Brad Rock: Decades later, equality still a problem for college sports

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  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 25, 2014 8:14 a.m.


    I fully intend to enjoy the Ute's membership in the Pac 12 and I'm quite sure it will last a good long time. With all the former Ute players in the pro ranks and all the success so many or our other graduates are having, I fully expect the level of donations for the athletic programs to continue to increase along with conference revenue from the Pac 12. The future is bright for sports at the U and I'm going to enjoy the ride.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 24, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    But it sure got you worked up, in fact anything that is suggested that utah obviously can't qualify to accomplish always gets you guys worked up.

    It may not matter long term, what Bronco suggested may happen on its own because programs like utah that simply lose money year after year cannot continue for ever.

    I personally don't claim to know what the future will bring but I can tell you this, utah doesn't have any leverage to shape or structure anything either, they are not in the slightest bit a power broker. They are simply along for the ride with powers much greater than themselves and will only be along for that ride while the real powers that be allow them to be. Enjoy it while it lasts, the future has a way of getting here eventually, time is relentless.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 23, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    In the end it doesn't really matter what BYU or Bronco want. They don't have a lot of leverage when it comes to structuring the upper tier of college football anyway. So Bronco's idea likely will never be seriously considered.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 23, 2014 1:50 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    I doubt Bronco cares if BYU keeps that info private or not and even more highly doubt he has any input on whether it is kept private or not. That said the fact that BYU's athletic department turns a profit has not been kept private, they have made a public statement about that fact for the last several years. That is church officals making official statements on the matter and that should be good enough for you, end of discussion.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 23, 2014 9:38 a.m.


    I didn't question anyone's integrity in anything I said. You misinterpreted my statement. I am fully aware of why public schools make their information public and why private ones don't. I don't care if I can see the information or not. The schools would likely have to report to the NCAA and that would be fine with me. As far as the right to information from a private school, I'm not the one who made it an issue. Bronco did. If he wants BYU to be able to keep that information private, then he shouldn't propose that certain opportunities be based on it. He can't have it both ways.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 22, 2014 9:43 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    You did question their integrity. That said I'm sure if profitability were made to be a requirement then there would be a system in place to verify that schools are actually profitable, and I would have no problem with that and I doubt BYU would either.

    But that is different than what you appear to be asking for which is public disclosure. There is no need for that nor should there be, as long as whoever has oversight of that requirement has access then that is good enough.

    Also public universities do not go out of their way to publicize their finances, disclosure for them is a matter of law and it should be since the public part of public university is the one funding it and by right should have access to that info.

    one thing some of you university of utah fans, you and dutchman in particular, need to comprehend is that the university of utah is a public school, it is not private, nothing about it is private, and as such it is open for all to scrutinize. BYU is a private university, you have no right to any info from them.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 2:23 p.m.


    Nope. Funny how you can take something I said and twist it to mean what you want. I didn't question Tom Holmoe or anybody else at BYU in saying they are well funded and prepared to do what they need to in the current college football environment.

    Let me take you back to the original context of my statement. I was referring to Bronco's stated opinion that, since BYU is profitable he believes only profitable athletic programs should be eligible for the Big 5 conferences and therefore the national title in football. I simply stated that if he wants that requirement, BYU should open its books as should every other private university that wants to be a part of the group. The public universities already disclose their information. I stated I believe that is the only way to ensure that requirement is met and applied properly. That's it. I didn't question anybody's integrity or call anyone a liar as you have accused me of doing.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 2:15 p.m.


    I'm not backtracking at all and I won't back down from that statement. I know Bronco doesn't make policy for the university, but he made that statement. I would apply that to all private universities, if such a rule were put in place. You have to accept and own what your team's Coach has said especially since you have proclaimed such loyalty to officials who have been selected by Church authorities. I didn't say it wasn't credible and didn't imply that, but if they are going to make it a requirement we have to have full disclosure. If they don't want to do that, they need to back off that statement.

