Nice to see one State with some common sense going around, at the state level
at any rate. -dlj.
My personal experience with Common Core:1. I didn't hear
anything about Common Core until it was on it's way to implementation. I
have spent three years researching the curriculum, standards, and
implementation.....I cannot find anything suggesting Common Core will be good
for my children.2. I asked my district superintendent and two school
board members about Common Core. Pointing to a book on his shelf, supt.
said,'Common Core is now the law in Utah. There is nothing we can do about
it'. Why, then, are we paying supt. salaries and electing school board
members?3. I cannot see my son's 8th grade Common Core pre-test
because it is sealed. I was told I would need to petition the USOE for
permission to do so.4. USOE's office of assessments cannot
(phone call conversation) tell me where the data being collected on my children
is going. 5. As per a conversation with a representative from USOE,
teachers will not feasibly be able to implement any flexibility regarding the
standard driven Common Core curriculum.Let's address the above.
Does anyone understand that when there are no notebooks to bring home, no books
to review, that the parents are entirely cut out of the process?When we
pay $35.00 for each test by each child, in every classroom, in every school, in
every school in the state and every school in the country, just imagine what the
cost of these tests are? They are required to take 8 tests a year times $35.00
and if they fail they take the test over and it costs the same. Of course
teachers have to teach to the test. If they are being judged by the number of
students who pass, what do you expect them to do?I don't know about
the rest of you, but tests were not my favorite thing to do. I didn't
freeze, but I knew a lot of children who did. My granddaughter was taken
out of 3rd grade because school had become a drudge. The math homework I helped
her with were a joke. It would take 5 seconds to get the answer and we had to go
through a page of work.Sorry, this is NOT A LOCAL PROGRAM! Money corrupts!
WE do not need standardized teaching that demonizes conservatives and
conservative opinion, while praising the most liberal of philosophies. Common
core will drive many families into home schooling which will be vigorously
opposed by the common core koolaid drinkers.
These are not "just" standards. These nationalized privately-created
and owned standards are but one part of a larger movement by national interests
to take control of what was once local and "public".Common
Core is not a progressive idea, nor is it a cwazy right wing idea--it is in line
with the neo-liberal partnership between central government and corporate
interests. My opposition as a public school teacher has nothing to do with a
vast right wing conspiracy and everything to do with preserving the ideals of
our public's most valuable institution against a well-organized,
well-coordinated attack by political groups, privatizers, and corporate
interests who wish to ultimately benefit from the privatization of public
education and profit from it in the meanwhile.Where is the
"public" in public schools now? Teachers, Parents, Community
Stakeholders, School Boards, Districts, States, etc. - have all been left out of
the crafting, implementation, and evaluation of the Common Core. Anyone who
believes in a strong public education system should feel very disenfranchised.
Effectively, there is NO MORE "Public" education. What's at stake
isn't standards, per se--it is the viability of a public education in our
Common Core is the prime current example of the kind of federal overreach that
co-opts or directly undermines the structures of our federalist system. Instead
of a balance of power and a division of jurisdiction and responsibilities
between the states and the federal government we find the Dept. of Education
imposing top-down a nationalized curriculum and national accountability by the
states to the federal government. Despite the clear legal prohibitions against a
national curriculum that is what Arne Duncan and the Obama administration has
been able to accomplish. With the leverage of the Race for the Top money they
were able to force states to agree to implement the Common Core, adopt
nationally-normed exams (with FERPA exemptions for certain testing corporations
to use student data), and then tie teacher evaluations to those tests. Indiana
recently withdrew their commitment to Common Core and received threats from
Education Secretary Arne Duncan--doesn't sound like states can control
their own standards. BTW, many people don't realize that states can't
change the standards because they don't own the copyright.
Some questions:* How did cooperative learning work out?* Did
the Head Start Program reduce poverty?* How has standardized testing, and
accountability improved American education?* Why does our country import
eighty two thousand highly skilled workers per year, if our education system is
effective?* Why do we allow an organization, who has put our country into
a debt equaling $600,000 for every second in a year, to be setting standards for
I opted out my two Jr High teens out of Sage Testing this Spring and was treated
like a lunatic. One son's teacher pulled him aside and said that he would
fail his class if he didnt take the test and said your parents must be devout
Glenn Beck fans. It wasn't funny. I called the Principal of the school and
left a very angry VM. The next day this teacher called and tried to apologize
for his comments. He admitted to lying to the students to get them to try their
best so the school could get more federal monies and not get terminated. My
response was WHY do you need to lie to the students and scare them into
participating in something (data mining) and has nothing to do education. The description of the required math classes in quite confusing. Under
CC there is no method to allow students to take honors or AP math courses. My
guess that the supporters of CC don't have intelligent children being
subjected to this garbage.Im branded as a right wing Glenn Beck anti
education Loon who loves his children.
