"Utah has never quested for anything BYU has done in the BCS era."Is that why Utah has yet to beat Washington? You should try it sometime.
Try as hard against Washington as you do against BYU and you will win.
Apparently the "mid-major" BYU is far more important than Washington.
I thought Utah had moved on...doesn't look like it. I'd call it
obsessed with big brother.
Blah blah blahBlah blah blahHere's the real
issue...since 2011 when significant changes occurred to both programs, Utah went
8-5 (4-5), 5-7 (3-6), 5-7 (2-7). Not a good trend, and not a good program right
now. BYU is 10-3, 8-5, 8-5, with only one win against a team finishing ranked
(USU), and underachievements and meltdowns against big time programs littering
the way (where's our Stanford victory...nada).It's time
for both programs to put up or shut up because neither one is doing anything of
national relevance right now and both run the risk of sinking into obscurity,
albeit by different means. We can all brag about 20 yrs ago, or 40 yrs ago, but
guess what...it's 2014 and no one cares about Utah's entire TWO dream
seasons that happened 10 and 6 years ago. No one cares about BYUs NC that
occurred 30 years ago or a heisman trophy that followed a mere 6 years later.
These are all great accomplishments, but neither program has done anything
since, and no one besides fans on these boards cares. I hope BOTH programs have
great years...they need them.
UteologyDon't kid yourself.BYU has dominated Utah
in lifetime national accomplishments.LonestarRunner's list,
which you didn't even try to dispute, is proof of that.It's funny how only "recent" accomplishments matter to you in
football, but how quickly your self-serving narrative would change if the topic
were switched to basketball.The truth is, BYU accomplished far more
on a national scale from 1979 to 1985, than Utah has accomplished in their
entire college football history.Regardless of your spin, a
"dusty" Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and Heisman Trophy
is far more meaningful than a non-existent "missed-it-by-that-much"
trophy.4-5, 3-6, and 2-7 are proof enough that 2004 and 2008 are no
longer "relevant" if that's your criteria for comparing
Uteology"Great! How's your BCS Resume look?"Who cares?The bcs is dead and Utah's small role during that
era will soon be nothing more than a footnote in history. Utah will simply be
one of the dozens and dozens of deserving, and undeserving, teams that played in
one of the major bowls between 1999 and 2013, although with the ever-changing
post-season structure, a "major bowl", 10 years from now, may be nothing
more than an also ran post season game for teams that weren't good enough
to qualify for the 8- or 16-team playoff - kind of like the post-season NIT of
today.How's your National Championship and Heisman Trophy
resume look?Those accomplishments will ALWAYS be an indelible part
of major college football history and will never lose their significance.
Uteology"There's is one MAJOR difference. Since 1998, there
is a national title championship featuring #1 vs #2. Do you seriously think that
MAJORITY of those AP voters are not persuaded by that game?"WRONG!In 2003, the AP completely ignored the #1 versus #2 bcs
matchup, and chose USC, which didn't even play in the bcs championship
game, as their National Champion.Since 1979, the AP and Coaches have
agreed on the same National Champion 89% (31 of 35).The only
exceptions were:1990 (Colorado, Georgia Tech)1991 (Miami,
Washington)1997 (Michigan, Nebraska)2003 (USC, LSU)As
you can clearly see, it was the disagreement on power conference national
champions in the 1990's that fueled the creation of the bcs. It had nothing
to do with BYU's national championship, which occurred a decade earlier.
@LonestarRunnerGreat! How's your BCS Resume look?@UteanymousVery convenient for U, since that was the first year Utah
cracked the AP Top 25, and it allows you to conveniently exclude BYU's
National Championship, Heisman Trophy, and TEN AP Top 25 seasons.--------------The reason I brought up 1994 is when one of your own
made a ridiculous claim of superiority for 11+ win teams which were all ranked
below our 1994 10 win team. By all means include them all you want,
but you haven't sniffed a BCS bowl let alone a NC, Heisman, or a top 10
finish since 1996. Utah has. So please do tell why it matters what talent
under Edwards/Chow did? I concede BYU dominated the WAC. I never
claimed they didn't. Nor have I ever claimed Utah was good during that
Uteology"First, the sample size was from 1994 (20
years)."Very convenient for U, since that was the first year
Utah cracked the AP Top 25, and it allows you to conveniently exclude BYU's
National Championship, Heisman Trophy, and TEN AP Top 25 seasons.Of
course, you wouldn't have any trouble making it a 40-year comparison if
Utah had actually accomplished something from 1974 to 1993.
