The discussion about evolution is a red herring. Can those evolutionists who
believe sex is all just a natural thing developed over eons of time become
addicted to porn? Absolutely, just as anyone else can.The discussion about
art vs. porn is also a red herring. One can lust after Michelangelo's
"David", another can see it as a classic work of art.Over time,
we’ve had various works of art in the Springville Art Museum. Our teachers
taught us to appreciate them as a works of art--though a few students knew where
to get pornographic material if they wanted to. Most of us just knew the
difference between the artworks and material that promoted experimentation of a
sexual nature. Sometimes various sections of society will go to extremes
to protect others. But a group that is promoting making good individual choices
is to be praised. If that's the approach the Porn Kills Love group is
taking, more power to them.I wish we had more celebs like Carmen was that
would hold standards high. Maybe members of this group will set like examples
with their peers.
I'm with Jeanie. I know from personal experience the porn kills
love. It takes something sacred and beautiful and throws it in the trash. The
human body is beautiful and a gift that we should treat with reverence,
realizing that it's not an object, but belongs to a feeling, living soul.
Unfortunately, many in society treat it exactly opposite and mock what should
never be mocked.As the article states:"Sex without love —
especially the kind pornography promotes — is so damaging because it bonds
an individual to an act rather than a person." It devalues people by turning
them into objects to be selfishly used.
What to me is the great evidence that we are the offspring of God, is that we
possess the power to act like animals or to act like deity. No other life form
on this planet has that limitless capability. Over and over again, we have
proven our capacity to reach immense hights as well as immense depravity. Our
abilities are limitless in both directions. The direction we move is welded to
who's voice we follow and divine agency we possess.
Kudos to Ms. Herbert for standing up for decency and mental health.
@The Caravan Moves On --"Let those who use pornography now say
what they want, I know the truth."It's a chicken-and-egg
question. Did you ever stop to ask whether the porn was actually the *cause* of
your marriage difficulties, or merely a *symptom* of them?
Does pornography diminish true love?Without a doubt, yes.How do I know?Because I was once in to it (pornography) pretty
heavy. The effect it had on my marriage was not a good one. Let me repeat
that: the effect it had on my marriage, my tenderness and affection towards my
wife, was NOT good.Let those who use pornography now say what they
want, I know the truth.
@Jeanie, I have to respectfully disagree with you. You say,
"The beauty of the human form has - nothing - to do with porn." I sincerely believe and perhaps a large segment of the Male readers here
would a agree that, Physically Unattractive Females have no career in the Adult
Film industry. Call it Lookism. But it is what it is. Sad but true. The Male sex
wants attractive females to view, It's in their biological makeup,
Social/religious programming notwithstanding. Call it the Natural man versus
Man of God Paradox.
@jeanie --"Comparing animal "morality" to human morality
is like comparing a a piece of gravel with the Matterhorn. How is it that humans
have so far outpaced the animal kingdom in every respect?"It's called "evolution"."What was the
astronomical event that propelled our "species" so far in advance of
every other life form? I believe it was that humans are off spring of
God."And that's a fine thing to believe. But here's
the thing: your belief isn't incompatible with evolution. God works in
mysterious ways, remember?"It is exactly the argument that we
are merely evolved animals that seeks to allow for us to behave more like
them."Nope. We are not "merely" anything, and evolution
doesn't say that we are. But the acknowledgment of evolution does allow us
to better understand where our instincts come from, and how they might have been
beneficial in more primitive species even if they are destructive in our more
evolved society."You have the last word, I don't have a lot
of accounts. ;)"Hey -- this is only my second post in this
thread. So There.
