@conrariusiestSince you seem so fixated on my comment, would you
care to opine on the gist of the comment rather than your politically tinged
interpretation of its intent.My comment posits that the SLCC policy
defining plagiarism as the use of any seven consecutive words that have been
used by someone else Is hopelessly overbroad. Agree or disagree?I
didn't say that Ms. Trump's speech did or didn't plagerize Ms.
Obama's speech (it did)...and my only references to Ms. Obama's speech
was in reference to SLCC's seven consecutive word policy, which was, by the
way the subject of the article.In the midst of the current election
I suspect it's easy to read political undertones in just about any comment,
even those where none were intended. Lighten up, not everyone is trying to pick
@let's roll --"My comment had nothing to do with politics
or Ms. Trump."Suuuuuuure. And you just "happened" to
reference Michelle's speech **three times**. Because your comment did NOT
have anything to do with -- you know -- Michelle's speech.Uh-huh.
@ContrariusMy comment had nothing to do with politics or Ms. Trump.
It was a comment on the SLCC policy defining plagiarism. My point is that if
the seven consecutive word policy is hopelessly overbroad. Ms. Trump isn't
subject to that policy but SLCC students are...which seems unfortunate.Apology accepted.
@GaryO,RE: "Why would she have always been proud of America anyway?
She was born and raised in Slovenia. And Slovenia is a Russian ally"...---Open your mind a little. I know lots of people outside the
United States that love the USA.I served a Mission in Japan, and met
tons of people who loved the USA. Some old-timers even said they respected the
United States during the war (though we were their enemy).Many
Russians like the USA. Many move here!It's the Russian
Government that has issues with the United States (not the people). I hope you
realize this.This is going to sound political, but I think it's
relevant to this point GaryO is trying to make (that you can't love USA if
you don't live in USA)... Russian approval of USA leadership is
currently at an all time low (1%).And Russian disapproval of USA is at all
time high.Don't believe me...Google "Russians'
Approval of U.S. Leadership Drops to Record 1%" - (Gallup)Look
at the approve/disprove graph over time.1% like us now. 33% liked
us in 2008 (Pre-Obama/Clinton reboot)
@2 bits --"Donald isn't being accused of
plagiarism."Except that it was Donald's employee -- not
even an employee of his campaign, but his own personal employee."Melania is not running for office."Neither is Michelle.
That hasn't stopped Repubs from attacking her for years now."You call for Donald to resign because his wife said something."Nah. That plagiarism is one of the smallest of the sins from
Donald's campaign. It's just indicative of his organization's
mindset."This is the media attacking a candidate's
wife."Not really. Personally, I pretty much give Melania herself
a pass on it. After all, as someone else pointed out, she isn't even a
native English speaker -- and she wasn't the major writer of the speech.The biggest scandal here wasn't the plagiarism itself, but rather
the ridiculous response of Donald and his campaign.
@ECR and ContrariusRE: "And what was the result of Biden's
admitted plagiarism? He dropped out of the race. So... con we get some
consideration for Trump to drop out of this race? Please Please
Please?"...---Donald isn't being accused of
plagiarism. Melania is. Quit begging for him to drop out for something a
relative said.Melania is not running for office. She's not a
politician. She is a wife and mother. Not a politician or a professional
speaker.Joe Biden's campaign was ended partially by things in
HIS speeches (not a relative's speeches). HIS plagiarism (not a
relative's). Barack Obama was accused of plagiarizing from his
long-time friend Deval Patrick... did you insist he end his campaign?You call for Donald to resign because his wife said something. If
it were Donald's speech... it may be different. Should Obama
resign over things his wife has said? She's had some speaking gaffs during
his campaign too.And remember it was Obama who told the media to
back-off on attacking candidates wife and children.This is the media
attacking a candidate's wife.According to Obama... that's
Lost in DC said "funny that the liberals are all over trump's wife, but
they choose to ignore the fact joey biden did it back in 92."And
what was the result of Biden's admitted plagiarism? He dropped out of the
race. So... con we get some consideration for Trump to drop out of this race?
Please Please Please?