If this comment is not parody, then we are really in trouble: "I don't
know much about anything but am upset and will err on the side of caution and
oppose the Feds because... Obama."I hope it was intended as
sarcasm.But if it's not . . . . .
The amount of outright false information being spouted here by CCC opponents is
incredible.If it is due to ignorance, that is frightening.If it is due to someone deliberately spreading false information, that is even
more frightening.But then, it does take ignorance to be able to
believe false information. That's frightening, too.Perhaps we
can have some hope after Common Core has been in use for a few years and the
critical thinking skills it contains have had a chance to settle in. People who
have been taught to think and evaluate information won't be so ignorant
that they will accept anything told them at face value.
I attended my party caucus. When common core came up one lady said she opposed
it because because the standards were to difficult. Really. Conservatives are
always complaining about public schools and lack of accountability. Isn't
this the issue common core addresses. Brent Bot. Women can vote and own
property thanks to progressives. In fact the civil rights movement was largely
progressive in nature.
@Bland,Social promotion is based on teachers not wanting to be fired
for a high failure rate. Students learn this quickly, and work less, because
they will pass any way.So common core are just standards? Hmm?What are those standards? Who makes these standards? Teachers,
administrators, and parents, can't created standards, just the
feds/lawmakers?An organization, who can't balance a checkbook,
put our country in debt to the tune of $600,000 for every second of a year, and
creates a huge poverty state, are now going to set the standards for education?
This is insanely crazy!How many times, do we stand behind a horse
and get kicked, before standing somewhere else?
Contrary to the Common Core bullet points we keep hearing, all this was not
conceived and developed through the National Governor’s Association.
Nor, as many proponents cheerfully assert, was it a joint creation by governors,
business leaders, educators and parents—you know, all the stakeholders.
The reality is that Common Core had its early origins around 2004 in a project
called ACHIEVE, led by a mix of corporations (pointedly without any professional
educators) with help from ALEC and broad support from the Gates Foundation, the
Waltons (Walmart heirs), and The Broad Foundations, among others that led to
something called the American Diploma Project. Subsequent “work
groups” added two testing companies including the textbook behemoth from
the UK, Pearson Corp. Follow the money, people.Despite what some
want to believe in their press releases and bullet points, CCSS development was
chiefly a corporate enterprise, bringing funding of public education into the
hands of organizations external to the traditional democratically-controlled and
publicly-accountable public school system.
who are these mysterious GOP insiders? Mike Levette? Jon Huntsman Jr? Orin
Hatch? We need to root these shadow RINO's out and force them to state
their support publically.
Once again I am amazed at the ignorance about the common core. There is no
textbook, no curriculum, no lesson plans. It is simply a set of standards. Go
read them. Really that is all it is. As the posters on here have demonstrated,
when asked what specifically they don't like about the core, they have no
answer. Hmm let's figure out why our government leaders
actually support it. Because it is basic common sense to support something that
is just a set of standards.But once again we have a tiny but VERY
vocal minority making a lot of noise. They even admit that they encouraged their
little group to go take the online poll. Unbelievable how this has
developed into a political argument about being a "patriot".
Hilarious.Stay strong legislators. The CC is a good thing.
We're behind it.
I would think that a teacher who is intelligent, well educated and able to teach
the necessary concepts should not need common core. Obviously someone is making
money off of common core. Think about it--new textbooks/workbooks, teachers
aids, testing is big business, rewriting everything. Now, if the teachers did
not have college teaching degrees, then I might understand why common core might
be needed. Actually, I prefer my children have teachers who graduated in a
subject, then completed certification. Those teachers have a stronger knowledge
in subject matter. Actually, I know people who do not have college degrees who
would be excellent teachers. I look at common core as a slap in the face not
only to excellent teachers, but also the colleges that supposedly taught them.
Why is the field of education always in an upheaval? It makes those in charge of
education appear to be incapable of succeeding with educating our children.
Will they ever get it right?
You know, we rant and rave about how out of touch elected officials (or their
cronies) are, yet year after year, election after election, we keep putting them
back in office.Enough is enough. Quit voting for incumbents!Oh, I forgot, Utahans don't go to the polls, that's why
elected and cronies keep ignoring us.
