Libertarianism is a Satanic counterfeit of righteous zeal for Liberty. It is a
poison for society. It promotes, rationalizes, glorifies and fosters malignant
greed and self-centeredness. Many employers, businessmen,
stockholders and landlords love Libertarianism since it validates in their minds
their proclivity for price-gouging, oppression and exploitation of workers in
their wages, digging a pit for their neighbors, taking unfair advantage of their
fellow man, and otherwise acting with little or no regard for society around
them. It's self-righteous mantra is "Free Market
Capitalism," but really the name of the game is, "Capitalism Without a
Conscience." Society is suffering increasingly and the nation
is being dragged further and further down as a result.
to 2 bits"Hmmm.... still want to call yourself a
"Libertarian"???"Lets look at some of the winners the
GOP has trotted out.. Sarah Palin... nuff said.[I do think you can
have your views... and still be a Libertarian, so I will never say
"You're not a Libertarian". Because like I said... we are all over
the place. But you should really know something about their platform before you
declare yourself a registered "Libertarian".]There are
different shades of Libertarianism. Give it a goog. Case in point... Gary
Johnson (the Libertarian candidate for Potus in 2012) differs from Ron Paul who
differs from his son.
I used to think libertarians were just slightly eccentric conservatives who
carried a few of the principles of conservatism too far. But now I'm
afraid it's come to the point where what divides conservatives and
libertarians outweighs the things they have in common. Too many libertarians
today don't stand for the traditional values that, for me any many others,
are a necessary part of the conservative philosophy
I am definitely not a libertarian. I would say I'm a good old fashioned
Republican, which nowadays means I'm a Democrat.
Republicans are personal libertarians. They want to tell others what to do, but
nobody should tell them what to do.
@ronnie So you are saying most the people you know that claim to be
libatarian are alright with government regulation as long as it is the states
that regulate individual freedoms? I I am sorry but that does not sound like
libatarianism it just sounds like a conservative tactic to do an end around the
federal consitutional protections of individual rights.
@2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTBoy -- had to dig really REALLY
deep just to throw some mud...32 years.I'll repeat for you, I've been a Libertarian for 27 years, therefore, I never voted for
David Koch 32 years ago.BTW -- I'd also like to point -- You
Failed, you couldn't do it without having to look it up, could you?
F- Now, would you and your "ilk" please either STOP calling
yourselves Libertarians, or BE the Libertarians yo SAY you are --
support Same Sex marriage, legalize marijuana and victimless
crimes, stop meddling in Foreign affairs and waging wars, stop using
our Military for Global Police action, reform immigration laws, STOP
handing out money to WallStreet and subsidizing Corporations and Businesses, Show some integrity, be consistantthere's and old saying --
either buck-up or shut-up. Let the stoning continue...I'm used
@Open Minded Mormon,About challenging people with questions like
"Who was the Libertarian candidate last election"...Remember
who the Libertarian nominee for VP was in 1980??If you said David H.
Koch (yes... of the Evil Koch Bros)... you would be right.This is
from Wikipedia..."David H. Koch was a Libertarian Vice-Presidential
candidate in 1980. He advocated the abolition of Social Security, the FBI, the
CIA, and public schools"...Hmmm.... still want to call yourself
a "Libertarian"???=====================I do. I
know what it means. It doesn't just mean you are an "Independent"
or not a lock-step walking zombie (like the people in the 2 organized political
parties).I do think you can have your views... and still be a
Libertarian, so I will never say "You're not a Libertarian".
Because like I said... we are all over the place. But you should really know
something about their platform before you declare yourself a registered
"Libertarian".==========The Koch Bros are often
vilified by hard-core Democrats. I think I've even heard YOU vilify them
at times. But you know they are STAUNCH Libertarians... don't you???
RedShirtCalTechPasedena, CATo "LDS Liberal" you may have
registered as libertarian, but your views are socialist. You claim one thing
wile promoting the complete opposite.========= YOU are a
Republican, and as such -- YOU have no right to define me.
To "LDS Liberal" you may have registered as libertarian, but your views
are socialist. You claim one thing wile promoting the complete opposite.Also, FYI, this article is not talking about people who are part of the
Libertarian party, but is about people who follow the libertarian philosophy.To "2 bits" no, it isn't possible to be libertarian and a
socialist. Those are opposites. You can't be against big government at
the same time you are for it. You can be a socialist and a member of the
Libertarian Party, but you are not ideologically a libertarian.
