There is a HUGE difference between KNOWING a subject and being able to TEACH a
subject! Classroom management is not a minor issue ... nor is being asked to
manage five or six classrooms of 35-40 students if you are a middle or high
school teacher. There is an alternative route to teaching now, and it would be
interesting to see what the "staying power" is of those teachers. I
know my sister-in-law teachers 9th grade math, and none of the match teachers at
her high school who came through the alternative route ended up staying more
than a year. I'm sure there are some who are able to handle it, but hard
data would be useful.
@littlemissknowitallYour last sentence touches on the root cause of
the problem. The state does not have the money to fix education and they do not
want to take measures (raising taxes) to get the money. My suggestion has
always been to simply to have a class fee for every class, so the more kids you
have the more you pay into public education. It's equitable and fair.
Make the pay better and teachers will stay in the profession longer and more
people will want to become teachers. I'm not sure we need a laid off
engineer teaching math when all he/she is going to do is leave at the first
chance they get. And most, as said on these posts, aren't that great at
teaching. Make being a teacher a respected job with good pay and things will
change, stay this course and disaster awaits for our public schools.
The state already has an Alternate Route to Licensure (ARL) program in place.
This is our State School Board kicking the can down the road. Their
"discussions" about how to attract and keep new teachers have been going
on for over a decade and will continue for the next decade until the crisis
causes schools to close.
I refuse to mentor a teacher during my contract hours. I am overloaded as it is.
I don't have time to babysit a teacher who didn't bother to go to
school and learn the skills needed. We have jobs to do; the state school board
needs to step up and mentor all these teachers. Please people! We teachers are
not your mommy and we're not your daddy. We will not bend over backward to
make you happy. If you don't have the money to pay teachers, lower class
sizes, and build schools, then get out of the education business, and start
shutting the doors.
Lew,Sorry but you are not correct. I am a local teacher association
leader and the UEa has never opposed ARL. Have they said that ARL is not the
answer to the teacher shortage yes. Have they advocated teachers be required to
take course work to learn teaching skills (classroom management, lesson planning
etc) yes. Have they even advocated that we use ARL teachers especially in
Career Technical Education (CTE) areas yes. My son against my suggestion went
the ARL route, he will finish it in one year with basically one class per week.
The cost to him will be under $1000.00. I understand that is not free, but it
is much cheaper and less time consuming than if he would have completed an
education degree in college. Your statement that a content area
expert can just walk in and teach does not match my experience. For every ARL
content expert I have seen that has come in and even lasted five years I have
seen five who have not. Excluding CTE teachers I have seen very few that have
come in and been outstanding teachers, and almost 0 in the area of math. That
is just my experience over 30 years.
Lew the "education establishment" as you refer to are the individuals
who end up having to mentor these folks. It is time intensive and nearly
impossible to teach my class and mentor folks who need a ton of mentoring. Those
folks who graduate from teacher ed programs are better prepared to step into a
classroom. They have spend semesters in classrooms learning pedagogy and
classroom management techniques as well as have a complete understanding of
child development and child psychology. The path should be complex prior
to entering a classroom. I do not want children to have an unqualified teacher
in front of them just as I would not want an unqualified doctor treating me. Your statements reflect a lack of understanding and respect for the profession
I guess pretty soon they will go to the colleges and mandate that graduates will
be drafted to be Teachers for 3 years......LOL! Utah Teachers who won't
mind living in remote villages for a few years can make mega bucks for teaching
in a remote town up in Alaska and be able to pay off their student loans in no
time, if they are recent college graduates.
