10th Circuit grants injunction against Herbert in Planned Parenthood case

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  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Jan. 4, 2016 12:06 p.m.

    Tanto says:

    "Groups that kills babies should NOT receive tax payer monies. Period!"

    --- That would include the US Military.

    @Riverton Cougar:

    "Mathhew 18: 5-6
    "5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
    6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

    --- Where were your complaints against the LDS church throwing out the children of LGBT couples?

    @christoph;

    Utah adheres to the FEDERAL Constitution.

    @Anti Bush-Obama;

    The "Nephites", like Harry Potter are fictional.

    @cjb;

    A woman's body is HERS, not the fetus'.

    @Rikitikitavi;

    Saying Herbert and "wise" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Jan. 4, 2016 11:13 a.m.

    @B.A.B/Marlboro
    Do you have any idea what side of the abortion issue a huge majority of Utah voters stand? Leave religion out of the dialogue. Gov. Herbert wisely sides with the overwhelming sentiments of his electorate.

  • AuContrariusiest mid-state, TN
    Jan. 1, 2016 8:44 a.m.

    @Riverton Cougar --

    "Fact check."

    Good idea.

    From Factcheck: "Several Republican presidential candidates have claimed that Planned Parenthood is 'profiting' from abortions. But the full, unedited video they cite as evidence shows a Planned Parenthood executive repeatedly saying its clinics want to cover their costs, not make money, when donating fetal tissue from abortions for scientific research."

    "Four experts in the field of human tissue procurement told us the price range discussed in the video -- $30 to $100 per patient -- represents a reasonable fee. 'There's no way there's a profit at that price,' said Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University and Brigham and Women's Hospital's 'biorepository.'"

    "Jim Vaught, president of the International Society for Biological and Environmental Repositories and formerly the deputy director of the National Cancer Institute's Office of Biorepositories and Biospecimen Research, told us in an email that '$30 to $100 per sample is a reasonable charge for clinical operations to recover their costs for providing tissue.' In fact, he said, the costs to a clinic are often much higher, but most operations that provide this kind of tissue have 'no intention of fully recovering [their] costs, much less making a profit.'"

    You were saying?

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 7:42 p.m.

    This is a contractual law issue. The State of Utah has a contract with the Federal government to pass through funds that the state is required to do under contract with Planned Parenthood for services rendered. It is a moral issue, but the State of Utah entered into the contract with Planned Parenthood due to the State's benefit for the contract. The State, at some previous time, decided to enter into this contract.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 7:34 p.m.

    @riverton cougar
    "Fact check."

    I provided the name of the district court, the ruling judge and the case number as proof that CMP is refusing to produce the raw video.

    A search on "CMP 5th Amendment" brings up many, many stories with the same details.

    If you have other sources showing that CMP has finally produced the evidence as ordered, citing those sources would do volumes for credibility.

  • mrjj69 bountiful, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 4:52 p.m.

    Of course Herbert will lose. a STATE governor, has no right to withhold FEDERAL funds.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 3:51 p.m.

    "100% false. CMP has never released the source video. They have released short edited versions and long edited versions, but have not released the raw, unedited footage. In fact, they are fighting desperately to prevent the raw video from being released."

    Fact check.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    Dec. 31, 2015 3:43 p.m.

    @Lyn 52 writes, "Gov Herbert should of done some investigating before deciding to shut off funds to PP."

    I can guarantee you that Gov Herbert consulted with his advisers and they all concluded that he could score points with the low-information voters-- just like he did when he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of state money on appealing Judge Shelby's ruling--all the while knowing that it was fruitless.

    The Gov knows which side of the bread the butter is on. Take a look at his actions on the prison move issue.

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Dec. 31, 2015 3:11 p.m.

    @cjb --

    "Any organization that makes money killing babies..."

    Since Planned Parenthood doesn't kill babies, you should have no trouble tolerating them.

    Fetuses are not babies.

