Why it’s so hard for women in religious communities to find men to marry

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  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Sept. 16, 2015 1:30 p.m.

    I blame romance novels which are pornography for women. Women expect men to be like the books. I could right a book about the perfect wife and woman. Then we would see woman try and live up to a fictional character.
    Why is it not romantic to get up early, go work hard at a job all day, then come home and be with your wife?
    Why is it not romantic to spend a saturday fixing all the things around the house that need fixing?
    Why is it not romantic to tell your wife every morning and night that you love her and think she is beautiful?

  • Wasatch Rebel Kearns, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2015 6:31 a.m.

    I think it idiotic that the sole basis for measuring success is a college education. Whenever one thinks himself or herself above another because of an educational experience, without counting the life experience of others, one has moved himself or herself out of the marriage pool. Despite the education gap, there are plenty of fine men who are successful in their careers they have chosen--whether it's an electrician, a fireman, or a plumber etc.--who in their own way are just as successful as Joe College who spent four years earning a B.S. degree. I believe that if marriages are built upon character and love, they are going to be far more successful than marriages based upon level of education in a university.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 12, 2015 10:57 p.m.

    If you're a woman, and you have entitlement issues, are flakey, high maintenance, and/or gaining weight, all of those "unattractive" characteristics would make it even HARDER to find a man who would want to marry you.

    Just sayin'...

  • davidmpark Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2015 10:09 p.m.

    There are numerous articles similar to this one, released at the same time. We hear of MGTOW, 3rd Wave Feminism (now 4th wave is starting), problems finding mates... and articles citing the same source material as all these previous articles calling for legalizing polygamy.

    I think it's safe to assume we're now experiencing a demographics collapse along with the social and economic collapse.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    Sept. 11, 2015 11:40 p.m.

    Polygamy means that 50 out of 100 men will have 3 wives and 50 men won't have any. No polygamy isn't the answer if you want everyone to be married. The math really doesn't work out. And you reduce the marriage pool for the children from those unions because they soon become related to each other. Then children are born with medical issues or higher rate of death because they are married to their 2nd half cousin who is also a bonus uncle.

    For so long it was marry as soon as possible after the mission. That meant sisters coming home at 22 from missions found everyone older married. Is Utah the only place to find a spouse? The reason there are less men also is the men are away on missions. 80% of the 18-21 year old unmarried men are away on missions. Only 60% of the unmarried women in the 19-21 age bracket are gone. I think the new age being closer to each other will be a help. The stats are before the missionary age change where sisters were not serving in such large numbers.

  • mrjj69 bountiful, UT
    Sept. 11, 2015 11:24 p.m.

    i am beyond the dating age, but when i was in my 20's the situation was very much reversed.
    choosing a spouse seems to be harder for some than others, regardless of gender,

  • vern001 Castle Rock, CO
    Sept. 10, 2015 8:36 p.m.

    So much male victimization going on! You earn more than women, you control all branches of government, you head up an overwhelming majority of companies...and yet you still have to blame women for your situation? Give me a break.

  • nananana batman saint george, UT
    Sept. 9, 2015 10:46 p.m.

    I was informed I needed a better "dating resume" to be considered for the job/position of marriage.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Sept. 9, 2015 8:50 a.m.

    Xert has had many a fun date in these situations by simply "pretending" to be a suitable male. Since my halo could never glow as brightly as an actual suitable male, I figure "why the heck not?" I get the dual benefits of getting to pretend to be a suitable male and fun times with the suitable seeking female. And boy, are they easy to fool! Once I start putting the moves on, the suitable female starts losing all interest in suitable behavior and it's katie bar the door from there! Xert generally goes back to being an unsuitable male about five minutes after the date is over.

  • nananana batman saint george, UT
    Sept. 9, 2015 12:07 a.m.

    Both genders have their expectations too high for each other.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Sept. 4, 2015 12:31 p.m.

    Part II
    Try this --

    What does a woman stand to gain/loose with marriage?
    What does a man stand to gain/loose with marriage?

    A woman stands to GAIN just about everything with a marriage.
    while a Man runs the risk of LOOSING everything with a marriage.

    With Divorce rates at over 50%,
    and Women continually being given the house, cars, and kids --
    and 50% of everything the man makes --
    REGADLESS as to who was to fault...

    Tell me again the reason a man should get married?

    [And yes,
    I know women who have boozed it up, slept around, kep the house, kids, and car and taken him to the financial cleaners for no other reason other than didn't want to be married to HIM anymore...]

    "NO Fault divorce" has ruined "marriage" more than SameSex marriage ever could...

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Sept. 3, 2015 5:06 p.m.

    @equusrider4
    Bluffdale, UT

    Ok enough is enough. @ LDS Liberal
    I feel most of the men jumping in here are coming from a bitter and damaging divorce and blaming women, the Church and everyone else except themselves for at least part of the problem. Stop whining.
    This is the reality NOT tainted by bitterness.

    12:04 p.m. Sept. 1, 2015

    =========

    Ok enough is enough. @equusrider4
    Bluffdale, UT

    1. I am not divorced - and have been married for over 30 years.
    2. I have been 100% active for 57 years.
    3. I have witnessed firsthand over that 57 years the disparity coming over the pulpits.
    [and I know the difference between "Doctrine" and "oppression".

    and finally after 57 years --
    of giving $100+K in tithes and offerings,
    2 years to a full-time Mission,
    25 years in BoyScouts - [including 2 years time donated Vacation timeoff from Work, lostwages and countless weekends for those kids]
    6 years in Bishoprics,
    4 years in Elders Quorums,

    Would I trade it - NO!
    but to honest --
    Trying to balance my stay-at-home,
    non-working Wife,
    who goes Visiting Teaching once a month
    to my endless list of Church responsibilities --

    then
    4. I feel I have completely earned my right to complain.

