To RRB From the American Plastics Industry, plastic takes 10 years, possibly
more to decompose. The decomposition is highly dependent on its exposure to the
sun.People think paper products will decompose in a month or 2, yet
ignore the fact that if you dig in many landfills you can pull out Newspapers
that are 50 years old and be able to read them.As I mentioned, newer
plastic bags can be made using biodegradable plastics that meet current ASTM
standards and have decomposed down to 10% of its original weight after 12
weeks.There are plastic solutions
@redshirtFrom Cleveland University. Did You Know? Here’s
How Long it Takes for Certain Products to Decompose•Banana Peel: 3-4
weeks•Paper Bag: 1 month•Cardboard: 2 months•Wool Sock: 1 year•Tinned Steel Can: 50 years•Aluminum Can: 200-500 years (But if recycled, it can be reused within 6
weeks!)•Disposable Diapers: 550 years•Plastic Bags :
20-1,000 years•Plastic Jug: 1 million years•Glass: 1-2
million years•Styrofoam: 1+ million years
I would also add that when some cities in CA first initiated the ban, stores
(Example--Albertsons) gave cloth bags to shoppers at no-charge for a limited
amount of time. As for poor people riding the bus with their
groceries--i'm guessing many use their own bags already since the plastic
bags are prone to breaking. On the other hand--what a great Relief
Society project--making canvas bags and donating them to the poor!
To "Baron Scarpia" tell us where a landfill is located on "prime
real estate"?Every landfill I have ever seen is located in a
place far away from "prime real estate".While you find that,
tell us how using a plastic bag you get at the grocery store as a garbage can
liner is any different than buying a garbage bag liner and throwing those away?
The point is MOST grocery bags are not used once, but are at least twice. That
second use often is as a garbage bag, which actually CUTS down on the need for
buying and manufacturing more garbage bags out of plastic.To
"VIDAR" done. It is called a "burn" plant. But your ilk
doesn't like that either.To "RRB" but paper bags use
more energy to produce, making them LESS environmentally friendly. Also, you
are ignoring the fact that if left in the sun a grocery bag can decompose in 10
years, or if it is made out of biodegradable plastic it goes away much faster.
The sad thing is PAPER takes up more space in landfills and does not decompose
like the newer plastic bags.
SmBus,How many bags do you think the average family brings home when
they get back from a week's shopping? Of course they're not using a
bag a day, but they could very well be using 6 bags a week.I
don't know what the solution is, but plastic bags really are a problem.
They're the most difficult to recycle, which is why they're hardly
ever accepted anymore, and the number of bags getting thrown out is
tremendous.As to why Democrats often resort to taxes to solve
problems: they do it because they realize (as do Republicans) social behavior
is most quickly changed by money matters. SayNo,"A cut of
meat leaking juices into a cloth bag turn it into a Petri dish." What do you do with your cloth shirt when it gets meat juice on it? The bags
are made out of cloth--wash them.
"California that banned plastic bags outright was repealed last November by
referendum"Not quite, not repealed. The approval of a
referendum means the law is suspended until a ballot measure is voted on in the
November 2016 election. In the meantime, many CA cities--affecting a majority
of the population in CA--have already enacted bag bans, beginning in 2012. I've been using canvas bags for awhile and won't go back to
plastic. The plastic bags were annoying--breaking if they were too heavy. Now
I can carry twice as much and make fewer trips from the car. I've always
put meat in small plastic bags provided in the meat/produce dept. so no
contamination worries and I do launder the bags occasionally. Target deducts cents from my bill for bringing my own bags. Really not a big deal. And if it helps marine life and the environment, all
It amazes me that conservatives in Utah cannot see beyond the present. They
love Costco and guess what. They don't have bags!! You will survive.
I live in Beijing China where they have charged for plastic bags at supermarkets
for a number of years. If you need one, the fee is about 3cents (USD) per bag.
I have lots of fun, colorful fabric bags that I use when I go to the market
here. I also have them at our cabin in UT....and when I show up at Smith's
& Walmart...they give me a 5cent CREDIT for every I have with me!It is not an inconvenience to bring them with you...once you develop the
habit.....it's all about changing your mindset (IMO)
Yeah. I'm prepared. It's really easy. In fact, it seems kind of
selfish not to.
Who reimburses the merchants for the accounting costs? I work in retail I.T. and
political pipe dreams like this cost merchants a lot of money and time.If the bags are a problem for recycling plants then someone should be putting
some effort into educating the public about what items should and should not go
into recycling bins.
Paper bags are renewable, and they decompose in a very short time.
What about poor people? How are they supposed to pay this new bag tax? Are they
supposed to make the choice of buying food or bags to carry that food home on
the bus? Just like a wealthy politician to forget about the poor.
To Utah Think Box,What global warming? It's called weather.