Uteology"Why not look at the ENTIRE sample, the entire
history?"Why not?Lifetime Significant
AccomplishmentsNational ChampionshipsBYU 1Utah noneHeisman TrophiesBYU 1Utah noneAP Top 25
FinishesBYU 17Utah 5Coaches Top 25 FinishesBYU
18Utah 7AP/Coaches Top 10 FinishesBYU 4 (#7/#7 1983,
#1/#1 1984, #18/#10 1994, #5/#5 1996)Utah 3 (#10/#8 1994, #4/#5 2004,
#2/#4 2008)National Individual AwardsBYU 15Utah noneNational Hall of Fame PlayersBYU 6Utah noneBowl
GamesBYU 32Utah 17BYU has won the two most iconic team
and individual awards in major college football - a Crystal Football National
Championship Trophy and a Heisman TrophyUtah hasn't won a
single national award of any kind11+ Win SeasonsBYU 11Utah 210+ Win SeasonsBYU 16Utah 6Utah has
two great recent seasons and a whole bunch of meaningless pre-WAC wins against
teams like YMCA and Colorado College, accomplishments so meaningless that none
of those teams even sniffed a national ranking and only one of them played in a
@RockwellBottom line:1984 BYU #1 AP, #1 Coaches tops any
poll for any year Uteology chooses to cite, and the "modern era, bcs
rules" don't apply to AP poll, which determines its champion in exactly
the same way today as it did in 1984, by a simple majority of the AP poll
voters.----------There's is one MAJOR difference.
Since 1998, there is a national title championship featuring #1 vs #2. Do you
seriously think that MAJORITY of those AP voters are not persuaded by that game?
PAC manYou're wasting your time.Uteology will
respond with, "Well, during the BCS era... blah, blah, blah"Which of course is meaningless, since the poll Utah fans always cite, the AP
poll, has absolutely nothing to do with the BCS, in fact, the AP would't
even allow the BCS to use their poll.Bottom line:1984
BYU #1 AP, #1 Coaches tops any poll for any year Uteology chooses to cite, and
the "modern era, bcs rules" don't apply to AP poll, which
determines its champion in exactly the same way today as it did in 1984, by a
simple majority of the AP poll voters.
@PAC ManLOL ... your backpedaling faster than a BYU DB. Why to come
back and justify your statement:"So in the last 8 years, BYU has
had MORE 11+ win, Top 15 seasons, than the Utes have had in the last 120
years."Keep trowing up irrelevant stats. We all see how revelnt
BYU is on the national scale today:* No undefeated seasons* No
BCS bowls* No BCS Bowl wins* No top 10 finishes (Utah 2, TCU 4)* Losing record against P5 teams* Losing record against top-mid majors
(3-9 vs. Utah, 2-5 vs. TCU, and 1-3 vs. Boise)* No P5 invite
@PAC manBack to your small sample sizes and pretending that major
college football history began in 1999...----------------First, the sample size was from 1994 (20 years). Second you are also
selective in your sample size (40 years). Why not look at the
ENTIRE sample, the entire history?Utah:All-time record:
628–435–31 (59%)Postseason bowl record: 13–4 (77%)Conference titles: 24Consensus All-Americans: 16BYUAll-time record: 484–369–26 (57%)Postseason bowl record:
13–18–1 (42%)Conference titles: 23Consensus
All-Americans: 11Overall Head-to-Head: Utah claims a
57–34–4 lead while BYU says Utah dominates 50–30–4.
UteologyBYU/Utah AP/Coaches Top 25 Finishes1964 Utah
UR/141977 BYU 20/161979 BYU 13/121980 BYU 12/121981 BYU
13/111983 BYU 7/71984 BYU 1/1 National Champions1985 BYU
16/171989 BYU 22/181990 BYU 22/171991 BYU 23/231994 BYU
18/10, Utah 10/81996 BYU 5/52001 BYU 25/242003 Utah 21/212004 Utah 4/52006 BYU 16/152007 BYU 14/152008 BYU 25/21,
Utah 2/42009 BYU 12/12, Utah 18/182010 Utah UR/232011 BYU
UR/25As you can clearly see, BYU was ranked in the Top 15 in 2006,
2007 and 2009, and BYU did win 11+ games in each of those seasons2006 BYU(11-2) 16/152007 BYU(11-2) 14/152009 BYU(11-2) 12/12You may not consider that much of an accomplishment, but how many times
in Utah's entire history has Utah had an 11+ win, Top 15 team?