As it's all happening in real time and at a frenetic pace, the outrages of
the Trump "campaign" can't be fully appreciated. In years to come
we will look back at this particular episode as one of the strangest things that
has ever happened in American politics. "His wife's speech was ripped
off and from his biggest enemies wife!"Those who try to write
this off as "innocent mistake" and "nothing to see here," have
absolutely nothing else to utter unless it's to put their fingers in their
ears, close their eyes and chant "Benghazi" until it goes away. I'm
told that this is a response that a lot of children give when they are called on
the carpet for cheating. Sometimes their parents back them up on that.
@2 bits --"Also remember-- Melania Trump isn't running for
any office."Oh, absolutely true. I'm just pointing out
three things:1. Plagiarism was taken very seriously in previous
elections.2. Biden owned up to his failings, while Trump's campaign
concocted laughable obfuscations for days.3. The speechwriter who
eventually fessed up to the plagiarism is an employee of The Donald, who
certainly *is* running for office.Oh, and #4: Biden didn't
plagiarize from a political opponent whom he had spent years ridiculing and
insulting; Trump's campaign did."Are we going to start
holding candidates responsible for the sins of their spouses?"The speechwriter who eventually fessed up was -- and still is -- an employee
of The Donald. "Family of candidates are offlimits"Michelle has never been off-limits to the myriad conservatives who have spent
years insulting her.Double standard, much?@a Thompson
--"In 2008, Michelle Obama said: "Yet again --
watch the video with the split screens for yourself. Melania stole a LOT more
than those few phrases.@let's roll --"That
said, the idea that using those seven words together is plagiarism"Stop trying to rewrite history. It was a LOT more than seven words. Watch the
What's so wrong with plagiarizing?"Although plagiarism is
not a criminal or civil offense, plagiarism is illegal [only] if it infringes an
author's intellectual property rights, including copyright or
trademark."So that I don't get accused of plagiarizing,
here's the author of the above quote - Stephanie Morrow, College Professor
2Bits..... I don't think anyone is belittling Ms. Trump.... well at least
that is my interpretation of events. What makes this scenario so unique is Ms.
Trump is quoted as admiring Ms. Obama.... and it seems so much to the point
that she used Ms. Obama's words to relate her own feelings. Normally this
would not be such a big deal, but that she was doing so in front of an audience
that considers the Obama's as the second coming of ISIS. The
funny thing is as rude, crude, and low ball at Mr. Trump can be..... he is also
honest enough to give credit where he thinks it is due. Just today he
complimented Hillary for her speech, saying it was well done. And we know if
he didn't like it, we would have all known about it.The problem
isn't so much the Trumps.... they are who they are...... it is the odd
dance of the religious right and neoconservatives embracing people who until
this year were everything they were against.
@Contrarius,RE: "Also remember -- revelations about Biden's
plagiarism ended his campaign"...---Also remember--
Melania Trump isn't running for any office.Are we going to
start holding candidates responsible for the sins of their spouses?Hillary
Clinton would come on the bad-end of that one.And like candidate
Barack Obama said... Family of candidates are offlimits (speaking in defense of
his kids and Sarah Palin's kids, who were being attacked by politicos in
the media back then).Obama said..."back off these kinds of
stories"...Whole quote from CNN dot com:"Let me be as
clear as possible," Obama said. "I think people's families are
off-limits, and people's children are especially off-limits. This
shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's
performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice
president."Obama said reporters should "back off these kinds
of stories" and noted that he was born to an 18-year-old mother."How a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't
be the topic of our politics, and I hope that anybody who is supporting me
understands that's off-limits:...
The memory of those who are outraged at Mrs. Trump must be as short as Michelle
Obama's memory. Mrs. Trump was not the first person to plagiarize those
words.In 2008, Michelle Obama said: "that you work hard for what
you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say
you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if
you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them."In 1989, Stephen R. Covey wrote: "work hard for what you want in
life. Number two, treat your word as your bond and always do what you say
you’re going to do. And number three, respect everyone and treat them with
dignity even if you don’t know them or agree with them."I
learned math fifty years ago, but doesn't 1989 come before 2008?Did Michelle Obama cite Dr. Covey when she used his words?