That is a liberal fraud to tax everything that moves and everything that
doesn't move as well. As far as inversion goes it has been far worse here
in the Salt Lake Valley in the past. You have a valley between two mountain
ranges it traps everything between those ranges and only a nice wind will clean
it out. Back when residents source of heating homes was coal and wood stoves
the inversion was worse.As far as Jani's bill is concerned it
is a burden on the poor. Regardless of the cost it doesn't affect the well
off but has an adverse affect on the poor.
Expend the effort... and the taxes...where it's most needed."A 2015 law in California that banned plastic bags outright was repealed
last November by referendum, but multiple cities across the state adopted their
own ordinances imposing a 10-cent fee on plastic bags. Counties in Hawaii have
instituted bans or taxes and the issue has been on the table in New York and New
Jersey. Other countries, like Ireland, began assessing a fee on plastic bags in
2002 ."Cities located along the ocean and cities whose waterways
empty into the oceans must have plans like this. These cities absolutely must
be in the business of protecting the denizens of the sea from plastic,
especially bags. Plastic bags are deadly to many fish and marine mammals,
especially the young… and large turtles as well. The Great
Salt Lake has no denizens that need protecting. The brine shrimp are expendable!
SmBus said, "Have you thrown your plastic bag away today? Another
liberal solution to a non-problem! If we wanted to be California or Hawaii we
could move there. 940 million bags would mean the average Utahn throws away 313
bags per year."Good comment and thanks for doing the math!Here's some more math, If Utahns do use 940 million
bags a year, this little tax would bring in the trivial sum of $94 million a
year. That's a nice chunk of change!Why do these Legislators
think nobody will notice such costs/impacts with their proposals as this?Here's an idea; Reengineer the plastic used in these and garbage
bags to not get caught in the machinery. In other words, orient the plastic to
rip easily in one direction so that machines can easily tear the plastic away
from the garbage it contains... for recycling... and enable the machines to be
self cleaning, to boot.
Baron Scarpia,You should probably stick to things you know about,
and the cost of recycling vs throwing something away is not one of them.Who buys our baled "recyclable" goods in bulk, what processes do
they use to recycle them, how much does it cost (to pockets and to the
environment), and how much do we end up paying in order to feel good about doing
our part for the environment? Do you know the answer to any of these
questions?Here's a partial answer--the Chinese buy a huge chunk
of our recyclables. They process it and ship it right back to sell to us. What
nation is also accelerating its greenhouse gas production more than any other
country? What nation doesn't have the EPA regulating industry? Why would
it be cheaper to ship recyclables across the ocean and back?Recycling is prohibitively expensive and much more environmentally destructive
than most would guess. Why do we do it? My guess it it's largely
The first time I saw one of these kinds of one-time plastic bags was in 1970 in
Sweden, where they were invented several years earlier by Sten Gustaf Thulin.
My first thought was, "These things are very handy but, being plastic and
practically non-degradable, are going to be causing all sorts of environmental
problems."Since that time the material has been refined so the
degradation process is vastly accelerated when it's not recycled, something
that is actually very easy to do. But, judging from the uproar by some, this is
not enough.My solution is simply to collect them and, every few
months, return them to the many recycle bins in supermarkets during my regular
shopping excursions. It seems to be a win/win scenario. I retain the
convenience and still facilitate recycling of the material.
One day someone will invent a way to get energy out of garbage and plastic bags
and land fills will be like oil fields.
Lots of attacks on liberal thinking here. Let's consider conservative
thinking for a moment -- or how about conservative "non thinking."So here's a way to eliminate those convenient but pesky plastic
bags that clog our landfills by charging for them. I keep hearing from
conservatives that recycling is a waste of tax dollars and that charging for
throw-away bags is a tax. And yet, dumping trash and plastic bags
on prime real estate is their "cost effective alternative -- and guess what,
our tax dollars pay for the landfills! Yes, someone has be pay for the
municipal landfill real estate, and it is the tax payer -- often costing
multi-millions of dollars, upfront! So here's the
conservatives' "non thinking:" Dumping trash into landfills is more
cost effective than recycling because our tax dollars pay for the landfills!
We occasionally shop at WINCO where you bag your own groceries with your choice
of a paper grocery bag or a plastic one. The cost for each is factored into the
store's cost of doing business. No need for a special "bag fee".
If you wish to use a canvas shopping mag, more power to you. But please do not
force me to pay an additional tax (yes, that is what it really is) when I go to
the store.I reuse the bags that I get to hold the trash in the small
trash cans in the house. Any I do not reuse for this purpose, or any other
purpose, are taken back to the store where they are supposedly recycled.Please stop with all of this "education" or "for the
children" talk. That is like banging on a drum that has seen it's
useful life expire 20 years ago.
But it's so beautiful to see ragged plastic bags flapping the breeze from
trees and fences throughout the state. And nation, for that matter.The resistance to anything that might help solve the trashing of America is
one more example of the Conservative Entitlement Mentality. "I want what I
want because I want it and don't ask me to pay for it!"
