School shooters are opportunists and cowards. Conceal carry by school
administrators and teachers will keep these creeps away from our schools
hopefully. Fifty years ago there was no problem with this kind of thing.It
is the liberal mindset that helps degrade our kids and set them up for this kind
of trouble. Our higher education system is full of them. We are fortunate to
live in the mountain west where it not such a big problem in our population.
Everyone has a right to carry a gun, even teachers. The more good people who
carry guns the better in my opinion. Just make sure that they are properly
trained both in their use and storage. I would hate to see innocent children
killed by the improper use of guns by anyone. We need to protect our children
from the probability of some homophobic person slaughtering our children in a
"gun-free" zone. It is also important to post on the outside of schools,
churches, universities, theaters, shopping malls, stadiums, etc. that there are
many armed and trained personnel who are protecting the lives of students and
participants; and, that this is a "gun-free" zone only for those who are
not legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon.
It is nobody's business which teachers are armed. It is irrelevant.
If every school had "POST" certified teachers with guns...Sandy
Hook never happens.... Columbine never happens....If students,
especially Veterans, are allowed to carry in Colleges and Universities....Virginia Tech never happens..Umpqua College never happens...If Gun Free Zones are eliminated...Fort Hood never happens...Aurora Theater never happens....These killers may get a few rounds
off, but the casualties will be counted on one hand and not 5 hands.Sadly, Little Neville Chamberlain's occupy our world today.And
their foolish naivete' makes the world much more dangerous than it needs to
To "Shaun" did you not see where the teachers were getting free training
for their Conceal Carry Permits?
@ Janet Pete"I thought the whole argument for people to carry
guns was so that nobody would mess them! Now you say that if someone knew an
individual was carrying a gun, that person would become a target."LOL! Yeah, the arguments make a lot of sense, don't they? Like, when
everyone is armed, the crazies wanting to make a statement will be cowed into
inaction at the thought that others might be armed! Well, in a classroom of
6-year olds, who is the only one that may be armed? So who are you going to
target first?Please. Hutterite is right. We're addressing the
2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UT"#1. You are worrying about
something that has never happened. A student has never been harmed by a Teacher
with a Concealed Carry Permit. Never."From the Law of Averages:
If it can happen, it will happen.
I think this is great! A retired teacher friend of mine said he
carried a gun the many years he was teaching. No students or parents knew and he
told no one until after he retired. Had I known I would have requested my kids
be in his class. It is an exceptionally vunerable position to be the
protector of 30 children and have no way of defending them should a violent
individual enter the classroom. Teachers take this possibility seriously and
cannot sleep at night when they hear in the news of one terrible individual
taking out innocent children. All they can do is picture their own students and
ask, what if it were them? They go through scenerios in their minds of what they
would, or could do. It is strange to me that some talk so
passionatly that teachers should not have guns like somehow they are the bad
guys. It is the teachers who would save your children if faced with the threat
of a real evil. We all know this is a real possibility. Until no bad
guys can have access to guns, teachers are smart to arm themselves. Good for the
Janet Pete - it would take less time to pull a gun out from under a jacket that
it would to find your keys, unlock a cabinet and retrieve a gun from a lockbox.
No community or business that has allowed open carry (or even
concealed carry) has become the lawless Wild West, with shoot outs going on,
like the gun control advocates claim would happen. Most gun owners I've
known take that responsibility very seriously, and put time into training and
target practice. I'm not saying all do, but those I've known do.
Perhaps school systems could offer incentives for teachers who take further
2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UT"Teachers are American
citizens... " I don't think you understand the Supreme
Court's decision and the limitations mentioned in that decision. Your
opinion may not be changeable by any discussion here, but please recognize that
the Court's ruling is not all-encompassing. There remain limits and
I'm sure that this confusion will be clarified with forthcoming lawsuits on
gun safety issues.As regards the personal affairs of a teacher, the
only question a parent or another teacher might have is "Does that teacher
carry a concealed gun to work?" Nothing else is relevant.And
your comment about the training necessary to obtain a concealed carry permit as
I understand extremely limited. It's just a couple of hours listening to a
lecture. There is not intensive training on use of a weapon as police officers
must pass. It's bare bones with a lot of gun rights-NRA pontificating.
