University campuses have taken a one-sided view on Israeli-Palestinian conflict

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  • bj-hp Maryville, MO
    Aug. 14, 2014 6:30 a.m.

    Liberal Ted and UtahBlueDevil wants us to think that one is ignorant or that it is correctly taken that being highly educated (a degree) is to be left leaning. The problem is this is a false and a major fib. One just has to look at who the most educated people are and see that they are more moderate than conservative or liberal. They will also see that most the most conservative is highly educated and not in poverty. Whereas the most liberal is just the opposite.

    Educators as a whole are leftist in thinking and are socialist or communistic in their thoughts and have no respect or tolerance for the other. For one I am highly educated, not ignorant as Liberal Ted states but also not naïve enough to think otherwise. No neither Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would roll over in their graves as we look at the education process today compared to what it was 50 or 60 years ago. Some say they are smarter and that may be true but the only ignorant ones are those who fail to understand the prophesies we see being fulfilled right before our eyes.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Aug. 13, 2014 5:00 p.m.

    Academia leans left because if it does what it is supposed to be doing, it is challenging the norm, the given, the what is assumed to be true in a quest to find truth. Conservatism is all about preserving the status quo, and resists change in most of its forms. You see that born out here on a daily basis.

    Neither is inherently wrong... but both in their extremes both are negatives.

    What is worrisome is that academia by conservatives is now branded as leftist and elitism - seemingly always in the negative. Both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith would turn in their graves if they knew how mush in disdain church members hold academia, when the two of them both valued it so highly, and worked so hard to encourage educational pursuits within the churches membership.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    Cedar Hills, UT

    Gary - if you took a survey of public universities you would find that upwards of 75% lean heavily LEFT politically. What does that tell you Gary? What it SHOULD tell you is that academia

    12:19 p.m. Aug. 13, 2014


    It tells me that college educated people lean-left,
    and ignorant non-college people lean-right.

    So it comes as no surprise that Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck do not have college educations either...

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 12:19 p.m.


    Gary - if you took a survey of public universities you would find that upwards of 75% lean heavily LEFT politically. What does that tell you Gary? What it SHOULD tell you is that academia

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Aug. 13, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    Patriot –

    “It is interesting that most of these colleges and their liberal professors with all their academic insite are also so terribly ignorant and wrong about so many things in the world and this Israel”,

    “Wrong?” What makes you think they are wrong? As you already noted, THEY are the ones with the academic background and incite.

    Rush Limbaugh says something, and “Conservative” online commenters say the same thing a day later. That’s not incite.

    That’s just following the leader of the herd. Many “Conservatives” let demagogues do their thinking for them, and many are proud that they have NO academic background at all . . . As if ignorance were a badge of honor.

    Don't you find it problematic that Rush Limbaugh ridicules Liberals for being elitist academics AND "low-information folks" at the same time? Academia is the SOURCE of information and ideas. Our brilliant Founders were PROUD to be academics.

    “I think this makes the case why we need to raise the voting age to 25 years.”


    Good sense and true patriotism don’t necessarily increase with age . . . Obviously.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    Aug. 13, 2014 6:57 a.m.

    I said it was worrisome that the conflict in the Middle East would become a rally cry for anti-Semitism in this country. A comment recently made by Ultrabob has proved me prescient.

    Where are those who would condemn this veiled statement?

  • IDSpud Eagle, ID
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:31 p.m.

    @Stalwart Sentinel. Are you actually basing your argument on who was there first, which in my mind would equate to the way children react towards each other (I was here first!), and so they justify their actions accordingly? Historical precedence aside (regarding who was where first)I still maintain that if Hamas and other such groups would recognize Israel and lay down their weapons, Israel would continue and even accelerate their aid and support for the Palestinians, and the Palestinians would prosper. But I don't think Hamas really wants that - do they? Hamas and umpteen other Arab nations, on the other hand, would pounce on and destroy Israel in a heart beat -- should Israel lay down their weapons. Could it really be that simple? I actually think yes. The armchair quarterback in me would agree that Israel is being heavy handed and could approach this conflict in a way to lessen the collateral damage. Given the current Hamas approach to war, all collateral damage is unfortunately unavoidable.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 5:48 p.m.

    The attitude prevalent on any given university campus isn't necessarily 'taught' deliberately. Maybe it's just a more free place of exchange than the average student who can afford university grew up in. As to whether or not one should side one way or the other on this conflict, I don't know. I do see that we tend to suck up to Israel too much simply for it's religious context, however.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 5:34 p.m.

    Stalwart Sentinel
    (W)hat occurred in the 1947-48 timeframe that justified instituting Israel in the Middle East and dis-occupying the current inhabitants of that land?
    The best explanations are found on YouTube. Search for "the middle east problem" and "Do you pass the Israel test?" Both provide a brief history of the beginning of Israel. The Jewish efforts and success there brought in Arabs rather than kicking them out.

    When they receive these “warnings” where do you suggest they go?
    Israel's weapons are precise and level only the targeted building. Neighboring buildings remain unharmed. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing this.

