion they're taking issue with, it's actions
and policies."---------What you fail to realize is
that action and policy, or commandment, IS religion. Faith without works is
dead as the bible said. If the LDS church and it's followers believe
something, why would they not act on that belief.We believe that
marriage is between a man and a woman. That's all. No more to follow.We believe that it is not a sin to have same gender attraction.We do believe that any sexual relations outside the confines of marriage (see
above) is a sin. God will not look upon sin with the least degree of
allowance, as the bible says.We believe to love the sinner and hate
the sin. (And we are all sinners.)We believe in the agency for
individuals to choose for themselves how they will act.We also
believe that there are always consequences to your actions, good for good and
bad for bad.These are simple doctrines that have existed from the
beginning of time. The storms may blow, but we will stand on our Rock!
@Vanceone - Provo, UTSept. 14, 2016 11:39 a.m."Disagreeing
with the LGBT agenda is the right thing to do. The LGBT is in the process of
criminalizing "dissent", and it is right to fight that."We need to be cautious in this discussion to not lump everyone of a certain
believe or opinion as being behind the actions of all with that opinion. I
would change the above to state that "disagreeing with the agenda of some
individuals and groups in the LGBT community..." and "Some individuals
and groups in the LGBT community are in the process..."All
Christians are not the same. All Ute fans are not the same. All BYU fans are
not the same. All individuals and groups in the LGBT community are also not the
same. Careful not to use a broad brush.
"The reputation of the church and the University continue to decline with
national exposure to our values and beliefs." So the solution is to abandon
sports programs at BYU to save the reputation of the church and the university?
The whole point of the church and the school, in my opinion, is to expose any
and all to our values and beliefs. Politically correct does not mean actually
correct. The whole LGBTQ thing is not about sports, getting in the BigXII or
changing BYU's honor code. This is about religious freedom in America that
supposedly is protected by the US Constitution. If BYU's failure to get
into the BigXII is based upon religious belief then all other believers (mostly
Christians) better sit up and take notice; you are next. LGBTQ has nothing to
do with fairness and everything to do with power and control.
The NCAA should stay out of politics. Their job is to facilitate athletic
competition between member Universities and colleges. They have no business in
politics. I 100% support BYU in this.
Problem with LGBT’s argument is that BYU treats sexual relationships
outside of wedlock the same (heterosexual and homosexual)—both practices
are discouraged. Has our nation gotten to a point that an opposing
view must be ‘boycotted’? Calling for diversity and then trying to
exclude people that think differently seems hypocritical and intolerant.
@COUGARSTRONG The BYU sports program dissolved? What, as a token sacrifice to
leftism? You don't think the very same forces would come after BYU's
academic accreditation unless, as Tomohawk so eloquently stated, "Adhere to
mainstream thinking civil decency"? Not exactly a profile of courage.
@tomohawk red: "Adhere to mainstream thinking civil decency (as defined by
who exactly?) -- or continue to operate in isolation." Awfully Joe Stalin of
you. Walk on four legs, not on two, or else. Perhaps some re-education camps for
all of the unwashed on what civil decency is. Power to the proletariat!
Tolstoy has it right, as if Levin would disagree with Tolstoy! (Anna Karenina
reference, FYI)NC HB2 is the evil twin of the "Utah
Compromise" that saw the LGBT protections of SLC and expanded that to the
whole state, with protections for religious institutions. If the NCAA were
consistent on their views, they would have to seriously consider moving those
postseason tournaments to Utah, which has tried to do right by all parties.
You can "stick to your guns", as some have foolishly advocated in this
thread, or you can adapt to 21st century America. People need to
decide who's side they are on in regards to this issue. Gods side or mans
/ the ways of the world. God has always maintained the same position on this
subject and it won't change, those who want everyone to change their views
and be tolerant and loving of others do so and say so without regard to what
God says about the issue. BYU which is owned and run by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints will always side with the Lord and his position.
Who's side are you all on ?? If sticking to your guns means
siding with God then count me in on sticking to my guns.
No matter how much you try to make this about bathrooms the NC law goes far
beyond the bathroom doors and bars any local laws that extend any protections
for LGBT people.
This situation needs more love. If you find yourself hating the people on the
other side of the fence, you are wrong, no matter what side you are on.
Couple of comments:1 - I used to think BYU still had a shot at being
invited into the Big 12 after the pro-gay crowd issued their letter. Not
anymore. The NCAA caved in, totally, and I don't believe the Big 12 will
stand up to the NCAA on this issue....it's like a child standing up to
their parent, but in this case, the child is nowhere near as powerful as the
child. Calling it now: the BYU will be excluded from the Big 12. It stinks,
and certainly shouldn't be that way, but I am confident now it will.2 - The bigger, and more important issue, is religious freedom. Will
individuals be able to live their lives in accordance with their conscience or
not? Right now the pro-gay crowd are attacking institutions (BYU), state laws
dealing with homosexuality (almost everywhere) and even financially hampering
some individuals (cake makers, wedding photographers, pizza shop owners, etc)
but how long will it be before individuals are literally put into jail on
trumped-up charges of being 'dangerous' to society simply because they
don't believe homosexuality activity is immoral?Look around; we
are moving in that direction.