@lost --"funny that the liberals are all over trump's wife,
but they choose to ignore the fact joey biden did it back in 92"Not ignoring anything. It was a stupid thing to do.But here's
the thing: Biden owned up to it, **and** he had specifically cited Kinnock (the
source of the plagiarized speech material) as the source for his words on
previous occasions. He didn't spend days making up stories about My Little
Pony and similar nonsense.Also remember -- revelations about
Biden's plagiarism ended his campaign. Hmmmmm.
To answer the author's question, apparently the message to SLCC students is
that you can't include in any written submission at the school the
phrase--to treat people with dignity and respect--without a citation to Ms.
Obam's speech or you have violated the school's policy on
plagiarism.That said, the idea that using those seven words together
is plagiarism doesn't seem to be an example of a way to treat people with
dignity and respect.I suspect everyone who read the article has both
said and written that exact phrase and very few of us have ever heard or read
Ms. Obama's speech. I for one plan to continue to encourage others to
treat people with dignity and respect without feeling any need to attribute the
phrase to Ms. ObamaI can't imagine SLCC slavishly applies its
seven consecutive word policy.
funny that the liberals are all over trump's wife, but they choose to
ignore the fact joey biden did it back in 92
@Joan Watson --"You yourself declared/accused Melania of being a
liar."Nope, actually, I didn't -- because I didn't
give an opinion about whether Melania wrote the speech or not."One does not read in M Richards comments that he wrote as you said he
did"One does if one actually reads Mike's comment.I'll quote him again: "Mrs. Trump did not write that speech. For any
liberal or Democrat to tell us differently is to show us that those people who
make such statements cannot be trusted"In other words, anyone
who says that Melania wrote the speech can't be trusted."If
you are convinced Melania is a liar, why bother attacking others on their
opinions and comments that seem not to your liking?"Yet again --
it doesn't matter whether Melania actually wrote it or not. The amusing
thing is that, since Melania **said** that she wrote it, Mike has just declared
that Melania herself can't be trusted.Get it now?
Oh for Pete's sake get over this. It's a non issue. Who cars. I
really doubt that Mrs. Trump including the same words in a speech that Mrs.
Obama spoke is going to damage anyone's edumacation.I'll
be I can find Mrs. Obama's words in another speech given by someone else
over the years.
There is a lesson to be learned from the plagiarism episode. That lesson was
delivered by Donald J. Trump when he told the speech writer, who wrote that
speech which was the basis of the speech that Mrs. Trump gave, that everybody
makes mistakes. Basically, he used the example of Christ when, in effect, he
said, "Go and sin no more" to the speech writer. That's not good
enough for those who have their stack of stones which they are throwing at Mrs.
Trump. They want blood. There is no desire on their part to forgive or
forget.Yes, there is a lesson to be learned. We're either
teaching children to hate and to despise and to take advantage of mistakes or
we're teaching them to forgive and to go on with their lives. Mrs. Trump
did not write her speech. She used a speech written for her and adapted it to
suit her ability to speak. She said as much when she openly acknowledged that
she had had help with the speech. She protected her speech writer instead of
throwing stones. Go ahead and throw stones if you want.
Contrariuser - You yourself declared/accused Melania of being a liar. One does
not read in M Richards comments that he wrote as you said he did that '
Anyone who said Melania wrote the speech much be a liar.' But then you
could not end it there but added to this non existent quote: "In other
words, you called Melania a liar, since she herself said that she wrote it."
If you are convinced Melania is a liar, why bother attacking others on
their opinions and comments that seem not to your liking?
@Mike Richards --"When she said that she used as little help as
possible, did that mean that she started with a speech written by a speech
writer (just like Obama, like Michelle, like Hillary and every other person in
the public eye) and then adapt it to her personal style (just like Ronald
Reagan, JFK and FDR)?"You're missing the point. It
doesn't matter whether she wrote it or not. You claimed that anyone who
said Melania wrote the speech must be a liar. In other words, you called Melania
a liar, since she herself said that she wrote it.So, Mike -- is
Melania a liar or not?