    Of course, you could always prove me wrong by providing unassailable proof that the UN schools and hospitals bombed by Israel contained weapons caches, etc...
    UNRWA own website admits that Hamas stored rockets in their schools. The title of their website article - "UNRWA Condemns Placement of Rockets, for a Second Time, in One of Its Schools". When they found the rockets, they gave them back to Hamas rather than destroying them or turning them over to be destroyed.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 4:51 p.m.

    Re: "There is scant to no independent evidence Hamas has used human shields – pure propaganda."

    While we're on the subject of pure propaganda -- a carefully, disingenuously worded denial is the most recognizable and pernicious form.

    One could make your assertion true only by a cynical, misleading operational definition of the word "independent." And, since both Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces carefully control information entering or leaving Gaza, if the description of "independent" evidence is defined as coming from a source other than the combatants, yeah, most of the evidence would be described as something other than independent.

    But that is, of course, intentionally misleading. There are literally mountains of evidence, from both combatant factions, of the use of Gazans as Hamas human shields. And this mountain of evidence is strongly corroborated by each and every one of the few existing pronouncements by truly independent reporters, NGOs, and UN personnel.

    So, while a statement regarding the paucity of "independent" evidence may be technically correct, it is not, by any stretch of the imagination, true.

    Or relevant. Or honorable.

    All available evidence confirms Hamas' perfidy. And that of the deniers.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 4:19 p.m.

    I believe that the Israeli nation is an aggressor nation using religion to make their actions look legitimate. The notion that they are Gods chosen is all that it would take to make men believe they have the right to oppress others. My feelings are that religion can make good men do bad things if the religion tells them to.

    I resent that there are people in this country that call themselves Americans and yet have their major allegiance to a foreign nation.

    The reason for world turmoil is economic oppression and in the history of the world economic oppression has been under religious banners. And rightly or wrongly the Jews have been out front when there is aggression and oppression going on.

    I cheer the thinking reasoning part of America for standing for humanity over money.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 3:42 p.m.

    Kevin J. Kirkham
    Salt Lake City, UT

    That is called guerrilla warfare.
    Psychological warfare...
    and it is is how smaller, less armed, non-professional resistance groups beat larger, better supplied, better trained, professional armies.

    It isn't necessarily about winning "battles",
    as it is about winning the war of "public opinion" or perception.

    Rocky lost the boxing fight,
    but won the audience.

    It worked for the Vietnamese against Americans,
    the Taliban against the Soviet Union,
    Al Queda against the Amwericans,
    the Palestinians against the Israelis.

    Just about everything you listed was something invented by Americans in 1776.
    The British called them cheap shot, un-fair, cowardice, Yankees.
    You call them heros.

    History is always written by the victor.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Aug. 12, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    gmlewis – Thank you for your input, please review the UN’s definition of genocide and apply it to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people; genocide can be calculated and need not occur all at once. When Israel “alerts” Palestinians of incoming missiles that is nothing more than propaganda fodder – Gaza is one of the most densely populated regions on earth and their borders are sealed by Israel. When they receive these “warnings” where do you suggest they go? It’s literally like shooting fish in a barrel and then blaming the fish for not growing wings to fly away.

    There is scant to no independent evidence Hamas has used human shields – pure propaganda. Of course, you could always prove me wrong by providing unassailable proof that the UN schools and hospitals bombed by Israel contained weapons caches, etc.... Speaking of warnings, Israel was given dozens upon dozens of warnings from these institutions confirming they were operating as makeshift facilities to provide aid to the thousands of displaced civilians.

    To reiterate, Hamas must be held to account for their actions but so too must Israel.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Aug. 12, 2014 3:04 p.m.

    IDSpud – I appreciate the input but I ask that you expand on Israel’s right to exist and how you see that as valid rather than treat it as a foregone conclusion. True, they are currently a nation-state duly recognized by nearly all international organizations but what occurred in the 1947-48 timeframe that justified instituting Israel in the Middle East and dis-occupying the current inhabitants of that land? Why not create a Jewish state in Western Europe? Until these issues are resolved and the displacement of the longest-standing refugee camps in the world (Palestinians) have been provided with sufficient human rights protections then there will be no lasting peace. Hamas is deplorable but I submit that their power increasingly dissipates as the Palestinian people are treated as full-fledged human beings by occupying Israeli forces. Their educational opportunities are nearly non-existent and free enterprise is stifled to the point of suffocation. Israel cannot treat a civilization as sub-human and then expect the subjugated to issue their captors respect and reverence.

    America's role needs to be one of building coalitions to enforce the international rule of law against both sides.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:58 p.m.

    Israeli doctors treat sick/wounded Palestinians. Palestinians wouldn’t treat Israelis.

    Israel sends blood which is rejected by Hamas, even if the blood comes from Israeli Arabs.

    Palestinians said they’d build a hospital with concrete from Israel. They built terror tunnels instead.

    Israel minimizes civilian casualties by phoning/texting the residents of targeted buildings to get out and even drops noise bombs on buildings to warn residents. Hamas rockets, launched from schools and neighborhoods, ONLY targets innocent civilians.