    "Any why it is required that our tax dollars go to such an organization is really beyond belief."

    It's beyond belief that my tax dollars go to subsidizing strip mining.

    "The baby that a woman carries is not her body."

    First, it isn't a baby -- it's a fetus.

    Second -- please explain why that fetus is not the woman's body.

    You can't use DNA as your reasoning -- as I've explained multiple times in other threads, chimeras also have two distinct sets of DNA within their own bodies.

    You can't use "future human" as your reasoning -- we can clone any cell in the body and develop it into a human.

    You can't use "it acquires a soul at conception" as your reasoning -- if a embryo acquires a soul at conception, then identical twins (who split after conception) only have half a soul each; and chimeras (from two embryos that fuse after conception) have TWO souls within one body.

    So, please -- what is your reasoning? Be specific.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 2:41 p.m.

    re marxist

    The baby that a woman carries is not her body.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 2:28 p.m.

    @riverton cougar
    "The company's website...has them in full."

    100% false. CMP has never released the source video. They have released short edited versions and long edited versions, but have not released the raw, unedited footage. In fact, they are fighting desperately to prevent the raw video from being released.

    As part of a lawsuit in California Northern district (case number 3:15-cv-03522), they were ordered by a US District Judge Orrick to produce the raw, unedited video. They refused, and attempted to invoke 5th amendment protections to avoid releasing that footage. The judge has ruled that 5th amendment protections do no apply to producing evidence, only when testifying.

    The release of the raw, unedited footage is still pending.

    So why would an organization rush to release heavily edited videos, but hesitate to release the raw footage? Perhaps the raw video doesn't paint the picture they desired to paint.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 2:27 p.m.

    @cjb "Any organization that makes money killing babies shouldn't be tolerated period. Any why it is required that our tax dollars go to such an organization is really beyond belief."

    Planned parenthood believes what a woman does with her body is her decision. That is my view as well.

    I don't believe a woman should have an abortion of a viable fetus out of convenience. But it is her choice. There are circumstances when abortion is justified, such as when the pregnancy has happened against the will of the woman.

    Women like Planned Parenthood because that organization puts their interests first. That's why substitutes for PP are hard to find.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 1:44 p.m.

    Any organization that makes money killing babies shouldn't be tolerated period. Any why it is required that our tax dollars go to such an organization is really beyond belief.

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Dec. 31, 2015 1:44 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar --

    "...(Center for Medical Progress) is the top result and has them in full."

    You are taking the CMP's own word that they're complete and unedited, when both forensics companies say otherwise?

    Seriously?

    "...people are discussing the right to kill babies!?"

    Yet again -- US abortion rates are at a 40-year LOW.

    Keep trying.

    "media is more violent and suggestive, etc."

    Again -- seriously? Both violent and nonviolent crime are down, but you're upset because you think *media* is too violent?

    Which is worse -- watching a violent video, or watching a real-life blood match? Playing a violent videogame, or taking a real gun and killing real people?

    Real life violence is down, but you think the world is falling apart because the *pretend* violence is up?

    "the babies dependent on others for a while after they're born"

    Yes -- OTHERS. After the point of viability, **anyone** can raise that baby. It is no longer dependent on the pregnant woman's body. But before viability, it has NO independent existence.

    "And they are viable quite soon. "

    No. Viability is only reached after about 24 weeks. And less than 1% of all abortions are performed after 20 weeks.

  • Summit Park City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 1:31 p.m.

    Planned Parenthood could be of great help to society, but has instead become a thorn in societies side. Some of what they do is good. Some of it is very bad. Perhaps Planned Parenthood could evaluate and change for the better.

    Good for Gov. Herbert and Judge Waddoups in their actions. They appear to reflect what the people of Utah want. Hopefully, those actions will be upheld as this moves forward.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 1:07 p.m.

    "Where? Please point out exactly where they can be found and exactly who has seen them."