For those who are saying this already exists, you are wrong. Yes
there are SIMILAR rules in place that allow districts to take non-certified
teachers, but in the older rules, a) the districts don't have to accept
such candidates, and b) a non certified teacher has to complete several
semesters of teaching course work in order to be licensed after three years
(student teaching wouldn't be required, for obvious reasons). I also seem to remember that under the old rules, you have to have a certain
number of graduate hours in your area of expertise, where this doesn't seem
to.be a requirement of the new rules.So this does constitute a
significant change in the rules. These create a statewide universal alternate
path to licensure that doesn't require those with demonstrated expertise in
an area and competence in the classroom to become licensed without going back to
Stone age teacher wages in one of the most educated populations in the US. With
all that teachers are required to do in and out of the classroom, no wonder the
first-year retention rate is so low. When all of the hours a teacher spends to
do the job, they are working for minimum wages or less. Oh, When will they ever
learn, oh when will they ever learn?
The teacher shortage is generally in the fields of math and science and special
education. There might be a lot of applicants for any said job but
qualified applicants are a bit harder to find. In rural schools,
often teachers have to do multiple roles teaching maybe English and PE and
coach. These districts are less affluent and jobs are actually fewer in number.
A school like Escalante HS might have 10 teachers total where the math
department of a 5A school in an urban area might have as many or more teachers.
For better or worse rural schools will often favor hiring former graduates,
relatives of prominent members of the community etc. At one level lit makes
sense because these people know the community and are more likely to stay there
longer. Urban teachers are more likely to leave the profession and change
schools.The bigger problem is teaching turnover. Good or promising
young teachers get frustrated and leave the profession. Older teachers nearing
retire can't wait to get out of what has become a toxic system. In about
ten years I would expect schools to have few veteran teachers and constantly
turning over new people.
"You can have a very, very brilliant mathematician who cannot just
automatically communicate that information to a class of 40,
13-year-olds."Not likely."Jones said the
association isn't opposed to alternative paths to licensure, "Yes they are.
@Utah Teacher "At our school we have had about 5 people on the alternative
route to licensure plan. Not one of them has followed through on the
requirements to get a license and then they quit after year 3."Yep, because the path is just to complex, and the would be teacher has to pay
for the ed classes while dealing with a low pay teacher job. The education
establishment doesn't want anyone who hasn't gone the college of
education route. Period.
What teacher shortage?I graduated in 2003 with my bachelors in Elem Ed,
pounded the pavement working as a long term substitute teacher and interviewing
like crazy for that elusive contracted position that never appeared. Tired of
being treated like a glorified babysitter, unable to survive on a
substitute's meager salary, I gave up. According to UOE (Utah Office
of Ed) in order to return to the field as an ARL (alternate route licensure) I
need to be teaching while working with my school principal. That's not
gonna happen. Not when there's plenty of naïve college graduates
coming down the pipeline to take my place who will learn the same lessons I did
all those years ago: it is impossible to keep order in overcrowded classrooms,
supplies are nonexistent, your hands are tied and no one, including your
principal, treats you like the professional you thought you were.There is
no teacher shortage in Utah!
As some have mentioned, I'm pretty sure the reason the thought "I
should go into teaching" isn't because of the certification
requirements, but rather because of facing the prospect of going from $70-80k to
$35k. In addition, when they get there they see the behavior issues and that
isn't comforting."1. Teaching in more rural schools is
completely different than teaching in urban schools. All students pretty much
speak the same language and cultural backgrounds. Parents in rural areas often
teach their children better manners. Rural kids know how to actually put forth
some effort -- they're up feed calves at 5 in the morning."There is a lot of truth here as far as behavior goes, but I think you need to
add the fact that the population is so small in the rural areas of Utah that
schools need very few teachers to fully staff the school. Teachers go there,
love it, stay a long time, and when they do leave it's not terribly
difficult for the school to fill the void. Suburban and urban schools not only
have far worse students to deal with, they need lots of teachers to maintain the
If we had an actual teacher's union in Utah, we would simply refuse to be
the mentor for these "alternative candidates". Since we
care more about the students than our own well-being, we will probably continue
to mentor them and hold their hands while they get their feet wet in the
education world for a couple of years. Then they will quit.Sooooooo
frustrating to be a good teacher in Utah and continually get dumped on.
Let's be real. Public Education is Day Care.
