Don't forget the wealthy, who get the most welfare of them all!
Mike Richards said "There is no accountability. There is no expectation for
self-sufficiency. There's only the clamour that some "rich
REPUBLICAN" pay for it."Not sure about the second part, but
the first part is actually the point of the letter. Mike, The point
of the letter is that the Welfare system currently being used does not promote
self sufficiency. Instead it stifles it...That is where the
graduated assistance comes in that the letter writer talks about. If a person
works hard to improve their education or whatever and then starts working to get
off welfare, the system will work with them until they are totally self
sufficient.The problem is now is it all or nothing, so people simply
choose to stay.
"We are at the point where we need to reform again. But it will have to wait
until Barack Obama is out of office. Because he believes Saul Alinsky and his
theories. Google it. It's where we are headed today... and where the
Progressive movement WANTS us to goOh baloney. Barack Obama did
more for small business and entrepreneurship during the great recession than any
Republican has. It was the perfect time to kill them but he propped them up.
Google it, as if it's on the internet so it must be true.
Google is a search engine not an authority. What's the actual source of
your information. My bet is if "you Google it" all you'll find is
a bunch of radical righties pontificating.
@ Mike Richards" Do you have any idea how many hundreds of
thousands of dollars that would be worth if put in a 401K or IRA account"Before or after a deregulated Wall Street would have lost it?
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahOpen Minded Mormon,You
bet I'm going to collect Social Security. ======== Let see here -- 1. Now you LIKE Socialism?, Now why are fine being a
"taker"? Why the about face?2. You worked hard, and now feel
"entitled" to it. Hint: That why you and yours called Social Programs
"entitlements".3. Good for me -- BAD for everyone else.4.
"The Church" has never had a problem with Government Social Programs.
But MANY - including yourself - do. I have always been in harmony wit the
Church, and I'm fine paying into the system, and I'll be fine taking
out when the time comes.5. Pres. Hinckley and Pres. Uchtdorf talked a lot
about having an "Attitude of Gratitude", you might want to start
One old Man: With all respect, I think you are the one who missed the point, not
JCS. Neither the Sermon on the Mount nor any other of Christ's teachings
say that it is acceptable for anyone read Government) to take money from some
people (tax payers) and give it to other people. Charity isn't charity
unless it is given freely, without the threat of force. Christ's way was
one of persuasion, not coercion.
Mike Richards, arguing that socialism is a good idea. But your friends will say
you are living off the younger people that are working.
I saw a thing on FB that said," Our church does more with 10% than the
government does with 50%. If only that were true. If churches of all
denominations were at least solving basic living and health necessities for the
poor (as Christ commands us to) the government would have nothing to do, and all
the people that hate government welfare could be administering it "their
way." Churches certainly take in enough money don't they?The family values crowd would rather see a single mother working 2 jobs than
at home with her kids. What? You say it's her fault for having kids? But I
keep seeing the cries of conservatives that people are selfish because the
don't want to have kids... Choose and stick with it.
Open Minded Mormon,You bet I'm going to collect Social
Security. I'm an American who paid into that program all my life since I
was fourteen. I've been self-employed since I was in high school, meaning
that I paid ALL the Social Security TAX myself, all 15% every year all my life.
Do you have any idea how many hundreds of thousands of dollars that would be
worth if put in a 401K or IRA account?I've also paid my own
life-insurance at $900 a month, raised eight kids, cared for parents on both
sides of the family, and assisted many in my extended family, just like the LDS
Church encourages us to do. Unlike those who have their hands out demanding
that rich Republicans pay their way in life, my Church and my parents taught me
to be self-sufficient. They also taught me that when you pay Social Security you
COLLECT it at retirement age. What does the Church you go to tell YOU about
collecting Social Security? Did they tell you to give it back to the
Parting comment... Welfare Reform is a "GOOD" thing. Good for the
country, and good for the people.It's not GOOD for the people
to live on welfare long-term or generation after generation. There SHOULD be
motivation to get off it.It's not Good for the COUNTRY to dole
out welfare checks to people who COULD work. It's good for the
country to have a safety net for temporary needs while you get back on your
feet, and it's good to help those who are handicapped and not able to work
their whole life. But that's not "Welfare". So OMM and others can
quit the guilt trip they throw out there every time this topic comes up, for
anybody accepting their SS Benefits when they are disabled or retire.SS is different.I don't expect SS will be around when I
retire, but if it is... I assure you I won't be turning it down.
