Dick Harmon: Will Utah State, BYU be left behind as Power 5 conferences gain autonomy?

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  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Aug. 21, 2014 9:45 p.m.

    Stang0, I would love for you to document your one win in a hundred years for USU over BYU or Utah. If you actually want facts, the truth is:
    BYU vs USU 46-34-3
    Utah vs USU 78 29 4

    On the other hand your SUU birds have never beaten USU…and perhaps it will take a hundred years for that to happen.

  • Paul8777 Brigham City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2014 9:30 p.m.

    Knowing it would never happen, I suggest that maybe the schools that are not part of the "Fashionable 5" should band together, leave the NCAA, establish their own association and right this ship. Wish the NCAA good luck with their new found toy.

  • Stang08 Southern, UT
    Aug. 18, 2014 9:56 p.m.

    Kinda like the Utah 100 and USU 1 "rivalry" right tinplater?

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Aug. 17, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    Good luck regenerating the Colorado/Utah rivalry of 110 to 60 years ago! There has to be some connection between the two schools beyond fighting for the bottom of the Pac 12. Most Utah fans in my experience have no interest in U. Colorado at all, and seem to be much more interested in Arizona State, if you were to pick a rivalry. However a record of 6 loses to 19 wins doesn't generate much of a feeling of rivalry either, does it?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Aug. 17, 2014 2:44 p.m.


    Not so Mark. How can you say we won't be able to fill up our stadium, but I can't say we will? The fact that we HAVE been -- whereas you all have NOT -- more closely supports my position that we will. And furthermore, since CU WAS our top rival pre-1960, what evidence do you have to support that they can't be that team in the future? As a Utah fan and alumnus, I would be more disappointed to see Colorado off our schedule than our WACistani little brother.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    Aug. 17, 2014 10:44 a.m.


    "If Utah is the only P5 team in the state, do you think BYU or Utah State even have a chance at landing top in state recruits anymore?"

    Not only is BYU still landing top in state recruits, some of the top in state recruits that once chose Utah, are changing their minds and transferring to BYU - see Harvey Langi.

    How many top in state recruits will continue to choose Utah just so they can wear a PAC 12 logo on their jersey when, come bowl week, they see the recruits that chose BYU playing in a bowl, while Utah's recruits are sitting at home on the couch?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 17, 2014 10:14 a.m.

    Too much overreaction.
    Reforms will take place.
    There will be more inclusion than exclusion.
    USU will be fine in the MWC.
    byu will continue to be byu. I suspect that they will stay independent and be just fine. They will never be ND but their program won't decline either. However, as an independent, pandering for opinions and fishing for compliments will continue.

    Go Utes!

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Aug. 17, 2014 7:49 a.m.

    Of course the Utes will have an advantage with in state recruiting, always has, always will. However you miss the point. The Utes will be at a huge disadvantage recruiting against USC, UCLA, Standford, ASU, Oregon, Washington. The local Utah kids that the Utes cherry pick are not enough to compete against the kids recruited by the above schools from California, Arizona, Washington, Oregon, not to mention the rest of the country. Your "all star team" will finish last compared to the all star team from the other schools in the PAC except for possibly Washington State, Colorado, Oregon State.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 11:59 p.m.

    All of you saying the Utes would never compete with the other P5 teams once they take over college football don't see the full spectrum of what is going on. If Utah is the only P5 team in the state, do you think BYU or Utah State even have a chance at landing top in state recruits anymore? It will be Utah as the lone team in the state to take all the best recruits. It will essentially be a Utah/BYU/USU all star team. Utah will be just fine in this scenario.

  • Seldom Seen Smith Orcutt, CA
    Aug. 16, 2014 8:15 p.m.

    Previously an avid Utah Ute fan, I'm done with division I football and basketball. Everything comes to an end.

  • Mark3054 Lehi, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 6:42 p.m.

    Navel Vet:
    You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say that the Utah/Colorado relationship will again become a rivalry as it was 60 years ago (I've been around a long time and have never seen any resemblance of a rivalry between those schools). Yet, in the same comment, you say that Utah will continue to fill the stadium when, in reality, that has only been true the last 10 to 12 years. Why is it that history will repeat itself with a Colorado rivalry and not be true with the perpetual half-filled stadiums when Utah does not have winning seasons? I am not an anti-Utah fan. I want to see them succeed. But I am also a realist. There is zero empirical evidence that Utah will ever be more than an occasional flash-in-the-pan in the PAC12 (ala AU, ASU, WSU, OSU, CAL) and similarly, no historical basis that Utah fans will flock to watch the Utes lose. But, if you believe that Utah and Colorado will resume that once heated rivalry, it would seem logical that you would believe Utah fans fill the stadium to watch them lose.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Aug. 16, 2014 5:52 p.m.