  • 2close2call Los Angeles, CA
    Sept. 3, 2015 3:13 p.m.

    I believe many of the mainstream religions are toxic to men and treat men as evil when they are not. The reason is many religions have determined that classically male traits are a sin. While I was growing up LDS, as a boy, I always made to feel I was going to a lower kingdom because I could not stop feeling sexual feelings towards attractive women(something that was basic biology)and therefore my male sexuality was intrinsically a sin even if I never acted on it. This was exacerbated by the LDS church teachings that tell men that masturbation is a sin, when nearly all men masturbate at some point in their life. Additionally, many religions center around feelings, not logic and disenfranchise men who tend to be more logical.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 3, 2015 9:02 a.m.

    Girls are also rejecting short guys, fat guys, nerds, the balding, the shy, etc.. Sure, guys are shallow regarding less attractive girls, but women have their version of shallowness too.

    Guys aren’t blameless. They figure that their relative scarcity entitles them to a hot chick. The problem is that the hot chicks have their pick of guys. The average guys may be able to get a gal a little out of their league, but they want the super models and are waiting to get them. They too end up aging out of the program and their choices become fewer and less desirable. They often just give up.

    Guys involved in porn need less shaming. The shame makes them feel like they’ll never be good enough and so they give up and seek out more accepting non-LDS girls. We need to show Young Men more love and encouragement and letting them know that everyone has a favorite sin and that they are valued. Condemnation and feeling like they'll never be good/worthy enough drives people away.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 3, 2015 8:38 a.m.

    Exacerbating the problem- LDS girls being told to only marry returned missionaries. Guys not serving missions get rejected, especially by younger girls willing to wait. Rejection pushes guys into the arms of non-LDS girls (or porn) and thereby into inactivity. These non-LDS girls also see the man shortage and gladly take them. LDS coeds may also reject guys without a college degree. LDS gals often dream of being a stay-at-home mom and want a man who will make enough money to allow that and reject guys who don't. This likewise pushes good LDS guys toward women (often non-LDS) who aren't big on having kids and/or want to pursue a career. Men need to be respected by their women and women don't usually respect men who make less than they do. This leads to less intimacy and women looking elsewhere. This pushes men to porn exacerbating the problem.

    Guys hate spending 60 hours/week working to afford a stay-at-home wife, several kids, a big house, etc.. and lose it all and be in debt for a house he doesn't live in and kids he isn't can't see.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    Sept. 2, 2015 11:34 p.m.

    I am not a member of the LDS Church, however, I do have one question to ask: "What type of church do you belong to in Utah?" I have never known an LDS person as described above. Nor do I find the male LDS members that I know, behave, dress or act anything like what has been described. Is this just a Utah problem?

  • suchfun1 St.George, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 2:49 p.m.

    Are not the LDS church authorities mostly elderly, and older middle aged men?
    Perhaps are they stuck in the past?
    If they were mean and cruel to their wives they may not have gotten dinner, clean clothes, companionship, love, etc. Could it be that is why they encourage the men to be kind to their wives and do better?
    Women are different now. Men are different now. Single, self sufficient people happily abound through our society,
    We see so many of them living the single life without any intent of marriage.
    They watch their married friend'a marriages dissolve, both the church sanctioned and civil marriages.
    Who wants to deal with that "tragedy"?
    Single adults appear happy and fulfilled. They are always the favorite aunt and uncle in their family, and with their friend's children.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    Sept. 2, 2015 1:52 p.m.

    @JHHINTON

    "skeptic: Your response has no merit..in the article or in real life. But you are allowed your opinion."

    Actually, I believe Skeptic is dead-on; and I thank you for allowing people to have opinions.

    The secrecy (particularly the financial secrecy) is very hard for me to get over. It is difficult for my wife too, but she seems better able to "put it in a box" and see other positive things about the Church (like caring for our members, etc.). Perhaps women are more forgiving of wrongs and hypocrisy than men are.

  • nigene slc, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 1:48 p.m.

    I did laugh out loud when, after the mother's day gift and card at church read something like "Mother's are like a soft rose petal...something something", the father's day gift had a sign attached that said something like "A man's responsibility is to ensure happiness in the home...something something"
    I do sense the trend in church culture to beat men down while at the same time telling women not to beat themselves up so much. But I don't know for sure...I admit I could be wrong. Either way, It's not like I take offense at it or anything...just try to check with Heavenly Father and get a confirmation by the Spirit if that is something I need to be working on myself at the present.

  • Unpopular Truth Snowflake, AZ
    Sept. 2, 2015 1:15 p.m.

    Regardless of personal viewpoint, I'd like to add that this article was most likely written to encourage women who are having anxiety or other difficulties arising from or concerning this subject. I see many comments on the site that indicate the article is blaming one or the other gender for the problems presented. Quite the contrary. It is obviously directed towards women, much like General Conference has a Relief Society Session directed towards women and a Priesthood Session directed towards men. Anyone who thinks this article is here to attack anyone, they're wrong. Society has issues that encompass everyone looking for marriage. That shouldn't matter. What should matter is each individual's personal search for someone they would be willing to share eternity with. There's a difference between choosing wisely and choosing pickily; only God can tell that individual the difference, and even then only if they are listening.
    I only hope that each of us will be willing and humble enough to listen.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 11:34 a.m.