I've paid a LOT of paychecks into that account.
JCS, trying to tell us that all who need assistance are lazy and slothful is
simply wrong and you certainly know it.
The Real Maverick"They buy a foreign company they claim that their
foreign company actually owns them. That way, they get out of paying any
American taxes."Any company incorporated in the US is a US
company and must include all income, foreign and domestic, on their US corporate
income tax return. And that includes wholly or partially owned subsidiaries.
Of course if they pay a tax to a foreign government that is deductible in some
measure on the US tax return.And, why are American companies going
foreign... either moving there or buying foreign subsidiary companies? In order
to stay alive. Foreign competition is real. China, India, Japan, et. al., pay
such comparatively low wages that US domesticated companies can't compete.
In our current global marketplace many go under resulting in lost US government
@Mike R;Giving to your church (tithing) isn't charity. Never
was, never will be. Charity is what you give to the poor and needy; churches
largely use your "donations" to operate; not to feed those in need.
@Mike RichardsPlease give us figures on the Trillions of dollars of
government handouts to large corporations who do not create jobs and move jobs
overseas, move their business to Dubai, have offshore accounts and hire illegal
aliens. If you would please.
If the CATO institute says it then it must be true...
Exactly right Mike...as usual! I love it when the crowd who screams separation
of church and state, and piously preaches to us about how conservatives can just
keep their morals to themselves, but when it comes to themselves, they like to
start quoting and interpreting scripture in order to impose their morals on the
rest of us. Fascinating! It really comes down to lifestyle
choices. Families can help each other, if they really want to. Don't give
us the lame excuse question about whether any of us are helping needy family
members right now. That proves Nothing. Who is going to be satisfied with
someone paying their rent and giving them a nutritious meal, when welfare offers
so much more in the way of candy soda and cash to buy cable tv and cell
phones? Since so many cities are now moving towards the
"livable" minimum wage, I think we might as well scrap the welfare
system anyway. Social Security and Medicare are totally different arguments.
Mike and all the rest of us have had portions of our paychecks confiscated every
month just for the purpose of our future retirement. Why would we not take that
According to the CATO Institute, the Federal Government has over 126 different
welfare/anti-poverty programs. Federal welfare spending increased from $200
billion in 1976 to over $600 billion in 2009. Total welfare spending went from
$250 billion in 1976 to over $950 billion in 2009. Annual spending per person in
poverty went from $7,000 in 1976 to $20,000 in 2011 (adjusted to reflect 2011
dollars). Welfare spending went from 2% of GDP in 1965 to 6% in 2001. In 2010,
with the poverty threshold for a family of three at $18,530, government spent
$59,233 per family of three.We still have people in poverty.The system is not working.There is no accountability. There
is no expectation for self-sufficiency. There's only the clamour that some
"rich REPUBLICAN" pay for it.FDR, LBJ and Obama are wrong.
Welfare is fueling the need for even more welfare.
@Mike Richards -- Just curious, How many "others" are
you personally helping out?And don't give me the old 'I
WOULD do it, if the Government wasn't already taking from me and giving it
to them" malarkey.BTW -- Pretty tough words coming from someone
who less than 2-3 years from being on "Welfare" himself.Are
you coming to be collecting Social Security, Medicare, etc.?orare
your neighbors, friends and Family going to be there for you?
Wow.. Mike Richards.... REALLY? you think that everyone just needs to count
pennies and they could help their other families members?One of the
most pathetic comments I have ever heard is this one MIKE: "that they
couldn't buy that new car or take that nice vacation. Seriously
mike as member of the LDS Church I am highly offended...For you
information Mike, My father never owned a new car, never went on a
"Nice" vacation. Most of our vacations were camping because it was the
least expensive thing to do back then. My also became the bread winner for his
family at 17 years old, because his father passed away suddenly, he had to quit
school in order to feed his mother and 5 siblings. So never finished school.He married a women who had four children already, he worked 60hrs a week
to support them. He made sure we were taken care of, but we never had extra.