    It literally took me less than a minute to find them using a search engine. The company's website (Center for Medical Progress) is the top result and has them in full. I can't vouch for who has seen them, but no doubt they are available. I have a pretty good idea of who hasn't seen them, though.

    "Where is the evidence of this 'low moral fiber' of which you speak? Please be specific."

    You're asking me this on a comment section where people are discussing the right to kill babies!? Priceless. But if you need more examples, pornography is more available and sought after, definition of marriage is being defiled, media is more violent and suggestive, etc.

    "Until viability, fetuses don't have any existence independent of the pregnant woman, just like her own pinky finger."

    Aren't the babies dependent on others for a while after they're born, too? And they are viable quite soon. But even then, being dependent does make one less human.

    And do you honestly think PP is not spending more for abortions?

  • MGoodwin Murray/USA, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 1:01 p.m.

    I watched the videos, they weren't as edited as planned parenthood supporters would like to believe. Regardless, I am curious as to where exactly in the law the government has no choice but to fund a private organization? The contract was set to expire today, so how do they have standing to demand payment continue without interference? I didn't know we lived in such a time when the states have no choice but to provide contracts to certain politically connected organizations, but here we are.

    I certainly hope the 10th circuit isn't going to side with planned parenthood, but I won't be surprised if they do, the rampant corruption has spread to all levels of government, and no one is more protected than the people who write the biggest checks to the people in power.

  • The Real Maverick Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 12:12 p.m.

    Am I living in a fantasy nightmare here?

    Why do so many low information posters still believe that PP performs abortions for profit? Or that tax dollars go for abortions? Or that abortion isn't legal? It is. Sorry!

    If you don't like abortion being legal please move to a country that doesn't allow women to vote or is ruled by a theocracy. But here in America women have rights. One of them is whether they want to give birth to someone's child or not.

    If you don't like abortion then please support health care, birth control, and education! And by all means, don't want an abortion, DON'T GET ONE! Just like if I don't want to drink coffee I can use my free agency to choose to not drink coffee!

    Funny how freedom works!

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Dec. 31, 2015 12:10 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar --

    "The full videos are available."

    Where? Please point out exactly where they can be found and exactly who has seen them.

    The videos shown to BOTH forensics companies were edited. That's a verifiable fact.

    "The moral fiber in society is at an all-time low."

    Both nonviolent and violent crimes in the US have been falling for two decades. US abortion rates are at a 40-year low. Cop-killings are at historic lows. Even executions are down.

    Where is the evidence of this "low moral fiber" of which you speak? Please be specific.

    "Saying that fetuses aren't living"

    Of course fetuses are living -- so is your pinky finger. But fetuses are not children. Fetuses are not babies.

    Until viability, fetuses don't have any existence independent of the pregnant woman, just like her own pinky finger.

    "And saying "not a penny goes to abortion" isn't a valid argument. "

    Of course it is. The fact that it isn't valid to YOU doesn't change reality. In fact, the funds that Utah has tried to deny to PP were funding sex education and STD testing. Oooo, we wouldn't want any of THAT, now, would we?

  • hockeymom Highland, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 11:36 a.m.

    @Contrarius, er, iest, iestier, AuContrar,etc.

    "The Bible itself -- Numbers 5: 17-31 -- describes God advising priests on how to induce abortions in unfaithful women. So please stop pretending that the Bible supports your anti-abortion view."

    Didn't know you were such a gifted bible scholar. Actually, I didn't read anything in the passage you offered that would suggest this is some kind of abortion ritual, maybe instead a way to cleanse....jealousy? If you can induce a miscarriage via drinking dusty water, I would be very surprised. Better try and back that up with some science.