    @Alfred
    "That could be because men are killed in wars."

    At least in the U.S., since Vietnam (so anyone under the age of 55) we haven't had enough wartime losses to significantly affect percentages. Men do tend to die earlier from higher rates of tobacco use, alcohol, car accidents, etc etc but the primary difference is that in some churches there's just a larger than national average gender ratio.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Sept. 2, 2015 11:29 a.m.

    This has been an Issue in Utah in one degree or another for LDS folks since at least 1847. I recall a related pioneer era story J. Golden Kimball told about a newlywed couple the Morning after. The Groom didn't recognize his new bride after all her appliances had been taken off. In exasperation the Groom called his Bride, to "Sing, darn you Sing".

    During my tenure at the Y in the 1970s. I heard stories of BYU coeds rising up in 4 o'clock hour, to get their hair curled just right, on the Off-chance they might encounter, the one, as thousands to students pass on the walk ways between classes.

    I've also heard tales of 70s BYU coeds never letting their Boyfriends seeing them in Curlers. What a surprise to these naive 1970s vintage grooms. Did they too command their brides to sing after their wedding night too?

    Well this continued LDS Arms race to snag a man doesn't surprise me. The Single(Active)LDS Guys are taking advantage of this demographic anomaly with a vengeance. But sisters, bear in mind, The Odds are good, but the goods may be odd.

  • spice6 Roy, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 11:24 a.m.

    Why do the General Authorities continue to "blast" the men? All have years of experience dealing with families who have major problems......abuse....verbal, sexual, emotional, pornography, and infidelity. That is why they repeatedly exhort the heads of households to honor their Priesthood and their wives. They see so many women who are suffering. Women are taught to honor and respect their husbands...some don't I agree...but most continue to try even as they are beaten, cheated on, abandoned and shredded from years of abuse. Married for 16 years, became the breadwinner when my 3rd child was 2 months old which allowed my ex to seek further relationships because "I did not have time for him", have another baby soon after....took care of 4 small children...all under the age of 5, during the day while he attended school and then I left for my swing shift job. Still not happy with the way I responded to his physical, sexual and emotional abuse, he left. Sadly in 20 years of dealing with hundreds of women, the story repeats itself. Half his paycheck? Not even close!! Still live at poverty level (with a college degree) while he lives in a million dollar home.

  • Oh, please! Saint George, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 10:55 a.m.

    D News: Why wasn't allowed through the first time?

    After serving in two YSA Wards for over 9 years, I've found the biggest problem by far is porn, followed by video game addiction. While MOSTLY male issues, they strike at the very core--rendering these kids emotionally, spiritually, physically, socially, and financially inept. Add texting and social media and many of these young people are doomed. They can't succeed in school, relationships, whatever. They can't commit because their lives are fraudulent on every level.

    Some keep this hidden, marry and then their lovely bride gets the shock of her life. Her husband is a fraud. She is betrayed at the highest level and then is asked to forgive him and spend the rest of her life trying to keep him in line. It's not her job to rehab him. It was his parents' job to raise him correctly.

    Young men and women see marriage crumbling all around them (in and out of the LDS Church) and they are afraid to jump in.

    The young sisters have problems, but it's mostly the guys.

  • JHHINTON Safford, AZ
    Sept. 2, 2015 10:44 a.m.

    skeptic
    Your response has no merit..in the article or in real life. But you are allowed your opinion. Did you even read the article? I think not. It was about the problem of women finding men to marry, across a wide spectrum of religions and US life in general. As the father of 3 sons and 1 daughter--a junior at BYU, I certainly feel for the youth of this Great Country and Church.
    But it really was not that different when I went to BYU in the 70's.
    I for one, am very grateful for the Leadership of The Church---that includes righteous Men and Women -- they work very hard to do what the spirit directs them. Please, take time to pray for them and for yourself. You seem bitter and mad. I do hope that you are able to over come that.

  • Granny Saint George, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 10:39 a.m.

    Wow. It looks like those of us in St. George need to meet downtown and have a visit!!

    @BelieveInAmerica...Not sure how this works: Using pornography as your excuse to shame men back into marriage won't work any longer. Please explain.

    Agreed that women have addiction problems, too, along with entitlement issues.

    Also not sure about the "game." My spouse and I aren't involved in a game. We are in a partnership with each other and with God. That doesn't include addictions, scarlet letters, shaming or meal-ticket panic attacks. But it does include honesty, thrift, forgiveness, and rearing of children in a two-parent household.

  • BelieveInAmerica St George, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 10:16 a.m.

    I can tell you this: all those attaching scarlet letters to men for their addictions aren't going to bring them back to the marriage plantation any time soon. Men have caught on to the marriage "game" where men are forced by law to provide, even after separation. We see female addictions of material vanity and idolatry as just as harmful.

    Using pornography as your excuse to shame men back into marriage won't work any longer. This has a lot of women panicking because they know their meal ticket is ending. Men built the world we live in with all of its conveniences and comforts, all they're getting in return is self-righteousness and raw deals.

    They've had enough and are willing to sacrifice marriage and family to let the world crumble so it can be rebuilt someday again where we are respected and appreciated for again.

    You have a choice, change your tune, or accept the consequences.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 10:08 a.m.