    I have looked up all the numbers and am very familiar with what is out on the internet. Every number posted there for BYU as an asterisk by it stating it is an estimate. Thank you for finally citing your source and I will take that to be credible, but I don't change my position on what Bronco said.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 22, 2014 1:37 p.m.

    All of that said mormon ute it really isn't any business of yours and if BYU makes a statement that they turn a profit on athletics then that should be enough for you. They aren't just lying about it.

    When BYU officals, in this case Tom Holmoe, say that BYU is willing and able to match and do financially whatever the "power 5" do for its athletic programs then that statement right there tells you all you need to know.

    They are well funded, obviously better than most other schools since they actually turn a profit, their facilities are obviously as good or better than anyone elses, they succeed to a degree few other schools can match, and they've stated they'll do what they need to do to stay in that position.

    I take them at their word, you apparently think they need to hire an accountant and report back to you.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 22, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    Nope, you made the following statement.

    "I think that before a BYU official makes a big deal about making a profit, like Bronco did at their media day, they should have to disclose their numbers like all the public schools do."

    In otherwords you are saying that Bronco, and Tom Holmoe, and BYU itself which has reported to the press that it makes a profit every year on its athletic department, is not credible. Don't backtrack now, you put it out there so own it.

    You can google athletic revenues and get articles that give those numbers and yes the ones on BYU are only estimates because they don't publicly disclose them. When the 43 mil figure was reported several years ago I asked a family member who is a high ranking BYU amdinistrator, and this is a very close family member, if that figure was accurate. She told me that it wasn't exactly right, it was actually a little bit higher than that, but it was close enough that BYU would not dispute it.

    Considering one of her responsibilities is oversight and auditing of the athletic department I would call her credible enough.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 12:21 p.m.


    When I say I want them to open their books, I am saying I want a level playing field before rules are proposed and established based on that kind of information. Bronco called for only schools who balance their books to be considered top tier in college football. The only way to make sure of that is to open the books. That is the only prudent way to protect everyone and make sure nobody is hiding anything. It is not directed specifically at BYU.

    However, since you brought the subject up. Do you think the Brethren trust everyone at BYU as completely as you claim to? Then why do they have a large internal audit staff dedicated to examining the books every year and making sure internal controls are adequate to prevent theft? Why does the Church audit every unit twice each year? Don't they trust the Bishops who have each been approved for their callings by the First Presidency? No, having these auditors in place doesn't indicate mistrust, but merely insures proper accounting. That's all I'm calling for.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 12:13 p.m.


    What BYU officials are you referring to? So far you have only stated you know the $43 million figure to be accurate, but you haven't stated how you know that. Who is your source? All I've done is asked you to tell us who gave you the information. You haven't even told us it was a BYU official. You've only said you have personal knowledge of it. Are you a BYU official yourself? I haven't called anyone a liar. In fact it is quite impossible for me to call a BYU official a liar when you didn't name that official or even tell us it was an official of BYU who gave you the information.

    So, it appears at this point you have at least told us you got the $43 million figure from a BYU official. Is that correct? I understand completely if the official you talked to asked not to be identified. But I'd ask that you not accuse me of calling that person a liar, since you didn't even disclose that is where you got the information.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 12:06 p.m.


    No, I'm not calling anyone a liar. I called you out on whether your numbers were facts or estimates. So far, you haven't named a source for any of your information and have readily admitted BYU doesn't release its financial information publicly. You stated a $43 million figure from 4 years ago that you kind of indicated was given by BYU, but then have declined to name the source of that information. So I have asked you to name your source. If it is the Apostles and First Presidency, great! I'll take that as factual, but you have not said that. You have simply said you know that $43 million figure to be factual. I am pressing you for a source, because you have pressed others to reveal sources for their information.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    Old But Not Stupid,