MomOf6 is correct in saying that CC comes from a group of educators (None of
whom have the initials BO most likely). I misspoke in my previous comments. She
has given some good comments here. My point is that Utah has a
direct hand in writing the standards. I think that some of these
concerns (like developmental and emotional concerns outside of academics) are
legitimate. But these are problems of the "System" of social promotion
failing students. Common Core actually battles social promotion to some regard.
If a teacher promotes a student who did not reach standard, he or she is going
against CC. We cannot say that CC is too hard and then in the same breath say
that CC needs to be made more robust.
worf from Texas wondered why schools can't put Common Core textbooks in the
library for parents to study. I have a better suggestion. Why not have parents
study the textbooks when their children bring them home? I do have to laugh
about the comment made by the young Klingon from Texas. You see, before Utah
adopted the Common Core, our Math textbooks were based on the Texas and
California math standards. Textbook companies catered to the needs of our two
largest states and the rest of the states were forced to use them. After the
Common Core was adopted, each state had unique core guidelines that made it
impossible to use the California and Texas textbooks. I looked at my kids'
textbook and it was refreshing to see a book that said "Utah Standards"
at the top. I really think these anti-common core people need to
have their heads examined. They literally want Utah to give up local control
and give it back to California and Texas in the name of "local control."
It just makes you shake your head in disbelief.
I love how one of the arguments against Common Core is that it is too hard. We
sure do miss those days where all you had to do to get good grades was bring
Miss Honey an apple. Either we educate children at a more rigorous
level or we need to admit that we, as Americans, are not tough enough or smart
enough to perform in academics on an international level. Mom of 6 brings up
concerns that are real I think, although ultimately unfounded. 3rd graders doing
multiplication and division? I went to school in the "apple to the
teach' " days; I also learned multiplication (and bit of division!) in
2nd grade. These CC kids are behind! By 6th grade, pre-algebra was expected. Now
given, (Not to toot my own horn) I was the valedictorian of my high school, so I
was not remedial, but we need to go faster and harder in schools. And it might
hurt. You better believe I cried in school because of tests. They
were so easy that I thought I had been demoted to the 3rd grade at age 15.
That'll make anyone bawl.
Personally, I feel that CC needs an extreme tweak. We need to better prepare
students for the future, but using this methodology does not work for average
students...at least at an elementary school level. Besides academics, we need
to take in account what most students can do developmentally and emotionally. I
want my students to be excited to learn. As a teacher, I do not get to pick my
students. They come to me from all walks of life with many different talents
and abilities. Some children are not prepared as they move from grade level to
grade level. I often get students who are still on a Kindergarten level
academically, but are not held back and are pushed forward. With classrooms of
30 students there is no way I can help these students begin to reach their
peers, yet I am held accountable for their lack of ability.
Amusing how several of the comments against Common Core also include horrid
punctuation and grammar. If the shoe fits......@Worf. Hate to say
it, but I read plenty of bad language in school books before 6th grade. And I
went to school in UT. And that was....a while back, shall we say? Also, I had a
9th grade teacher who thought a square could have exactly three right angles (If
we don't get why this is wrong, perhaps CC is truly needed). Talk about
fuzzy math. And she came up with that gem all on her own. Common Core was not
even a factor. As Bland says, for the bajillionth and second time,
Obama does not control Common Core. It is a Utah thing. The UTAH Office of
Education writes these standards. I do not want a "I am hearing...[insert
hearsay]" type of comment. Crisco B very clearly lays out some of the
autographical (meaning straight and original) documents used in upper grade
history. If there is any "inaccurate" history being taught, it is not
coming from USOE. Talk to your local (Texas? Wait, what? That ain't in
Utah) teacher if inaccurate history is being taught.
Here are some more problems. Students are to read mainly non-fiction passages.
They are to be able to take a higher level thinking approach, relate what they
have learned from the text, compare the text to outside experience, and compare
it to other texts. Why is this a problem? This is what a 3rd grader is supposed
to do with very limited reading and writing ability. CC does not take in account
what is appropriate developmentally. I had students taking the SAGE test last
year, crying because it was so difficult. Many of my students gave up
altogether skipping over questions because some of the math had no right answer
at all. The reason all of our great legislators support CC has to do
with the federal money tied to it. They will not give that up no matter how
angry everyone gets...and they really can't.