People are not even checked to see if they can shoot, much less shoot
accurately. It's far worse than being tested to drive a car or even ride a
Mel50Nashville, TNAh, so this is open carry unless the
teacher, men and women, must wear clothing to conceal the weapon such as a
jacket at all times. Maybe you can answer this question. Does having a weapon
under a closed coat delay reaction time? How long would it take a female
teacher, untrained in accessing/using her weapon under threating conditions,
open her jacket and pull said weapon from its holster?I realize that
this gets to be a bit silly, but I still think you would need extremely
well-trained teachers undergoing regular practice involved in such activity.
Maybe those with such authorization could qualify for hazard pay if they are to
engage an attacker under such circumstances. Less than five seconds? Perhaps the community can hire professional guards, surround schools with a
high fence, have a single entrance to the campus, and have metal detectors to
check each student. Interesting development, however, when schools become armed
zones and we're required to send our children to those schools by state
law.Allowing guns in the workplace makes me think of all the
shootings that occur at work by disgruntled employees or their spouses.
Janet Pete - the employee must keep the weapon on their person. The article
stated the weapon should not be put into a desk drawer or locker, where a
student might come across it. So if a situation did arise, the teacher would
have immediate access to their gun.
@2bits"Not a single child has been shot by their teacher."I guess the gun free school zones are working then.
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)The Supreme Court
held:"(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to
possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is
not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and
for whatever purpose"(3) . . . [the] total ban on handgun
possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of
“arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose
of self-defense." It looks like a reading of the Supreme Court
decision enumerated above requires some additional clarification. I see several
lawsuits coming regarding where and when concealed handguns can be carried
outside the home. The decision was made regarding an individual's right to
bring his service handgun home. Nothing was said about carrying in public
DN SubscriberCottonwood Heights, UT"Why would anyone want
to paint a target on a teacher by pointing out which ones might be carrying a
legal self defense weapon?"I thought the whole argument for
people to carry guns was so that nobody would mess them! Now you say that if
someone knew an individual was carrying a gun, that person would become a
target.It's not much of a stretch to think that if some
teachers carry guns, then it may be safe to assume when a gunman enters a
classroom that any teacher is carrying a gun. So, the first thing to do would to
eliminate the potential threat. Talk about targets on their back~Since shooters on school campuses expect to die during their attack, they are
not really that concerned about a teacher having possession of a gun since they
would be the first person shot when the attacker comes through the door. Also,
if the teacher must keep their weapon in a safe place in the classroom and not
have it quickly accessible, he/she would already be at a disadvantage.Methinks the legislature did the painting.
Did the state also give teachers immunity from liability in case a student is
injured by a teacher who accidentally shoots the wrong person. If a teacher does
not have the training to deal with a rapidly changing situation under extremely
confusing conditions, the odds of making a mistake are significantly enhanced.
Perhaps a teacher wishing to carry a gun should go through police training and
be qualified through that organization. I would also think parents
have a right to know who is carrying a gun in the school their children attend.
Maybe a parent would not be comfortable with the idea that a teacher carries a
gun around their child. It's a little like the child climbing into a car
with somebody they don't know.
@Paul ElderChicago, IL"Let's arm the janitors, the
administration, the bus drivers...where does it end"...---Well... are the janitors, administration, bus drivers, etc, citizens?Then they deserve ALL the rights of citizens (not just the ones you like)Of course they have to pass the same background checks every other
citizen has to pass before purchasing a gun (The Brady Bill background check).
And I think all people purchasing guns should have their background
checked. Gun shows and private sales included. Almost out of words but it can
easily be done. Maybe explain later.And they have to be trained
(just like every other CC-permit holder).A special training class
for teachers, bus drivers, etc, would be a good idea. The state or the district
could provide it (gun safety in the classroom). I'm sure any CC trainer
would be glad to put this type of training together for any district that wants
Why would anyone want to paint a target on a teacher by pointing out which ones
might be carrying a legal self defense weapon?To the guy from
Chicago who said " No child of mine would EVER attend a school with this
many guns." There are lots of guns in Chicago schools, but it's not
the teachers who are carrying them. Gun bans only disarm the good guys and
gals.Rusty is right about the difference between the classroom
instruction for a permit and the advanced live firing or tactical scenario
training which would greatly enhance a teacher's ability (and confidence)
to defend themselves and their students. Shaun has a good point
that it would be good for schools to fund advanced firearms defensive tactics
training as part of "professional development" just as if they wanted to
take a class to improve their math, science, language or other skills to enable
them to do a better job.