    Let's look instead at Commandments 1 & 6. #1 commands "No other Gods before me" which would include anyone or anything which man puts above God. Like the worship/defense of all things Planned Parenthood, for example or the justification to snuff out one of God's creations. #6 "Thou shalt not kill" is exactly where the Bible supports an anti-abortion view. Science is catching up on fetal development re: brain activity and when pain is registered, etc. which will validate what people with a conscience have been saying all along. Abortion is murder. Inside or outside the mother's body - it's the same.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 11:19 a.m.

    @Contrarius

    The full videos are available. Please don't pretend that they're not. Yes, there were videos edited for length, but the full videos are available.

    The moral fiber in society is at an all-time low. It's funny that Democrats defended slavery as well. Yes, slavery was legal. Did that make it right? No. Abortion is legal, but it is definitely not right.

    Saying that fetuses aren't living is like calling slaves less than a person. We all know it's not true, but the liberals just want to justify their actions. In the 1800s Democrats would probably have thought freeing slaves was taking away their right to own slaves. Now they say making abortion illegal takes away a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.

    And saying "not a penny goes to abortion" isn't a valid argument. You can donate to a school saying not a penny should go to sports, but having that extra funding frees up the school to fund sports with its own money.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 31, 2015 11:10 a.m.

    Making us pay to enable abortions is like asking a hindu to pay taxes to support a Steakhouse.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 31, 2015 11:09 a.m.

    Eliyahu.

    The Nephites had 400 years of peace with little to no Government Intervention. Righteous People can Govern themselves and not be treated like babies by a rouge nanny state.

    No taxes can go a long way if people are righteous enough for it. Simple as that.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 10:52 a.m.

    Abortion is not the issue.

    The issue of funding is not the actual issue - although cutting off funding without following proper procedures is part of the real issue.

    The issue is contract law. Planned Parenthood and the State of Utah presumably had a contract. Planned Parenthood would receive federal "pass through" funds in exchange for performing certain services in Utah. I do not believe anyone has alleged they did not perform those services. Gov. Herbert, by ordering the state to not pay those funds to Planned Parenthood, has probably breached the contract. All contracts have termination clauses, i.e. ways for either party to end the contract. Gov. Herbert's order seems to have not followed those processes.

  • Truth & Light Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 10:34 a.m.

    Religious functionaries running a muck pretending to be politicians. Utah, what a state.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 10:23 a.m.

    Republican claims to be concerned with "the sanctity of life" are hollow and hypocritical. Look at how they treat mothers and children in their budgets.

    Planned Parenthood, through its women's healthcare services, does more to promote a genuine pro-life culture than any Republican chest-thumper.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 10:15 a.m.

    Utah believes in state rights; not in a court in Denver telling us how to spend money. Herbert is a great hero of our day, and to say no to $20 million for homelessness is also good. (He is willing to allot $6 million I believe) For centuries people have had parents and grandparents warn them of living the dangerous lifestyle, of the poverty that comes from having children outside wedlock, and to believe in personal responsibility. Money is not the answer to these things. Personal responsibility. And if you fall on hard times, go to your uncle, rabbi, priest, parent, cousin, teacher, neighbor for help; community will help you, family will help you. These problems are family problems, not money problems.

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Dec. 31, 2015 9:59 a.m.

    @Riverton Cougar --

    "The group also put out the original, unedited videos."

    No they didn't. The videos shown to BOTH forensics companies were edited.

    "Mathhew 18: 5-6"

    Matthew was talking about -- guess what -- CHILDREN.

    Fetuses are not children.

    Yet again -- please provide ANY Bible passage that condemns abortion.

    The Bible itself -- Numbers 5: 17-31 -- describes God advising priests on how to induce abortions in unfaithful women. So please stop pretending that the Bible supports your anti-abortion view. It doesn't.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 9:47 a.m.

    "The videos were so heavily edited, with overt intent to deceive. That's now established."

    Established by Planned Parenthood. The group also put out the original, unedited videos. The only people saying it is to deceive is Planned Parenthood and those foolish enough to believe them.

    It is sickening to see such disrespect of human life.