EVER!I am highly offended that You Mike have dishonored the memory
of a man who taught me more about being Christ like and helping others even
though he was not a member of the LDS church.
HutteriteDon't worry, the way things seem to be going is toward
a single payer system. As it is, when anyone get medicade, medicare, Obamacare,
ect. it is all government money, and therefore, in practice, a single payer
system. Single payer systems are fine for those who don't have any other
means. Just don't ruin the private payer health system by requiring
everyone to be forced onto a single payer (read government) health system. That
is what we opponents of ACA are worried about. As for a welfare
system. Well, I'm going to have to shamelessly wave the LDS flag on this.
They generally require something back from anyone receiving assistance, unless
the persons are not physically capable of giving such. Remember, Workfare?
That is largely how the LDS Church operates its system. And some states have
put it into practice too. That way people will not let the "natural
man" take over and enslave them. The natural man, by the way, is the basic
human nature of being lazy. If you enable that human charactistic, you end up
with the welfare queen, or king. God knows better, and thus the LDS program
There has never been a better demonstration of "privilege" than has been
posted here this morning. Point, Welfare from the 80's is non-existent.
Welfare lifestyle is a myth. Reagan's stereotype of welfare mom's was
a myth and a lie. Point, the state administers aid to the poor. Who is the
state? Government is those friends, neighbors and family members that Mr
Richards feels so adamantly about. We have SNAP, welfare, Medicaid because those
non official friends, neighbors and family members don't help. It is that
simple. Taxes to support the disadvantaged is nothing more than you and Mr
Richards paying your share to assist these neighbors needing help and despite
your attitudes, Utah has more than it's share. It's that simple. If
you think that your churches, whichever they may be are covering the needs you
are sadly underestimating the problem. "Privilege is when you think
something is not a problem because it's not a problem to you
One of the most pathetic things that I've ever heard was "the family
was not in a position to help". NO ONE would ever be in a position to help
if they first counted their pennies, totalled up their dreams and then saw that
if they kept a brother or sister or aunt or uncle from starving, that they
couldn't buy that new car or take that nice vacation. Needs
come before wants. Wants come before desires. There is enough and to spare to
take care of the needs of everyone but there will never be enough to take care
of greed.I've spent a few hours reading some of the
demographics between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans give 30% more to
charity than Democrats but Democrats earn more money than Republicans.
Democrats demand that government pay for personal welfare. Republicans believe
in working for their own welfare.If we don't have money enough
to help family, friends and neighbors, just where will we find the $150,000 it
costs for wages, benefits and office space to hire a social worker to administer
It's called enslavement. The Governments whole goal is to get everybody
dependant on them. They do not want you to get off welfare and they make it
almost impossible to do so.
Seriously people... you need to stop the ANTI Corporation comments.Corporations as well as Small Businesses gets all types of help from the
Government. But they also provides a lot of Tax base for Government, they
provide employment for people who in turn pays taxes.The letter
writer has a good thought, my sister was in a situation where she needed help
because of her husband actions (which she had no control). Sorry Mike Richards,
but the family was not in a position to help, so she went on welfare to help
raise her son. She worked hard to go to school and get the education she needed
to improve her life, like the letter writer, my sister was penalized for
improving her situation.I also have thought that if they had a
graduated rate of help as the person improved their income, would help them get
back on their feet more firmly.Mike Richards.... IF you truly
believe that then you do not understand the teaching of your church leaders.
I know it won't happen, and certainly I've said it before, but a
single payer health system would be one major component of making this happen.