Uteologytwo words: reading comprehensionUtah has only
won 11+ games in a season TWICE in their entire history, so the statistics I
cited are 100% accurate:Since 2006 - BYU has THREE 11+ win, Top 15
seasons (2006, 2007 and 2009)Since 1894 - Utah has TWO 11+ win, Top
15 seasons (2004 and 2008)-----------Here are a couple
more comparisons for you to chew onNumber of Conference Champions
who played in a bowl:BYU 20 of 23 (87%)Utah 6 of 24 (25%)Number of Conference Champions who have been ranked in the AP Top 25BYU
14 of 23 (61%)Utah 3 of 24 (13%)Lifetime AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 17Utah 5Bronco has almost as many since 2006 (4), as
Utah has in their entire history (5)It's quite obvious which
team has been better overall on a national scale; in fact, it's not even
close when you compare conference champions who were ranked in the AP and played
in a bowl.-------------Back to your small sample sizes
and pretending that major college football history began in 1999...
UteologySince BYU isn't in the PAC 12, who cares what
BYU's record versus PAC 12 teams is just since going Indy; BYU is 6-10(38%)
versus all P5 teams since 2011.Since Utah is in the PAC 12, it is
critical what Utah's record versus PAC 12 is since joining the PAC; Utah is
11-18(38%) versus PAC 12 teams since 2011.It's laughable how
you constantly try to use small sample sizes to skew your "statistics",
when any statistician will tell you that small sample sizes yield wildly
@PAC manSo in the last 8 years, BYU has had MORE 11+ win, Top 15
seasons, than the Utes have had in the last 120 years.How do you
explain that if Utah is supposedly "superior", at least in your crimson
colored view of the world?-------------First, I would
correct your blue colored view of reality: A) BYU has had TWO 11+
win AP top 15 teams in the last 8 yearsB) All those three 11+ teams
were ranked below our 1994 #10 10-2 win teamC) Last 20 years of AP
Rankings: * Utah: 1994 #10 10-2, 2003 #21 10-2, 2004 #4 12-0, 2008
#2 13-0, 2009 #18 10-2* BYU: 1994 #18 10-3, 1996 #5 14-1, 2001 #25
12-2, 2006 #16 11-2, 2007 #14 11-2, 2008 #25 10-3, 2009 #12 11-2 *
AP Top 5 Rankings: Utah 2 BYU 0, Top 10: Utah 3 BYU 1, Top 15: Utah 3 BYU 2D) More importantly, in the BCS era Utah has 2 BCS bowl wins, BYU
zeroSecond, BYU has quested for what Utah has done TWICE. Utah has
never quested for anything BYU has done in the BCS era.
PAC manAnaheim, CAUteologySince 2006 - BYU has
THREE 11+ win, Top 15 seasonsSince 1894 - Utah has TWO 11+ win, Top
15 seasons--------------Wrong, Utah has THREE 1994 AP
#10, 2004 #4, 2008 #2 and BYU has TWO 2007 #14 and 2009 #12.Utah:2009 #18 10-3 2008 #2 13-0 2004 #4 12-0 2003 #21 10-2BYU:2009 #12 11-22008 #25 10-32007 #14 11-22006
#16 11-22001 #25 12-2Utah finished 45-6 (88%) in the MWC and
8-1 (89%) since then against teams like BYU. The SIX of 7 loses were to ranked
teams, the other at AP #26 Notre Dame.
PAC manAnaheim, CAUteologySince 2006 - BYU has
THREE 11+ win, Top 15 seasons-------------Sorry to burst
your bubble. Since 2004, BYU has quested for what Utah has done TWICE. Utah
has never quested for anything BYU has done in the BCS era.@mussingaroundAny idea how you'll do versus P5 teams this
year? I'm thinking 2-8.-------------Utah went 6-5
in season one, 2011. I think we go at least 4-6, with a healthy QB.BYU is 2-5 vs PAC-12 since going Indy, only wins over 3 win teams. I think
Cal wins 4 games this year, so BYU only beats Virgina, in the rain, to go 1-2.
UteologySince 2006 - BYU has THREE 11+ win, Top 15 seasonsSince 1894 - Utah has TWO 11+ win, Top 15 seasonsSo in the last 8
years, BYU has had MORE 11+ win, Top 15 seasons, than the Utes have had in the
last 120 years.How do you explain that if Utah is supposedly
"superior", at least in your crimson colored view of the world?
Real Time RPI NCAA Men's Football - Team Power Rankings (2013-2014)#47 BYU#50 USU#70 Utah
UteologyVersus PAC 12 Teams during the Bronco/Kyle era (which should
be Utah's primary focus)Bronco 9-9(50%)Kyle 13-21(38%)Versus P5 Teams during the PAC/Indy eraBronco 6-10(38%)Kyle
11-18(38%)Any idea how you'll do versus P5 teams this year?