    "I think the changing football climate favors the BYU fan over the Utah fan...If the BYU/Utah rivalry goes away as it might, Utah will not even have that game to look forward to (Colorado/Utah will never be the same as BYU/Utah). BYU can always have the BYU/Utah State game. I envision an empty RES and a packed LES after a few years."

    I think the changing football climate favors the Utah fan over the cougar fan, and nothing of your predictions will come to pass. For starters, the Utah-Colorado was at one point in Utah Football history our top rivalry game. There is no reason why it could be our top rivalry game pre-1960, but not at any point in our future. And as for attendance...YOURS is the stadium that can no longer fill up. Not unless Utah comes to town anyway. We're doing just fine in that department.

  • Mike Johnson Stafford, VA
    Aug. 16, 2014 5:38 p.m.

    >>>Remember the fact that just over 20 major college athletic programs operate in the black these days.

    Go look at Equity in Athletics, where every college or university (except the service academies) provides an annual report to the US Department of Education. None of the 128 Division I-FBS reported being in the red in any of the last four years. Most report breaking even. Some report making money--but as all are either public or not for profit, running a profit is interesting. Balancing revenues and expenses is what they need to do.

    This claim comes from the fact that most schools partially fund athletics--mostly for sports other than football or basketball--using student fees. Student fees are collected for all kinds of activities on campus, including music and drama departments, school newspapers, student government, and many others. There is a mistaken belief that if a school collects student fees for athletics, then athletics must be in red. Student fees is just one of the many revenue sources for a college athletics department. They plan their expenses bases on projected revenues from all sources.

  • rok Boise, CA
    Aug. 16, 2014 3:11 p.m.

    If the power 5 can pay their players and go by their own rules, why can't everyone else in college football, if they can afford it. The NCAA can't set up two different rules just because of who has the money. Seems like it would be struck down in court in a second.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Aug. 16, 2014 2:09 p.m.

    Lets not kid ourselves. At this rate, there will be fewer colleges, even those in the "Power 5" who will be able to sustain other sports programs because the money generated will have to go to STIPENDs, health insurance and such to support the football athlete. College Football will soon become like professional sports where contracts will be generated and Athletes will just go to the highest bidder thus condeming all the other sports.

    So much for the true love of the sport. This is why I never attend or pay for a sporting event. Too much greed which equates to rediculous prices.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 1:15 p.m.

    There are some possibilities that could emerge in the next decade, and new trends or brands will emerge:
    1- Should BYU drop football by later in the decade to remain in the WCC for their other sports, look for UVU to quickly fill that void.
    2- UVU will emerge as the 2nd most viable college sports brand in the state, supplanting Utah State who will be the doormat and poorest program in the MWC.
    3- By the mid to late 20s UVU will be challenging Boise State for MWC supremacy year in and year out.
    4- Utah State will substantially raise student fees yet again to bail out a perpetual $$$ losing athletic department.
    All of the above could happen and we could know more by 2016 when the BYU/WCC deal is up for renewal. The MWC could bring BYU back with a partial football schedule that includes 4-6 games to cover the latter 1/3rd of the season when BYU & ESPN has had difficulty filling the schedule (November games). Or the Big 12 could do the improbable & take BYU to stage a CCG & resume divisional play.

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    unless P5 conference bottom dwellers like Utah were willing to schedule one-and-dones or two-for-ones with the big boys, forcing Utah to play 6 or 7 road games every season.


    No need to do that. BYU already has it covered.

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 12:27 p.m.


    Therefore, USC, Stanford, Oregon will dominate the PAC12 in the future as they have done in the past.
    As they have done in the past? USC yes but Oregon and Stanford? Hardly. Not saying they aren't great teams now but these programs have only been dominating for the past 5 or 6 years. Before that Stanford was the whipping boy of the conference and Oregon was hot and cold.

  • CBAX Provo, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    If the Utes don't get the free win over BYU (coming years) and then can't play Idaho state. We're looking at 1-11

  • Mark3054 Lehi, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 10:38 a.m.