    I am not any more obsessed with the Cougars than Duckhunter is with the Utes. As a member of the LDS Church I follow BYU sports as much as the media reports on them. I don't watch their games and I didn't watch the live coverage of their media day. I read a few articles about what some of the prominent BYU officials said. I'm a bit of news junkie and I read several newspapers a day so I see a lot of articles about a lot of different things.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 22, 2014 11:13 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    Unlike you apparently I consider the leaders chosen by the apostles of the church to be "credible". You see I don't think the brethren would tolerate otherwise. Maybe you should take your issues up with them and let them know how you feel the individuals they chose to lead their university are not "credible" and apparently are lying.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 22, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    So you are calling the officials at BYU "liars"? You are saying that if they don't personally open their books to you that the leadership the trustee's of BYU (note that is the Prophet and the apostles of the religion you supposedly adhere to) chose to lead the churches own university are liars and not to be believed? And then of course that means that those same trustee's allow those people to propogate the lies you are accusing them of telling. So in one swell swoop you are calling the leadership of the church and the churches university of lying. Nice.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    July 22, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    Mormon Ute
    "I think that before a BYU official makes a big deal about making a profit, like Bronco did at their media day, they should have to disclose their numbers like all the public schools do. Otherwise, they should drop the issue and so should you."

    Ahh. Spoken like a true democrat; everyone must do what the public schools do. Then adding insult to injury private schools can't share ("..drop the issue..") positive PR info?

    You don't have to watch their media day. Why does anyone who "does not care" obsessively care about these things anyway?

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    July 22, 2014 9:09 a.m.

    Mormon Ute
    Kaysville, UT


    Are they facts or estimates? You can't have it both ways. In your reply to DuckOutaWater you start by claiming the numbers on BYU are just estimates and that the real numbers may be higher and then you end claiming they are facts. So which is it?"

    Gee, I thought it was pretty clear that he gave us/you some estimates and his projection based on some I don't think your demand for "either, or" works very smoothly.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2014 8:52 a.m.


    I only got into this discussion with you in response to your claims about the money. I think that before a BYU official makes a big deal about making a profit, like Bronco did at their media day, they should have to disclose their numbers like all the public schools do. Otherwise, they should drop the issue and so should you.

    The standard you hold everyone else to on the boards regarding facts is they have to cite a credible source, so you should live by that standard yourself.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    July 22, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    81 Ute

    "Do you really believe that there are only a handful of university athletic departments that are operationally solvent? Seriously?"

    Didn't the article indicate that 25 programs operated in the black. Doesn't that make for at least 5 handfuls? Seriously?

    I "really believe" that 4 out of 5 programs DO NOT show positive revenues.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 21, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    I'm personally privy to that 43 mil number. Whether or not you want to believe it is your issue. There is a story out there, you can google it, that estimates that figure so all that does is back up what I already know.

    One thing I didn't make clear though so I better clarify it for your sake, those are revenue figures, not budget figures. That means what BYU brings in is more than it actually spends. You know as well as I do that they have said they are profiting about 5 mil per year on their athletic department so that means BYU's revenue exceeeds its expenditures. They may be bringing in 50+ mil but only be spending 45 mil, I don't know the exact figures for that. Either way I'm not sure why that is an issue for utah "fans" such as yourself. What BYU earns and spends really has no bearing on utah other than I understand it is a matter of ego for utah "fans" to think that utah has more revenue than BYU, spends more money than BYU, etc. even though we both know they lose money anyway at utah.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 21, 2014 12:24 p.m.


    Scares me?! LOL. You've got to be kidding. Nothing about BYU sports or BYUtv scares me one bit. I'm a Ute fan, but I'm also LDS. I love the great things BYU does for the Church and the community. I'd love to see BYU get into a big conference and was sincerely disappointed that the Pac 12 chose to invite Colorado instead of BYU. I love the rivalry and the better each team is the better the rivalry is. So nothing scares me and if that's what you think motivates my comments, you're not reading them right.

    Facts? Really? But BYU doesn't release those do they? The $43 million would have also been an estimate, unless somehow BYU slipped and released the actual number.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 21, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    You are floundering, in multiple ways.