I'm thinking 2-8.
I'm disappointed that Sione Takitaki is not on the list.
Old But Not StupidMoorpark, CAyabutsSpringville, utah"Utah's SOS is closer to 5th than it is to 11th."Uhh, yabuts, I think Rose Bowl Call Yet? was referring to your coming 11th
place finish in the Conference of Champions.-------------BYU 2-5 last year vs P5 teams. Any idea how you'll do this
year? I'm thinking 1-2.
@Rose Bowl call yet?yabutsAn occassional blowout win
proves nothing; 14 of the last 17 head-to-head games (82%) have been decided by
a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime, with Utah winning a
slight 8 of 14 majority of those games------------*
FORTY-TWO percent of Utah's wins have been blowouts over the last 10 years
(30% overall)* ZERO percent of BYU's wins have been blowouts
over the last 18 years.So in 18 years BYU has ZERO, in 10 years Utah
has rolled over BYU 3 times.You can't even compete against our
mediocre teams and your ranked teams needed miracles to get a win over Utah.
What do you think is going to happen when you play a good Utah team over the
next 10 years?
Its great to see article after article of BYU players being recognized
nationally. I really wish BYU and Utah played this year because it would really
silence the ute fans.Utes look poised to capture 4 or 5 wins in
Wittingham's final season. BYU looks poised to capture 10 or 11 on the
backs of their nationally recognized athletes. Keep pulling out the
SOS card ute fans... its the only thing you got going for you... Go shock the
world with another upset win against a TOP notch PAC 12 program who cant find
the motivation to play you. Hard to get excited to play a team that is below
.500 every year.
I am impressed that both BYU and USU had players named to both "watch
lists". Is it likely that Utah has players just as good as BYU and USUs
watch list players? Actually it is very probable that they do. But they also
have unknown entities at both of these positions and so they were not named to
the watch lists. However, I do take exception to the Ute fans that bag on the
players from USU and BYU. Thanks to last year, we have players like Williams,
Taysom Hill, Keeton, and Joe Hill that are recognized as talented performers on
the field. I am sure if some of the Ute players perform well on the field this
year they will be recognized next year. For now, show the class that the U of U
represents, and be glad for these young men, whether they represent your
university or not. And next year we will do it for the Utes players recognized.
Perform on the field and you will get your reward.
Chris B - I like how he boasts about beating ""WAC and
"Mid-Major" teams. lol.
Since 2010 USU VS Utes are 1 for 1. I don't think that makes the Utes own
USU. The only thing the Utes own USU is $ for buying out their game since they
didn't want to play up in Logan this year.
Ute Juniors without a bowlActually, it was Utah's AD who was
afraid to schedule both BYU and Michigan in the same season because he
didn't think U were good enough to handle playing both.Sorry to
burst your crimson bubble, but BYU doesn't need U. The only way
BYU would ever agree to a 2 for 1 with Utah, would be if the 2 are in LES.
There are plenty of other PAC 12 teams who a perfectly willing to schedule home
and home series with BYU.
Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WANice try but the answer is no.
I've tried the same thing in the past.
@Rose Bowl,Only in Provo would fans think a team that is 4-0 against
their former rival is now afraid of them.Truth is, playing other
mid-majors like Fresno is more important as it opens up recruiting in important
areas.We already own you.I hope we start offering a 2
for 1 with 2 in Salt Lake, take it or leave it. Don't like it?
Tough. YOu need games against big boy conferencesWe can go schedule
any mid major whenever we want.
yabutsSpringville, utah"Utah's SOS is closer to 5th
than it is to 11th." Uhh, yabuts, I think Rose Bowl Call Yet?
was referring to your coming 11th place finish in the Conference of Champions.
There is an opportunty to have so much more here than the proverbial "we own
you" "but you still wont go to a bowl game" non-discussion
discussion. I obviously have no influence with Utah fans like Chris and Naval,
but BYU fans, can we try an experiment upon the word, and unilaterally elevate
these boards to a great meeting place for people to discuss valid facts, and
opinions, so we can extract every last bit of pure football ecstacy from the
dawg days of summer through the final gun of the first ever championship
game?I apologize if I appear to have given up the fight, but I begin
to find it increasingly hard to devote so much of my personal time to something
if I allow it to bring out the worst in me.So what about other BYU
running backs? Might Lasike or Hine or others rise this fall, and in so doing
take opportunities away from Williams?