"My favorite part of Melania's speech is when she said how she had
loved America -- how she had ALWAYS loved America and how proud she ALWAYS was
of America. Contrast that to what Michelle said in 2008. What a refreshing
breeze to have a first lady who is proud of her country....for a
change!!"@Patriot..... am I to assume by this stance, assuming
you have kids our a spouse, that your kids or spouse never did anything that you
were not proud of, and yet you still loved them? Is it at all possible that one
can love someone or something yet not always proud of what they have done?For example, is it possible to love our country and yet not be proud of
the treatment of Japanese Americans during World War II? Is it possible to not
proud of the fact we sold weapons to Iran, who just held Americans hostage, to
fund a covert war in latin America, yet still love America? Can we still love
our country (or Family) even when they do things wrong?I don't
always agree with what my country or family does - but still love them.
I can only say, "...if it talks like a duck and looks like a duck,
it’s a duck."I think I've heard/read that before.
Plagiarism?@The Real Maverick:"It's sad the great
lengths that repubs are going to in order to defend Trump."It's even sadder (actually it's humerus) the great length Dems are
willing to go through to defend Hillary.@GaryO:"She was
born and raised in Slovenia. And Slovenia is a Russian ally."True. And perhaps in Slovenia they don't make a big to-do out of someone
saying something that someone else said earlier.
Pretax - I'm not sure if you understand the issue. Of course Ms. Obama had
folks helping her write her speech just as I'm sure Ms. Trump did.
I'm sure both women put their personal touches into those speeches as they
developed the speech with the other writers. The issue in question is whether
some of the words that Ms Trump spoke were lifted, word for word, regardless of
who wrote the speech, and it is obvious they were. The bumbling Trump campaign
took more than 36 hours to finally admit the words were, in fact, taken from Ms.
Obama's speech, after multiple attempts to cover it up. Such is the nature
of the Trump campaign that has no answers to the issues of the day and offer
only insults and criticism of others. When Mr. Trump is not insulting others he
is doing his imitation of a five year old with his multiple "he did it
first" arguments. Our country can't afford and shouldn't want to
have such a childish person leading our nation and representing us to the rest
of the world.
Anybody think that Obama wrote her own speech? Such a silly argument since
political speeches come mostly from speech writers. Time to come back to
reality. The DNC fixed the election, that should be the topic of
discussion, don't let the media lead you down their path.
Liberals and Democrats find it really easy to find fault even as they try to
twist what was said. Mrs. Trump was born in Slovenia. When she said that she
used as little help as possible, did that mean that she started with a speech
written by a speech writer (just like Obama, like Michelle, like Hillary and
every other person in the public eye) and then adapt it to her personal style
(just like Ronald Reagan, JFK and FDR)?Go ahead, write something in
Slovenian. Do it on your own. Show us how liberals and democrats would write a
speech in a non-native language and we'll all laugh together at your
mistakes. I know, because I've tried to write a "speech" in a
non-native language. It got laughs when none were intended. How
about turning off all the teleprompters and let everyone stand on their own
merits? But that wouldn't work for you would it because letting your people
use speech writers, effectively using other peoples' words and ideas is
just fine with you - isn't it? How many of your people gave proper credit
to their speech writers?
Hey Patriot -"My favorite part of Melania's speech is when
she said how she had loved America -- how she had ALWAYS loved America and how
proud she ALWAYS was of America"Except she didn't they she
was "how proud she ALWAYS was of America"Referring to her
parents, she said this: "Their integrity, compassion and intelligence
reflects to this day on me and for my love of family and America."So . . . Apparently she loves America now because of her parents'
compassion and intelligence. Why would she have always been proud
of America anyway? She was born and raised in Slovenia. And Slovenia is a
Mike Richards said "Mrs. Trump did not write that speech. For any liberal or
Democrat to tell us differently is to show us that those people who make such
statements cannot be trusted"But...Mrs. Trump said to TODAY Show
host Matt Lauer, "I read it once over, and that's all because I wrote
it with as little help as possible,"So...Mike, is Mrs. Trump
someone that "cannot be trusted", or is that description strictly for
"liberals and Democrats"? And please tell me why that reasoning makes
any sense at all.