Why is it that liberals always seem to think that they can make ideas that have
failed elsewhere work for now. They tried this in Dallas and it resulted in lost
revenue to retailers to the point where it was rescinded. Retailers will adhere
at first and then when their customers start complaining, they'll find ways
around it to the point that it becomes unenforceable.
I like Harmons for this very reason. If you bring your own bag, they give you
.05cents off. If you forget the bag, you can STILL get a plastic, or paper bag
at no additional charge, but their policy DOES give you a little incentive to
save on plastic bags.NO NEED to make plastic bags MANDATORY
though!In England you MUST bring your own bag, (or buy one from
them, 1.50 or so), but what I saw was people forgetting their bags, and they
would just take their stuff to their car in their cart; which made for some
"droppage", and glass breaking all over the parking lot.
surely we can implement this and in the meantime, some entrepreneur can develop
a fast decomposable?
I hate seeing plastic bags on the side of the road, in the hills, blowing in the
wind, etc.... Half life of 10,000 years?
What is really funny is that pushing people to use reusable bags will make their
health worse.Read "Eww, reusable grocery bags' germs can
make you sick" in USAToday.
Have you thrown your plastic bag away today? Another liberal solution to a
non-problem! If we wanted to be California or Hawaii we could move there. 940
million bags would mean the average Utahian throws away 313 bags per year.
That's one bag a day with taking Sunday off as a day for bag-rest!
Fabricated numbers by liberals is just part of their game to control and take
your money. There has never been a tax that a liberal did not want to
'educate' us over. Is this like the "re-education camps"
following the Vietnam War? Oh, to be a liberal and know what is good for
everyone so let's "educate" them. Next Sen. Iwamoto will want to
'educate' us about how we are filling up the land fills with plastic
water bottles and newspapers. Does Donald Trump ring a bell with the good
Reusable bags are not without their problems.A cut of meat leaking juices
into a cloth bag turn it into a Petri dish. Yum.
Of all the pressing problems and core functions of government that are poorly
carried out...why are we even wasting time on this nonsense?
Instead of griping about this, why not just simply purchase reusable canvas bags
that you can take again and again? Decorate them at a RS activity.
Sen. Jani Iwamoto, D-Holladay ... I don't think 10¢ is enough, I think
it should be 25¢ or 30¢, maybe even 50¢! We need to social
engineer those people into doing what is 'Right'! She also needs to
put a rider on that bill, a new EBT card that pays for the bags because an EBT
card is only for food, or a notation that those using an EBT card get the bags
for free ... I'll keep thinking through this part.Sarcasm off
... Charging another tax, which is what our Governments love to do, does nothing
more than take money from people who need it most. All of the past tax increases
have been under the justifications of: For the children, or For the earth, or
because we have not raised it in years.Get out of my pockets! I am
tired of working to pay your 'Nickle & Dime' taxes everywhere I
Which is really better?? Our practice is to get our groceries in paper bags,
which are more biodegradable than plastic bags. We then use those bags for
garbage. Because of the law in CA, in our home there, we use reusable bags to
get groceries, but at home we then have to use plastic can liners for garbage.
So in CA, our garbage goes out in plastic bags, when previously it went to the
landfill in paper bags. Which is really better for the landfill?
Socialism sticking its ugly head into our pockets, again!! Just like
a liberal - find something they dislike and impose the cost of a non-resolution
on society. If you want to educate society and change a little norm
like this fine. But, do it on your own dime. Don't make all of society pay
for your pet peeve. The problem is exaggerated than they make it
sound, of course.
When business people use government for laws that favor business they are acting
in a most un-American way. Enhancing the predatory nature of business is not
consistent with the notion of Equal Justice for All. Government
should first be a protector of its citizens, and the greatest need for
protection is from business. Even though government favors business, the number
of regulations to protect the consumer far exceeds the number of laws and
regulation for all other needs. And is still inadequate to prevent criminal
businessmen from cheating the consumer. Business spends billions of
dollars to find ways to cheat, would it be asking too much for them to find a
better way to package and hold their product rather than just using the
cheapest. Procuradorfiscal.I don’t think that Sen. Jani
Iwamoto, D-Holladay or her bill is liberal.
Why does talk about helping the environment become a liberal versus conservative
issue. Lets all just pray that global warming and our inversion just go away.
I'm sure that will work.
Typical Democrat approach: Fix problems with a tax.
While residing in Sweden we paid the equivilant of 15 cents for a plastic bag,
but the bags were sturdier and we returned time and time again with our old bags
because they lasted. While we learned to reuse our grocery bags, Sweden also
required trash to be tied in one of those plastic bags when disposing of trash
and garbage. Sort of neutralized the intent of eliminating plastic in the
landfill. Typical thinking of the unthinking.
Re: ". . . Iwamoto said something has to be done — and her bill is
more about education than anything."Yeah, that's what
passes for deep thought among liberals -- they run about bleating that something
has to be done, but that something is almost always annoying, silly,
counterproductive, and fails to address the real issue.Well, at
least it IS educational -- we're all becoming educated on the danger
liberalism poses to America.