    Israel puts innocent civilians in its bombshelters. Hamas puts their weapons and fighters in theirs and tells their civilians to stay in targeted buildings so there'd be plenty of civilian casualties for newscameras.

    Israel offered the Palestinians 96% of the land that they wanted for statehood but they said no.

    If Hamas laid down its arms, there'd be peace. If Israel laid down its arms, there'd be a bloodbath.

    Universities don't care about right/wrong. Universities are so insular. Rightwing speakers, if invited, need bodyguards and are often shouted down. Liberals get a free pass. They reject diversity of thought sticking only to PCism. They are seminaries for the religion of Leftism.

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    Personally I would like to see a little more even handed reporting on Issues regarding Israel.

    It is posted as an Editorial. Do a group of people write it together or does one individual write it who is a member of the board?

    An interesting question. Do out of state posters seem to support one side or another on this issue?

    Why is that?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:52 p.m.

    re:Open Minded Mormon

    Yes I do have the right idea and here is why. Age - 65 years - is NOT old. In fact many CEO's of major corporations are 65 to 70. Also those in advanced age - perhaps 80 years+ still have something the college age kids don't have and that is common sense and maturity. They may be slow and their computer skills may be lacking but they voted all the way back to FDR and they understand the cheap artifical nonsense that many poltitians throw out there and they understand that EVIL does exist in the world having seen Adolt Hitler first hand. These college age kids - many of them - have little understanding of basic world issues other than what they are fed by their left wing radical professors which by the way is about 20% fact and 80% false ideology. Young kids are VERY impressionable and until they mature they tend to just go along without doing ANY investigation at all. Perhaps the main problem with young kids is they tend to make decisions ALL based on EMOTION and not logic.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:03 p.m.

    Cedar Hills, UT
    I think this makes the case why we need to raise the voting age to 25 years. Most of these young kids just aren't intellectually mature enough to grasp or investigate complex issues.

    1:07 p.m. Aug. 12, 2014


    It cuts both ways --

    I think yours then makes the case why we need to halt the voting age to 65 years. Most of the older folks just aren't intellectually capable anymore to grasp or investigate complex issues.

    Still think you have the right idea?...

  • Spangs Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    I really don't think anyone on a campus or otherwise can make a case supporting Hamas. They are a backward bunch, to be sure. What I think these college students and others are trying to say is that between the Israeli military and the Hamas militants are over a million Palestinian civilians that live in some of the worst conditions in the world and children die in the crossfire. This is a horrible tragedy.

    Israel AND Hamas are complicit in this tragedy and it is the fault of both groups. So who is justified in murdering all of these innocent people? The answer is neither, and both Israel and Hamas should be held responsible.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:56 p.m.

    "I think this makes the case why we need to raise the voting age to 25 years. Most of these young kids just aren't intellectually mature enough to grasp or investigate complex issues."

    It is largely these same 25 year olds and younger that spearheaded and did most of the work in the civil rights movement. Sometimes what is wrong is just really obvious.

    Here is where I think many people have a problem with what Israel is doing - or at least how the tactics appear. I think it boils down to that we hold them to a higher standard of expectations than we do other groups of people. Most believe that if any society should be sensitive to innocents becoming collateral damage in a war of ideologies, that it would be Israeli people.

    No one expects Israel to not defend itself.... but we do expect them to take more caution before going after HAMAS, particularly when it takes out a UN school and kills kids in the process. This round of the conflict started when innocent kids were killed.... killing more kids will not resolve it.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    I think this makes the case why we need to raise the voting age to 25 years. Most of these young kids just aren't intellectually mature enough to grasp or investigate complex issues.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    Not to beat a dead horse, 2 bits, but take a look at the "Non-Proselyting Agreement" on the website you referred me to. I quote: "I will not invite guests who are not LDS to attend Church services held in the Holy Land." This is the promise made by everyone affiliated with the University. I'm not making this up, believe me. Not a big deal with respect to the topic, but I'm trying to point out that we in the U.S. do have some different values and interests, and while Israel is our ally, we do have divergent interests at times and don't need to blindly approve of everything they do. Criticism from friends is acceptable and not anti-religious as some seem to suggest.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    @2 bits -- My friends were allowed to enter the BYU Jeruselem Center. But they WERE NOT allowed to attend church. Not because it was against their religious law, but because it was against the civil law of the state of Israel for Israeli citizens to attend a church service. Not a concert. A sacrament meeting. They were surprised by it as well.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:39 p.m.

    Check with your Israeli friends again. It may be against some religious law to attend Church at the BYU Jerusalem Center. But it's not against any Government law for them to attend meetings or concerts at the BYU Center.

    They have music recitals and speakers in the large auditorium, and they are well attended (and not only by BYU students). The BYU Jerusalem Center houses only 170 students at a time. But it has a 250-seat auditorium. So they probably welcome visitors.

    Google "BYU Jerusalem Center" - Wikipedia. You may learn something.

    You may be surprised to learn that during construction about 60% of the workers hired were Arab and the other 40% being Jewish (providing a needed bridge between Arabs and Jews). Similar cooperation continues today (which is a good thing).