    As an alumnus of both the UofU and BYU, I have always cheered for both schools except during the rivalry game where I gave the nod to BYU. That being said, I think the changing football climate favors the BYU fan over the Utah fan. While BYU may end up being excluded from playoff opportunities by the arrogant and bigoted P5 conferences, Utah will also be excluded by the mere fact that they will rarely -- if ever -- be competitive in the PAC12 conference. For the average BYU and Utah fan, we will have to come to grips with BYU regularly having 9 and 10 win seasons playing less-than-stellar competition and Utah regularly have 3 and 4 win seasons against some outstanding competition. If the BYU/Utah rivalry goes away as it might, Utah will not even have that game to look forward to (Colorado/Utah will never be the same as BYU/Utah). BYU can always have the BYU/Utah State game. I envision an empty RES and a packed LES after a few years. Fans just don't support losers -- especially in Utah. I wish both programs well; but, I think Utah has an incredibly difficult (if not impossible) path.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    A playoff is a great system where the winner is chosen on the field not polls or percieved superiority. Oklahoma was supposed to kill Boise St a few years back or even BYU but it didn't happen. I don't care if the "power 5" think they are superior if the best of the non power 5 can go against them and have their shot. UCF did a good job against Baylor last year.

    The four team playoff is a start, but I'm hoping it goes to 8 and at least a couple of those slots should be reserved to the 5 "non power" conference teams. If they don't allow access there needs to be lawsuits or anti trust issues. The 5 "non power" conference teams also deserve to have proportional representation on the selection committee for the playoff teams.

    Why is the NCAA BB tourney so great? Teams like Butler have their shot. Who can say they didnt "deserve" to be in the final, despite not being from a "power 5" conference?

    Aug. 16, 2014 10:09 a.m.

    Whatever. Win and things go well. Lose and they don't. That is all that matters for football.

    As for the WCC - Basketball is not conference important. March Madness solves this problem. The season is fun, the games good and I am not more excited to see BYU play Oregon State that I am to see them play the University of San Diego.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    BYU has already been left behind and it already impacts the product on the field... BYU's schedule is littered with third tier opponents... and no matter what BYU's record their bowl game options are third tier at best.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    Rose Bowl

    In their desperation to see the demise of BYU football, the crimson-glasses wearers obviously haven't considered how devastating an all P5 vs P5 schedule would be for Utah.

    The Utes are already struggling with a 9-game P5 schedule.

    Taking away their automatic win over a Big Sky team, and adding three more P5 teams, would be the death knell to winning seasons and bowl games for the Utes.

  • JMH Provo, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    I get a kick out of the fans of the University of PAC 12 located in SLC. Once they clamored for change and now they say we are in and we don't care. Talk about hypocrisy. I travel throughout the PAC12 conference and in no other school do I see the number of PAC12 signs as Utah has put up.

    BYU will go forward because they have the financial resources to do so. They will continue to go forward because they have committed to do so. Some of the schools in the Power conferences will find themselves struggling and some may opt to get out of the rat race.

    The Big10 is still looking at two more schools and they openly have said they want to move to 14. That will force the Big 12 to react and the PAC12 to expand. Then BYU will be in one of those conferences (despite the religious bigots in California) and a lot of BYU fans will start to act like Utah fans. I remember Chuck Noll, coach of the Steelers, banning spiking the ball. Act like you expected to get there was his mantra.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    Gotta laugh at our jealous little friends from the hill who are so desperate to see the demise of BYU sports.

    They just can't accept the fact that BYU, as a Independent, non-P5, still has a better chance of making the playoffs than their perennially mediocre, conference bottom feeding program.

    B12 just doesn't understand that the P5s will NEVER go to an all P5 vs P5 schedule.

    Too many of the big boys like playing a 7-game home schedule, which would be impossible with an all P5 schedule, unless P5 conference bottom dwellers like Utah were willing to schedule one-and-dones or two-for-ones with the big boys, forcing Utah to play 6 or 7 road games every season.

    Poor Utah would never finish above .500 or play in another bowl game in that scenario.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Aug. 16, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    Nothing will change. The playoffs will consist of 4 of these teams: Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Stanford, Oregon, Florida, Florida State, Miami. Outliers will include occasional forays by Notre Dame and 2nd tier teams in conferences. WSU, Utah, OSU, Cal, ASU, AZ, CO will not reach the playoffs more than once a century, if ever.

    This disparity will be augmented by wealth and endowment. Therefore, USC, Stanford, Oregon will dominate the PAC12 in the future as they have done in the past. Utah, ASU, UA, Colorado will never be there and Washington maybe once in 20 years.

    BYU will continue to do its thing, Playoffs? At for teams? Never. At 8 teams, maybe once in 20 years.

    So lets enjoy football for its own sake and enjoy our wins and mourn our losses and get on with our lives.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 7:56 a.m.


    Does the MPSF intend to keep up?

    Don't kid yourself. This could affect thousands of non-revenue sport athletes from PAC 12 schools, including the Red Rocks, as well.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 7:30 a.m.

    Is everyone forgetting that in the end Congress will get involved in this? We are looking at years of debate and discussion. Don't everyone get their knickers in a knot!

  • TheNun Granstville, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 7:08 a.m.