    I had a lunch date with a lady that was a CEO of her own company. She showed up in a Lexus. I came straight from work in my UTA uniform. I could tell she thought I was beneath her. GO to the LDS dating sites and browse the women's profiles. I have found comments like don't even bother to contact me unless you are six feet, muscular athletic build and finacially well off. And don't forget an important church calling. I go to singles activities and it is the same people that have been coming for the last ten years. Most divorced woman I have dated blames their ex for the divorce. Never admit that they could at least be partially responsible. I realize I have my faults just like everyone else. A lot of it is careers. Some women have successful careers, a home, their children, grandchildren.. Who needs a man.

  • brainoncapitalist Orem, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 9:51 a.m.

    To compound the problem, a very high percentage of so-called 'eligible' single men are pornography/sex addicts which makes them absolutely not marriage material. Unfortunately, most of the women who marry men with this addiction have no idea that the man they married are addicts until they catch them in the act or the man eventually confesses, and even then, the addict will usually lie, obfuscate, and minimize the problem until the woman feels like she's going crazy. I'm not sure what the solution is, but young women need to be made aware of what they will be getting themselves into if they marry an addict. It's probably safer to just assume that the young man they are interested in is an addict, and try and help them get into a 12 step program or something, than to naively believe that THEIR guy couldn't possibly be into that stuff. It doesn't matter how 'spiritual' the guy may appear, they are more than likely hiding their addiction and may not know how to get out of it.

  • BelieveInAmerica St George, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 9:25 a.m.

    @dimelo

    "Or are you suggesting that all the members which strongly believe the church should disassociate itself from Boy Scouts, which now effectively promotes homosexuality, are wrong, and the brethren are absolutely right in staying with such an organization (while they ironically and vehemently condemn pornography)?"

    This is a major problem for me as well. Through this decision, the Church has essentially declared that homosexuality is completely normal and okay. At the same time they still harp on and on about sex addiction with all these recovery programs they continue to push day after day.

    Then you see these sort of articles bashing heterosexual men and wondering why they are struggling in the church and with marriage.

    I just see a huge amount of hypocrisy here. It seems now that as long as the doctrine lines up with feminism, then it's correct doctrine. It feels like it has been hijacked with liberal policy.

    This is no longer the same Church I grew up with my whole life. Something has changed. I get that God reveals new doctrine, but not like this, not while throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 8:52 a.m.

    Of course, no one even wants to talk about the choices that women made to leave the home in the vain pursuit of a career and how that affected men. Men function best outside the home, no matter how archaic that view may seem to all the women who are now leading the lives they pursued by choice, but now are somehow wondering why they don't have the opportunity of being a wife and mother. Men started disappearing when society thought it wise for women to compete with them in the only area they probably felt somewhat validated as a man, a job. Women "can have it all", but men have always known that a mother was something they never could be, so getting a job was second best, until women started taking that option away. At a middle school I teach with lots of women. They apply their natural mothering skills at school and can't figure out why the boys are so unruly. Boys need structure, but they also need space and freedom. You limit the space and boys rebel. Give them back the space to excel in society and men will suddenly reappear.

  • Gehaktbrood Logan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 8:39 a.m.

    Interesting study.

    I haven't pursued marriage for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the big one is that I simply don't find caucasians to be attractive (despite being one myself, I lived in Japan for several years including a mission). In the marriage contract, males pay an extremely hefty price for our apparent "hard to control" attraction to the opposite sex (divorce = wife gets custody of kids, pay child support, 1/2 assets lost, loss of freedom, must be the bread winner, etc), so it never made sense for me to consider it.

    Yes, I am happy with my life in a successful career currently. No, I'm not a morally corrupt individual "making up for it" in other illegal or shameful ways. People try to fear and shame males into getting married in Utah culture (if he's not married, he must be xyx), but the truth is, we can function normally on our own.

  • Mr. Whim Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2015 7:54 a.m.

    What is it with nearly every man on this comment board leaping up dramatically to reveal that ACTUALLY Men have it HARDER than Women because there are a few instances where men are disadvantaged, which apparently cancels out the many, MANY more where women are the disadvantaged ones? I mean, I don't even know where to start with all the fallacious vitriol the meninists are favoring today.

    Gender inequality is not a zero-sum game. I'm a man, and I have it SO much easier in this country than a woman does, because we exist in a system that is geared to favor me in most of the ways that matter. Places where a woman has the advantage over me are the ones where one must be "nurturing" and "sensitive", and men can't be that, because that would make them feminine, ergo like a woman, ergo WEAK. And it's the same kind of bullcrap that favors me for things that are "masculine".

  • The Real Maverick Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 6:05 a.m.

    I think many sisters let themselves go physically. They expect men to just be attracted to the inner beauty. Sorry, but men have hormones too. I find it interesting that the sisters who complain the most about the men are the ones who make the least effort in attracting them.

    Wear make up
    Get into shape
    Get a personality
    Watch a PG movie
    Go after that man! Don't wait for him!

  • Bill Shakespeare Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2015 5:05 a.m.

    "There's an oversupply of successful women..."

    That's all anyone needs to read to know what this article is really saying.

  • dimelo PEYTON, CO
    Sept. 2, 2015 2:11 a.m.

    Faith + Virtue + Knowledge:

    Are you suggesting that the brethren always get it right, and are always unfailingly defending truth and virtue -- and truth comes from no other source? That would be nice, and we agree ideally should be so, but conference-attending, right-striving members are suggesting per the comments here that that may not always be the case. Or are you suggesting that all the members which strongly believe the church should disassociate itself from Boy Scouts, which now effectively promotes homosexuality, are wrong, and the brethren are absolutely right in staying with such an organization (while they ironically and vehemently condemn pornography)? There are some glaring inconsistencies many faithful people are picking up on. No wonder then we are losing so many of our young men -- and the greater point from the comments here is that the leaders in the church may not be completely faultless in this. Whatever they are doing, especially always berating the male members not in leadership and backing scouting at this time, may not be effective for the well-being of young men in the church as evidenced by the already obvious outcomes?