@Mike Richards --"Mrs. Trump did not write that speech."LOL.Do you realize you've just called Melania herself a
liar? She said, and I quote, that "I wrote it with [as] little help as
possible.""Did Mrs. Obama credit Stephen R. Covey? Why
not?"Probably because she didn't plagiarize him nearly word
I think you're giving too much credit to the influence someone like Ms.
trump might have. Kids are opportunists. If they think they can cheat, some of
them will cheat.
Mrs. Trump did not write that speech. For any liberal or Democrat to tell us
differently is to show us that those people who make such statements cannot be
trusted; that they, not the person they accuse are poor examples to students;
that the,y not the person they accuse, should be ashamed of twisting facts to
suit their political purposes.As someone who spent two years in
France and Belgium, I would have had no idea whether words I used in my
"speeches" were "stolen" from others because, just like Mrs.
Trump, when I gave a "speech", I asked people who understood French to
assist me by writing my speech for me so that it would be understandable to
those who understood French.Now, would someone please explain why
Michelle Obama's 2008 speech and Stephen R. Covey's "The 7 Habits
of Highly Effective People" are cut from the same cloth? Did Mrs. Obama
credit Stephen R. Covey? Why not?
My favorite part of Melania's speech is when she said how she had loved
America -- how she had ALWAYS loved America and how proud she ALWAYS was of
America. Contrast that to what Michelle said in 2008. What a refreshing breeze
to have a first lady who is proud of her country....for a change!!
Nan BW said "... but how can we point fingers at Melania Trump and allow
Hillary Clinton to lie up one side and down the other"Nan - I
hope you'll be good enough to provide us with evidence of your assertion.
And while you're doing will you be sure to mention the 8 Congressional
investigations regarding the Benghazi attack, all of which said she did nothing
wrong, or maybe the years long $90M Whitewater investigation that said she did
nothing wrong, or how about the accusations of her being involved with, or
outright committing the murder of her friend Vince Foster that was debunked
immediately and shown to be nothing more than a partisan witch hunt with a cruel
and inhumane accusation. I'm sure there are many more instances of folks
making claims about Hillary Clinton but the only thing that has been proven
about her is the fact that she has spent her entire adult life serving the needs
of people who need help in overcoming obstacles that deny them their God-given
rights. It will be wonderful to have her leading our country come January.
I think it is pathetic that honesty has become of so little value, but how can
we point fingers at Melania Trump and allow Hillary Clinton to lie up one side
and down the other (oops, I don't know who to credit for that expression)?
We have many pots calling kettles black (oh, no another quote that belongs to
someone else) in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party that we
can't count them. However, at least the Republican platform is pro-life, or
am I using someone else's statement?
.... add to this that her web site has been taken down because it contained
false claims about her education, that she held a degree from college - one that
she attended for only a year - I feel bad for her. I think the Trumps under
estimated how public their lives were about to become, the level of scrutiny it
would be under.Trump is used to be the boss.... and what he says
goes on without being questioned. The problem is that we are not election him
to be dictator, but that he will in turn go from being the boss, to having 320
million bosses who will have the right to judge him and his actions. Never
before has the Trump family had to work this way.I feel sorry for
her. She will be picked apart at every opportunity, just as Michelle Obama was,
and Hillary was when she was fist lady. I am not sure the Trumps understand how
this is very different than being the King of Casinos and Golf courses.
anti-liar said to Impartial7:"...her speech was a fraud."
That is unreasonable. The sentiments she expressed are NOT Michelle's
exclusive property nor are they unique to her."Maybe he was
simply referring to the news that she lied in her speech, well part's she
didn't steal from the 1st lady anyway.Too funny, to watch the party
of superior moral's and religion, embrace the opposite and twist and spin
and justify to vote for a person who is not republican, or conservative, but a
reality TV personality and a talk radio dj.
"Melania Trump’s now infamous speech is not only a disgrace for
Trump’s campaign, but more egregiously, it’s damaging to our
education system . . . "Yes, but it's a relatively minor
disgrace.Look . . . We're talking about the Republican Party
here, the Party who did it's best to HARM this nation so that angry
citizens would NOT reelect Obama . . . The Party that did its best (or worst) to
purposefully obstruct every useful initiative advanced by Obama so that his
administration would be regarded as a failure.Disgraceful,
anti-American behavior was characteristic of GOP politics LONG before Trump
declared his candidacy.Trump is just the logical consequence of that
Republican proclivity.Yes, Melania plagiarized. Trump's website
falsely claims she is a college graduate. She isn't. She falsely claimed
she wrote her speech. She didn't. Trump says he will make America great
again. But he couldn't possibly hope to do anything but devastate
America.The Republican Party IS without doubt the Party of Trump . .