The NCAA is bowing to the PC police, just like the Boy Scouts of America did,
and shows their own lack of character.However, The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints, and therefore BYU, will "never" change
their honor code concerning homosexual behavior.No, never. And I applaud the LDS church and BYU for that. They know what is right
and what is wrong and they are sticking to their guns. If it comes down to, for
some reason, eventually being forced to end every single athletic program in the
entire university, they will. They won't budge an inch on this issue, and
with good reason.To the pro-gay side: Why do you try to punish the
LDS church? Because of Prop 8? Then why are you not punishing your own fellow
Californians who voted FOR Prop 8? This is an entirely valid question.It is absolutely amazing to me that people are so confused on this issue.
Signs of the times.
And now there's news that the ACC has followed suit and also pulled out of
NC.@ABQer --"only 11% to 27% of cases were both of
the twins homosexual"Not true.Bailey and Pillard
(1991): A genetic study of male sexual orientation. Archives of General
Psychiatry.-- "We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay
men also were gay, compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11
percent of genetically unrelated brothers, which is exactly the kind of pattern
you would want to see if something genetic were going on." Bailey and Pillard (1993): Familial aggregation of female sexual orientation.
American Journal of Psychiatry.48% of identical twins of homosexual women
were likewise homosexual (lesbian), compared with 16% of fraternal twins and 6%
of adoptive sisters.Also:Quarterly Review of Biology,
2012 -- Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual
Development. -- "Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality
has substantial heritability in both sexes".Sander et all
(2015): Genome-wide scan demonstrates significant linkage for male sexual
orientation. Psychological Medicine.
Finally the N C A A does something that I approve of. This was the correct
decision and I applaud them for standing up to those who voted in and continue
to support this odious law. I was also very happy to read today that the AAC
(American Athletic Conference) who BYU played many members of in football the
last few years including Memphis State, Cincinnati and ECU announced that all
neutral site playoff games will be removed from North Carolina including this
years AAC football championship that was slated for Charlotte on December 3rd.
Again kudos to an organization for standing up for what is right and saying no
more to bigotry and discrimination.
Goodness, our country is a messed-up place right now.The problem is
that everyone wants to just point the finger at everyone else. Just look at the
comments. Instead, we should in the mirror and try to be part of the solution
instead of adding to the problem.As a country, we are divided as
we've ever been. We talk the talk when it comes to being the greatest
country in the world but do we walk the walk? Right now, I don't think we
do. We certainly aren't what we claim to be.If the Big 12
invites BYU then great, I will enjoy seeing them compete at that level. If the
Big 12 says no because BYU doesn't have the same values as the conference
then so be it. BYU is not going to change it's stance because the LDS
Church isn't going to change it's stance. I think BYU fans are fine
with that. I support BYU because it is the school that represents my values,
not because it has a good athletics program.
The bigger issue, that is hopefully not on the horizon, is when will
corporations and other universities' graduate schools threaten to stop
hiring and accepting BYU graduates unless BYU "modifies" (read
"eliminates") its Honor Code. I can see this way down the road.
Hopefully, we can get off this road before its too late.
It's funny that when the NCAA issued their ruling against using Native
American mascots, BYU fans found it amusing that the University of Utah was
under pressure to change.Now that the shoe is on the other foot,
it's a sign of the Apocalypse.Expat 1961 from Norway has this
nailed - if BYU simply stops discriminating against LGBT students, they'll
be able bypass the scrutiny. Disallow all public displays of affection of a
sexual nature on campus - and enforce it uniformly - and move toward building
individual restrooms, and the problems dissipate.
but seriously...m"I say stick to your guns BYU, otherwise you
follow the path of liberalism and money like another Utah school did a few years
ago.In the end right will win out and liberal schools, including one in
our once great state, and the LGBT radicals will lose the battle."Are you referring to the acceptance of funds recently by University from the
the church? Or maybe just the building bearing Thomas Monson's name?Given the statement, how do you feel about the church supporting the U.?
Did anyone else find it ironic that one institution (NCAA) that has hard and
fast rules on crossing gender categories (men competing in women's sports,
for example) is unhappy with another institution (NC) that made a hard and fast
rule on crossing gender categories?
The most irritating thing about this is the discussion keeps being Boulder down
into an issue that isn't the main problem. Target is solving the problem
by providing uni-sex family bathrooms that also avoids the issue of parents
bringing their little kids into a bathroom of the other sex.The REAL
issue is the other parts of the bill... Which no one is talking about
Did anyone else find it ironic that an institution (NCAA) that has hard and fast
rules on crossing gender classifications (men playing in women sports for
example) is mad at another institution (NC) for setting a hard and fast rule on
crossing gender classifications?
Woodworker.."I agree that we are almost all born with a strong physical
attraction to others. But that passion, like any of our passions, needs to held
within proper bounds"I wouldn't disagree but according to
the BYU honor code and the principles of the Mormon church that proper time for
same sex attracted folks is never.They are required to deny
expression of a most fundamental part of themselves. They are required to view
themselves as flawed because they were born with a sinful attraction. Sexual attraction is very different from anger, depression, or other emotional
characteristics. Sexual attraction is a fundamental part of humanity.Would you allow someone to tell you that you are flawed because you were born
a female (making the sex up)? Of course not. Therefore telling someone we know
you were born this way but it is wrong so just don't express is is
I found it ironic that someone is quoting Isa. 5:20! That same citation could
be used in support of LGBT rights by those "Christians" who profess
intolerance. For those who are so upset at the President, remember
that he has to be President of all the people, not just those you want to be a
associating with! For those who think political correctness has gone too far,
let me suggest that be kind, caring, non judgmental and accommodating to all is
not being "politically correct." It's being a good humans being
and for many a good Christian.Rock is correct. The North Carolina
decision will be felt in Provo. The Big12 president meeting in just a few weeks
will not want to extend an invite to a school that may earn for them even more
bad PR. After all they already have enough with Baylor.
