@RanchRE: Homosexuality, Christianity, and suicideJohn
8:11@Karen R."There's an apparent marketing
effort underway in these pages, extolling the virtues of religious
involvement."RE: marketingYou can call it marketing
and I'll call it informing. It is sad how irreligious instead of digging
into the details of studies they instead decide to simply like to wish it away
by labeling it "marketing".@1aggieRE: suicide
and UtahYou should also mention that suicide is relatively high in
high elevation locals."According to the National Violent Death
Reporting System, a surveillance system run by the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention, Utah and other states in the Rockies consistently have the
highest suicide rates in the country aside from Alaska. In the map below, the
block of red — states with suicide rates over 14 per 100,000 people
— is hard to miss."@Steve C. Warrenre:
GolfingWomen Golf? Where?
All I know about this study is from the above article. However. the
relationship between suicide and lack of church attendance does not necessarily
prove cause and effect. It might be that people suffering from mental illness
are not as likely, for all sorts of reasons, to be regular church attenders.
@ Jeanie"Why bring up the subject of people not needing religion
or finding alternatives when the article stated the opposite?"Because, as my first two comments indicate, I see this article as part of a
marketing strategy, presumably developed in response to the evidence that
people, primarily young people (collectively the "Nones"), are
increasingly disengaging from organized religion. The message is (as I see it),
"Don't leave. Studies show religion is good for you." The
Nones' behavior, specifically the deliberate omission of dogma and
supernatural claims from their new groups, suggests that this isn't
necessarily the case for everyone.@ RedshirtPointing out
that the strictly religious aspects of religious involvement aren't
necessarily beneficial to all doesn't refute this study's findings.
I'd guess that women who golf once a week are six times less likely to
commit suicide than women who never golf. People who are in a good place
mentally are much more likely to be actively involved in life than people who
Karen - The article wasn't speaking about alternative ways
people are finding what they need as a framework for their life. It was speaking
to a study done on the value or religious participation in a demographic of
30-50 year old female health workers. And the findings that it was indeed very
helpful. You skipped all that information and jumped right into the
statement that many people, in particular the young (that the article
didn't address) are finding what they need without religion. Why bring up
the subject of people not needing religion or finding alternatives when the
article stated the opposite? Unless as an athiest you are actively proscelyting
(marketing) your own ideas. I think religion is here to stay and
there are many rational, thoughtful and intelligent people young and old who
find it - all of it (products A-Z) invaluable. Last comment : )
(Try number 2)It is a fact that more young people in the U.S. than
in previous generations are not affiliated with organized religion.Most
likely there are many factors contributing to the decline in religious
affiliation including such things as advances in technology and easier access to
information. Technology also has changed the way young people connect with each
other. Other factors might be the marriage of politics and religion--damaging
both institutions and a more open society, specifically people self-identifying
as LGBT, combined with organized religion's opposition to more rights for
people who are LGBT.I can understand how organized religion could
possibly be a factor in reduced suicide rates for women. Churches can provide
opportunities to socialize and engage in service. In UT, the LDS culture is very
dominant and deeply ingrained. Of course other organizations can provide similar
opportunities. I find it interesting that it is pornography, not
suicide, which becomes the focus in a state where suicide rates are relatively
Red Corvette, I reread my comment a few times and I never mentioned
shoes. : )
We cannot expect those without faith to understand faith. And in the case of
some commenters, we cannot even have the respect that perhaps we have something
they don't have. We are considered to be lairs and frauds, just because
they do not have faith as we have that is as sure as we can feel our feet.Evidence that religion does nothing for anyone just doesn't exist,
but we can all agree that for some, faith does nothing. And we understand why.
@jeanie The shoe fits.
Karen- I'll bite. Maybe the young, and you, don't see
the reported benefits because they are being told by society that you need to
have tangible gratification. And if that is not being met, then you are not
happy. It needs to be instantaneous and tangible according to society and when
people can't find that they jump ship. That is not what God or faith in
God is. And yet, there are scientific studies that show there are benefits to
belief in God and religious study. Joseph Smith once said, " The things of
God are of great import; and time and experience and careful and ponderous and
solemn thoughts can only find them out."