As a substitute in the Canyons District making about $11,000 last year, it seems
board member Leslie Castle's comment "then we will have substitutes in
the classroom" sounds like a threat. Wow. Maybe that is part of the problem
right there. No public school district in Utah even pays substitute teachers
more than $12 an hour, in spite of college experience being required. Cache
County might be the worst, at $8 an hour because of a middleman in the form of
Kelly Educational Services (and I have nothing against Kelly Services, as I used
to work with them 20 years ago). Both of my parents were substitute teachers in
the Jordan School District for more than a decade each, and both of them
graduated at the top of their high school classes as valedictorian and
salutatorian. I also graduated as valedictorian. All three of us had
bachelor's degrees from the University of Utah and BYU. My mother was even
certified to teach elementary education. I cannot get the Canyons superintendent
to raise wages to match the districts which are next to us. Fix the sub system
first, and you will get more people who will want to teach long-term.
What void? Washington County: No teaching jobs. Iron County: No teaching jobs.
Garfield County: No teaching jobs. Kane County: No teaching jobs. Piute County:
No teaching jobs. Beaver County: No teaching jobs. Where is this void?May I offer two possible reasons for the question?1. Teaching in
more rural schools is completely different than teaching in urban schools. All
students pretty much speak the same language and cultural backgrounds. Parents
in rural areas often teach their children better manners. Rural kids know how
to actually put forth some effort -- they're up feed calves at 5 in the
morning.2. Or Utah's school districts are so starved for money
that they can't hire any teachers.
No One of Consequence said it perfectly.. It's one of the best posts
I've seen here in a long time.
What void? Washington County: No teaching jobs. Iron County: No teaching jobs.
Garfield County: No teaching jobs. Kane County: No teaching jobs. Piute County:
No teaching jobs. Beaver County: No teaching jobs. Where is this void?
Really IQ92? Who are you to determine someone's success? With IQ92's
fixed mindset, people should be working at Wal-mart as a greeter when they
The difference between public education and private education is the profit
motive of the teachers. In public education the motivation is to make good
citizens for our civilization whereas in private education the motivation is to
make good workers and consumers for the local businesses. Public
educators are more interested in teaching how to learn and how to use the tools
of education. Private education is to indoctrinate the student with only the
knowledge to do the jobs for private business. Both points of view
are acceptable in the concept of America. And should be available to the
student according to his own wishes and those of his parents. Education success could be improved if we allowed a free market to be
available. There should be two types of schools, a local school system with
local motivation and a national school system with broader motivation. Each of
the two types should be paid for by the people who control the motivation.
This article makes it seem as though this is a "new idea". Well it
isn't! This program has been around for quite some time now. If
alternative routes to licensure are so great, why hasn't it been working?
Two of my former colleagues were ARL candidates, and guess what...they are no
longer teachers....one decided to go home due to the pressure and stress, and
the other works for the district because the job paid more. No one on the school
board or in the legislature can seem to get it through their head that maybe
teachers are tired of the "glorified calling" and actually need to be
paid more to survive. As a parent, can you imagine having year after year of
teachers for your child who don't know what they are doing? My first year
of teaching, although graduated from one of the best schools in the state, did
not adequately prepare me for the riggers of the Utah classroom. My former
colleagues were psych majors, this helped a little, but not much.
This is nothing new, we already have an alternate route licensure (ARL) program
that sounds exactly like this one. The state is working hard at avoiding all
the solutions that work. There are 3 that would make a big difference. First
compensation, you want quality you have to for it. Second get rid of the
education bureaucracy. The legislature passes 50-100 new Ed laws every year.
School Boards both state and local feel a need to justify their existence by
adding more. Teachers are constantly trying to hit a new target. Three cut the
amount of time students are in school and give teachers adequate paid time to
prepare. These little inconsequential changes mean nothing. The
data was in the article as to why we are having a shortage in this did nothing
to address the data. But it didn't cost anything so that's the
typical type of solution.