    @ jina,
    Yes, and I would love to have a million dollars fall from the sky into my backyard. I think my wish will happen before yours.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    Aug. 16, 2014 6:09 a.m.

    As the price to maintain these programs continues to rise perhaps some universities will review what their mission is and try just educating students rather than run a farm team for the NFL.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Aug. 16, 2014 5:30 a.m.

    One element was left out of the article - who pays for all of this. Fans already pay an enormous amount for tickets. The only way to fund more is to get more out of corporate sponsors and the networks, especially ESPN. That means increasing cable and satellite fees. Schools in big metro areas and in well funded universities will move forward. The separation between the haves and the have nots started decades ago and moved up a notch with the BCS schools. The FBS arrangement further institutionalizes it in season scheduling and new ways of business model funding.

    Short answer - BYU already hasn't kept up - we failed to get into any kind of FBS consideration by not going to any BCS bowl. The train left us a long time ago.

  • Big 12 Call Yet? Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 12:36 a.m.

    Yes, and we(the power conferences) simply don't care.

    We will continue to take nearly all the money, nearly all the best athletes, all the spots in the playoffs, and we couldn't care less if it hurts mid majors. It's not our job to try and keep you in the national picture.

    We will soon be playing only each other and mid majors will never have a shot at anything noteworthy.

    Byu and usu's games against the big boys will soon decrease from 1-3 a year to zero.

    Yes, it will ruin your programs dreams of big time bowl games and playoffs.

    But we don't care.

    Ya, the truth hurts. That is, if you are a mid major.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2014 12:31 a.m.

    Of course they will be!

    And I will laugh and remind those programs the entire time. Wyoming, savannah state, usu, byu, and every other mid major will essentially become the new division II.

    If they want to schedule their own playoffs or something like that, fine. We don't care.

    But they will be even more irrelevant in the future than they are now.

    Bye bye mid majors. Your programs for all intents and purposes are over.

    It's a bad bad time to be an irrelevant mid major like usu and byu.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 15, 2014 11:20 p.m.

    the Y had its chance but was left out in the cold. TCU and Utah were taken instead to BCS conferences. BYU will have to settle for second tier status going forward.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Aug. 15, 2014 10:53 p.m.

    I think there is a danger that the "have-nots" may start sacrificing the non-revenue sports to keep from falling behind in football and basketball. That is something that everyone seems to lose site of.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2014 10:40 p.m.

    Maybe it's me but I think we are ready to take a long break from 'autonomy' and Power 5 talk and just focus on the football season.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 15, 2014 10:12 p.m.

    Dick Harmon: "MWC, American Athletic Conference, and BYU will do what is appropriate.”
    Does the WCC intend to keep up?

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Aug. 15, 2014 10:11 p.m.


    10CC obviously doesn't understand the simple economics of opportunity costs, that even IF every Utah athlete could have lifetime sports-related injury care performed at the U of U Medical Center, every second spent by doctors and staff caring for Utah athletes would cost the university a second of time that could be used to care for other patients. Every dollar saved would be offset by a dollar lost.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    Aug. 15, 2014 10:08 p.m.

    We are in front now and not behind like we were because our pac brothers like us now.

    Go Utes!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Aug. 15, 2014 9:47 p.m.


    Please explain to us why a University with a Medical School would have an advantage? Do you think that their health care would cost them less to provide? Are you suggesting that injured athletes could only get care from the School's Medical Facilities?

    I submit that that it won't make a dime's worth of difference. Athletes come from all over the country and move all over the place... Continued medical coverage is going to have to be available to them wherever they live or the school that restricts that coverage will be at a distinct disadvantage.

  • JinaYi87 Norman, OK
    Aug. 15, 2014 9:33 p.m.

    I would love to have both BYU and USU in the BigXII. That would actually put us up to twelve members. Both have quality football and basketball programs.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Aug. 15, 2014 9:30 p.m.

    BYU will be left behind.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 15, 2014 9:07 p.m.

    The most expensive piece of this will be lifetime health insurance for injuries sustained while being a college athlete. This aspect will dwarf the cost of stipends.

    As recruits learn of this benefit, part of recruiting may involve the quality of healthcare available from the school. Universities with medical schools and professors of medicine may have an advantage in attracting athletes, over schools that have physicians who are in general practice.

  • Kiboo South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2014 8:56 p.m.

    Do we really have to rehash this again??? The answer is maybe yes, maybe no - because at this juncture nobody knows.

    Let it go already.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Aug. 15, 2014 8:43 p.m.

    Of course bYu will be left in the dust. But it's probably for the best. bYu will continue to be on of the better teams of the leftovers. bYu fans demand wins and they will continue to get them.

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    Aug. 15, 2014 8:06 p.m.

    This is one market that is overdue for a correction.