To "Karen R." Why should I address it. As your first post shows, I
could show you the best scientific study done that would prove you wrong. You
would reject it because it doesn't fit your world view.Your
claims are false because you claim that the world can recreate something that
religion has. Well, where is it? The study looked at the non-religious and
compared them to the religious and found that those that were religious
benefited.Again, you are showing that despite the science proving
that religions provide benefits you are rejecting science.The point
you attempted to make is more like science proving the world is round, and you
insist it is flat because that is how you see it.
@ jeanie, Mick & Redshirt,Each of you responded to something I
didn't say and none of you addressed my central point at all. I find this
interesting too. Here it is again, put another way:If I'm
running an organization that offers products A and B, but I'm losing
members and many are going to other organizations that only offer product A,
then aren't I going to wonder why product B doesn't help me?
Particularly if I think product B is the greatest product ever sold -
aren't I going to wonder why that isn't tipping the balance in my
favor? Why when former members do migrate to different organizations do they
only seek Product A? Doesn't that suggest that this is what seemed most
valuable or helpful to them, not Product B?That's all I was
To "Karen R." you and your ilk are funny. If this had been a scientific
study about Climate Change being man's fault, or saying that being LGBT
makes you superhuman you would accept it without any questions. Yet since it
goes against your beliefs you immediately seek to discredit a scientific
study.Why deny science? Your comment shows that you are denying
this because you don't agree with it, not because their method or findings
have any flaw.To "1aggie" that is nice, but it doesn't
relate to the study. Of those suicide attempts in Utah, what percentage were by
religious people, and what were by non-religious people? Maybe the
non-religious people are driving up the statistic.
karen-You calling the DN biased is the pot calling the kettle black.
The DN is a news paper owned by the LDS church whose readers are primarily LDS.
Any yet you, an atheist, continues to be shocked and comment on all articles
that are religious.Aggie1-Report the suicide rates for
all western states. There has been a link to increased suicide in the Rocky
Mountain states. But I get the "point" you are trying to make.
A few facts from Utah Public Health:"Utah's suicide rate
was 20.8 per 100,000 persons. This is an average of 557 suicides per year. Utah
has one of the highest age-adjusted suicide rates in the U.S. In
2014, suicide was the leading cause of death for Utahns ages 10 to 17 and 18-24.
It is the second leading cause of death for ages 25 to 44 and the fourth-leading
cause of death for ages 45-64. Overall, suicide is the eight-leading cause of
death for Utahns ages 10+.Completed suicides are only part of the
problem. More people are hospitalized or treated in an emergency room for
suicide attempts than are fatally injured. In 2013, 13 Utahns were treated for
self-inflicted injuries every day (3,181 emergency department visits and 1,508
Karen R. Not all young people are walking away from religion. Many
are walking toward it. I don't know the percentages of either group, but
many people older and younger find the framework of religion sustaining. That it
doesn't work for you doesn't mean it has no inherent value to others.
The naysayers in the late 1800s believed religion would be dead by now . They
were wrong. Millions find it exceptionally valuable in our day, myself and my
young adult children and most (but not all) of their friends included. Silver StingrayIf your definition of propaganda is spreading
information to support a particular belief, then everyone who has an idea for
society's betterment uses propaganda. If however your definition is
misinformation, or exaggerated information to mislead people into believing
things not totally true then this article doesn't fit.
@ michaelitosThe DN has run several stories recently that highlight
the benefits of regular religious involvement. This is what I was referring to.
@michaelitosIts called propaganda. And it is no different from reading
@KarenSince when does reporting on a newly published scholarly study in a
newspaper where the readership in general would find the topic newsworthy
There's an apparent marketing effort underway in these pages, extolling the
virtues of religious involvement. Okay. But people, particularly the young,
aren't walking away because of the things religion does well and these
beneficial aspects clearly aren't enough to keep them. They can be, and
are being, recreated elsewhere without all of the supernatural claims and dogma.
Which suggests that people are walking away from the very things that make
religion religion. Interesting.
Unless you happen to be LGBT, then your risk goes up exponentially. How do I
know? Personal experience.