Policy disagreement

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  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    July 28, 2014 8:19 p.m.

    Oh somebody please help me, I can't stop laughing...that airnut is so cleaver. His revered and treasured centralized government is going to step in and decree that minimum wage in the peoples republic of seattle will be $15/hour. The trade off is that the same revered government will partner in the pot business, promoting the sale of product to all degenerates in the state of Washington. He thinks that makes him less of a socialist. Have you washed your hands lately? Go practice your articles of faith.

    I love it when a leftist preaches to all of us about abortion, and how they abhor it, while in the same breath defending and promoting it, to the tune of millions of abortions preformed in this country every year. 90% of them solely for convenience sake. And then the really funny part is when they say it is an issue that is solely between the woman and her doctor, until it comes time to pay for it, then they want their employer, the government and all the rest of society to get "involved".

  • USU-Logan Logan, UT
    July 28, 2014 6:12 p.m.

    Grandpa Smart should discern the difference between abortion and abortion right. Nobody likes abortion, but in such complicated situation, it should be the pregnant woman and her doctor's choice to make medical decisions, not church, and definitely not the big government.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    July 28, 2014 4:22 p.m.

    Othello, WA
    Wouldn't be nice if libs were as eager to keep their grubby hands out of all areas of our lives, as they are to keep their hands out of abortion restrictions!


    You mean like you now have in Washington State with marijuana and a minimum wage of $15 an hour?

    Must be horrible to be in your shoes...

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    July 28, 2014 11:12 a.m.

    Wouldn't be nice if libs were as eager to keep their grubby hands out of all areas of our lives, as they are to keep their hands out of abortion restrictions! They love to support the abortion industry, its one of their articles of faith!

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    July 28, 2014 10:09 a.m.


    I wish that we all had the certainty that you seem to possess. That is you know with absolute certainty what Jesus wants from a woman with a dangerous pregnancy. Or presumably what He thinks of birth control as well.

    Well, most of the truly righteous and religious people I know don't pontificate at that level. They act out their belief, and don't preach it so resolutely. My religious friends acknowledge that life is precious, but that there are circumstances that allow for the termination of a pregnancy. They see the gray areas, and allow that others can believe differently, yet still be considered "righteous" and "true believers".

    I don't really know why this issue is more complicated than that. But then again, we certainly have a lot of people who claim the absolute possession of absolute truth. Somebody has to be wrong here, and I suspect it a bit of modesty might go a long way in this debate.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    July 28, 2014 8:19 a.m.


    Why should someone else's motives for an abortion be your concern?

    "War for just causes, to protect home and free people from an oppressor is sometimes necessary, ..."

    What about war for oil and to protect businesses interests? Are they "just wars"? Most modern wars (Including Iraq) are about oil and business.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    July 28, 2014 7:41 a.m.


    What has your religion got to do with someone else's right to control their own body?

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    July 28, 2014 7:28 a.m.


    I am in disagreement with Ronald Reagan and his policies.

    I find it difficult to appreciate Ronald Reagan for his support of abortion.

    Ronald Reagan signed into law an abortion bill that led to the murder of over 2,000,000 babies.

    I look forward to your next letter condemning Ronald Reagan.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 27, 2014 8:38 p.m.

    @Jazzsmack "Do you really believe Christ would go down this road of unaccountability and no responsibility and make it easy to abuse the god-given power to create life?"

    The Bible offers three different circumstances in which it is acceptable to terminate unborn human life.

    I'm glad that the U.S. abortion rate has declined under Obama.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    July 27, 2014 7:00 p.m.


    So the writer takes more than half of his letter to describe his qualifications.

    He is an old Mormon man with offspring . . . And that makes him, in his mind,qualified to judge what women can and cannot do with their bodies.

    I disagree.

    Women have the right to choose whether they want kids, and that's the way it should be.

    "Thankfully, there are still more good people in the world than bad."

    Right. And that's why we have legalized abortions in this nation.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    July 27, 2014 6:19 p.m.

    Bruce, I am with you. The reason that we have such a divide in this country is that there are people who will think Obama is doing fine whatever he does. He forces his takeover of health care down our throats and then selectively implements his own law when he figures out that there is going to be blow back as millions of people lose their health plans. He tells the American people that they will be able to keep their doctor even though the law clearly did not contemplate it. Now the administration is in a panic because the law they wrote does not authorize subsidies for those who purchase health care policies from the feds. Those subsidies are needed to buy votes. Not to worry, he will rely on a liberal court to change the plain language of the statute ti fix his mess.