    Google it... read up on it... then you will know what you're talking about. Nobody's prevented by any government law from attending any meeting or cultural event at the BYU Jerusalem Center.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:39 p.m.

    Re: "Most of the people they [Israelis] have killed are children and women."

    While there's no proof that most victims are women and children, it is true that most are identified by Hamas as civilians. But, even assuming we believe Hamas' characterization of the victims [big assumption], it was using every civilian killed as a human shield, which is a grave breach [war crime] of, not only the Law of War, but of the rules of any civilized society. Many were also being used by Hamas as human shields in hospitals, schools, and UN facilities -- another grave breach.

    The universally-recognized Law of War is clear -- responsibility for their deaths rests with the war criminals [Hamas], not with Israel.

    Accepting the Hamas theory, that they were somehow created by us or by Israel's settlement policy is simply not borne out by history. The grandparents of these terrorists were committing predatory war crimes against Jews before Israel even existed. And, their more distant ancestors [Philistines] were doing the same as far back as their foreign invasion of the Levantine coast during the reign of Pharaoh Ramses III.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:35 p.m.

    It is interesting that most of these colleges and their liberal professors with all their academic insite are also so terribly ignorant and wrong about so many things in the world and this Israel / Hamas war is a classic example. Hamas attacked Israel yet these young, uninformed kids on college campasses reply on their radical leftist professors to inform them instead of doing the research for themselves. If the kids did actually do real research on their own - which would take about 30 minutes - they would find that Israel is the victim trying to defend its homeland and the terrorist group Hamas is the aggressor firing rockets into Israel and using their own people as human shields. These are the facts yet if you interview some of these college kids you get a deer in the head lights look when you mention this stuff. So much for acadamia. I think this is also a classic example of how imposters like Barack Obama get elected - complete ignorance and intellectual imaturity on the part of electorate....especially the college age kids.

  • riverofsun St.George, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    Israel, ALSO, controls the electricity in Palestine.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    To "Howard Beal" take a look at the Hamas charter. It is filled with statements about not only destroying Israel, but about genocide of the Jews. Do you think it is good for college students to be so blind that they are supporting a genocidal group?

    Go and read their charter. The problem isn't with the Palestine people, but with Hamas.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:15 p.m.

    every knee shall bow, and tongue confess... Don't believe this? It is a tenant of the Mormon faith. Can this be explained by logic. Please explain this away.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:57 a.m.

    "IF Hamas would put their weapons out in the open... I'm sure Israel would destroy them without all the collateral damage we are seeing today."

    Not much open space in a city with that many people in that small a space but let's say there is... what kind of military in any conflict ever would deliberately make it easier for the enemy to destroy them? I'm all for blaming Hamas for the conflict (I blame both sides), but it's a bit silly to blame Hamas for not taking actions to help Israel destroy them.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:52 a.m.

    @2 bits
    "But the majority did elect Hamas leaders to lead their Government. "

    Israel keeps Gaza under a brutal blockade and has a heavy-handed hold on limiting what they can do. Half the purpose of all those tunnels is to bring in resources in for citizens. Hamas, like it or not, became the main provider of services and resources to the people, in addition to all the stuff you know about (weapons, etc). So the people turned to the extremist group, because they're desperate, and that's all they have. I suspect most of the Gazans would support a viable alternative if they thought one existed.

    "They place them around their King and other valuable targets"

    Gaza's a place with half the size of the Salt Lake valley but a bit more people than the entire Salt Lake valley, there really aren't many places you can put things. It's one thing to say Gaza is attacking from near buildings, and another to say they deliberately keep people in those locations. The former happens but I'm not aware of the existence of the latter. No media have observed it.

  • SigmaBlue Centerville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    Dear Wonder, I never said that Israel is 100% good and Palestinians were 100% bad. You're putting words in my mouth that are totally inaccurate. Israel is an honorable nation and have gone out of their way to inform the Palestinians of an impending attack in response to the thousands of rockets raining down on Israel. Hamas would never notify Israel's citizens of an imminent rocket attack and thus the difference between the two. Isrel wants to live in peace with their neighbors and Hamas wants to completely destroy their neighbor. Please avoid jumping to conclusions before knowing the facts, because it makes you look uninformed.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    I agree with IDSpud. This is not a Liberal vs Conservative issue. So lets try to not let it slide into the normal rut our conversations tend to turn into.

    It's not Liberals=Hamas/Palestine and Conservatives=Israel. It's not that simple (I hope).


    If anybody actually thinks Israel is TARGETTING and intentionally looking for Palestinian civilians, schools, hospitals, etc, when they do their targetted bombings... could you let us know who you are? These are the people I'd really like to talk to and figure out.

    Why would Israel be targeting civilians??

    That does NOTHING to advance their expressed goals (to destroy the tunnels and the weapons Hamas is using against THEIR civilian population).

    IF Hamas would put their weapons out in the open... I'm sure Israel would destroy them without all the collateral damage we are seeing today.

    Israel is not after the civilians. They are after the terrorists and their hiding places and their weapons. They just hide them in schools and hospitals!

    Hamas on the other hand... IS targeting civilians... and would like it if EVERY Jew were dead (not just their military).