2 bits:I agree that the Libertarian Party needs more structure and
organization but this is typical of younger parties in general. I would say they
are improving their communication and tightening down their platform to a
clearer message, so it will be interesting to see how it progresses moving
@Kayser (11:03 a.m),It's very possible to be a Libertarian and
also have some Socialist sympathies or views. They aren't mutually
exclusive.That's the thing with being a Libertarian... they
don't exclude ANYBODY (unlike the 2 political parties). That's why
vocal atheists (like Penn Jillette, of Penn & Teller) as well as outspoken
evangelicals, and business men (like the Koch Brothers), and crazy people (like
Glenn Beck) are ALL welcomed into the fold, and not required to disavow their
personal views to call themselves a "Libertarian".It's
a broad tent. It's just so broad that they can't agree on something,
and therefore can't get a unified view or "platform" out there in
the media (because they are all over the place).But you are welcome
to be a Libertarian (christian or not). And you are welcome to be a
Libertarian (rich OR poor). You are welcome to be a Libertarian (Socialist or
Constitutional Fundamentalist). That's the beauty of it!
re: Say No to BO"As I said above, let the Libertarians stand on
their own and tell us their platform. No more co-opting the GOP.Stand on your
own and tell us what you believe and leave the Republican Party alone."Unlike the GOP, there is not 1 flavor of Libertarian. I'd bet LDS
Lib & I have a few common political beliefs. But, we differ more than 1 size
fits all that some of the Tea Party/Social Conservatives that post frequently on
the DN do.Poor Republican party? If it weren't for
Reagan's inclusiveness of the Goldwater wing; he would NOT have gotten
elected. You want the Libertarians to go away? Why then did Faux
news have both Stossel & Judge Napolitano on the air for awhile?
Some commenters here need to read the Libertarian platform. The gross
misunderstanding of it's contents exhibited here is an example of why
politics is so dysfunctional these days. We stand ready to defend or ready to
accuse depending on which side of the bipartisan aisle we sit on without care to
study the facts...instead believing whatever the latest and greatest talking
head in our party leads us to believe. Please, for your own sakes, study the
Libertarian platform and then ask yourselves if it doesn't more closely
resemble the ideals of our forefathers and the constitution they wrote than the
rhetoric being thrown around in the Republican and Democratic parties. Many of you are trying to paint the Libertarian Party as a band of lawless
anarchists when nothing could be further from the truth. It's not laws they
are opposed to, it's who's enforcing them, and on whom it is being
enforced. It's whether those laws are constitutionally justifiable
considering individual rights. After reading the platform, please delve into the
writings of Jefferson and Madison and ask yourself if the Repub & Dem
platforms are as close to their words as the Libertarian.
As I said above, let the Libertarians stand on their own and tell us their
platform.No more co-opting the GOP.Stand on your own and tell us
what you believe and leave the Republican Party alone.
Irony GuyAs long as it doesn't hurt anybody else then you are
right. But if you think that includes breaking the law, I think you got that
confused for something else.
Just to show how ignorant Utahns are of "Libertarians"...Red
signifies RepublicansBlue signifies DemocratsWhat color
signifies "Libertarian"? Part IIAn
Elephant is the Republican mascot, A Donkey is Democrat mascot, What is the Libertarian mascot?Part IIIWho was the
Libertarian candidadte last election, or before that, or before
that?If you can not answer any of those simple elementary questions
without looking them up, then YOU clearly are not a Libertarian.Say it all you want, but you are NOT.
Libertarianism is known within my religious tradition as "Mahanism."
It's the philosophy that I can do anything I darn well please to get gain
and you have no right to stop me.
I took one of those online political orientation quizzes recently. The
interesting thing is that it found I agree with libertarians 60% of the time,
and I agree with socialists 60% of the time. So it is possible to hold divergent
positions on different issues. Either that or I'm schizophrenic.
I think a LOT of Utahs are Libertarian in their views (it's not a
one-size-fits-all type of philosophy you know), but most of them end up deciding
to vote Republican because they want their vote to count, and the absolutely
positively DON'T want the Democrat.Now... IF Democrats could
bend their platform to be a LITTLE more Libertarian... I think it may go the
other way someday in Utah (where these people are not necessarily a Democrat,
but they agree mostly with them and absolutely don't want the Republican,
so they vote Democrat). It has in the past.It's up to the
Democrats to come back to us (IMO)... Do I think it will happen?...
Not a chance...
original state motto: MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS Pretty sure the original pioneers
could be called Libertarians
Not libertarian enough unfortunately. Nothing would make me more happier than to
see the party purge the United States Government of all these war mongering
tyrannical neoliberals and neocons.
Most Conservatives "claim" to be Libertarian -- but are NOT!I have been a registered "Libertarian" for over 27 years.and I
get HAMMERED by Utah Republicans and fellow Latter-Day Saints for it daily.Utah is about the most Anti-Libertarian state in the Union.
@ Ronnie W.Libertarian philosophy is simple (unrealistically):
government should protect life, liberty, and property and prohibit no conduct
that does not (supposedly) infringe on the rights of others. All policy
positions flow from that simple principle. If you don't support the
policies that follow from it then maybe you are a libertarian politically but
not philosophically. By the way, the national libertarian platform
specifically says that government should have no role in regulating abortion;
thus, abortion should be available to anyone who chooses it. That doesn't
mean the party is "pro" abortion but the consequence would be that
abortion is legal.
The problem with Libertarians and the comments above intended to stereotype them
(assuming they are like a traditional political-party that think the same and
can be organised) is... Libertarians aren't into group-think, or
party-rhetoric. They are mostly "divergent strands". They don't
all believe or want the same things. They wont carry one unified banner.