Contrarius -Comparing animal "morality" to human morality is
like comparing a a piece of gravel with the Matterhorn. How is it that humans
have so far outpaced the animal kingdom in every respect? What was the
astronomical event that propelled our "species" so far in advance of
every other life form? I believe it was that humans are off spring of God.It is exactly the argument that we are merely evolved animals that seeks
to allow for us to behave more like them. Yes, viewing porn is appetite
fulfillment only and the amount of sexual restraint shown by the average animal
when they are in the mood is really not indicative of the ability human men and
women have - should they exercise it, and they can.You have the last
word, I don't have a lot of accounts. ;)BYU Track Star"First let's define Porn and decide if the Human form is utterly
depraved." You are comparing polar opposites. The beauty of the
human form has - nothing - to do with porn. Porn seeks to satisfy or stir lust
in the viewer. The Getty isn't pushing lust fulfillment. Context is
Now I can see why men are looked upon as dogs. Someone looked upon a woman and
because she is a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN and a talented one, decided to asked her if she
would be willing to pose nude for a magazine if she is offered lots of cash?
Good for you Carmen. Thank you for being strong.
I applaud these people for reaching out to the up and coming generation,
hopefully before they become too entangled with a porn addiction.The
truth of the matter is that we as a society (including our children) are being
bombarded with images of scantily clad women and such on sidebars of computer
screens. Kid's game sites have porn type images on the sidebars, click on
the wrong link and one will find themselves innocently in a realm of porn they
did not intend to visit!Shame on our society for allowing this to go
as far as it has, protect your children. Many kids have a phone in their pocket
and can view these interesting photos that are addictive at any time and get
sucked into an addiction not knowing how to get out. God bless and protect the
children and bless the parents to teach them well, do what they can to set
limits and pay attention. Love you guys.
Deseretina- Why does someone deny the existence of God? What is the cause?
The reality is that our bodies are on loan and bought with a price. We are
responsible for how we treat them. The gift of reproduction is a sacred one -
different from animals, because we are offspring of Deity and because we have
the potential of self-control. When you take animal behavior as your model, you
are degrading yourself. There is no upside besides temporary pleasure. I
don't seek to convince you. The truth would not be the truth if all
accepted it. You are free to make your choices. But, compare the pleasure of
sexual experimentation without commitment to a loving family, with honor and
fidelity in which children need not be ashamed of their parents'
indiscretions. Discipline, self-control, and respect for holiness and love that
exist with committed and faithful families are my goal. Your supposedly healthy
sexual experimentation is simply using the bodies of children of God for selfish
and unholy pleasures. Not good.
@ Big D,I think the Mote in your eye is of your own making. If perchance
you make it down to L.A's Getty Museum, you can have a good gander of the
Mistresses of European Nobility circa 1600. In various forms of undress. Would
you consider this "Soft" Porn? I'm sure to the 17th Century
Nobility , these illustrations were racy. To each his own I suppose.
BYU Track Star,Why have you erroneously conflated any unclothed depiction
of the human form with pornography? Neither the article's author nor FTND
are taking issue with statues of David, Buddha, or fertility figurines. Where
exactly to draw the line for what is appropriate may be up for debate, but to
use the examples that you did to justify your position is pretty ridiculous.Let's see you trot out an example of violent, gratuitous hardcore porn
and then tell everyone it is harmless, healthy, and appropriate.
Can Pornography really kill love? The short answer is no. First let's
define Porn and decide if the Human form is utterly depraved. If the Human form
is depraved, then the Michelangelo's statue of David in Florence, Italy
should be withdrawn from public viewing or at least be Clothed in public. As
playwright, Oscar Wilde observed, "Anything is lewd when properly
viewed". What are we to make of the Neolithic Fertility figurines? Are they
Pornographic and therefore should be destroyed? I think out. Should 2,300 year
old Statutes of a reclining Buddha be deemed pornographic and therefore be
Dynamited. I think not, but the Taliban thought otherwise. Porno, fellow readers
is not the Boggy man for all sundry relationship problems. It is only a piece of
the puzzle. If we are the acme God's creation why did God let us run around
Eden unclothed for so long?
@jeanie --"Religion teaches that we are more than evolved
animals and therefore we are more than our appetites."That's a false dichotomy. There is no contradiction between being an
evolved animal and being more than our appetites.We see the
rudiments of empathy and morality in many nonhuman animals. Check out the book
"The Moral Animal" by Robert Wright for a classic intro to the
evolutionary benefits of morality, and "Good Natured" by Frans de Waal
for an exploration of morality in apes and other species.