I know CORPORATIONS [who are now supposed to be "people" too, right?]
who have been on welfare for a few DECADES. It amazes me how people
like this go after a woman with kids trying to feed her family with food stamps,
Completely ignores the Corporate Welfare Queens receiving $100's of
BILLIONS of dollars in Free hand outs, while still making $100's of
Billions in profits, and not paying taxes.But go ahead, write
and complain about your neighbor, and keep voting for those you support
those who TRULY are taking advantage of and milking the system a Trillion times
Old man conveniently ignores the fact that nothing in the New Testament
advocates laziness, sloth, and living off the hard work of others. Rather, man
is instructed that he has a duty to work to provide for himself and his family.
That is irrefutable fact!
Welfare Reform has worked in the past.It worked under Bill Clinton!
Remember Newt Gengrich and the "Contract with America"??? Google it.It worked! But reform doesn't last forever. "Reform" is
usually temporary. And the forces that got you there the first time... are
eventually going to get you there again... and you need to "Reform"
again. It's just the way social systems are.We are at the
point where we need to reform again. But it will have to wait until Barack
Obama is out of office. Because he believes Saul Alinsky and his theories.
Google it. It's where we are headed today... and where the Progressive
movement WANTS us to go.I will go kicking and fighting the whole way
down... Who knows... maybe we will come to our senses before it's too
late. We worked in 1994... it could work again!Remember... the Saul
Alinsky plan is not to IMPROVE our CURRENT Government. It's designed to
overwhelm and COLLAPSE our Government... so the people will BEG for them to
replace it with something better (Which the Progressives would claim is
"Whose family is on welfare? Whose neighbor is on welfare? Whose friends are
are welfare?"Good questions.Many of us might be very
surprised to discover that a lot of our neighbors and the people we see at
church every Sunday are, in fact, receiving some sort of government
assistance.Whose family is on welfare?Some of yours could
be.Whose neighbor is on welfare?Some of your may be.Whose friends are on welfare?Some of yours might be.And if
they are not on welfare right now, there's a chance they have been in the
past. Or will be in the future.
Mike Richards said: 'Whose family is on welfare? Whose neighbor is on
welfare? Whose friends are are welfare?Our family helps each other. Our
neighbors help each other. Our friends help each other. Government has no
responsibility to care for our personal needs; that is a duty of the people, not
of the State."Well then your not doing your job, so the state
has to step in and help.Oh yeah you always forget that "We are
the government, local and nationally, and you can't possible know the needs
of everyone in your community, nor would you help, without certain conditions
you or your religion would require.It's no longer the 18th century,
we are not a frontier nation, you are not a closed community in the wilderness.
Whose family is on welfare? Whose neighbor is on welfare? Whose friends are
are welfare?Our family helps each other. Our neighbors help each
other. Our friends help each other. Government has no responsibility to care
for our personal needs; that is a duty of the people, not of the State.
JCS, you completely missed the point of this letter.You are also
completely missing the point of the teachings given in The Sermon on the Mount
and a bunch of other places by the man for whom our church is named.
Good letter. A graduated program would make all kinds of sense.
As long as this applies to corporations as well!Right?Remember how Fox News blasted that surfer who was on food stamps?Yet, they celebrate all the tax subsidies, grants, and "welfare"
corporations are getting. We empower them and how do they repay us?They buy a foreign company they claim that their foreign company actually owns
them. That way, they get out of paying any American taxes. This is called
inversion and Fox News recently reported it and not one person on that entire
channel criticized this practice.In other words, a few hundred
dollars per year for a surfer on food stamps? Outrageous! We need to reform the
system immediately to fix this problem!Billions lost on corporate
welfare? Meh! Not a big deal.If you haven't seen Colbert or
Stewart report this, then you should.
Thomas F Meagher once famously said "The purpose of welfare is to sustain
life, not a lifestyle. " That is exactly the problem: welfare has become a
means of propping up lifestyles, rather than for the emergency, temporary
measure it was intended to be.No one can be truly happy when they
are living on the government dole. Happiness comes from self-reliance and
self-sufficiency. If the current left-wing administration really cared about the
happiness of the citizens, it would teach them that principle.From
the Beginning, it was declared that man must earn his bread by the sweat of his
own brow. We must return to following that declaration.