Cowardly presidents will use the NCAA ruling on North Carolina to discriminate
against BYU using religiously bigotry and getting PC cover as its excuse. MERITS
no longer matter.
@ Tomahawk Red"Your choice is simple. Adhere to mainstream
thinking civil decency -- or continue to operate in isolation."While it's refreshing to finally see a social liberal who openly admits
that the LGBTQ movement is demanding adherence to the new morality for inclusion
in society, it makes it no less disgusting. The LGBTQ movement has worked for
years to point out the injustices and mistreatment that gays have faced for
years. It is regrettable the mistreatment that individuals have received. The
misunderstanding and outright persecution. Regrettable. Finally through their
efforts we've learned to understand that people who are different from us
should be accepted. We've learned that all people and opinions should be
welcome at the table - disagreements can exist without mistreatment. However,
now that they've gained mainstream acceptance the movement is now pushing
for a "comply-or-die" outcome. Acceptance is no longer the goal. Now we
must shun and forcibly remove anyone who thinks differently. Did this just go
full circle? Is this not hypocrisy at its finest?
@SoonerUte, I think you are right. So we come to what this is really about. It
is about money and corruption. BYU will stand firm. I will stand will them. I
hope you will, too. Let the world live by its corrupt politics if it
comes to that. I don't think the LGBT community is stronger than NCAA
sports, however, if sports loving individuals want to stand up against this
vocal minority. Stand up for what is right all who believe in true civil rights
and freedoms. Stand up for America as it was founded not as it is being
corrupted to become. God bless!
Bluto - Sandy, UTSept. 14, 2016 7:35 a.m.It is high time for
States (North Carolina) and Private Schools (BYU, Catholic & Protestant
Colleges) to file a "Class Action Lawsuit" (Using the Sherman Anti-Trust
laws) against the NCAA, NBA and anyone else who seeks to boycott and impose
restrictions of trade on all entities...--------Good
luck with that buddy.LOOOOL!!!Such an effort would be
pulverized so hard, so fast.What you dont understand is most
Americans are pro-civil rights. That is to say, your errant belief that
you'd find a ton of support for advocating the continued suppression of the
LGBT community is laughable.YOU are in the minority here, friend.So save your "we're letting the inmates run the prison"
outrage for fiction day at the library.Your choice is simple. Adhere
to mainstream thinking civil decency -- or continue to operate in isolation. Or
kill your athletics program.You can "stick to your guns", as
some have foolishly advocated in this thread, or you can adapt to 21st century
America. You're more than welcome to stick to your guns. But
you won't be doing so in the Big 12 conference.
@ Bluto, who wrote that: And you advocating "discrimination" against
religious institutions, by restricting free trade, with the intent to damage
them economically, is against the law. Lawyer up, the push back cometh.***Please file that lawsuit. I can't wait to see how
many resources you can waste on a cause of action that will go absolutely
nowhere. I even think there is a law firm that will take your case - Kirton
& McConkie in SLC. That's right, the same law firm that threatened
that Mormons would be forced to perform same-sex weddings inside the temples if
gay marriage ever became legal. Tell me again - how many of gay weddings have
been performed in temples? Please contact their offices right away and get
started on your case.
Transgender bathroom issue will largely be solved in a few years as companies,
organizations and governments convert existing facilities to fully private
restrooms and fully private shower stalls.But, the culture wars will
continue. There will be a new set of "victims" of white male
religiously-motivated groups with a new set of grievances.
Ohio-LDS - NE, OHSept. 14, 2016 7:35 a.m.Don’t the NCAA,
BIG 12, and NBA have the same right as BYU, the LDS Church, and Hobby Lobby to
set their boundaries? There is a lot of hypocrisy going on here.---------Oh how refreshing that post is.BYU fans rant
and rave about religious freedom and in the same breath rail against freedom for
others to associate only with entities they align with.Wonder how
they'd feel if a major LGBTQ group marched up to the BYU president and
demanded to represent 1/12th of the school, with full voting power.I'll tell you what would happen. An angry mob of BYU students would run
them out of town.
@Bluto"What students at Iowa St. and now K-State fail to realize is
that the first amendment also protects faith and religion."It's not religion they're taking issue with, it's actions and
policies. @Ghost Writer"then I am no better than the worst
Jim Crow racist and need to be publicly condemned and shunned?"Well the closest historical analogue we have to opposition to same-sex
marriage is opposition to interracial marriage. What's the view on those
who oppose interracial marriage these days? That's probably a good estimate
to how opposition to same-sex marriage will be viewed in 30 years.@bamafone"First of all LGBT is just too big of a mouthful to say.
"That's what the abbreviation is there for. @Vanceone"would instead lead to the elimination of female
competitors "There really isn't much of a line at all of
people trying to get into women's sports as someone who is transgender."men in dresses teams. And the left says you are bigoted and
hateful"I suspect that'd probably happen less often if
transgender women weren't referred to as "men in dresses".
I think the theory is a bit of an hysterical overreaction.
Brad Rock is making a stretch to generate traffic on this website - well played
Mr Rock - well played.