    That BYU's athletic revenues were 43mil 4 years ago is a fact, hence I called it a fact. That they have increased because of the ESPN contract since that time is a fact, hence I called it a fact. The exact amount of the increase from the ESPN contract is not something I know but estimates have been anywhere from 6-10 mil per year so that is where my "estimate" comes from. You see comprehension is your friend mormon ute. If BYU already was at 43 mil, and they have now increase 6-10 mil just on the ESPn contract (plus I'm sure other revenue sources have increased all well because that is how it works) plus they make money on the WCC contract, then 50 mil is a good "estimate". facts plus just a small amount of logic applied to it gives us those things. lol

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 21, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    You don't know half of what you think you know when it comes to BYUtv it appears.

    No BYUtv is not going to "make or break" BYU sports but it is a huge component in BYU sports future. It is a massive advantage for BYU sports, not a detriment at all, because if BYU chose to join a conference like the big12 they don't have to worry about a contract to get out of or any other entangelement. BYUtv is there for BYU sports but BYU sports doesn't have to rely on BYUtv. If a conference wanted BYU but did not want BYUtv then BYU sports could decide if it was worth it to go that direction, but that won't be the case.

    Much more likely would be that BYUtv would be shared with a conference to increase coverage and exposure with no cost or risk to the conference, much like it has with the WCC. It is an asset not a hindrance.

    As for revenue from it, well like I said those things are being explored, I know this personally, and there are some very attractive options there. Interesting how it scares you.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 21, 2014 8:18 a.m.


    I actually do know quite a bit about BYUtv and the impact sports has on it. I also know about the broadcast truck and all the studios. Do you know about the millions the Church is spending each year on original programming for BYUtv? I'm sure sports were part of the plan all along, but you made it out to appear as though BYUtv would somehow make or break BYU's sport program. If that is the case, it's going to be tough sledding. Good luck getting the Big 12 to let BYU in while allowing the level of broadcasting BYUtv has now. BYUtv will never generate the kind of revenue BYU would get from major conference participation. The ratings just aren't there to bring in that kind of money.

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    July 20, 2014 9:36 p.m.

    @ Rollover: You're right, we need to up the ante. Maybe the Utes can help more athletes with Ipods, weddings, honeymoons, and assorted personal vehicles....

    Should be able to put a Dodge Charger in every athlete's garage, yes? :)

    Recruitment problems? Rolly, you're not staying up with your reading... U recruitment has resulted in improvements in a variety of positions, including walk-on's, JC transfers, 4-yr transfers, returned injured starters, and especially speed. So we'll see how the U does versus other P12 teams; every P12 team is improving it seems, so "improvement" is always dependent on the competition.

    Missed a couple of great locals lately, but Signing Day isn't here yet.

    So all in all, we'll take it. Methinks you would too if you could.

    But of course you can't, so of course that's just academic.

    B12 call yet?

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    July 20, 2014 7:16 p.m.

    Unfortunately, much of the new money is likely to be spent building faciliities for the same 3 star athletes Utah was getting before they got into the PAC-12. And paying the same coaches more money.

    There certainly hasn't been any objective improvement in football recruiting since joining the PAC-12 and while I would like to think things will get better, I've yet to see anything that demonstrates that there's any rational reason to think things will improve (they were 11th or 12th last year depending on the recruiting service).

    More likely is the unfortunate unintended consequence of more top-level Utah HS athletes going out of state to PAC-12 schools, since they get more exposure and can come back home to play the U. While the U playing conference games in OR, WA, CA and AZ gives them some exposure to HS athletes there, SLC is, unfortunately, in the eyes of recruits the 10th most desireable market (probably better than Corvallis and Pullman) in the conferece.

    Spending millions on "me too" facilities won't give Utah the hook they need.

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    July 20, 2014 3:34 p.m.

    Follow-on to "Power 5 College Football Playoff Revenues":

    Wow, those numbers are Unreal (!!!), no wonder the B12 is protecting their shares...

    And to think this is every year, Goodness Gracious.

    Since Tom has said he's going to do whatever it takes, might just have to change that 10% to 15%.

    Have to Keep Up With The Jones'es!!! :)

    Oooooh, it's sooooo Great to be a Ute!!