@ Bland- Common Core was written 10 years ago by educators, not the state of
Utah. Utah played a big part in it as we jumped on board with it at the very
beginning. Other states adopted it to have a set of standards that all children
should be able to master at certain grade levels.Here is the problem
with it. Students are expected to learn and master period. There is no
revisit. For example the old core let students be introduced to money in 1st,
taught a majority of items with money in 2nd, and reviewed it in 3,4 & 5th.
In CC students are taught money in 2nd and expected to master it.Students are
taught 10+ methods to add and subtract in 2nd grade and expected to master...
period.In 3rd grade students are expected to know all multiplication and
division facts by the end of the year. There is no time to revisit in 4th, 5th
or 6th. They just have to know. Why is this a problem? Kids are not machines
or lab rats. All children retain knowledge a little differently.
@BrentBot Salt Lake City, UTYou say"Why does Common
Core math require 11 steps to do a problem that you and I can do in two steps?
That's what is wrong with Common Core - it lacks Common Sense."Ok, where does it say that? Please... do tell us the section number of
the standard that tells you to do this?
Truth... let me answer with this quote from above"Too bad our
school districts don't put common core textbooks into our local libraries
to be studied by the paying public."This is the problem - there
is no such thing as a "common core textbook". It doesn't exist.
Period.But to your point Truth... I have actually read the Common
Core Standards... have you? For example, for six graders one of the standards
is as follows"CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.WHST.6-8.2.DUse precise
language and domain-specific vocabulary to inform about or explain the
topic."Thats it... or how about...'CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.WHST.6-8.4Produce clear and coherent writing in
which the development, organization, and style are appropriate to task, purpose,
and audience."That is it.... that all it states. Not how to do
it. Not what book to use. No lesson plans. Nothing. It simply states that
by the end of the 6th grade, a student should have these basic skills.So Truth, google it.... read it..... show me where it does anything
oppressive, where it is an over reach from Washington, where it tells a teacher
how to do anything.
For the bajillionth time, Common Core is written by the Utah State Office of
Education. President Obama had nothing to do with it. For the bajillionth
and first time, Common Core is written by the Utah State Office of Education.
President Obama had nothing to do with it. CC is not a federal
program. The standards in Oklahoma are totally separate from the standards in
Utah. The standards in New York have nothing to do with Utah. President Obama
and his administration probably have spent about 0.00001% of the presidency
thinking about Utah Common Core. I am not a Obama fan by any means, but I am a
large fan of STATE regulated education. Which is exactly what CC is. It is run
by the STATE of Utah. It perhaps needs tweaks and improvements. But the concept
is a good one. Anyone who can find this article and comment can peruse the CC
standards given on the USOE website. Which so far only Crisco and Vladhagen
(Both in FAVOR of CC) seem to have done.
@Vladhagen,I am hearing of vulgar language in literature books,
fuzzy math, stressed out kids, and inaccurate accounts of history. Tests are big
time money makers for big business.Put these textbooks into public
libraries, and let the people make the judgement.Why do we need
standardized approaches to education? Who decides what those approaches would
be? The liberal government?A past dictator once said, "let me
control education for eight years", and I can get people to believe in
Worf: I've seen the math textbooks. It's a bunch of gobbledygook!
There are terms that kids will never use in a lifetime again, 12 written pages
to explain one simple method, 4 ind. different ways to add, subtract, multiply,
and divide with arrays and models and pictures to over explain everything. How
can parents be expected to support their kids when it is like a foreign
language?Also, the tests are $35 per child to administer. Who is
paying for these (YOU), and who is catching the big bucks in the pocketbook?
(Guess?) Parents, have you seen your child's scores on the DWA or SAGE from
last year? I'm not sure about the policy to reveal the scores to anyone but
Anytime you have republicans in cahoots with democrats, it means that the
Republicans have basically jumped ship, which Democrats just don't do.
Also known as Rino's.
Why does Common Core math require 11 steps to do a problem that you and I can do
in two steps? That's what is wrong with Common Core - it lacks Common
The common core is fine, but my children don't even have text books. We
used to be able to take textbooks home to read, and work sample problems. Now
it is all worksheets. Without a textbook, there is nowhere to go to see
examples.Utah is falling behind in Math and Science. Getting
textbooks for students would be a great place to start catching up.
Well governor Herbert I hope you are reading some of the comments. My
granddaughter was taken out of the 4th grade because of the testing, testing,
testing. If you've ever helped with their math homework you will know why
kids are hating it. It was making her a very unhappy little girl. This
data mining is horrible. The kids are followed all the way through school, I
know they've been doing that, but they also keep track of the families. No,
I don't want that. None of their business.