This whole BYU thing is ridiculous. What is discrimination? To intentionally
deny rights to or apply penalties to a specific individual or group of
individuals based on something about them - particularly things that they
can't select (race, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc.). Does BYU's
Honor Code discriminate? No. All individuals are held to the same standard. No
sexual relations outside of legal, heterosexual marriage. No romantic actions
between members of the same sex. The rule applies to all. It targets specific
behaviors - which granted are typically palatable only to the LGBTQ community -
but targets the behavior, not the individual. The individuals are welcome
subject to the conditions. Iowa State's Student Senate passed a
discriminatory document. It did not instruct the Big XII to avoid all religious
schools, or all schools that prohibit homosexual behavior. It instructed the Big
XII to exclude BYU. A single institution/group of individuals. I think freedom
of religion allows for private institutions and individuals to be discriminating
about behaviors they will accept and condone. However, we should all accept and
tolerate all individuals.
I know cougar nation will have a hard time if BYU has to dissolve its athletic
program in Provo, but BYU Hawaii and Idaho have already moved away from
collegiate sports and have protected the church and universities from unfair and
unnecessary ridicule, scrutiny and criticism. I would welcome the dissolution of
athletics at BYU if it represents a stand for our principles and values. Society
is rapidly changing and the positions of the University and the church are now
minority positions. We will never change the NCAA, liberal or societal opinions
on LGBT rights but we will continue to bring negative exposure to the University
and the church if we engage in petty, ideological battles in the name of sports.
I think the sooner BYU transitions its focus, money and resources away from
athletics and into academic ambitions, the better the University and church will
be. The reputation of the church and the University continue to decline with
national exposure to our values and beliefs.
Consider the fatal LGBT flaw: that opposition to them is somehow bigotry to be
stamped out by law. Look at their defenders: because, they say, BYU is opposed
to them being allowed to do whatever they want, that is unacceptable and by
operation of law it must be forbidden.That is their central
argument: that disagreeing with them is somehow "denying" them their
so-called rights. They argue that when the LDS or any other church says that
homosexuality is a sin, that such statements are impermissible legislation of
morality. It's not legislation; it's just expressing their opinion.
(of course, the left wants to remove the ability of churches to speak at all,
saying that freedom of speech doesn't belong to an organization).Disagreeing with the LGBT agenda is the right thing to do. It is the moral
thing to do. Too many of us forget that. Homosexuality is a wrong practice that
deserves condemnation, and we must stand up for that. It is not
"legislating" or "theocracy" to forthrightly condemn homosexual
behavior as wrong and dangerous. The LGBT is in the process of criminalizing
"dissent", and it is right to fight that.
@pragmastistferlifeI agree that we are almost all born with a strong
physical attraction to others. But that passion, like any of our passions,
needs to held within proper bounds. It would not be "pragmatic" to
allow angry people to be violent, or for greed to rule in business. All our
powers and passions need to be bridled. Here's an example. At the beginning
of a school year I would ask my new 5th graders, " How many of you would
like to have a class without any rules?" Almost all the hands would
enthusiastically be raised; happy, eager faces nodded yes! I then said to
them,"Good. I like having no rules, because I'm the biggest and
strongest person in this room, and now I can do anything I want to you!"
Suddenly, their faces clouded over as the consequences of "NO RULES!"
dawned upon them. Then I posed a different question. "How many of you want
to have rules in our classroom?" All hands were quickly raised! 2)
Good for you, North Carolina! Hold fast to fairness for all. 3) NCAA. Please
rethink your position. Fairness will win the day; not being an unconstitutional
bully. 4) Go Cougs!
@ Lets Be Mature. "This mindset of "if you don't believe how we do
we'll ban you" has to end. "Agree. People have been
saying this to BYU for years.
"Then there are plenty of other great Universities around the globe you can
attend that will allow you everything you want."Okay, if we precede
that statement with "if you aren't a white anglosaxon
Protestant..." Is that okay? Is it okay to discriminate because you
don't feel the same way as society?
ABQer,"Since identical twins are 100% genetically the same, if
homosexuality is genetic, as many people claim, that number should be around
95-100%."You're incorrect. There are several limitations in
twin studies.Some limitations:Results from twin studies
cannot be directly generalized to the general population. Twins are
not a random sample of the general population as they differ in their
developmental environment because two fetuses are growing simultaneously. A classic example displaying the fallacy in your logic is regarding
schizophrenia in Twins. There isn't space to explain it, but
using your logic, schizophrenia, heart disease, stroke aren't conditions
related to genetics. This would be false.
President Hinckley was right byu-p should do away with their athletic program.
Red states will be just fine, the Great Plains of this country believe in the
Bible. Community and unity will always win. Law suit culture can't last
long. No more NBA for me. Boring dull 3 month winter sport goes too long
anyway. Where is Frank and Scott Layden's opinion on this? Religion
comes before politics.
When will the NBA and NCAA pull out of states that take away rights of the
polygamy crowd? They need to have their voice heard too.
Just Truth "how so many are willing to speak for the Big12 or NCAA as if it
is a foregone conclusion?"Its not a foregone conclusion, but in any
business deal you should examine the risk.For the Big 12, expansion
is about money. The Big 12 is considering BYU for its potential to make money
for the Big 12. Due to recent unpleasantness, they have to consider the
possibility that a future BYU will no longer make money due to boycotts or loss
of NCAA membership.What then? Does the Big 12 cut ties with BYU
when they are no longer financially useful? Or is it better to avoid the risk
in the first place? There are equally good options that don't carry
BYU's risk."there is no reason the Big12 can’t send
special interest groups packing"They could, but sending people packing
costs money. The Big 12 is in business to make money.
Why is Rock stirring the pot? Isn't it enough to have college students at
other BIG 12 schools who either know absolutely NOTHING about BYU or have never
been to the campus make assumptions, now we have to have Mr. Rock with his
suppositions? Give it a rest and see what happens at the BIG 12 discussions,
please. Save the inflammatory articles for a later time.