Because of this... they are IMPOSSIBLE to organize, they won't work
together, they don't support the same things, work towards the same things,
vote for the same things... because they are so divergent and all over the
place.It's been said that Libertarians will never win a big
election because... they can't be organized and work together. Some say,
"Organizing Libertarians is like herding cats".... they are so
distracted and going every which way, you can't get a real movement going
(because there are so many divergent movements going so many different
directions). They disagree with each other. They fight each other. They end
up defeating their own candidates most of the time.==========The usual political-attack tactic of grouping them and saying, "They
all want this... or that"... don't work with Libertarians and
@slcdenizen"The largest demographic that sways libertarian: mid
to late twenties, semi-employed, semi-educated, speaks more about the philosophy
than anything else."Lies. I looked it up and only 1/4 of self
defined libertarians are under the age of 30. I am all for a discussion but is
had to be based on truth.
@The Jimmer"It appears you are not fully familiar with the
libertarian platform or libertarian philosophy. "I am familiar
with your definition. I just don't agree with it. As a Libertarian, I
would say you can't really tell me what I believe. It's the same as
when people tell Mormons they aren't Christians. Libertarians come in all
shapes and sizes as do republicans and democrats. Ron Paul himself,
is strongly pro-life and introduced a bill to define life at the moment of
conception at the federal level. He is definitely not for abortion. If Ron
Paul isn't a Libertarian then no ones is.
The Libertarian Party Platform is available for all to read. Google it.I don't agree with most of the planks of their platform. That
doesn't mean that they are wrong and I am right; it simply means that our
politics are different.Being against government regulation
doesn't make me a Libertarian.Being against the transfer of
wealth from the worker to the indolent doesn't make me a Libertarian.Being for private property rights without interference from government
doesn't make me a Libertarian.All of us share a commonality of
ideas. When we strengthen the common points of interest and discuss the points
that differ, we progress.
The best education one can provide a libertarian is a leadership role, or
position of consequence that requires trade-offs. They'll swiftly change
their passionate beliefs. The largest demographic that sways libertarian: mid to
late twenties, semi-employed, semi-educated, speaks more about the philosophy
than anything else.
@Ronnie W."As far as social issues: abortion, same-sex marriage,
prostitution, libertarians aren't "for" these issues, they are just
in favor of letting the states decide."It appears you are not
fully familiar with the libertarian platform or libertarian philosophy. True libertarians advocate for live and let live; no victimless crimes;
utilitarianism, etc. They prefer state/local government to make decisions over
the federal government, but ideally they want no government involvement in these
I don't pretend to speak for the whole libertarian movement, but most of
the ignorance I have seen on these boards indicates to me most people don't
know what is means to be a Libertarian. As far as social issues:
abortion, same-sex marriage, prostitution, libertarians aren't
"for" these issues, they are just in favor of letting the states
decide.@Say no to BO - Your "serious problems" are mostly
lies. I am a libertarian and I don't think any of the things you listed
are things I am supposedly for. It's funny you say an "extreme"
approach to slashing government. Is being against outrageous government and
against going into debt trillions of dollars extreme? Bush and
Obama did little good for us. If any approach besides those two is
"extreme" I am afraid our fate is sealed.
Most laws we have protect society. Innocent people are hurt when predators are
allowed to run rampant. Making drugs legal helps the drug pusher, not the
innocent person who believes that he will never become addicted. Those who want
"freedom" must first realize that with agency comes accountability. Are
they willing to pay the cost of ruined lives that results when laws are
"In many ways, Utah seems like a prime state to accept a place in
Draper’s emerging libertarian America."Sure why not?Utah could lead the way by abolishing all victimless crimes.Casinos and bordellos could line the streets of Provo, and make unnecessary
those long commutes to Nevada for Utah's porn addicted denizens. Just think of the tax revenue Utah could rake in by allowing the sale of
high quality recreational drugs. With all of that revenue, personal state taxes
could be abolished, thus accomplishing another Libertarian goal.And
entrepreneurial possibilities would be greatly expanded in Utah . . . Beautiful
fields of Cannabis from horizon to horizon. And little Mom and Pop meth labs
competing to produce the very best product at the very lowest prices. And of
course, everything would be regulated for safety and quality purposes.Yes, Utah could be quite the Libertarian Utopia, couldn't it?
Most Utahns will dislike more libertarian policy positions than isolationism and
drug policy; they will also dislike legalized prostitution, same-sex marriage,
and abortion, among others.
I've found that most people who call themselves libertarians are really
just conservative Republicans who favor low taxes for the rich, no regulations
for business, and no social welfare programs. When it comes to social issues
they are not libertarian at all.
Conservatives share a few things with Libertarians, most notably less
regulation.But there are some serious problems with libertarianism.Legalizing street drugs.Decimating the Department of Defense.Lack
of support for Israel.Open borders.An extreme approach to slashing
government.The one thing that has boosted interest in Libertarians
is that they have co-opted the GOP primaries. They have no soapbox of their own
so they become an asterisk in the GOP campaigns. Personally, I think they should
get their own room and stand on their own principles.