    That's the main difference.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:37 a.m.

    Being sympathetic to the Palestinian citizens or vocally against some Israeli policies (blockade, settlements) does not require support for Hamas nor does it mean opposition to the existence of the state of Israel nor does it mean being unsympathetic to Israeli citizens.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    @jsf -- Yes, it is illegal for Israelis to attend church at BYU Jeruselem unless the law changed within the past couple of years. I base this on my Israeli friends' experience when they attempted to attend church and were told that they weren't allowed to attend as it violated Israeli law. I don't know where you are getting your information, but I'm getting it from the horse's mouth so to speak.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    Uh oh I agree with Gary O's previous comment. Someone get me some Tylenol.

    The establishment of Israel in the middle east is a total disaster. They are the little brother who antagonizes someone and then hides behind big brother (America) when they are about to get punched. Every country in the middle east hates their guts for that.

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:33 a.m.

    @Stalward Sentinel:

    If Israel were involved in genocide, why did it concede Gaza and the West Bank? Why does it alert the Palestinians ahead of time where their missiles will land?

    If Hamas gained power through open and transparent elections, why haven't the people put Hamas out of office now that Hamas is using the Palestinian population as human shields?

    Frankly, Hamas sure acts the part of a terrorist organization, and Israel acts the part of a beleaguered democracy.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    that it is illegal for Israelis to attend church at the BYU's No it is not. It is illegal for Christians to proselyte, same as Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, China, and many other countries.

  • IDSpud Eagle, ID
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:12 a.m.

    @Stalwart Sentinel. Interesting that your position is couched as conservatism vs. liberalism, as if this whole Middle East mess is defined along political lines. You appear to be a fairly reasonable and articulate person. You make some good points in an effort to be "balanced", but I believe still miss the underlying cause-d'être. All these various platitudes aside, if the Palestinians (in particular groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) would simply acknowledge Israel's right to exist, and focus on improving the lives of their own people, do you honestly think that Israel would be "purveying major unrest and bringing systematic death to innocent people"? The so called leaders of Islam are the true purveyors of major unrest and systematic death to innocent Muslims and Jews alike.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:05 a.m.

    Israel's insistence on putting Jewish settlements in Palestinian areas has fostered this bad blood. Israel holds a part of the blame for the continued conflict. However, they have to react when they are being bombed. They can't let that continue. I just wish they had acted more reasonably earlier on to calm instead of inflame the passions against them. And SigmaBlue, it's really uninformed to say that Israel is 100% good and the Palestinians are 100% bad. Were you aware, for instance, that it is illegal for Israelis to attend church at the BYU's Jeruselem facility? They are a democracy and they are our friends and allies in the region, but our values and interests do not line up with theirs 100% and we should not pretend that they do.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    Cedar Hills, UT
    As complicated as the situation sounds, it breaks down to a very simple issue: There are some Palestinians and Muslims who believe that no one, except Muslims, have a right to exist in the Middle East, and some go as far as to say the World.

    [Yep, just like Christians who insist "every knee shall bow, and tongue confess..."?]

    @Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    The solution is simple. "Transfer" those students who are protesting to a school in Israel. Let them experience first-hand the Hamas rockets raining down on their school. Let them have the full experience.

    [Pretty BIG words from someone who NEVER served or experienced Military action himself.]

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:58 a.m.

    very few are actually Hamas! Most of the people they have killed are children and women. Bombing schools, hospitals, and churches.

    Interesting given Hamas does not give out casualty numbers. Hamas has used schools, hospitals and churches for storing weapons and firing rockets. Also Hamas rockets have fallen short and have hit their own.

    Hamas also included in its death toll, allegedly at the hands of the IDF, the large number of civilians were killed by Hamas’ rockets and mortar shells that fell short of their targets. Others were executed by Hamas for allegedly providing Israel with intelligence information.

  • SigmaBlue Centerville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    This madness of supporting terrorists and condemning the honorable nation of Israel is a product of the Marxist philosophy being taught and embraced at many U.S. colleges and universities. The socialist/marxist worldview will always support tyranny and denounce liberty. Isaiah 5:20 says: "Woe unto those that call evil good and good evil." I know this denunciation of the State of Israel represents a small portion of our society, but it emboldens the radicals amongst us to follow suit. This divide between good and evil will only increase in intensity and extent. As Joshua said: "Choose you this day whom ye will serve..." I can tell you it ends badly for the wicked and those who fight against Israel.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:45 a.m.

    Nobody said all Palestinians are Hamas. But the majority did elect Hamas leaders to lead their Government. So the majority do support Hamas.

    RE: "Out of the thousands of people Israel has killed on very few are actually Hamas"...

    That's because Hamas hides their weapons, command centers, and military targets among the civilian population. So there's no way you can attack them without killing civilians.

    That's a strategic decision Hamas has made, and a sacrifice they are willing to make.

    Israel has decided they won't hold back anymore. They will attack the tunnels and Hamas weapons and other targets, even if they are located in the middle of the civilian population. Israel really has no other choice (other than lay down and die, or wait for a Hamas rocket or nuke to eventually find them).