There are so many problems with this Board rule that I am not sure where to
begin. I am an award-winning teacher with almost 40 years in the classroom. This
is not the answer. But I am compelled to speak my truth with regard to what
message this sends to educators. First, the Board clearly does not respect the
complexity of teaching-the pedagogy, classroom management, child psychology and
child development. All of these are necessary in order to be a skilled educator.
Content knowledge is the easiest piece to acquire but the previously mentioned
items take years and experience and mentoring in order to master. The
State Board is putting another band aid on this problem. Disrespecting teachers
and the teaching profession. The sheer amount of mentoring these folks will need
is staggering. Oh, but wait, they will want those teachers who graduated with a
teaching degree to teach them all of these necessary skills! Once again, the
State Board shows its contempt for the educator workforce in Utah.
Not a bad idea fir some. While not solving all retention in one fellle swoop, it
does offer one more options. Btw, Rick, you are on not one but two
lifetime pensions, and you want a third? My spouse appreciates in her class many
valuable retired volunteers.
At the risk of sounding harsh, this proves that our children are being
"educated" by people with no common sense. I respect many good teachers
but many administrators have lost their way. Life is made up of story problems.
Not enough graduates from the teaching colleges and too many leaving the the
field soon after they start tells a story. Teaching has always paid poorly
compared to many other professions. Teaching has always attracted those who want
to help future generations more than they want to amass wealth. But the system
is broken; the joy is gone.A teacher is expected to watch every word
they say, never uttering the wrong opinion in front of the children. They are
scrutinized in their personal lives. They are expected to maintain classroom
order without traditional disciplinary methods and without support from
administration or parents.Many children raised in our media-rich,
constantly-active world don't learn well in a traditional classroom
environment. We need to individualize the experience. It is time for a complete
overhaul of the system because it is broken - both teachers and students know
it.What exactly is the attraction for these "experts" to
join the fray?
This is completely ridiculous. Utah needs to wake up. The legislature is working
to get more people into teaching by making it easier for professionals to get in
the classroom. Great! But why don't we try to keep teachers by actually
paying them what they are worth? Increasing teacher pay will keep teachers in
the classroom. Many citizens of Utah are so worried about increased taxes and
having to pay more for education - but you can't get quality teachers who
stay unless you are willing to pay them, and that needs to come out of the
pockets of our citizens. We moved here from NJ where our property taxes on a
similar sized house were $12,000 a year. And there were school fees also. And
teachers were paid double what they are paid here - with smaller class sizes.
And they made it a lifelong career. We moved here, are paying $2700 for property
taxes, and I constantly hear people in my community whine about the problems of
education. Utah citizens need to suck it up and open their pockets for the
quality education they want.
I am a retired naval officer with a BS in math and physics, I have a masters in
Computer Science. After a 23 year military career, I became a licensed math
teacher and taught in CA high schools for 20 years. Moved back home to Utah, and
6 months latter I decided I wanted back into the classroom. Utah not only would
not honor my CA teaching credential but said I had to go back to school for 12
semester credits. No thanks, I didn't need to work, only wanted to help
Free market at work. Treat teacher like crud...and you will soon find you are
out of teachers.If I were to quit my industry job and teach as the
article suggests I can, my salary would be cut in more than half. So...i am not
sure this will help much.
This is hilarious. Now they think they are going to tap into all of the
unemployed engineers to come teach math in Utah for $35,000 a year?At our school we have had about 5 people on the alternative route to licensure
plan. Not one of them has followed through on the requirements to get a license
and then they quit after year 3. Guess who ends up having to train yet another
new teacher year after year?That is right, it is me. The regular
classroom teacher. For no added pay or benefits, I get to train and monitor a
new teacher year after year. This burdens my already overloaded schedule and
drains my enthusiasm for the job. This seems like a great idea on
paper, but it isn't going to change things one bit.It is time
to face the fact that if we want more teachers, we are going to have to pay them
a decent salary.I put this idea into the "swing and a miss"