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    July 20, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    FYI to All Bloggers: P5 football playoff revenues for 2014, per USA Today:

    - $50M to each of the P5 conferences. Right up front.
    - +$300K for each school in a conference surpassing the NCAA APR/Academic Progress target which is required to allow them to participate in a bowl.
    - Conferences receive $6M for each team selected for the Final Four.
    - Conferences receive $4M for each team selected for a non-playoff bowl.
    - Plus whatever revenue conferences have for contracts with non-playoff bowls - ACC is quoted as expecting to receive $27.5M for its contract with the Orange Bowl.
    - Notre Dame receives $2.3M for being Notre Dame.
    - The other 3 independents split $922,658 (wow - $307K for BYU) unless of course they make one of the Final Four games.

    And these numbers do not include "normal" conference membership payoffs, and Utah should be receiving full share this year.

    And then multiply this number annually.

    That should just about extinguish any debate about P5 economic conditions. For any P5 school.

    Not so much for Indys, unfortunately.

    Google: USA Today "Power Five College Football Playoff Revenues".

    [Duck soup!!] :)

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 20, 2014 11:17 a.m.


    Are they facts or estimates? You can't have it both ways. In your reply to DuckOutaWater you start by claiming the numbers on BYU are just estimates and that the real numbers may be higher and then you end claiming they are facts. So which is it?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 19, 2014 2:35 p.m.


    50 mil is an estimate based on previous figures I know from 4 years ago. At that point BYU's athletic budget was estimated at $43 million per year, since that time their ESPN contract has kicked in and other revenue sources have increased so no I do not know that it is exactly $50 mil, I didn't make that claim anyway, it is in that vicinity, in fact it may be more than that. Also it has been reported by BYU and printed right in those paper that BYU averages about a $5 mil profit each year on its athletic department and is one of only a very few schools that does so. Most of that you can get from googling articles the rest I suppose you'll just have to believe me, or not, either way I don't care but it is the facts.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 19, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    Uh....what percentage of NBC's, ABC's, CBS's, and FOX's, total programming are sports? Is it 10%? Nope. But how important are those sports to those networks? Very important, in fact the sports they broadcast are what makes them the most profit as a percentage of cost to produce.

    Now I never claimed BYUtv was started just to broadcast BYU sports, in fact I know it wasn't, but broadcasting BYU sports was always part of the plan from the beginning and the sports broadcast are the ones that get them most viewers. Yes BYU sports are an extremely important part of the BYUtv network. There are multiple sets and studio's in the BYU broadcast facility dedicated to BYU sports, no other thing BYUtv does has that sort of space and infrastructure at that facility. Then there is a multi million dollar HDtruck dedicated guessed it....broadcasting BYU sports.

    I know these facts hurt you to your core, and you do everything in your power to downplay the importance of BYU sports to the University and the Church but sadly you just don't KNOW anything about any of it. I do.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    The big financial point @DuckOuttaWater is BYU has substantially higher booster revenue year in and year out than Utah does. Much the way Notre Dame doesn't do as well as Big Ten institutions, BYU negotiated its own deal with ESPN giving them branding value the MWC could never get them up to that point, which means their athletic budget is in the vicinity of $50-60 million (Coaches Hot-Seat database reports Bronco's annual salary to be in the vicinity of $2 million). The big question is how much time does BYU have as a football independent? I for one doubt it's very sustainable long-term and the pressure both internally and externally is mounting on them to possibly rejoin the MWC by 2016 when that league redoes their media deal. BYU has 5 options as I see it;
    1-Rejoin the MWC
    2-Stay the course until the mid-20's IF they can, but less likely every year.
    3-Drop Football and stay in WCC for other sports
    4-Drop intercollegiate athletics entirely as has been done at the 2 other LDS Church owned institutions of higher learning.
    5-Join the Big 12, the best but least likely of them all.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 19, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    SLC BYU Fan,

    You make some very good points that many BYU fans seem unwilling to consider. Much of my position on this issue is in line with what you say and is based on the same things you point out about the mission of BYU and the Church leader's feelings. Thanks for your comments.

  • DuckOuttaWater SLC , UT
    July 18, 2014 8:52 p.m.

