Carmen Rasmusen Herbert: Can pornography really kill love?

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  • G L W8 SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Oct. 31, 2015 9:08 p.m.

    The discussion about evolution is a red herring. Can those evolutionists who believe sex is all just a natural thing developed over eons of time become addicted to porn? Absolutely, just as anyone else can.
    The discussion about art vs. porn is also a red herring. One can lust after Michelangelo's "David", another can see it as a classic work of art.
    Over time, we’ve had various works of art in the Springville Art Museum. Our teachers taught us to appreciate them as a works of art--though a few students knew where to get pornographic material if they wanted to. Most of us just knew the difference between the artworks and material that promoted experimentation of a sexual nature.
    Sometimes various sections of society will go to extremes to protect others. But a group that is promoting making good individual choices is to be praised. If that's the approach the Porn Kills Love group is taking, more power to them.
    I wish we had more celebs like Carmen was that would hold standards high. Maybe members of this group will set like examples with their peers.

  • spaghetti Boise, ID
    Oct. 31, 2015 2:14 p.m.

    I'm with Jeanie.

    I know from personal experience the porn kills love. It takes something sacred and beautiful and throws it in the trash. The human body is beautiful and a gift that we should treat with reverence, realizing that it's not an object, but belongs to a feeling, living soul. Unfortunately, many in society treat it exactly opposite and mock what should never be mocked.

    As the article states:"Sex without love — especially the kind pornography promotes — is so damaging because it bonds an individual to an act rather than a person." It devalues people by turning them into objects to be selfishly used.

  • goosehuntr Tooele, UT
    Oct. 30, 2015 3:59 p.m.

    What to me is the great evidence that we are the offspring of God, is that we possess the power to act like animals or to act like deity. No other life form on this planet has that limitless capability. Over and over again, we have proven our capacity to reach immense hights as well as immense depravity. Our abilities are limitless in both directions. The direction we move is welded to who's voice we follow and divine agency we possess.

  • tesuji Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 30, 2015 2:37 p.m.

    Kudos to Ms. Herbert for standing up for decency and mental health.

  • Contrariusester mid-state, TN
    Oct. 30, 2015 1:30 p.m.

    @The Caravan Moves On --

    "Let those who use pornography now say what they want, I know the truth."

    It's a chicken-and-egg question. Did you ever stop to ask whether the porn was actually the *cause* of your marriage difficulties, or merely a *symptom* of them?

  • The Caravan Moves On Enid, OK
    Oct. 30, 2015 1:14 p.m.

    Does pornography diminish true love?

    Without a doubt, yes.

    How do I know?

    Because I was once in to it (pornography) pretty heavy. The effect it had on my marriage was not a good one. Let me repeat that: the effect it had on my marriage, my tenderness and affection towards my wife, was NOT good.

    Let those who use pornography now say what they want, I know the truth.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 30, 2015 11:03 a.m.

    @Jeanie, I have to respectfully disagree with you.

    You say, "The beauty of the human form has - nothing - to do with porn."

    I sincerely believe and perhaps a large segment of the Male readers here would a agree that, Physically Unattractive Females have no career in the Adult Film industry. Call it Lookism. But it is what it is. Sad but true. The Male sex wants attractive females to view, It's in their biological makeup, Social/religious programming notwithstanding. Call it the Natural man versus Man of God Paradox.

  • Contrariusiest mid-state, TN
    Oct. 29, 2015 4:56 p.m.

    @jeanie --

    "Comparing animal "morality" to human morality is like comparing a a piece of gravel with the Matterhorn. How is it that humans have so far outpaced the animal kingdom in every respect?"

    It's called "evolution".

    "What was the astronomical event that propelled our "species" so far in advance of every other life form? I believe it was that humans are off spring of God."

    And that's a fine thing to believe. But here's the thing: your belief isn't incompatible with evolution. God works in mysterious ways, remember?

    "It is exactly the argument that we are merely evolved animals that seeks to allow for us to behave more like them."

    Nope. We are not "merely" anything, and evolution doesn't say that we are. But the acknowledgment of evolution does allow us to better understand where our instincts come from, and how they might have been beneficial in more primitive species even if they are destructive in our more evolved society.

    "You have the last word, I don't have a lot of accounts. ;)"

    Hey -- this is only my second post in this thread. So There.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Oct. 29, 2015 4:06 p.m.

    Contrarius -

    Comparing animal "morality" to human morality is like comparing a a piece of gravel with the Matterhorn. How is it that humans have so far outpaced the animal kingdom in every respect? What was the astronomical event that propelled our "species" so far in advance of every other life form? I believe it was that humans are off spring of God.