    Mathhew 18: 5-6
    "5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

    6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

    Not my words.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 9:34 a.m.

    Good. Herbert was just doing this as cheap political opportunism.

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 9:14 a.m.

    What one would expect from the disgustingly liberal 10th Circuit.

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 8:29 a.m.

    @Anti Bush-Obama
    Chihuahua, 00

    "I want no taxes period. Big Government limits personal growth..."

    First of all, if you are indeed living in Chihuahua, the taxes we pay here in the US are none of your business. Other than that, paying taxes is part of living in a civilized community. They pay for the roads on which we drive, the police and fire departments that protect our safety, public health services, and many of the necessities of life. Anarchy may be your life's dream, but most of us prefer a civilized state in which to live. A look at Africa will show you several failed states in which there is neither government nor taxes. Whomever has the most and biggest guns there rules, and they will "limit your personal growth" much more than government ever will. When scriptures tell us "There was no king in those days and ever man did what was right in his own eyes," it isn't describing an idyllic paradise. It's describing a time of fear and terrorism.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 8:02 a.m.

    The videos were so heavily edited, with overt intent to deceive. That's now established.

    Multiple states have independently and separately investigated PP and found no evidence of illegal activity.

    It is now abundantly clear that our governor's attacks on Planned Parenthood are a merely a craven political appeal to the willfully ignorant GOP base. That's all it is.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 31, 2015 7:43 a.m.

    The taxes are still enabling abortions. I dont want my taxes going towards abortion enabling or war. I want no taxes period. Big Government limits personal growth and I dont want to be in Kindergarten all my life which Big Government surely treats us as if were are children.

  • Bob A. Bohey Marlborough, MA
    Dec. 31, 2015 7:21 a.m.

    If the state of UT. attempts to legislate religious beliefs into secular law you can take it to the bank that said law(s) are legally and morally wrong.

  • Lyn52 Saint George, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 7:14 a.m.

    Other states who have investigated PP have found no wrong doing. Gov Herbert should of done some investigating before deciding to shut off funds to PP.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Dec. 31, 2015 4:54 a.m.

    @samhill 8:43 p.m. Dec. 30, 2015

    The funds in question have nothing to do with the "sanctity of human life" unless, of course you think that contraception, sex education (including how to keep from getting pregnant), STD testing and cancer screening threaten "the sanctity of human life."

    It's sad that you were deluded by selectively and duplicitously altered videos. As has been shown by investigations conducted by a number of states and agencies, PP did nothing wrong. The federal money going to PP is for good purposes to an organization that works for the sanctity of life for women (the actual lives in being in the equation). People who want to keep the money from PP act to hurt those actual lives in being (as stated by Utah agencies, even if funding goes to other clinics, there are not enough medical clinics to take over their care of the PP funding is stopped).

    Thankfully the 10th Circuit ruled in accordance with the law and for the benefit of the actual lives in being (the men and women needing the funding) and issued their very correct ruling.

  • Tanto Slc, UT
    Dec. 30, 2015 11:02 p.m.

    Groups that kills babies should NOT receive tax payer monies. Period!

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 30, 2015 10:40 p.m.

    This shows that Herbert's knee jerk reaction was just that. His decision could cause thousands of poor Utah women and even men to lose the valuable health care that they receive at Planned Parenthood. Hopefully Herbert will lose this terrible decision that puts lives at risk.

    Abortion isn't always a good answer, but that is not what one dime of these funds goes for. Those who rail against Planned Parenthood have no educated understanding what this organization really does.

    Planned parenthood has been shown to actually reduce the abortion rate through education and programs that help people stop unwanted pregnancies.

    And whether any of us like it, it is none of our business what any women does with her own body. Surely not my business, and definitely the business of those who scream the loudest about this issue.

    Planned Parenthood is one of the largest health providers for women in this state. BTW where is Herbert's expansion of Medicaid to help the poor? Yet another GOP failure at the expense of the poor and uninsured.