I want to add that I do believe my religion at least is doing a better job of
recognizing the inherent challenges in living a sexually disciplined way. While
the doctrines have not changed, abstinence before marriage, complete fidelity
after, the approach is more understanding of our modern challenges and seeks to
help people succeed to live virtuous lives more than shaming them into it.
Deseretina-Thanks for your reply. I understand your perspective, but
disagree."...Recognizing that humans are an evolved species with
inherent sexual urges..."Many people (me included) do not
subscribe to the idea that science has entirely answered the question of what it
means to be human. It is a huge leap to think an animal evolved to the point
that they could construct a "an ethical social framework" for regulating
the propagation of their species. Religion teaches that we are more
than evolved animals and therefore we are more than our appetites. There is
something awesome in the power to create life and when this is the basis of our
beliefs it is not a fantasy to think that we have serious responsibilities
beyond satisfying our appetite. Porn is solely appetite driven.
There is nothing ennobling about it, and it IS destructive unless all we hope to
be is advanced animals.
Thank you for this truthful article. I highly recommend Dr. Donald
Hilton's book "He Restoreth My Soul". He is a neurosurgeon in
Houston TX who is a well-known speaker on this subject. There is no doubt that
pornography does kill love--that the brain is changed by pornography just as
substance abuse affects the brain--and that the brain can change back to normal
as viewing pornography is overcome. Again, thank you for the article and for
how you handled the opportunity to misuse your own body--thank you for your
@goosehuntrThat's equal parts patronizing and dismal.I
appreciate the concern, if that was also intended.
@ DeseretinaI have worked with and for people all my career. You
must be in a micro group of people who really get this "healthy outlook for
teens and adults." Because what I have worked with is the rest of society.
Who I guess aren't informed well enough concerning this outlook. Sorrow
rages through these uninformed children, adults and adolescents. I have worked
with many who claimed excellent sexual health while wrecking relationships of
every kind. They walk through life with a view that no one gets this like I do.
"I am so happy," they say, while the effects of their sexual choices
leave a trail of tears. One day, your perfect understanding of this healthy
outlook will betray you. You may find "happiness" for a season, but by
and by the end will come.
@Cav PilotPassive aggressive contributions aside, the 'fantasy
version of existence' description was less of a defense of pornography than
an indictment of unhealthy or skewed sexual mores perpetuated by religious
scolds who should know better. Additionally, it may be worth
discussing the link between maintaining inaccurate views of sexuality and the
allure of gratifying one's sexual appetite through pornography. Utah stands
as a perfect example with it's high rates of online porn subscribers and
the significant number of LDS Bishops who report porn as the most ubiquitous
confession topic among their ward members. The premise that
pornography can be avoided if a more fulfilling option is available rings true
only if the more fulfilling option is understood. In the case of religious
teaching, it is indeed not truly understood due to the incorrect understanding
of human nature and sexuality.
Let's not forget the psychological and emotional trauma of "not living
up to their fantasy version of existence" that is found in pornography and
most visual media depicting "real" and "healthy" relationships.
@jeanieRecognizing that humans are an evolved species with inherent
sexual urges that can be contained by an ethical social framework that
doesn't revolve around shame or an unrealistic, total abstinence. This
would essentially be at odds with most conservative religious teaching which
often scolds young men and women for not living up to their fantasy version of
Deseretina -What constitutes "a healthy sexual outlook for teens
and early adults"? I'm curious.
'Educate' is a loose term for this organization. They take great
liberties at selecting what is presented as research and promote the religious
approach of complete abstinence rather than presenting a healthy sexual outlook
for teens and early adults. This much is apparent to those of us who understand
both basic human sexuality and the fundamentals of establishing a
'cult' movement, which is exactly what this supposedly secular front
for LDS followers is doing. The division still exists between the honest pursuit
for truth, and promoting dogmatic principles to justify tradition.
Anyone could deduce the article is written by a women by simply looking at the
picture and name of the author. A thorough analytical reading and checking of
sources will reveal the realities behind the dangers of pornography and the
threat it poses to relationships and individual free will. There's plenty
of research and theory to back up the claims.
Obviously written by a woman.