    IMO The Palestinian people are being used as PAWNS by Hamas. They place them around their King and other valuable targets to absorb the blows and die to protect their military targets and make them hard to hit without a lot of collateral damage (and outrage from people who can't see what they are doing).

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    Curious that young people want to side with an ideology that subjugates women, limits individual's civil rights, promotes instability in every country it is the majority, and leaves people in poverty and disaccord. Not to mention that all of this is done in the name of Allah.

    How much are we paying these professors? Maybe it's time for a sabbatical to Gaza City for all of them. And we'll pay for it!

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    procuradorfiscal - You apparently consider yourself a "literate" person and a "real" American, so specify exactly where I displayed an affinity for Hamas or their actions.

    The reality is I view Hamas as a major barrier to longstanding peace; however, I also acknowledge Israel's role in purveying major unrest and bringing systematic death to innocent people. Hamas exists as a result of Israel (read about Hamas' origins). Conservatives seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy. We warned you about it in Iraq and now there is ISIS, we warned you about it in Palestine and now there is Hamas. These entities exist and are given power as a result of the occupying force's acts of injustice and human rights abuses. We've created the things we most feared.

    I absolutely mock your "tried-and-true principles" because they apparently include a disdain for the truth and lives of thousands of innocent Palestinians. Respect for all and truth are the principles I esteem most but you seem more concerned with trying out new adjectives to demonize people who disagree with you and implying they are not "real" Americans than finding solutions.

  • SJB Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:25 a.m.

    Out of the thousands of people Israel has killed on very few are actually Hamas! Most of the people they have killed are children and women. Bombing schools, hospitals, and churches. I am Palestinian and I am not Hamas, the biggest mistake of everyone here is that they think that because you live in Palestine you are Hamas. Get educated!

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:21 a.m.

    Hmmmmm . . . That wouldn't hold true in a court of law. If two guys get in a fight. And the assailant who lands the first few blows ends up on life support with multiple broken bones, and the guy he attacked walks away . . . Who is the aggressor?

    Your analogy does not hold water. In this case it is not a matter of two guys getting in a fight, In this case one party shoots with intent to kill, the second party returns fire in self defense and the first party dies. Holds up in court all the time.

    Liberal progressive position, victim should lay down and die with his broken bones or he is the aggressor. Defensive action is against the rules.

  • Oh Really? HERRIMAN, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    College is a place designed to make one think. Unfortunately, they often don't teach one to think for oneself.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    Re: "Universities are supposed to be where students learn diverse points of view."

    Yeah, but they haven't been such places for many, many years. They've become, rather, a place for recruitment of leftist radicals, where they're taught to mock the tried-and-true principles that guide most real Americans, and violently exclude us from the discussion.

    That's the primary motivation for leftists to gravitate towards educational institutions. Well, that and the posh lifestyle and tenured unaccountability.

    Suggesting that, since only a small minority of professors signed the pact against Israel, we shouldn't be overly concerned about leftists in Higher Ed unduly minimizes the problem -- if a mere thousand college professors signed a KKK pledge, leftists would certainly be manning the barricades and demanding revolution.

    The problem is, though, much bigger than a few lost-in-the-sixties hippie radicals attempting to rekindle glory days, anachronistically preaching that support for anything Arab equates to support for a leftist, Pan-Arab, Nasserite socialist paradise.

    It's that education has been cynically co-opted by the left. And, is being used as its primary tool to destroy real diversity and quash actual dissent.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:37 a.m.

    Israel is engaged in the controlled genocide of a people. I do not like Hamas nor condone their actions, they are reprehensible; however they were elected to power in a fairly open and transparent election cycle. So, one must ask themselves, why would Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas at the ballot box? Either you believe right-wing propaganda and see the entire civilization as one that wakes up every morning and plots to destroy Israel or you look at the facts on the ground and realize that these people have been denied basic human dignity by Israel for decades. And during those generations of occupation and denial of basic human rights, the vast majority of them sit by idly and peacefully hope for a resolution - but it never comes. Israel controls their borders, controls their imports, refuses to allow them to export, and has actually calculated the caloric intake necessary just to sustain life in the region.

    Israel is currently the greatest purveyor of long-standing genocide in the world and they are able to do so thanks to US financial backing. By America's own self-imposed laws on human rights, we must cease aid to Israel immediately.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:35 a.m.

    It is a complicated situation, and perhaps student demonstrations are one-sided.

    But this opinion piece is one-sided in the other directions.

    "At the same time, it has to be noted that aggressors in this latest conflict are the Palestinians . . . "


    But Palestinian deaths (moslty civilians) are measured in the hundreds, and Israeli deaths (mostly military) are measured in tens.

    And the Palestinians are the aggressors?

    Hmmmmm . . . That wouldn't hold true in a court of law.

    If two guys get in a fight. And the assailant who lands the first few blows ends up on life support with multiple broken bones, and the guy he attacked walks away . . . Who is the aggressor?

    It's the guy who went too far.

    And Israel went to far.