  • Faith + Virtue + Knowledge Utah County, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 9:59 p.m.

    You can hear whatever you want in General Conference. A talk telling men they need to stand up and do more, is a valid one in my book. Between porn and providing and holding down a job and being emotionally strong for your spouse... yeah I'd say men are struggling right now. If Minecraft is more important than your wife, there is a problem. And dare anyone say there is a problem in General Conference without people getting upset that they heard something they didn't want to hear. The wicked take the truth to be hard. The fact is, if you are in tune with what you should be, you don't hear hard words but good words.

    No where do you hear "all men are wicked" and "all women are righteous". What is heard is what is needed to be said. I trust it. I have faith in it. And to be honest I have a lot more faith in the leadership of the church than I do the people who criticize the church. I'm not a general authority and none of the critics on here are either. Problem solved.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 1, 2015 1:02 p.m.

    Thee are good reasons why men are quitting the church. One of the reasons is because people have better access to information and truth. They feel betrayed by the church not being upfront, honest and transparent with them, leaving them exposed to the Mormon apologists pulling at straws and perpetuating myths. It is time to treat members with respect and honest dialogue. Make available the church records to the light of day for study, understanding and the learning of truth. No more watered down or sanitized materials.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 12:50 p.m.

    Sadly, Equusrider4, LDS Liberal's view continues to be much more common in the culture than yours is.
    I like what you're saying but so far his view is more accurate.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 12:19 p.m.

    As men age they are much less likely to be emotionally manipulated, than women.
    It's a bit easier when boys are teens but once the brain and emotions are fully developed, the manipulation is less likely to occur.

  • equusrider4 Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 12:04 p.m.

    Ok enough is enough. @ LDS Liberal
    I feel most of the men jumping in here are coming from a bitter and damaging divorce and blaming women, the Church and everyone else except themselves for at least part of the problem. Stop whining.
    This is the reality NOT tainted by bitterness.

    What I hear from the church for Men Is:
    You must serve a Mission,
    Get a good education,
    Provide for your families,
    Share in the chores,
    Do your Home Teaching,
    Magnify your Callings,
    Attend the Temple at least monthly,
    Make time for your wife,
    Make time for your children,
    and serve, serve, serve...

    Sisters, (Im one and Ive listened, so I know what is being asked of me):
    You can and could serve a Mission, if you want
    Get a good education,
    Provide for your families,
    Share in the chores,
    Do your Visiting Teaching,
    Magnify your Callings,
    Attend the Temple at least monthly,
    Make timer for your Husband,
    Make time for your children,
    and serve, serve, serve...

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 9:50 a.m.

    What is what is being communicated --

    Brethren --
    You must serve a Mission,
    Get a good education,
    Provide for your families,
    Share in the chores,
    fix the cars,
    mow the lawns,
    paint the house,
    take out the trash,
    Do your Home Teaching,
    Magnify your Callings,
    Attend the Temple at least monthly,
    Make timer for your wife,
    Make time for your children,
    and serve, serve, serve...

    Sisters --
    Do not be depressed,
    You are loved, cherished, and "better" than men.
    You don't need the Priesthood,
    and FYI --
    most men are addicted to pornography.

    If this is them message most Latter-Day Saints are also hearing --

    It explains why so many "good men" are feeling constant guilt for not measuring up or coming up short in full-filling ALL their responsibilities,
    and/or also being falsely accused or seeds of doubt and dis-trust are being planted at Church that cause men to eventually leave the Church [because it is RARELY Doctrine],
    and
    Why the remaining women are not able to find a "good" man, or want a divorce because HE is an imperfect loser/jerk after all.

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 9:11 a.m.

    I suspect that what we are seeing in these comments are largely a reaction to the tone of the article. I appreciate the challenges that come from a disparity between active single LDS men vs single LDS women. At the same time, it isn't the fault of the remaining active LDS single men that others choose to become less active members. And in Utah, while LDS single men might appear to hold an advantage, once they are married the women tend to hold the greater balance of power due to cultural bias in how Utah family law is applied.

    This isn't a one-way street and a man has every reason to choose very carefully in this day and age.

    As for Church leaders, some posters are critical but most of us don't mean to be. At the same time, among many men of the Church, there is a perception that men are addressed much more sternly than women at Conference time.

    President Burton's talk really was refreshing.

  • equusrider4 Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 1, 2015 8:41 a.m.

    Lot of woman bashing going on. I have listened to every General Conference for years and have yet to hear the women bash the men, or the men, the women. I have heard from woman speakers that we, as women, in the church, need to live up to and respect the men in our lives, and from the men speakers, the men need to live up to and respect the women in their lives.
    As a life-long single woman, Im flabbergasted by singles who can't stand the thought of being single; they are so desperate to marry, the choice they make may not have been the best one. I would have liked to marry, but it didn't happen through no fault of mine that I can see. But the lessons I have learned along the way have been invaluable. Like the lesson that I can very effectively take care of myself. I don't need the validation of marriage to prove my self worth, And that there are far worse things in life than being single. In the end, I know Heavenly Father will make all things fair and right and I'm at peace with that.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:15 p.m.