. And it has been for decades.
@Impartial7"...her speech was a fraud."That is
unreasonable. The sentiments she expressed are NOT Michelle's exclusive
property nor are they unique to her. "...Trump is dangerous for
America..." Aw, c'mon, let's be honest. Trump is
dangerous for the status quo, for businessmen and other entities who currently
are cashing in handsomely on things like illegal immigration and TPP.
It's sad the great lengths that repubs are going to in order to defend
What message does Melania's plagiarism send to students?Easy.
That it's OK to plagiarize, especially if you're super cool looking.
Just like Trump University & Melania's "architectural design"
degree, her speech was a fraud. Smart Republicans won't let all of
Trump's rhetoric distract them from the fact that Trump is dangerous for
America & will vote for someone else.
SportsFan7 - Based on your comment I can't believe you actually read the
article. "One questionable passage includes 23 consecutive, exact
words." Do you really think saying those exact words is nothing more than a
coincidence? And as the author points out, the most egregious action of the
Trump supporters is their defense of this action. "But 93% of it was NOT
plagiarized" argued former federal prosecutor Chris Christie. I wonder if
he ever used that argument in the courtroom? Or more likely, I wonder if he
ever let a defense attorney make such an argument without strongly refuting his
assertion?Melania Trump originally stated she wrote the speech
herself, with little help, but now a Trump organization employee, not an
employee of the campaign organization, has taken credit for writing it and
Melania is more than happy to let her do so. But isn't this the perfect
opportunity for Trump to use his favorite line and tell that employee
"You're fired!"? But instead there was no firing. Some people are
saying she even got a big bonus for taking the heat. But I'm not saying
that, just other people.
Sportsfan7..... no one is saying anyone has exclusive rights to ideas.... but
they do have the right to be critical when someone uses word for word someone
else speech, that is a problem. As the story evolves, it is said that
Melania's plagiarism was largely due to her respect for the first lady,
admired what she has stood for, and liked what she said. No problems there.
No, the right thing to do that would should have prevented all this
mess is simply to quote the other person. But can you imagine had Melania
credited those words to Michelle. That she supported this same vision for our
kids? The neocons would have escorted her from the building. Pretending this was about just simply similar political ideals, is as you say
"not credible or at worst disengenious"... when sections were lifted
word for word.
@SportsFan7 --"The viewpoint provided here is not credible or at
worst disengenious."Stop trying to excuse the inexcusable.
Melania's own speechwriter has now admitted to the plagiarism. Get over
it.And further, now Melania's own Facebook page has been taken
down. Why? Because she was caught lying about her academic achievements. She
claimed to have earned a college degree when she actually dropped out after a
single year.And she dares to make speeches about character and
Luckily the idiom "the best thing since sliced bread" is only 6 words
long, so I can include that idiom without crediting the first person who said
it.Unfortunately, if I want to say somebody "bit off more than
they can chew" I've now run afoul of the 7 word rule, and I had better
find the first person who used that phrase (good luck) if I want to use it in a
speech.But I think this whole issue is pretty silly. It's
really hard to be totally original when politicians are pretty much *always*
speaking in sound-bites and tired metaphors. It doesn't excuse the
plagiarism of course, but somehow I don't think this issue will be what
makes a whole lot of people less likely to vote for Trump.Trump
himself has provided all of the ammunition needed to allow somebody to feel good
about not voting for him. My reasons to withhold my vote from him have
absolutely nothing to do with Melania's speech. She could have given the
best, and most original, political speech EVER and I still wouldn't vote
The viewpoint provided here is not credible or at worst disengenious. The
thought that Michelle Obama has exclusive rights in a political speech to ideas
like 'respect for other people' or looking to the 'next or future
generations' or 'achievement parameters tied to dreaming big' is