When I was little the neighborhood kids built a fort in a tree. Soon everyone
gathered to play in our new treehouse. But then someone thought of making a
club - you know to exclude the undesirables in the neighborhood. I had helped
build the fort but suddenly found myself on the outside. Bummer. Did everyone need to be let in? I have no idea, I just know I did not like
it. So I grabbed the other kids and we built a better tree house in a different
tree. I want into the Big 12 to see BYU play good football. I want
to play in that treehouse and I think we should update what needs to be updated.
But if they don't want us, then we build a better treehouse. And enjoy
what we have.
Southern Transplant.."But, they believe that homosexual attraction should
not be expressed. Just like they believe that heterosexual attraction should not
be fully expressed until after marriage."Therein lies the
difference how can you say they accept same sex attraction as natural when they
specifically deny any expression of that attraction. Do you think
they would allow two men to walk hand in hand and then embrace and kiss as they
parted, yet that is absolutely allowed between men and women. Manzanita.."The Shakers believe in celibacy as a religious principle.
Please explain for us readers, why don't you lobby on behalf of the Shakers
to make sexual relationships of any kind illegal?"No one is
lobbying to make you accept someone's beliefs. Sexual attraction is not a
belief, it's who you are, like male, female, white, black, diabetic, short,
tall, etc. Sexual attraction is biological and is as complicated as any other
biological process, but you are born with it, you don't acquire it as a
belief. So just as you don't get to oppose someone for being diabetic, you
don't get to deny same sex attracted people their humanness.
There have been 8 studies on identical twins in Scandinavia, the United States,
and Australia; and in those studies they found that in only 11% to 27% of cases
were both of the twins homosexual. Since identical twins are 100% genetically
the same, if homosexuality is genetic, as many people claim, that number should
be around 95-100%. These are well funded studies in countries that are more
open to homosexuality. The conclusion one can make from this is that people
become homosexual because of external factors. If that is the case then I think
a lot of tensions in our society would be resolved if we simply started treating
homosexuality as a religion and give them all the same rights as a religious
institution --nothing more, nothing less.
David - Centerville, UTIt's too bad we can't just enjoy
sports without worrying about sexual identity, gay rights, and bathrooms.------Sorry to inconvenience you, just like at one point
blacks weren't allowed to use the same bathroom as whites with
"seperate but equal" laws.The honor code will have to change
to match American values.
Proving once again that gay activist who use to only wanted to be accepted for
being gay, now demand that you support them or else you should be punished and
castigated for your freedom on religion.
I say stick to your guns BYU, otherwise you follow the path of liberalism and
money like another Utah school did a few years ago.In the end right will
win out and liberal schools, including one in our once great state, and the LGBT
radicals will lose the battle.
To TyGuy1981:I really hate to disappoint you friend but most BYU
supporters could care less about being part of the BIG-12 if it means giving up
our religious freedoms! There is much more at stake here - we do
not want to be part of a "communistic type" society where the state
forces everyone to believe and think a certain way. We want and we
will fight as we always have for freedom of choice and freedom of conscience.
How hard is it for you to understand that millions have died on the
battle field to preserve our precious freedoms of conscience, choice, religion?
How sad that you cannot see that restricting the rights and freedoms of one
group will only diminish your own rights in the big picture. If you
want more consideration for your LGBT concerns then promote a fairness to all
approach that can and will result in benefits for all groups - but that will
take hard work and deep thought - and I believe you are capable of that if you
want it badly enough.
This is the same situation that happened in the late 70s. Then the NCAA was not
pleased with BYUs policy relating to African Americans. We all know what
happened with that.Can we expect the same if $$ flow is threatened?
Brad's definition of "periphery" and mine (as well as
Webster's dictionary) are quite different.
BYU will voluntarily leave the NCAA in the next 5 years -- that is my
prediction. Good riddance NCAA. This PC , corrupt organization has ruined
As well BYU should not be allowed from the Big 12 for policies which are not in
line with conference standards. It's that simple. If the NCAA feel that
these policies are arcane and malicious, than so be it. Be gone from the NCAA
too. Discrimination has no place in society. When religious beliefs lead to
discrimination, that, so to speak, it where the rubber meets the road. As a
nation we opt for expanding rights, time and time again. Restricting ppls
ability to be free to express themselves without fear of reprisal is an
untenable thought. As religion, marriage, and other so called "social
goods" fall out of favor, so too will the ability of those who steadfastly
cling to them to foist their will upon others.
I understand the argument that the Big12, NCAA sports, and even the world may be
choosing a shift in its values that will leave BYU behind so-to-speak if it does
not conform. The argument is that just as BYU leaves out people other
organizations are well within their rights to leave BYU out. Yes, if they so
choose that path they may. What I don’t understand is how so many are
willing to speak for the Big12 or NCAA as if it is a foregone conclusion. Just
as you are welcome to believe BYU is discriminating against people (even though
they are actually discriminating against behavioral choices they simply do not
and cannot agree with), the Big12 is also welcome to believe you are
discriminating against religious beliefs upheld by the constitution. In other
words, if BYU is abiding by the constitution then there is no reason the Big12,
for example, can’t send special interest groups packing along with their
pressures on everyone else to conform to your beliefs. The question is will you
accept the Big12's decision if they keep playing BYU, don't change who
BYU is, and thereby show they don't actually agree with your
misrepresentation of them?
Just another reason why schools should focus on ACADEMICS and not SPORTS.