    President Obama has amassed more debt than all other presidents combined. Now that is incredible - spending more then Pres. Bush. Regardless of what he does, there are those who love Obama.

    Bruce, I am with you, but there are plenty who have joined the personality cult of Obama.

    BEEN I did not think much

  • Jazzsmack Holladay, UT
    July 27, 2014 5:37 p.m.

    @LDS liberal

    All you have demonstrated is the left will turn on its own when they no longer has use for them, like they have with the unborn.

    Abortion clinics were created by the extreme left to remove undesirables from the population. No wonder it is such strong platform of the left (and not the right).

    Do you really believe Christ would go down this road of unaccountability and no responsibility and make it easy to abuse the god-given power to create life?

  • Atlas Smashed Santa Monica, CA
    July 27, 2014 5:34 p.m.

    "Using Hitler is a speech epithet in a debate, Can Real Maverick prove any of his points, Abortion is dangerous for fetus and not until last two decades few people have heard of same gender marriage. Republican never have suppressed women. Where do you get your facts?"

    Your post at 9:55 am is the first Hitler reference. If you think using Hitler is unfair then why did you bring him up?

    What facts have you presented? How many abortions are performed for convenience? How do you know the mother's health wasn't involved? How many abortions were performed with our tax dollars (as the letter writer wrote)? Do you have any facts to back up your opinions?

    This letter is a sad example of how the thinking process in conservative America has stopped. Want to meet low information voters? Look no further than this letter and a few of the commentators in support of it.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 5:20 p.m.

    Sometimes the letters published here are rather embarrassing as to the real facts and the real truth. I wonder why people don't do a little research first before putting their names on letters that clearly are not factual...It just shows a lack of research. But in fairness it provokes intellectual conversations.

  • Bob K Davis, CA
    July 27, 2014 4:13 p.m.

    Another person grasping at straws to dislike this President.

    First of all, abortion is legal under Federal law, so the President includes it in his policies, rather than contravening the law.
    Second, if you listen to the man speak, you know he is reasonable, not extreme.
    Third, as someone mentioned, hundreds of thousands died in badly chosen wars that one suspects were waged mainly to make the friends of Dick Cheney, et al, even richer. That seems the height of immorality to me.

    Last, with respect, I am a bit dubious that an lds member who was 50 years old in 1978 can easily approve of this President, no matter what he does.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    July 27, 2014 3:21 p.m.

    Using Hitler is a speech epithet in a debate, Can Real Maverick prove any of his points, Abortion is dangerous for fetus and not until last two decades few people have heard of same gender marriage. Republican never have suppressed women. Where do you get your facts?

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    July 27, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    @Maudine few abortions are to save the life of the mother, most are for reasons of convenience. People get the death penalty because they were found guilty of murder of someone innocent. And no Police wants to use deadly force sometimes have too to protect them and someone innocent a split 2nd decision. For those that support abortion should we kill children under say the age of two because of bad circumstances they don't want to live life.

    That child you chose to do acts that could result in pregnancy don't do things to get pregnant if you don't want to be. Murder is the intentional and unjustified taking of a human life. War for just causes, to protect home and free people from an oppressor is sometimes necessary, And Lightbearer accidents and things happen thanks to the fall, but we do not have a right to intentionally cause death of someone do to inconvenience. God permits things because it would defeat the purpose of mortality, and some people misuse there agency to do evil. Agency is not the right to do whatever you want. Laws for a reason. .

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 27, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    @ higv

    Did you know that Hitler and his Nazis focused to control am radio so that they could spread misinformation and lies? Did you know that he created a department to deport and/or liquidate immigrants and minorities, suppress women, and outlaw gay marriage and abortion?

    Of the 2 American political parties, which 1 controls am radio? Which 1 has the anti-immigrant, anti-minority, anti-gay marriage, and anti-abortion platform?

    If you think that European fascism from the 1930s is a bad idea, then why would you ever support today's modern GOP?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 27, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    War is simply late term abortion. VERY late term. . . . But the GOP seems to support that kind of abortion.


  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    July 27, 2014 12:20 p.m.

    I don't like abortion either but it is legal, should be safe and rare but this absurd attitude that good healthcare and education is a privilege not a right and deserved only by those who can afford it is the only reason it is an issue. Roland correctly stated previously that abortions are down. It is primarily because access of contraceptives has increased not because the government is paying. With all due respect, the call to be informed applies to all.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    July 27, 2014 12:00 p.m.