    When a nation kills civilians in the hundreds, then that nation has gone too far.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    "Or, we can see things from Palestine's perspective and work for solutions." - The Real Maverick

    How do you work for solutions when the Hamas advocates nothing short of the destruction / elimination of the State of Israel and every Jew dead?

    Until Hamas gives up that "solution," there will be no peace.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    I think it's because siding with Hamas is the "in thing" to do... it's cool. And college professors like to look cool to their young students... they like to be a little controversial, so they side with Hamas and talk like everything's Israel's fault.

    It gets a good discussion going, and gets people riled up. They like getting people riled up. What good is a class with no discussion or emotion.


    I think there is also a slight anti-religion theme with many college professors (their own bias of course, and it feeds into what many college age kids are feeling and exploring at that stage in their life).

    They see this as a religious thing.... so they knee-jerk respond anti-Israel and pro-Hamas. Because it's the a-theist thing to do.

    I don't see it as a religious thing primarily. I see it as a human thing. I don't want to see a whole culture wiped off the map because of intolerance.

    I don't think Israel wants to wipe all Palestinians out. I think they could live with them IF they would quit attacking. Not Hamas.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:14 a.m.

    After giving Palistine money to help build up their nation, they use the money to pepper Israel with rockets unceasingly, and then jumping Israel's case for fighting back seems irresponsible and biased at best. The glaring obviousnessness of this, combined with its amazing regularity, really suggests an alternative force behind it all.

    It is a sad fact of life that sometimes fighting is the only way to stop or prevent worse fighting. If Israel were to raze all of Palastine to the ground at this point, in the long term it could very well result less total death and anguish. It sucks no matter what you do, but -not- fighting back certainly hasn't worked for the several decades that Israel has existed as a modern state.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    The solution is simple. "Transfer" those students who are protesting to a school in Israel. Let them experience first-hand the Hamas rockets raining down on their school. Let them have the full experience. Let them learn first-hand what terrorism really is. Let them run for their lives. Let them experience what is felt by innocent people who are being targeted by terrorists.

    Yes, innocent people have died and will die in Gaza; people who are being used by the terrorists as media "fodder"; people who are being forced to surround missile sites in Gaza. Why are those people dying? The Israeli army warns them before targeting buildings. They are given time to get out. I don't remember any other army in history that has given people, military or civilian, time to exit targeted buildings.

    Those who protest are being used. They know so little that they have aligned themselves with terrorists.

  • ThornBirds St.George, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:06 a.m.

    The BIG question.
    If Israel decided it was not in their best interest to continue living war day after day, forever.
    If it's residents abandoned Israel and assimilated in a European country/ America, or somewhere else.
    Would the Middle East become a peaceful place?

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    Perhaps even just a decade ago, Israel had a firm grasp on the narrative. There are many more avenues for a person to gain a perspective on the conflict. With social media, there are too many holes in the dike to plug.

    If a university campus is taking a one-sided view, perhaps that is a reaction to having heard only one side for so long. As another view is forcing its way past the traditional media filter, reasonable people are raising reasonable questions.

  • Kora Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:42 a.m.

    As complicated as the situation sounds, it breaks down to a very simple issue: There are some Palestinians and Muslims who believe that no one, except Muslims, have a right to exist in the Middle East, and some go as far as to say the World.

    As long as that is the case, there will never be peace. Unfortunately, these radicals teach their children these lessons at a very young age. I look at what ISIS is doing to Christians, and it is not just about Jews to some groups, it is all "infidels".

    Some of the people who believe in the World Wide Islamic Caliphate live in our Country, and there are many in other Western Nations as well, and not just a few. Some Americans are fighting alongside as part of ISIS.

    It is a sad cycle that will not end anytime soon. Regardless of what Israel does, short of abandoning the Middle East, nothing will satisfy Hamas, Hezbollah, and many other groups. If you destroy one group, another will pop up. As long as militant Islam controls the conversation, and the power, it will be ongoing until Christ returns.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    Let's see...

    you are 21 years old and in college.

    You have seen Americans getting killed in wars for most of you life.
    Your future looks bleak, the economy has nothing to offer, because of wars and the HUGE defeceit you've been left with, because of Grover Norquist and the GOPs pledge of NO taxes,
    YOU are the one's you'd be sent to fight wars -- not grumpy old men watching FoxNews,

    Nah -- War is not something you want to be part of...

  • Incite Full Layton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:12 a.m.

    One major reason college campuses cater to pro-radical-islamic dogmas is that many of their exchange students are from those regions of the world that are sympathetic with the terrorists and have NO tolerance of the existence of Israel. They legitimately believe the worst lies about Jews.

    Then the faculty is constantly on the intellectual pursuit of some middle ground, when in reality the only middleground that could possibly exist is the destruction of those stereotypes and dogmas that dictate that Jews are inherently evil, need to be removed from the Middle east and don't have a right to exist.

    When the Twin Towers came down there was cheering and celebrating in the streets of many of these regions, and you can't claim they were all Al-Qaeda. It is the incestuous inbred hatred of the West, the weight and fear of individual human choice and rights.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 7:50 a.m.