My thoughts are a mass of confusion, dismay and concern. The world is changing,
but not nearly as rapidly as America is. Values I believe in are being torn
asunder. I am not included within the LGBT circle and therefore I comment
herein from a point of ignorance. To those who are actual members of the LGBT
community, please enlighten me as to how you are being discriminated against.
And, please, support your concerns. I will do all within my limited power to
help eliminate discrimination, be it marching with you with a sign held high or
calling my political leaders. But being a very conservative, Christian
American, I ask that you avoid what is quickly becoming a strong,
well-organized, emotional-base effort to force me to change/alter the choices I
have made in my life.
Why have many comments blamed someone or something else (Liberal Fascists, etc)
What's the point of agency if you need an "Honor Code"? Pretty
soon BYU will have no options but to just play with themselves or against
themselves. Shirts vs skins if that is allowed.
@BelieveInAmerica - St George, UT"Do what is right, let the
consequences follow. The biggest blessings come only after you have the faith to
do the right thing. Ether 12:6 teaches us this, why do I feel like I have to
remind BYU of this?"Uhmmm, what do you mean that you feel you
need to remind BYU of this? Do you think BYU needs reminding? BYU will never
cave to the pressures of the LGBT community and their demands. They will also
never cave to any demands from the BIG 12 if they come demanding they change in
order to be included. Many here beg BYU not to change and why I don't know.
It is simple, BYU will never change it's policies unless the LDS church
changes it's policies and I don't ever seeing that happening. BYU will
let the sporting programs go if it ever comes down to a change or else
@ meckofahessThe Shakers believe in celibacy as a religious
principle. Please explain for us readers, why don't you lobby on behalf of
the Shakers to make sexual relationships of any kind illegal? Wouldn't we
all be better off if you respected the Shaker's beliefs and helped to make
sure they were codified and imposed on all of society?
@pragmatistferlife, BYU accepts homosexual attraction as a natural human
condition. @Voodohound99 says there are 1800 LGBT students there. BYU and the
LDS church don't deny that reality. But, they believe that homosexual
attraction should not be expressed. Just like they believe that heterosexual
attraction should not be fully expressed until after marriage.BYU
doesn't force anyone to attend their school. Folks are free to apply or
not. And folks know full well going in what is in the honor code. I don't
see why this is a big deal to anyone. Why would the NCAA care if students want
to subject themselves to such an honor code or not? If someone wants to express
homosexual attraction, he/she can go to a different school. No harm, no foul.
1979 I agreed and signed the Honor Code before entering to BYU Private
Institution. I am proud and I know that BYU and The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Days Saints will not alter the Honor Code! Either we get in the Big12 or
any P5 League or stay at Independent, I will be happy!
@ManzanitaAnd you advocating "discrimination" against
religious institutions, by restricting free trade, with the intent to damage
them economically, is against the law.Lawyer up, the push back
A lot of wishful thinking from Rock; however, with Mark Emmert leading the
calvary - Rock my get his wish.
Strange times indeed but this is the new reality. My concerns are beyond the
possible exclusion from the Big 12, the ability for BYU to operate freely
without government pressure is at stake. If religious schools like BYU are
"branded" by PC elite in a negative light what happens to the value of
the BYU degree outside of Utah ? Im praying for our Church leaders during
these strange times.
It's a simple question: why should female athletes be forced to let men who
claim to be women shower with them, use their locker rooms, and even replace
them on the so-called "womens" sports team?Take BYU
women's soccer, which is highly ranked right now. Should BYU be forced to
let men onto their team, thereby removing Ashley Hatch and Elena Maderios and
all the other great players? Because that is what the NCAA is demanding and
threatening to ban BYU for not allowing. Who knew that Title IX,
meant to promote female sports, would instead lead to the elimination of female
competitors and now we have regular mens teams and men in dresses teams. And the
left says you are bigoted and hateful if you think women should be allowed to
compete, because that means the men have to be kept off the women's teams.
Men and women are not equal, leftists. You claim to be "reality
based." In this case, with your push for transgendered sports, it's
clear you are propaganda based, at best.
It's really sad that many in the comments and even the article's
writer have to even question whether or not BYU will put its honor code first or
compromise it for a lucrative Big 12 invite.This shouldn't even
be a second thought. Do what is right, let the consequences follow. The
biggest blessings come only after you have the faith to do the right thing.Ether 12:6 teaches us this, why do I feel like I have to remind BYU of
Without doubt, some of our LGBT citizens, neighbors and friends have felt abused
and treated unfairly at times. We must accept that such abuse and bad treatment
is unjustifiable and we must stand for fair and equal treatment to all citizens.
Such fair and equal treatment must also apply to citizens of religious faith and
their institutions. Certainly, it is no better for LGBT supporters to
discriminate against religious beliefs any more than it is for anyone to
discriminate against LGBT citizens beliefs. Now, there are some practices and
beliefs on both sides that will likely never be fully acceptable to the other
side - that is okay. There is enough common ground and enough room for
reasonable compromise on both sides to address the vast majority of concerns and
find elegant solutions that permit both sides to live their beliefs and
practices. There must be some give-and-take. I am confident that the vast
majority of our LGBT friends and neighbors are willing to work with religious
groups to find fair approaches for all.