    I grew up in Utah but have spent most of my life in Oregon. Just moved back here and have found these comment boards entertaining. Anyone can look up a public school's athletic's public record by law. Duckhunter (hate that name haha) is right, most schools are not operating in the black and require subsidy to remain viable (luckily PK has ensured my Ducks don't have to worry about that). However Duck, I highly doubt BYUs athletic budget is 50 million when Utah's hasn't reached that amount with new PAC12 money.

    Btw welcome Utes. Not many have really been supportive of Utah & COs inclusion but I'm excited to have Utah in & look forward to seeing what you can do.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    July 18, 2014 5:39 p.m.

    Equality doesn't happen just because its legislated. When the minor sports and the women's sports start drawing paying crowds like football and basketball then and only then will equality be achieved, and good luck with that. By the way the highest paid public employee in Utah (as well as about 44 other states) is the university's football coach. Check Utahrights for confirmation.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2014 4:43 p.m.

    The debate over athletics at BYU is highly tied to the future of the academic direction of the university. Some of the more powerful LDS Church senior leaders who govern the school don't like the heavy post-graduate emphasis many of the so called "Power-5" schools insist on. More than religious affiliation, this policy is what has kept the Pac-12 from seriously considering BYU over the years. Some of these same leaders would rather see a smaller athletic program at BYU if it continues that could perhaps better the relevance of Utah State University. One serious questions BYU fans have to ask themselves is how well the athletic department could do without the football program since if BYU continues athletics into the next decade it "could" come down to that. My sense over the years is there has been more serious resistance in BYU governance than most fans realize to BYU joining a league like the Big 12, and the WCC relationship is based on the possibility of BYU ultimately at least giving up football.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    July 18, 2014 3:24 p.m.


    I guess you will need to give less that 10% so that you can cover the tax increase that will go to the U. The U just won't be able to make enough money to survive and we desperately need your contribution. BTW, solvency is the issue not percieved value. Because the U is a public institution the financial information is readily available (unlike BYU) and easily digested. You are wrong. Anyway, even if the Utes struggle financially it won't be the end just like the 70's and 80's (very tough years) but we will manage.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 18, 2014 3:10 p.m.


    First, BYU sports is just an afterthought for BYUtv. The Church rolled out BYUtv while BYU was still in the MWC and had no opportunity to broadcast any of the sporting events. Then when the new broadcast facility was finished and Elder Eyring dedicated it, he made no mention of sports programming. Lastly, how many hours of programming each week on BYUtv are sports vs other programming? Less than 10% of the total programming on BYUtv is sports related. So the Church has made it clear BYUtv wasn't created for BYU sports. BYU sports helps fill some programming voids, but the channel was created without BYU sports and will go on even after BYU inevitably drops out of major college sports competition. If you have numbers to prove me wrong, lets see them.

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    July 18, 2014 2:46 p.m.


    Where is your proof that the Utes are losing money. Not disagreeing with you (yet), I just need to see the facts.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 18, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    @Mormon Ute

    Wishful thinking on your part and you have nothing to back those assertions up other than your own delusions.

    As I said Tom Holmoe has said BYU is willing and able to do what they have to do to keep up. I'm sure back in 1986 when the athletic budget was 5 Mil you would have tried to claim there was "no way" BYU would spend the 50 mil a year they currently spend but guess what?

    Also BYU will only seek to keep the non profit status of BYUtv if that is the better option financially. I happen to know that they are looking into ways to monetize it as we speak so the non profit status of it is no sacred cow they are trying to preserve.

    But outside of that BYU is already one of the very few schools that actually turns a profit on its athletic program, utah on the otherhand is a huge $ loser. BYU already knows how to get it done on time and on budget so there are no worries there. face it, BYU simply is superior to almost all other schools in these matters.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 18, 2014 12:54 p.m.


    Even BYU can't keep up with the likes of Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Alabama, Oregon, Ohio State, etc. Their revenues top $100 million and there are a bunch of lesser know schools with budgets double BYU's current estimated athletic budget. A few are even in the $200 million range. No way is BYU going to put $100 million into athletics.