    It is exactly the argument that we are merely evolved animals that seeks to allow for us to behave more like them. Yes, viewing porn is appetite fulfillment only and the amount of sexual restraint shown by the average animal when they are in the mood is really not indicative of the ability human men and women have - should they exercise it, and they can.

    You have the last word, I don't have a lot of accounts. ;)

    BYU Track Star

    "First let's define Porn and decide if the Human form is utterly depraved."

    You are comparing polar opposites. The beauty of the human form has - nothing - to do with porn. Porn seeks to satisfy or stir lust in the viewer. The Getty isn't pushing lust fulfillment. Context is everything.

  • FanOfTheSith Vernal, UT
    Oct. 29, 2015 2:25 p.m.

    Now I can see why men are looked upon as dogs. Someone looked upon a woman and because she is a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN and a talented one, decided to asked her if she would be willing to pose nude for a magazine if she is offered lots of cash? Good for you Carmen. Thank you for being strong.

  • voiceofreason1234 SANDY, TX
    Oct. 29, 2015 12:30 p.m.

    I applaud these people for reaching out to the up and coming generation, hopefully before they become too entangled with a porn addiction.

    The truth of the matter is that we as a society (including our children) are being bombarded with images of scantily clad women and such on sidebars of computer screens. Kid's game sites have porn type images on the sidebars, click on the wrong link and one will find themselves innocently in a realm of porn they did not intend to visit!

    Shame on our society for allowing this to go as far as it has, protect your children. Many kids have a phone in their pocket and can view these interesting photos that are addictive at any time and get sucked into an addiction not knowing how to get out. God bless and protect the children and bless the parents to teach them well, do what they can to set limits and pay attention. Love you guys.

  • Wz Norfolk , MA
    Oct. 29, 2015 12:15 p.m.

    Deseretina- Why does someone deny the existence of God? What is the cause? The reality is that our bodies are on loan and bought with a price. We are responsible for how we treat them. The gift of reproduction is a sacred one - different from animals, because we are offspring of Deity and because we have the potential of self-control. When you take animal behavior as your model, you are degrading yourself. There is no upside besides temporary pleasure. I don't seek to convince you. The truth would not be the truth if all accepted it. You are free to make your choices. But, compare the pleasure of sexual experimentation without commitment to a loving family, with honor and fidelity in which children need not be ashamed of their parents' indiscretions. Discipline, self-control, and respect for holiness and love that exist with committed and faithful families are my goal. Your supposedly healthy sexual experimentation is simply using the bodies of children of God for selfish and unholy pleasures. Not good.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 29, 2015 12:01 p.m.

    @ Big D,
    I think the Mote in your eye is of your own making. If perchance you make it down to L.A's Getty Museum, you can have a good gander of the Mistresses of European Nobility circa 1600. In various forms of undress. Would you consider this "Soft" Porn? I'm sure to the 17th Century Nobility , these illustrations were racy. To each his own I suppose.

  • Big 'D' San Mateo, CA
    Oct. 29, 2015 10:59 a.m.

    BYU Track Star,
    Why have you erroneously conflated any unclothed depiction of the human form with pornography? Neither the article's author nor FTND are taking issue with statues of David, Buddha, or fertility figurines. Where exactly to draw the line for what is appropriate may be up for debate, but to use the examples that you did to justify your position is pretty ridiculous.
    Let's see you trot out an example of violent, gratuitous hardcore porn and then tell everyone it is harmless, healthy, and appropriate.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 29, 2015 10:13 a.m.

    Can Pornography really kill love? The short answer is no. First let's define Porn and decide if the Human form is utterly depraved. If the Human form is depraved, then the Michelangelo's statue of David in Florence, Italy should be withdrawn from public viewing or at least be Clothed in public. As playwright, Oscar Wilde observed, "Anything is lewd when properly viewed". What are we to make of the Neolithic Fertility figurines? Are they Pornographic and therefore should be destroyed? I think out. Should 2,300 year old Statutes of a reclining Buddha be deemed pornographic and therefore be Dynamited. I think not, but the Taliban thought otherwise. Porno, fellow readers is not the Boggy man for all sundry relationship problems. It is only a piece of the puzzle. If we are the acme God's creation why did God let us run around Eden unclothed for so long?

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Oct. 29, 2015 7:51 a.m.

    @jeanie --

    "Religion teaches that we are more than evolved animals and therefore we are more than our appetites."

    That's a false dichotomy. There is no contradiction between being an evolved animal and being more than our appetites.

    We see the rudiments of empathy and morality in many nonhuman animals. Check out the book "The Moral Animal" by Robert Wright for a classic intro to the evolutionary benefits of morality, and "Good Natured" by Frans de Waal for an exploration of morality in apes and other species.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Oct. 29, 2015 7:52 a.m.