    When I was in college we protested against Apartheid in South Africa, and got similar pushback from conservatives who felt "constructive engagement" was the more appropriate response, considering the amount of investment US companies held in South Africa. Ultimately, economic sanctions, inspired by college students, led to the end of Apartheid.

    Things are not as straightforward in Israel, but a Jewish colleague who is very much pro-Israel confided in me that "the oppressed have become the oppressors", meaning the horrific treatment of Jews in WWII has somehow resulted in self-justification of very high-handed treatment of Palestinians, by Jews.

    The over-the-top response by Israel, ie "100 eyes for an eye", pushes Palestinians to support Hamas. If it appeared Israel was likely to seek genuine peace, and not keep expanding into non-Israeli land, more moderate minded Palestinians would feel emboldened to press for moderation, and Hamas would lose power.

    What we have today is endless, dysfunctional homicide, likely to continue indefinitely, or at least until Israel kills all the Palestinians.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 7:40 a.m.

    Of all the concerns with the issues in the Middle East, and you are fretting about a relatively small number of students on some college campuses?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 7:32 a.m.

    @ Murrayguy

    Because people are poor and desperate. Estimates indicate that hundreds of thousands are homeless right now (400,000) due to Israel's bombing. How do you think their suffering will effect them? If just 10 percent become angry enough to join Hamas then Israel has just given Hamas 40,000 new recruits.

    We can continue to repeat past mistakes and allow Israel to blow Palestine out of the water. Or, we can see things from Palestine's perspective and work for solutions.

    Contrary to Fox News belief, Israel isn't an altruistic infallible institution. They make mistakes too.

    Israel's overkill and reluctance to compromise and work with Palestinians is creating more killers. The ever recruiting tool for Hamas is Israel's overbearing responses to Hamas's attacks. Israel's responses are like pulling out a bazooka to swat a fly.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Aug. 12, 2014 6:46 a.m.

    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are 1,267,700 people in the US employed as University teachers or professors. I have no doubt that 1,000 of these people signed this document... but statistically that number represents such a low percentage that is almost a rounding error.

    Consider this. 675,000 people signed the "2012 state petitions for secession" from the union between Nov 7th and 14th 2012 that was posted on the White House site. One may derive from these numbers that over half a million people believe election results justify the break up of this nation.

    Look at it this way for context. 7/10 of 1 percent of professors signed this petition condemning Israel for their actions. On the other hand, 2.2 percent of Americans thought the Union should be dissolved because of the results of the last election.

    I am sorry.... but I am not too worried about the fact that less than a percent of professors are upset with Israel. What is much more worrisome to me is 2.2 percent of Americans want to shred the constitution of this nation - because of election results.

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    Aug. 12, 2014 6:30 a.m.

    I feel terrible for the families of the Palestinians who have died. But... they don't police their own. Almost every ceasefire seems to have come from the Palestinian side. The start of this came from the Palestinian side.

    Point #1 Palestinians apparently killed three Israeli (one american) young men.
    Point #2 Israeli youth attacked and killed a Palestinian in return illegally.
    Point #3 Israel has arrested some in the case.
    Point #4 Why hasn't Palestine done likewise? They just don't.... You never hear of it.
    Then there are the tunnels which I heard in an interview with NPR a spokesman from Hamas admit were used to transport weapons.
    Point #5, they openly state they want the destruction of Israel....

    I'm not saying Israel is not guilty of things too. I'm saying to not talk about Palestinian aggression in the face of this disaster and to frame it as all one sided Israeli aggression is wrong.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    Aug. 12, 2014 6:20 a.m.

    It is shocking that many, college students/faculty included, don't bother to delve into the entire history of the conflicts in this region. Perhaps, if they did, there might be more sympathy for the Israelis. This is not to say that the current Israeli government is blameless. I don't think the current Israeli conservative/religious ruling parties truly reflect the consensus in the country. However, unless you deny the right of Israelis to live in a free country, one must generally give their support to Israel. We don't understand what it is like to be surrounded by bitterly hostile neighbors.

    What bothers me the most in this debate is the resultant anti-Semitism that arises in Western minds. The Muslims hate Jews, that is a given. However, there is a nasty undercurrent of religious intolerance which is beginning to seep into the media. Jews in this country are no more responsible for the actions of the Israeli government than Catholics are responsible for the actions of the Italian government. Most American Jews support Israel ardently, but do not approve of the current Israeli government and many of its actions.

  • MurrayGuy Murray, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:54 a.m.

    While the civilian casualties are sad to see, the fact is Hamas is a terrorist group and I am left scratching my head why people at home support them?

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:30 a.m.

    I guess they are opposite of Fox News and probably the truth is in the middle...

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:20 a.m.

    Nothing quite comes up to the Middle East in demonstrating the destructive side of religion. The establishment of the state of Israel was due in large part to fulfill religious prophecy (the Jewish population of Europe should have been compensated by giving them half of Germany instead). So we get a one-religion Jewish state plunked down in the middle of generally degenerate Islam - an explosion which keeps on giving. It could well be the spark of the next world war.

    Religion does some good things for people, but this is an example of how bad it can be.

    And yes, campuses are short-sighted in attacking just Israel, but this is only a tiny part of a generally very sick scene.