    As for BYUtv, the sports programing is a very small part of their overall program and mission. They also have to be very careful how they handle any advertising so they don't lose their non-profit status. At best they might be able to come up with $500,000 a year to help the sports programs at BYU. That just won't help when you are talking hundreds of millions of dollars. Even with the Church subsidizing the programs through facilities and BYUtv, I don't see them coming close to a program like even Louisville who brings in $96 million in revenue annually. Sorry to burst that bubble, but BYU will drop sports before the Church lets them spend that kind of money. They have other priorities, as they should.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 18, 2014 10:59 a.m.


    You obviously don't know what you are talking about so the irony of you telling me I don't is delicious and amusing.

    I never said there are only a handful of these programs that are "operationally solvent" but it is a widely reported fact that only a few of them actually operate in the black. All the rest are subsidized or just losing money. That cannot sustain itself long term although it may be able to continue for a while, several years even.

    But eventually it cannot so unless the schools can find a way to consistently operate out of the red many of them will eventually fail. Those schools that can pay for themselves are going to eventually be the ones left standing, those cannot will not make it.

    This obviously strikes right at your very core because utah is a huge financial LOSER, but that isn't to say that they cannot eventually be a program that can fund itself, they might, they just haven't shown any evidence that they can do it. We'll see if the lawmakers and taxpayers of the state are patient enough for that to ever happen.

  • SportsChemistry ENGLEWOOD, CO
    July 18, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    When I was a student, I worked ridiculously hard to maintain my academic scholarship. While I loved the sports aspect of my college life, I couldn’t help but be a little bit ticked that they lavished the athletes with banquets, clothes and new facilities while we used lab equipment that looked like it was from the 80’s. If head coaches of the big money sports make more than the president of the university, can we not appeal to common sense with this issue and realize that academics should be the focus of a university and not the strength of the athletics program?

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    July 18, 2014 9:57 a.m.


    You are a very funny guy, clueless about college athletics, but very funny.

    Do you really believe that there are only a handful of university athletic departments that are operationally solvent? Seriously? Do you think that the residents of the states where all these 'in the red' sports programs would tolerate blantant irresponsible behavior? Be serious and stop swallowing the drivel from the echo chamber.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 18, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    BYU is the only school in this state that will ever be able to keep up financially with the biggest revenue schools, the question is do they want to or are they willing to? I don't know the answer to that although Tom Holmoe said that BYU is ready and able to do "whatever it takes" to do just that.

    I think that BYUtv is the key, BYU is working on ways to increase revenue through their BYUtv broadcasts and I think they'll be able to do it. It is such a huge advantage over other schools that are dependent completely on a 3rd party network for tv coverage and revenue, and especially those that depend on an affiliation with schools much greater than themselves to gain any exposure or money. Some day I think it will come down to who can actually pay their own way and who cannot without riding the coattails of others.

  • rhappahannock Washington, DC
    July 18, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    Title IX has focused on athletics, without regard to the effects of testosterone. But, what has been totally ignored is the systematic discrimination against men in major universities. Enrollment for females has exceeded males for 30-40 years now for pretty much any major university. This should be a clear violation of Title IX - clearly, men are being discriminated against in large numbers. However, this discrimination is totally ignored. If Title IX is really supposed to be about educational opportunities, why aren't men been selectively subsidized in universities?

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    July 18, 2014 7:35 a.m.

    The solution is simple, we need another Federal law. This law would mandate that for every football/basketball that YOU watched/listened too/attended would require you to do the same for a womens or 'Olympic sports' event. That would even the playing field.

    Yep, Gov't intervention is what we need.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 17, 2014 11:10 p.m.

    If it brings in money keep it, if it doesn't then get rid of it (regardless of the gender of the athletes).

    I am not discriminating against anything except those sports that lose money.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    July 17, 2014 10:33 p.m.

    I wonder if Rock would do an article about how Title IX killed off over 200 college wrestling programs including everyone that existed in Utah (BYU, Utah, SUU, Utah State, Weber State, and Snow College)...