    When I was in a singles ward in my early 30's, I met a gal that had been dating a guy for over 3 years and he had no talk whatever of getting married. When she told me she was tired of it, I asked if she really wanted to nudge him one way or the other and if she could live with it going either way, rather than continuing wasting her time. She agreed and we put in a plan of action. The next Sunday we sat together in Church and held hands, making eyes at each other during the meeting. When her regular boyfriend called on Wednesday for their usual Friday date, she was to tell him "Sorry, I can't go this week." If he wanted to know why, she was supposed to say "I'm busy; I have plans." She did and he insisted on seeing her on Saturday and when they met he proposed to her. He got the message and she was thrilled. I laughed about how quickly he responded.

  • Jack Aurora, CO
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:12 p.m.

    @Michael Hunt,
    i'm curious about your description of Church defined manhood. I define it as being honest, ethical, faithful to your wife, have an honest job and honoring your covenants. Giving time to your church tends to keep selfishness at bay and builds character. Other than that, I can't imagine a cookie cutter "Stepford husband" type supposedly required by the Church. They don't specify your career, don't demand a certain profession or income level. There may be some members who unrighteously do, but the Church doesn't.

    Is there another kind of man that you prefer to be?

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:03 p.m.

    So many comments against the Brethren. It makes me wonder who these younger generation think they ought to look to for advice and counseling, or even as a role model, perhaps.

    I married at age 37 and passed a few opportunities when younger but I absolutely made the right decision as it turns out. I remained active and committed that entire time. But I had to decide I wanted to marry when I did, which is what may be missing for many young men.

    Young women give signals to men, far too often, of two extremes: Either they are sooo busy with life, education, work etc that they have time for anything BUT a man, or they are waiting in a white dress at the door of the temple with a bouquet in one hand and a recommend in the other, waiting to see who happens to wander by. They need to balance the two, as do the men, and BE the person instead of just looking FOR the person top marry.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 6:29 p.m.

    So these men are supposedly looking for the perfect mate. Apparently these men feel they are perfect and want that match. Are they perfect or using this as an excuse.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 6:16 p.m.

    Young men want sex when they're 18. They do not want to get married when they're 18. Before then we should teach them, men and women, about sex more. Especially birth control. And pressure them less to marry.

  • Kronk Blackfoot, ID
    Aug. 31, 2015 6:00 p.m.

    The societal drift affecting men in general has also affected LDS men. It is no mystery why many men are less prone to marriage than they used to be. To some extent it is the same reason why there are generally less active LDS men than LDS women. One word: Pornography.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    Aug. 31, 2015 5:21 p.m.

    I worked for a business once whose business model became obsolete through external factors (especially the internet) and did not/could not change fast enough to mitigate those factors. Perhaps we are seeing that here.

    My sons are more "self-actualized" than I was. By that, I mean that they want to express creativity, seek knowledge, and contribute to society today. They do not want to be spoon-fed and take orders in a top-down system managed by older men. In fact, they view older men as being in their way to higher achievement rather than as being helpful. They do not want to attend meetings to learn their duty and what is expected of them, but rather to have ideas and problems presented to them for consideration and action. The (authoritarian) environment in Sunday meetings is antithetical to their personalities.

  • Mongoose Poway, CA
    Aug. 31, 2015 5:16 p.m.

    Wait - you mean maybe the Bishop that told me I wasn't married because I didn't have enough faith might have been wrong?

  • dimelo PEYTON, CO
    Aug. 31, 2015 4:34 p.m.

    I think a lot of the problem comes down to a very authoritarian or steep top-down hierarchy, much more than ever before in the church, and this leaves out a lot of men, especially men just trying to start out. The emphasis is all on older Apostles and such, and many younger men leave when they perceive not much is addressing their needs and concerns. Lack of incentive can drive away a lot of men. Contrast that to the lack of hierarchy that will result when the Savior, who's right it is to reign, does reign and all will be made equal with him and family will be more elevated as the governing structure.

  • Alfred Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 31, 2015 4:09 p.m.

    @Llew40:
    "LDS single men are very outnumbered by single females..."

    That could be because men are killed in wars. Women rarely are because men fight our wars. Women don't. Women are supposed to stay home and have babies. Millions of (young) men have died, over the millennia in wars. That will soon change, though, when women are required to register for the draft and actually go to war with their male counterparts.

    @Nosea:
    "I have had the same thoughts as many are expressing here -- General Conference is always about how wonderful women our..."

    The speakers at the conferences are reluctant to get critical with women. Actually, it carries back to childhood where the father was the disciplinarian and the mother was the parent who provided the love.

  • JLAY SLC, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 4:00 p.m.

    It isn't hard to find a good guy to marry. it is hard to find a good guy to get sealed to. Cause lots of the good guys are leaving or are not attracted to the LDS church. Doesn't mean they aren't good guys, but good guys who are happy living a life separate from the church. If you can stomach that, give them a try. If not... have fun being single...

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Aug. 31, 2015 3:54 p.m.

    Fascinating subject. The gender gap among active LDS single young adults seems to be widening. And, I think one of the readers put their finger on the cause: More young men than young women are going inactive. So, whatever the church has been doing about retention of young men does not seem to be working. Maybe the church should try something different. But, maybe it already is doing something different with the lowering of mission ages. Also, maybe the single young women could be more involved with reactivating the single young men. The gap obviously needs to be closed as quickly as possible.

  • illuminated St George, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 3:32 p.m.

    The title of this article has changed since this morning. It originally started with "It's not you". The first line still puts the blame on men, but it's a baby step at least.