Would anyone care to take the time to delineate the pros and cons of Common
Core, with specific examples, so those of us without students in the household
currently could better understand the controversy? I don't favor federal
intrusion into local affairs and sometimes "standardization" is not
beneficial, but it would be helpful to know more specifics about this. Thanks.
What does Utah's Common Core have to do with NY or IL? CC is implemented on
a state by state basis. NY has nothing to do with UT's CC Standards.
@BrentBot. As Vladhagen mentions, there are suggested (Grades 6-8, I'm
looking at the Core standards document straight from USOE as I write) texts of
historical value that focus on slavery and racial civil rights (e.g.
Autobiography of Frederick Douglass). These movements were progressive, true.
And I hope that even in the most conservative state of Utah that we can embrace
these movements. Right along side these historical works there are
texts suggested like "Letter on Thomas Jefferson" by John Adams. We
consider both these men Founding Fathers. The Core Statndards also have a text
that is listed as a historically "exemplar" document called
"Preamble and First Amendment to the United States Constitution." And it
means that 1787 document that was in fact rather "progressive" for its
day. And was written by our beloved Founding Fathers.I vote
Republican. I am in favor of gun rights. I oppose abortion. I oppose the federal
government taking over my life. And I am in favor of Common Core.
I don't know much about anything but am upset and will err on the side of
caution and oppose the Feds because... Obama.
I am a proponent of Common Core. What reasons do people have for battling
against it? We need standardized approaches to education. These common standards
are made on a state, not a national, level (As many seem to think). A competent
teacher can teach the material with great success. Some of the biggest
gripes I have heard from actual elementary teachers have been about the math. It
is "too hard" they say. Too hard? You are getting beaten up by 3rd grade
math? Really? If I was that bad at math I would never publicly admit it. Please
tell me you do not also read on a 3rd grade level.The talk of
"socialists" is...disturbing. Looking at the Utah Common Core materials
for language arts, there are example texts on slavery and the Civil Rights
Movement. Which part of the abolishment of slavery is too "socialist"
for you? Utah has become far too full of radical reactionaries I
UtahBlueDevil Durham, NCthen you tell us.... what is
right with Common Core? Based on your research of the subject, and your
willingness to discredit those who oppose the standard, Name one specific thing
it dictates that you object to. A reference would be appreciated
I'm betting that these political "insiders" don't help
elementary students with their homework. And I'm betting they have never
reviewed the personally intrusive test questions asked of students under Common
Core. Why, oh why do we have to be governed by folks so ill informed?
When parents say "we need to keep decisions at a local level", it just
means "our kids need dumber standards".
if you have to ask what is wrong you obviously are clueless. there are hundreds
of reasons, but to me and millions of other patriots, federal control and edicts
over our children is not a good course of action. if you would look at history,
anytime a federal government controls what our youth are taught nothing good
comes of it.....germany, japan, italy, china, vietnam and the list goes on.
there are billions of dollars to be made with businesses cuddling up to this
program. the fact obama and his liberal pals are for it should give a person a
clue that it can't be a good thing. numerous national surveys and articles
in the washington post, new york times tell a grim story of the fallacies and
problems with common core, less. you might try reading up on it rather than
swallow the liberal talking points.
Too bad our school districts don't put common core textbooks into our local
libraries to be studied by the paying public.Many tax payers,
don't have children attending schools, and have no excess to what they are
paying for. We don't know what common core is teaching. We only have hear
say. I have gone to five different schools wanting to rent a few
textbooks, only to be turned down.
When state "insiders" sell us out to the federals its time to look
forward to the next election. We need a census of who is selling out.
Ute alumni... then you tell us.... what is wrong with Common Core? Based on
your research of the subject, and your willingness to discredit those who
support the standard, Name one specific thing it dictates that you object to. A
reference would be appreciated.
The indication from the survey is that the 'outsiders" know very
little, but have strong opinions about what they don't know. Rabble rousing
the base with half truths and falsehoods is not productive.
My kid was made to give a blood sample when taking the SAGE test.
Any legislator who supports Common Core needs to be voted out of office.Study how, where and when Common Core came about and you'll find
it's just one more notch, on the agenda, the socialists have put forth to
indoctrinate our children. Look beyond the standards, dig deeper and you'll
walk away from it too.
The insiders don't know anything about education. Why are the teachers in
New York and Illinois opposed to Common Core? Why is "progressive"
propaganda infused in the History Standards which pay scant attention to the
Constitution and the Founding Fathers?
If that is what the "insiders" say, then let's make them outsiders
very soon. I doubt any of them know the first thing about common core...less