    Politicans say they want to serve you but they only tell you what to do and serve themselves with your tax dollars.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 27, 2014 11:55 a.m.

    Dietrich, ID

    What did fetuses do to deserve death, be conceived at inconvenient time? No one wants to go to war, but there are evil governments and war is sometimes necessary to preserve freedom. If it wasn't for war Hitler would of been much worse.
    9:55 a.m. July 27, 2014


    Are you sure you want to open that can of worms?

    1936 --
    The Reich Central Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion (German: Reichszentrale zur Bekämpfung der Homosexualität und der Abtreibung) was the central instrument of Nazi Germany for the persecution of homosexuals and the fight against abortion.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    July 27, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    @ higv: Do you support the death penalty? Do you support the use of deadly force in the prevention of crime?

    If a fetus is in the process of maiming or killing a woman, why should we let that action be completed - especially when it is more than likely that the fetus, if successful in causing the harm, will die anyway? Is it better to lose two lives when one can be saved?

    Should we allow a woman to be held hostage?

    Why is the unborn fetus accorded greater status and respect than the living, breathing woman?

    And should that fetus be carried to term, how much financial support are you willing to give to that child and its mother? Or are you going to condemn them because she shouldn't have children if she can't afford to take care of them and isn't married?

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:58 a.m.

    Re Mr. Smart

    You probably voted for Romney against Obama correct? He had been pro abortion his entire lifetime until shortly before he announced publically he was going to run for president on the Republican ticket.

    Voting for Romney wouldn't have helped you achieve our common goal of stopping this slaughter, and worse you would have felt betrayed when he made his decisions on who to put on the supreme court, similar to what happened with President Reagan.

    Personally I would rather have someone be president who honestly and openly disagrees with my position than someone who pretends to share my point of view just so they can get elected to office.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:14 a.m.

    Dietrich, ID

    No one wants to go to war, but there are evil governments and war is sometimes necessary to preserve freedom. If it wasn't for war Hitler would of been much worse.
    9:55 a.m. July 27, 2014


    In 1936 the Nazis created "the Reich Central Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion": Special Office (II S), a subdepartment of Executive Department II of the Gestapo.

    Are you sure you want to go here?...

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:10 a.m.

    Bans federal funding for abortions aside from those exceptions I mean...

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:09 a.m.

    Federal law bans paying for abortions with the exceptions of rape, incest, and life of mother.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    War is an abortion on the people. Funded by tax payers.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    July 27, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    What did fetuses do to deserve death, be conceived at inconvenient time? No one wants to go to war, but there are evil governments and war is sometimes necessary to preserve freedom. If it wasn't for war Hitler would of been much worse.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 27, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    With all due respect, and without a litany of progeny to support it, I think President Obama is doing fine. You still don't have to get an abortion if you don't want one, and you can serve your church if you want. But, government is not a la carte, and we all pay for things we don't like. And, although we can each have an opinion on the matter, there is at least half the population that is underqualified to make reproductive health decisions for women.

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    July 27, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    Say that there was Someone who could prevent millions of abortions a year without infringing on anyone's free agency merely by wiggling His finger, and yet He refused to do so? Would you "disagree with His policy"? Would you "find it difficult to appreciate" Him? Would you call Him evil, and condemn His inaction, or would you praise and offer excuses for Him?

    According to Hope Xchange, "approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. ... some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss." And the March of Dimes states that "as many as half of all pregnancies may end in miscarriage - we don't know the exact number because many may happen before a woman knows she's pregnant."

    All of those millions of miscarriages, also called spontaneous abortions (naturally occurring events which have nothing to do with medical or surgical abortions), could be prevented if Someone would only wiggle His finger, but He declines to do so.

    Yet where's the disapproval, where's the condemnation, where's the outrage, where's the letter to the editor?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 27, 2014 9:38 a.m.


    Nah --
    40 years later, it's all OBAMA's fault!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    July 27, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    I am an active member of the church, and as such I have served in many positions. I think President Obama is one of the most moral men to have ever served in the position. Do you want me to list the reasons?

  • Stormwalker Cleveland , OH
    July 27, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    I don't get it. This person is older and married and has several children and has held a bunch of volunteer positions in a religious group.

    Is this somehow supposed to give him expertise on social issues? Knowledge of the real experience of poor women? Insight into reproductive health? A podium to expound on legal issues?

    This letter is quite disconnected, but it seems like the writer feels personal reproductive history and volunteer record provides a firm position from which to criticize others and criticize policies they really don't understand and have mischaracterized.