    I think people are so conditioned to think with a slanted, female-biased mindset, they don't even realize what they're doing. Just standing in the checkout line, I see men getting berated by their wives and girlfriends all the time. Male psychological abuse is so rampant, it has been normalized.

    The "Suitable male" has become an impossible bar to reach, and articles like this push it. After nearly 60 years of feminism and the attempt to turn "brutes" into perfect gentlemen, marriages are failing more than ever. Maybe it's time to question this paradigm?

    No, of course not, "it's not your fault ladies, it's just that we haven't pushed men enough to try harder!". So they push and push and push, until men give up. And that's what is happening, they're leaving because it isn't worth it anymore. They're sticking to their hobbies instead, and that only makes these women and their white knights angrier.

  • OC Surfer Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
    Aug. 31, 2015 2:33 p.m.

    Actually within the LDS Church, the number of single men and single women are fairly the same, it's just more single men inactive in the Church than single women. No one really reaches out to those inactive single men at all(especially the single women who say often "it's not their job to reactive men") .

    I just find the fact so many LDS Single men feel marginalized, kicked to the curb, and unappreciated to be extremely sad. Meanwhile LDS single women without having any empathy, all expect men to "man up" and sweep them off of their feet, through no effort on the women's part.

  • Chancey Sandy, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 2:25 p.m.

    "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach." Isaiah 4: 1.

  • Nosea Forest Grove, OR
    Aug. 31, 2015 2:11 p.m.

    I have had the same thoughts as many are expressing here -- General Conference is always about how wonderful women our, and how great the leaders are, but the rest of the men in the church are somewhere just above pond scum in value. In reality most of us from our daily lives know better, as women contribute to many problems sometimes more than men do in our society and leaders are not always so much greater as they purport.

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 1:59 p.m.

    Interesting commentary everyone. I look forward to the day when men in the church receive more support. As others have said it gets tiring to hear the gentle and uplifting manner to which the women are always addressed, it's in stark contrast to how the men are talked to in priesthood session. There are definitely differences between the genders, but perhaps those differences are not as vast as we have been led to think. Men struggle emotionally too, men often feel inadequate too, men struggle trying to find balance in their lives just like women, and gasp, sometimes men even compare themselves to other men and think they aren't good enough.

    Sigh, well at least I can look forward to my one yearly article on here around fathers day telling me why I am awesome.

  • Llew40 Sandy, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 1:58 p.m.

    As a never married LDS single woman over 35, this article nails it.
    LDS single men are very outnumbered by single females and can therefore find every excuse in the world to "play the field" They absolutely have the upper hand when it comes to Date-o-nomics thanks to the wide selection offered at the "singles ward buffet"
    Indeed, we should pity the LDS single man for being so picked on, subjugated, and objectified. With so many plain and homely single ladies with their college educations who will only divorce these righteous men after exchanging the "I do's" is it any wonder these single women only have themselves to blame for remaining single while the men continue to search, hope and pray they might find someone to marry?
    After reading the comments posted above, perhaps the article should've been titled "Why it's so hard for MEN in religious communities to find WOMEN to marry"

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 1:21 p.m.

    @illuminated
    "Men are the real gender objectified in our society"

    Says the person who forgets that a large percentage of women have jobs these days but considers them all housewives...

  • CPA Howard Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
    Aug. 31, 2015 1:10 p.m.

    Simple solution, bring back polygamy. With the advent of same sex marriage, loving someone is all you need to get married. If the state refuses to issue you a marriage license, assert your civil rights under the 14th amendment have been violated and you're being discriminated against because you want to have a legally sanctioned committed loving relationship with multiple women. If you're denied this basic state sanctioned right to marry another person who has reached the legal age for marriage in the state you reside, you should sue to have that right.

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 12:57 p.m.

    @ Samuel the Liberalite,

    Hehehe... You reminded me of how I've summarized General Conference meetings:
    "Sisters, you're awesome! Just keep being awesome. Brethren, repent, you sorry lot!"

    Perhaps that is why I was so touched when I heard President Linda Burton's talk this last April. It was a surprising breath of fresh air to hear the men of the Church portrayed in a hopeful manner.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 31, 2015 12:50 p.m.

    The church has moved from sole management to community management to the now corporate management on the path to oligarchy theocracy, a major erosion at the base should be expected. The church needs to reorganize from bottom up to address the problem.

  • Miss Piggie Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 31, 2015 12:40 p.m.

    @illuminated:
    "How often do you hear this from female members?"

    Female members have no need or desire to eulogize their male counterparts. Females hold the upper hand in the basic fundamentals of sexuality... They do the 'attracting' while the male is the 'attracted.' And they enhance their power by their dress, hair styling, makeup, exposure, etc. You don't see men wearing low cut shirts or hiked up pants, do you? And, look around in church... what do you see? Women can wear a endless variety of clothing styles, colors, and shapes. What do men were? A suit, tie, and white shirt... which is taught from youth and dictated by church authorities.

  • Samuel the Liberalite Farmington, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 12:18 p.m.

    Why it’s so hard for women in religious communities to find men to marry

    ==========

    Boy,
    Where to begin...

    I think women bring most of this on themselves --

    1. Normal mortal men will never be Jesus Christ.
    2. Women are taught they are Princesses, and never settle for God's "2nd" best.
    3. Men must marry to get into the Celestial Kingdom, do not.
    4. If a woman is divorced, the congregation judges "HIM" as the being the reason for it.
    5. General conference is NEVER judgmental towards women, but usually is towards men.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 11:45 a.m.

    maybe due to the 'war on women' men now are fearful of offending women and getting suied thus they have to be picky? Just a thought. Maybe the Fed Govt should add a new 'single tax' to men who aren't married by 26. Just trying to think like a liberal.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    Aug. 31, 2015 11:20 a.m.