First of all LGBT is just too big of a mouthful to say. Second, they want to
steam roll any one in their path, so look out and beware. Third NCAA is also too
much to say and it has become a PC lap dog. Time to dump both and let the play
For one, I applaud North Carolina for not buckling. This PC standard that is
becoming my way of the highway, or rather my way or I will cause you to lose
money has got to go. This so called honored LGBT community who just wants
things to be fair and equal are trying to destroy people by taking away money.
i.e. law suits, pulling NCAA tournaments, closing down bakerys, etc. All
because they don't get their way.BYU’s honor code forbids
“all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual
feelings.” BYU's Honor Code ALSO forbids all forms of
physical intimacy that give expression to those not married. And I don't
hear any of them crying foul and wanting to threaten people with law suits, etc.
They deal with it, and if they happen to cross the line, they deal with it and
the consequences. If you don't like the honor code and can't follow
it. Then there are plenty of other great Universities around the globe you can
attend that will allow you everything you want. I would rather see BYU sports
fall to the wayside than see the church and BYU change for PC reasons.
Is it not true that BYU accepts students who are not mormon as long as they have
a letter from their religious leader? Many religions accept same-sex marriages
and perform them. BYU should therefore accept LGBT students in good standing in
their religion who are part of same-sex marriages, as long as they do not have
extramarital affairs.Does the honor code prohibit public displays of
affection for heterosexuals? If it doesn't, then they shouldn't
prohibit public displays of affection for LGBT individuals. Keep the
requirement to have a letter from your religious leader. Prohibit public
displays of affection for everyone. No more kissing or holding hands in public
on the BYU campus. Allow everyone who is married legally to live together. Treat
everyone equal. It isn't that hard. What would it really hurt?Jesus said love one another. It is a religious school. If you want to forbid
LGBT individuals from having a normal life, close the school to LGBT individuals
and see how fast BYU gets shut out of all sports.
@Ghost Writer - GILBERT, AZ@Ohio-LDS - NE, OHAgain, this is
quite fascinating. So BYU MUST believe as the mainstream society, that is allow
homosexual activity in it's school to be acceptable. If they do not, then
BYU does not deserve to be allowed to participate in college sports? Or at
least be allowed in the Big12?What about abortion? Is that also a
requirement - everyone must support abortion? How about banning anyone that has
any other "traditional" thoughts/beliefs? Why stop with homosexuality?
Once you prevent people/groups from having "access", where
does that stop? Should those people/groups not be allowed to serve in the
military? Or do they no longer deserve tax dollars from the Federal government?
I'm serious about this, where does this stop? Or is it just to stop them
from participating in college football? "Believe as we do or else!"
At the end of the day, what sense does it make for the LGBTQ agenda to promote
intolerance and religious discrimination? LGBTQ folks, please help us readers
understand why it isn't a better policy to strive for fairness for your
cause as well as for conservative causes? LGBTQ citizens, please help us
understand why you wouldn't want us religious conservatives to fight for
your rights of non discrimination in housing, employment, hospital visitation
and such while you also show some deference for our rights to believe as we
choose? LGBTQ folks, please help us understand how practicing religious
discrimination towards us helps us work to end discrimination toward you? Please
explain why working together to find difficult but fair solutions for everyone
is not a good idea?
@PraggyTo Quote Spencer W. Kimball"Today's new
morality is just yesterdays immorality in a new package".
So if I believe that individuals should not define themselves based on their
physical appetites, if I don't believe that a gay marriage and a
heterosexual marriage must absolutely, unconditionally be considered as exactly
the same institution, then I am no better than the worst Jim Crow racist and
need to be publicly condemned and shunned?
The acceptance of same sex attraction as a natural human condition is not
political correctness. It's simply the acceptance of reality.If
as a religion you choose to deny such reality and ban a natural human expression
within the confines of your walls you have that right. However the rest of the
world does not have to accept your actions nor associate with what is viewed as
inhumane. If you view that as punishing you for your beliefs, then
so be it. As the world changes and it certainly always has and
always will, if you continue to resist new truths and label them the evil
distortion of old beliefs you will more and more find yourselves with these
conflicts because you just simply won't fit into the new world.Many of you will take pride in this, that's fine, just don't
complain about being punished at the same time.
This nonsense has gone on long enough!Time to counter punch these PC
radicals.It is high time for States (North Carolina) and Private
Schools (BYU, Catholic & Protestant Colleges) to file a "Class Action
Lawsuit" (Using the Sherman Anti-Trust laws) against the NCAA, NBA and
anyone else who seeks to boycott and impose restrictions of trade on all
entities, including, Universities and States.What students at Iowa
St. and now K-State fail to realize is that the first amendment also protects
faith and religion.The very people who scream for tolerance are
indeed the most intolerant among us.If there is no push back, these anti
religion bullies will only be emboldened and continue on their march to lgbtq
centric madness.I hope the Big 12 will take a stand for religious
freedom. Otherwise, TCU and Baylor are next in line for their assault.
"BYU has the right to set its institutional policies." That’s the
defense given when people take offense at controversial BYU policies such as the
expulsion of students who convert from Mormonism to another faith. The same
explanation is heard for controversial LDS policies, such as denying baptism to
children whose parents are gay, or conservative business policies, such as
denying employees contraceptive coverage. The argument is always presented:
"these groups have the right to set their policies; if you don’t like
the policies then go somewhere else."So why is that readers of
this paper are so incensed when an organization sets policies that lead to our
exclusion? Don’t the NCAA, BIG 12, and NBA have the same right as BYU, the
LDS Church, and Hobby Lobby to set their boundaries? There is a lot of hypocrisy
going on here.