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    July 27, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    "When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

    - Barry Goldwater 1994

    Who would have thought that he would be the moderate voice of reason? Heck, he would be considered a RINO today!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 27, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    It's this kind of simplistic view of our politics that has led to the destruction of the middle-class, the hijacking of the Republican Party by extremists, and the overall lack of progress our nation is making.

    I would encourage you all to read the best-selling book, "American Fascists" by Chris Hedges. Fascism hasn't come to America in the form of a swastica, but in the form of the bible wrapped in the American flag.

    But when you see one political party today using nationalism and religion to take away women's rights, divide our country from the producers and takers, and blame our narion's problems on minorities, you can see why Germany became enchanted with this siren in the 30s and wonder just how much further we will fall down their same path?

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    July 27, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    Planned Parenthood itself isn’t about abortion. It’s primarily about contraception and reproductive health. And if Planned Parenthood loses funding, what will mainly happen is that cancer screenings and contraception and STD testing will become less available to poorer people. Folks with more money, of course, have many other ways to receive all these services, and tend to get them elsewhere already.

    The fight also isn’t about cutting spending. The services Planned Parenthood provides save the federal government a lot of money. It’s somewhat cold to put it in these terms, but taxpayers end up bearing a lot of the expense for unintended pregnancies among people without the means to care for their children.

    Bruce did you oppose Bush and his two wars for oil and the killing of nearly a million people and not to mention seven thousand US soldiers in the last twelve years?

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    July 27, 2014 8:00 a.m.

    Please let me correct you, abortion services account for about 3 percent of Planned Parenthood’s activities. That’s less than cancer screening and prevention (16 percent), STD testing for both men and women (35 percent), and contraception (also 35 percent). About 80 percent of Planned Parenthood’s users are over age 20, and 75 percent have incomes below 150 percent of the poverty line. Planned Parenthood itself estimates it prevents more than 620,000 unintended pregnancies each year, and 220,000 abortions. It’s also worth noting that federal law already forbids Planned Parenthood from using the funds it receives from the government for abortions.

    President Obama support Planned Parenthood not abortion. Please if you will tell us where he actually says he supports abortion.

  • Utah Dem Ogden, UT
    July 27, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    Isn't it just that you don't like this president? Abortions have been funded by Medicaid and insurance companies since the mid-70s. What does being a member of 'the church' and having many church callings have to do with disagreements in abortion issues? Does free agency not factor in when it's an issue you disagree with?

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    July 27, 2014 7:35 a.m.

    I don't think abortion is a good way to deal with a problem. The best way to deal with unwanted pregnancy is to not get pregnant in the first place. Ergo, birth control.

    That being said, there is a good reason(s) for a woman to terminate a pregnancy. People of good faith and intentions may argue endlessly for what those reasons might be, but there are circumstances wherein the pregnancy is best ended.

    Therefore, I am very comfortable in saying that this dreaded decision should be made by between that woman, her family, her medical professional and her faith. To interject my opinion, your opinion, or anyone else's is not the American way.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 27, 2014 6:58 a.m.

    And just where do you get your information Bruce....oh, I get it.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 6:54 a.m.

    The previous President took us to war and cost the lives of thousands and thousands and thousands of civilians and U.S. troops.

    The web of pain and suffering from PTSD and other life destroying injuries goes on and on and on!

    MY President Obama is a great man and a great leader.

    A woman's right to choose is one of the freedoms that should be in place in our democracy.

    I hope Utah can rally behind our next Democrat in Chief in a more patriotic way than they've shown with MY AWESOME PRESIDENT OBAMA!

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 27, 2014 3:04 a.m.

    There has been a law on the books since the 1970's that prevents federal tax funds from being used to finance abortions. That law is still being enforced. I read constantly about people complaining that their tax dollars are being used to pay for abortions. They are not, stop worrying.

    Also you may be interested to know that the abortion rate is down by 15% since Obama became president.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    July 27, 2014 1:24 a.m.

    I am in agreement with our current president and his policies. I am a 60 year old active member of the church with 5 children and 15 grandchildren. I am glad that there are still good people in the world.


  • Maudine SLC, UT
    July 27, 2014 12:41 a.m.

    There is no financial support from the government authorized for abortions except for very, very poor women when there is a severe threat to the woman's health or in cases of tape or incest - the exact same instances supported by your church and the same restrictions that have been in place for over 30 years.

    You don't have to like Obama, but at least be fully informed about the issues which you disagree with him on.