Hutterite: "Yet no one is asking how it is as a society that we've
arrived at a place where we want our schoolteachers to be armed. We just accept
it."That's just not true. I've expressed my opinion
many times in the DesNews message boards. Just because you don't like my
thoughts is no reason to say they don't exist. Here are four reasons why
our society is at this place:1) Banning prayer and religion in
schools. Our society has completely lost it's moral compass.2)
Elective abortion reflects that view human life is cheap and can be taken from
another as a matter of convenience.3) Elimination/reduction of the
death penalty says a human life can be traded for a few years in prison instead
of the ultimate penalty.4) Open season on the most vulnerable
(infants and geriatrics). If you kill me, you'll probably get five-to-life.
If you kill an infant, you might get probation to a few months.These
viewpoints have made life cheap in our society. That is why we are where we are.
Let's arm the janitors, the administration, the bus drivers...where does it
end? If something bad happens, how do you tell the good guys from the bad? Just
because someone took a course doesn't mean they should be armed. No child
of mine would EVER attend a school with this many guns. Just plain wrong.
I've seen clips twice on KSL News taken at so-called training sessions for
teachers. Anyone who has had professional experience with firearms will be
appalled by what's shown in those clips. It's obvious from the way
the teachers were handling and holding the weapons that whatever training they
have received is simply inadequate or completely wrong.If teachers
are going to carry firearms at school, they should be required to meet the same
training standards and qualifications as professional police officers. They
should be compensated for spending the extra time and money to do so.Unless teachers are able to meet the same standards as police officers, they
will be endangering their students.
Yet no one is asking how it is as a society that we've arrived at a place
where we want our schoolteachers to be armed. We just accept it.
@ShaunRE: "I do not mind teachers that carry but the state
should pay for additional training for these teachers"...---#1. You are worrying about something that has never happened. A student has
never been harmed by a Teacher with a Concealed Carry Permit. Never.#2. CC Training is already free to Teachers (in Utah). Several CC Training
outfits have already offered to train teachers for free. So the State
doesn't have to pay for it. #3. Training is already required
as part of the Concealed Carry Permit process (training is a requirement). You
can't get one without the training. The requirement is the same for
teachers (they have to attend the training before they get the permit).Must they all be trained marksmen? Probably not. The more actual shooting
training the better, but even firing a shot into the air is enough to stop some
active shooters. Because the shooter is forced to stop shooting momentarily and
take cover (giving some a chance to escape). Most shooters plan to
take their own life before capture. When fire is returned they immediately put
that plan into action (usually).
Good. Teachers are American citizens... they deserve ALL the rights
of American Citizens.Teachers are Utah citizens... they deserve ALL
the rights of Utah citizens (including Utah concealed carry permit holder
rights).We don't have the right to know all their personal
business just because they picked teaching for their profession... it
doesn't take their rights away. It doesn't mean they have no privacy
and their private business can be broadcast on the internet or to all
parents.Parents don't have a right to know every private detail
about their teachers. They don't have the right to know if they have
problems with their spouse. Financial problems. What religion they are. What
their political beliefs are. What their gun-rights beliefs are. Etc.These are irrelevant to their ability to teach, and to the safety of your
child.Not a single child has been shot by their teacher. You
gun-fearing people are worrying about something that has NEVER happened.But the opposite has happened...Google "Teacher hailed
as hero in Lacey high school shooting"...And some unarmed
teachers have been killed trying to protect our children.CC-teachers
are NOT the problem.
I do not mind teachers that carry but the state should pay for additional
training for these teachers. A untrained person with a gun is not ideal scenario
in a school setting.