Stick to your guns, BYU! Hopefully they won't come knocking, but it almost
seems inevitable. Sports are just sports, but I know BYU will not
bend on this. I'd rather see them without competitive sports than selling
out to get into the Big 12. And believe me, I would love to see them in the Big
Isaiah prophesied of this very subject when he said, “Woe unto them that
call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for
darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter - (Isa. 5:20.)
It's just the sign of the times my friends. We need to stand up for
what's right. I love and respect all people but I will not
support any group or organization that tries to force me to conform to their
belief system in the name of political correctness and attempt to punish us for
the way we believe and our moral standards. Just because we do not condone LGBT
sexual lifestyle does not mean we, as an organization (In this case BYU), should
be punished. Key word is Sexual lifestyle. I feel sorry for the LGBT
individuals who define themselves based on their "Sexual" tendencies.
Which in my opinion is suppressing to an individual. Is one's whole
identity about sex? Really? I admire and respect the 1800+ great LGBT students
at BYU who faithfully adhere to the honor code. That shows great character. And
that's worth more than their weight in gold.
Liberal intolerance never ceases to amaze me.
NCAA has caved completely to the leftists bullies of politicalcorrectness.
The Obama administration has driven thismindless discrimination against
Christians while virtually ignoring the current slaughter of Christians in the
Middle East by ISSIS. It is not in the NCAA's interest to grovel to please
extremist in the LGBT community. Its relevance and even survival will also be
put into play.
I am one who has grown up a fan of BYU sports, but also realize how very
obnoxious some sports "heroes" can be, even at BYU. The win at any cost
mentality, as well as the huge money investments in sports have largely ruined
it for me, with the BYU programs being my last bastion of hope, that character
and true Christian values might produce a wholesome product, Sports being one
way we might recognize worthwhile goals, great effort, without losing our moral
compass. Jared Ward comes to mind: 6th place in the Olympic
Marathon, worthy husband and father and even a professor of statistics, what a
great example to shine on all of college athletics, what great human effort and
spirit. I made great personal sacrifice to attend the Y, and will always cherish
my days there. "A style of our own" still burns bright to me, and hope
we never lose that willingness to lean into the wind and stand tall on solid
values regardless of what the world may say or do.
The same First Amendment that protects BYU's freedom of religion also
protects others' freedom of association. Fortunately, the NCAA and
hopefully the Big 12 are sending the message that they will not be in league
with those who promote LGBTQ discrimination. BYU as a private religious
institution can preach whatever religious principles it wants to - that is the
essence of religious freedom - but it cannot expect all of society to give those
discriminatory teachings and practices the imprimatur of acceptance and
It is stunning to see how the cultural climate has changed in just the last
decade. Hold strong.
Remember, LGBTs were all about acceptance, love and understanding. When people
said there was tyranny there, they were mocked.And now we see the
truth: It's "Compromise your values or else we destroy you."I think BYU has a clear path here: outright defiance. When the NCAA
LGBT fascists demand that BYU make "gender neutral" sports teams and
locker rooms, where you use whatever facility you want to and belong to whatever
team you want, this will destroy all women's sports. One of the places the
difference between the sexes is most apparent is sporting events
(Australia's national women soccer team regularly loses to high school boys
squads). If BYU just stands its ground and says that no, it will only accept
women on its women's sports teams, the outcry if the NCAA forbids them from
competing will be huge. Of course leftists will demand that the only way we can
be fair is to make sure only transgender "women" are on the women's
team, but most people will not stand for calling a spade a tractor. By the way, did you know Obama is about to order all women's shelters and
refuge places to admit men? Just what abused women need!
How much longer are we going to put up with this PC nonsense from the left?
Thank you Democrats!
Isn't it impressive that the LGBT community has been able to change the
dialogue in a few, short years to one where embracing LGBT values has become the
over riding concern for any person or organization? More important that anything
else that person or organization has ever done or believes in.I say
this as someone who has long accepted LGBT individuals as friends, classmates
Wow! I sure hope that BYU does not alter its Honor Code to be accepted into the
Big 12 or even should the NCAA start applying pressure. Sports have replaced
religion in many people's lives and the over-emphasis of the importance of
football--especially at BYU--is getting tiresome. Stay independent and stick to
your guns if need be! End all the intercollegiate sports programs at BYU should
the NCAA get too meddlesome. Life WILL go on.
Evil, in spite of it's blustery attempt to appear so, will never overrule
good. Participating universities have for years been moving away from the
dominion of the NCAA and doing what they deem appropriate for their
institutions. If the NCAA thinks it can tyrannize the nation's athletic
programs, it is going to find itself alone on the island it creates. Exclusion
from their little kingdom will mean less than nothing.
Mr. Rock - mark my words, this is definitely not the end of this thing... What
a strange time we are living in!BYU is without a doubt the best
choice for the Big12. No rational person can claim otherwise. In fact,
it's not even close when comparing what BYU can bring to the table versus
any other school. I think BYU will need to adopt an Honor Code
similar to the one's TCU and Baylor use, and to some extent what Notre Dame
uses. Because what they have now will not cut it for long.I still
find it almost beyond belief that a Christian school is finding itself in this
position - again what a strange time we're living in.
This mindset of "if you don't believe how we do we'll ban you"
has to end. A compromise can be made between discrimination and beliefs. And
that goes out to both sides of ideology. We can include and love someone without
supporting what they are doing.
It's too bad we can't just enjoy sports without worrying about sexual
identity, gay rights, and bathrooms.We sure have to worry about a
lot in this country. In other places they worry about food, shelter, heat...Here we worry about bathrooms and sexual identity and punishing
religions for what they believe. But I guess they do that in the Middle East