    If anyone submitted a letter which made broad and unpleasant generalizations about what "Mormons want" or "Mormons think", it would be denied in a heartbeat. As well it should be.

    But you have several letters already printed which make unpleasant commentary about what women, as a group, want, or intend, or how they regard marriage. None of these were flagged for being disruptive or speculative. Why not?

  • illuminated St George, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 11:18 a.m.

    @Michael Hunt

    It's true. How many times do you hear the following or something close to it at Church by married men about their wives: "my better half", "more naturally in-tune with the Spirit", or "I'm so grateful she puts up with me". I hear it almost every Sunday. How often do you hear this from female members?

    Why should any partner in the marriage be treated superior to the other just because of their gender? Men are groomed from primary onward to feel ashamed to be male, and that they are always supposed to be subservient to women.

    This trend isn't going away or diminishing, it's actually growing because of feminists both inside and outside the Church getting their way.

    The irony is that many believe the lie that it has been the other way around. The fact that women spend most of their lives taken care of financially by their husbands has been warped to signify that they are being repressed and held back. Men are told to help more around the house, and when they comply, it's still not good enough. They're still the victims, we're endlessly told.

  • Scott H Ogden, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 11:04 a.m.

    Two of my sons are members of a YSA ward at the university they attend. Ward boundaries are geographically determined and the vast majority of ward members are students. But somehow my boys' ward bucks the broader demographic trend among YSA wards in the area, since it is heavily lopsided on the male side. This makes ward social events as awkward for my sons as is the case for women in YSA wards with a larger female membership. While the larger demographic trend is notable, all demographics affect people in a very localized manner as well.

  • Michael Hunt Murray, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 10:31 a.m.

    After leaving the church shortly after a mission it's been an interesting spectacle to see the LDS marriage market become so gender-lopsided as the pressure on LDS male conformity continues to conflict with a basic understanding of human nature that is becoming more accessible thanks to various internet mediums. One would assume that those remaining are taking their time sifting through all the options to ensure the right choice, but there is more internal conflict among the men that needs to be accounted for. The choice men are struggling with isn't which particular woman to settle down with, but rather the trade off being presented where they are free to pursue a more authentic, self-driven ideal of manhood or the inauthentic, manufactured version from the church. I personally made the choice long ago and have never looked back.

  • Publius nota bene Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:45 a.m.

    "LDS doctrine 'also provides that those who are unable to marry in this life but remain faithful will have that opportunity in the eternities,' spokesman Eric Hawkins added."

    I hope people will not stake their chance for happy relationships in this life for the unsubstantiated hope of marrying after they're dead.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:42 a.m.

    After decades of males being pushed to the sidelines in schools, being taught by society (and primarily female teachers) that unless they act and learn like their female peers, they will be disciplined and medicated, is it any wonder men aren't rushing to fulfill their potential?

    There was an article on DN a few years ago about the war on boys, which was generally dismissed in the comment section. Unfortunately, there are too many people who make their livings making sure that men continue to feel guilt simply for being born male.

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:30 a.m.

    Fascinating article. I was not aware of the disparity between active LDS men vs LDS women until the last year or two.

    There are absolutely some cultural factors. For example, while I was at BYU it became trendy among coeds to say that they don't want to date or get serious with any man because they were going on missions instead. There may be an intimidation factor if a young man is getting his bachelor's degree and the woman he's dating is working on her master's degree. She may be in a better position to provide financially than he is.

    According to a neighbor who practices family law, nearly 90% of divorces in Utah are initiated by the wife. Considering how a man can be reduced to indentured servitude through child support and alimony, I can imagine how that would give a lot of potential suitors pause.

    Just a few variables to consider. I'm sure that there are many more.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:19 a.m.

    One more article from the religious types blaming men again. Could this article be any more demeaning to men and giving women a pass?

    I remember many talks and books and articles written by people in this state that perpetually blamed men for failed marriages and for the failure of women to get married.

    If the woman decides that "he doesn't understand me" or, he doesn't connect with me, or any other rather benign trait that she conjures up that may likely not be that big a deal, how are we surprised to learn that about 70% of divorces are filed by women? What man wants to be part of that and be saddled with paying years of alimony and child support while having his kids ripped from him?

    I think the problem lies with both women and men equally, for some differing reasons, yet with some common issues they collectively have.

  • illuminated St George, UT
    Aug. 31, 2015 9:06 a.m.

    Men Are Going Their Own Way (MGTOW). Marriage no longer has any legal value for men anymore. A woman has all the power to leave that marriage at any time, take half his assets, the children and his paycheck for years to come.

    For a woman, marriage is like getting a free EBT card, life insurance, and subsidized housing all in one. Once a man ties the knot, he is legally required to provide this to her. She has all the power to legally levy fines, jail, and public shame to him with absolutely no fear of reprisal.

    Men are the real gender objectified in our society. They are objectified like a utility, their ability to provide and sacrifice. When the ship goes down, they go down with it. When they are no longer able to, or no longer choose to do this, they are punished and eventually tossed away for a new, shinier replacement. As this article illustrates, they have nobody fighting for them, you see, it's all the males fault, no matter what. The woman always gets the benefit of the doubt and support in any situation.