    I want to add that I do believe my religion at least is doing a better job of recognizing the inherent challenges in living a sexually disciplined way. While the doctrines have not changed, abstinence before marriage, complete fidelity after, the approach is more understanding of our modern challenges and seeks to help people succeed to live virtuous lives more than shaming them into it.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 8:57 p.m.

    Deseretina-

    Thanks for your reply. I understand your perspective, but disagree.

    "...Recognizing that humans are an evolved species with inherent sexual urges..."

    Many people (me included) do not subscribe to the idea that science has entirely answered the question of what it means to be human. It is a huge leap to think an animal evolved to the point that they could construct a "an ethical social framework" for regulating the propagation of their species.

    Religion teaches that we are more than evolved animals and therefore we are more than our appetites. There is something awesome in the power to create life and when this is the basis of our beliefs it is not a fantasy to think that we have serious responsibilities beyond satisfying our appetite.

    Porn is solely appetite driven. There is nothing ennobling about it, and it IS destructive unless all we hope to be is advanced animals.

  • Juana DT Provo, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 2:28 p.m.

    Thank you for this truthful article. I highly recommend Dr. Donald Hilton's book "He Restoreth My Soul". He is a neurosurgeon in Houston TX who is a well-known speaker on this subject. There is no doubt that pornography does kill love--that the brain is changed by pornography just as substance abuse affects the brain--and that the brain can change back to normal as viewing pornography is overcome. Again, thank you for the article and for how you handled the opportunity to misuse your own body--thank you for your integrity!

  • Deseretina Murray, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 12:25 p.m.

    @goosehuntr

    That's equal parts patronizing and dismal.I appreciate the concern, if that was also intended.

  • goosehuntr Tooele, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 12:18 p.m.

    @ Deseretina

    I have worked with and for people all my career. You must be in a micro group of people who really get this "healthy outlook for teens and adults." Because what I have worked with is the rest of society. Who I guess aren't informed well enough concerning this outlook. Sorrow rages through these uninformed children, adults and adolescents. I have worked with many who claimed excellent sexual health while wrecking relationships of every kind. They walk through life with a view that no one gets this like I do. "I am so happy," they say, while the effects of their sexual choices leave a trail of tears. One day, your perfect understanding of this healthy outlook will betray you. You may find "happiness" for a season, but by and by the end will come.

  • Deseretina Murray, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 10:47 a.m.

    @Cav Pilot

    Passive aggressive contributions aside, the 'fantasy version of existence' description was less of a defense of pornography than an indictment of unhealthy or skewed sexual mores perpetuated by religious scolds who should know better.

    Additionally, it may be worth discussing the link between maintaining inaccurate views of sexuality and the allure of gratifying one's sexual appetite through pornography. Utah stands as a perfect example with it's high rates of online porn subscribers and the significant number of LDS Bishops who report porn as the most ubiquitous confession topic among their ward members.

    The premise that pornography can be avoided if a more fulfilling option is available rings true only if the more fulfilling option is understood. In the case of religious teaching, it is indeed not truly understood due to the incorrect understanding of human nature and sexuality.

  • Cav Pilot St George, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 9:26 a.m.

    Let's not forget the psychological and emotional trauma of "not living up to their fantasy version of existence" that is found in pornography and most visual media depicting "real" and "healthy" relationships.

  • Deseretina Murray, UT
    Oct. 28, 2015 7:26 a.m.

    @jeanie

    Recognizing that humans are an evolved species with inherent sexual urges that can be contained by an ethical social framework that doesn't revolve around shame or an unrealistic, total abstinence. This would essentially be at odds with most conservative religious teaching which often scolds young men and women for not living up to their fantasy version of existence.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Oct. 27, 2015 3:11 p.m.

    Deseretina -

    What constitutes "a healthy sexual outlook for teens and early adults"? I'm curious.

  • Deseretina Murray, UT
    Oct. 27, 2015 12:19 p.m.

    'Educate' is a loose term for this organization. They take great liberties at selecting what is presented as research and promote the religious approach of complete abstinence rather than presenting a healthy sexual outlook for teens and early adults. This much is apparent to those of us who understand both basic human sexuality and the fundamentals of establishing a 'cult' movement, which is exactly what this supposedly secular front for LDS followers is doing. The division still exists between the honest pursuit for truth, and promoting dogmatic principles to justify tradition.

  • Reflectere Utah, UT
    Oct. 27, 2015 10:43 a.m.

    Anyone could deduce the article is written by a women by simply looking at the picture and name of the author. A thorough analytical reading and checking of sources will reveal the realities behind the dangers of pornography and the threat it poses to relationships and individual free will. There's plenty of research and theory to back up the claims.

  • Silver Stingray St. George, UT
    Oct. 27, 2015 10:21 a.m.

    Obviously written by a woman.