Don't u fans have some 'bottom of the mountain looking up' new
uniforms or 'what words can we use when we flash the Miami block U and sing
the fight song' online polls to be taking instead of commenting on an
article that doesn't involve any utes on the two latest watch lists???
Good to be named to a watch list. BYU has lots of players on watch lists.
That's good, shows they were noticed last year.Now, lets win.
All. Games. For a change.
ekute"It's silly to say that the Utes are afraid of the
Aggies and cougars. Is BYU afraid of Idaho State?"Dumb
comparison. Idaho State has never been a BYU rival.
"Pre-season awards" huh? Who said anything about "awards"? No
awards are being given. These are simply "watch lists" indicating that
these players might just make a splash on the college football scene this
season. A few of you need to take your Ritalin and settle down. Nobody has said
anything about BYU and USU claiming a national championship this year...folks
are only pointing out that there are a lot more Cougars and Aggies projected to
be pretty decent than there are foaming ice font swimmers up on fantasy hill.I had to re-read Chris B's comment. When she referenced 1-7 I
didn't realize she meant against "WAC" competition. I thought she
was prognosticating where her beloved u would be after their first 8 games in
the P5 conference again this year.
yabutsAn occassional blowout win proves nothing; 14 of the last 17
head-to-head games (82%) have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing
minutes or in overtime, with Utah winning a slight 8 of 14 majority of those
games. Hardly proof of Utah OWNING anything.Now, remind us which
bowl you played in last season. Or the season before.Utah's SOS
is 11th in the RPI ratings - yes, they also have those for football.
@ EddieYeah Eddie, keep telling us how much national respect Army,
Western Kentucky, and Temple have. Being named an award watch list is a great
honor for these great players. But it is in no way a statement about the
programs they play for.
I thought the u was "stacked" at all the back positions this year?
Being named to any "Watch" List is not only an honor but it is a true
sign of National Respect. Somehow people on the hill just don't get that
and that is probably why they just don't get the National Respect (i.e.
Doak Walker awards(s), Heisman Trophy award, trophy after trophy after trophy. I
bet if we all go to the u's trophy case we can see some banners from
downtown and a few bumper stickers pealed from abandoned cars after finishing
last again in the pac 11 + u.
Our running backs are real good.Go Utes!
I'm with Y Grad/Y Dad and Che...Really tired of preseason hype. Time to deliver on the field.Both USU and BYU could have great records
if they play with a chip on their shoulder like Che mentions.And Utah
could have another surprising year if they play as well as they did in certain
games last year. If they can play at the same level in those close games and the
ball goes their way this time, they'll have the state's bragging
rights come December. So as much as I hate to say it, they're in the best
position to turn heads.As a Cougar fan...I hope they don't.
Attn; Rose Bowl call yet?"you own NOTHING but your 11th-place
SOS trophy".Has 3 of 12, 0 of 4, and 54-10 slipped your mind?Utah's SOS is closer to 5th than it is to 11th. Have a great home coming, it should be a great game to watch. (:(
It's silly to say that the Utes are afraid of the Aggies and cougars. Is
byu afraid of Idaho State?
CBBowls and overall season performance mean much more than a couple
of upset wins.The Utes are so scared of BYU and USU that they ran
away from both rivals for the coming season.Enjoy your season-ending
pillow fight in the rockies; it's the closest you'll get to a bowl
this season.You own NOTHING but your 11th-place SOS trophy.LOL!
Yes I too am excited to see the Aggies and the Cougars recognized for their
so-called Wac-ish talent being recognized nationally while our so-called big
brother on the hill has no players on the Doak or Davey O'Brian lists?Utah State is a team I can root for and with the Aggie fans and their
team the best of luck in the coming season....except for that one night in
Provo. May these Two teams enjoy the luck of the Irish this coming year.Go Cougars..Go Aggies!!!
So far, 3 Utah players have been named to watch lists. There have been 2 recent
transfers to the Utes program. The USU players were included on the same watch
lists as byu players. Otherwise, they would not have been mentioned in the DN
either. Go Utes.
No spin on the hill. I don't watch Utah State and can't comment on
Hill. Any Ute will tell you that we all know Williams is a great RB, except when
playing the stingy run D of Utah. So really there are no surprises with him. BYU
has recruited well at the RB position for years. I think this year will be
telling to see if a couple Utes make it to that list for next year. Since John
White, the running game at Utah has been subpar with glimpses of greatness. Go
Y Grad/ Y Dad is absolutely right. BYU has become famous for getting a big head
and under-performing in big games; whereas Utah is known for playing with a big
old chip on their shoulder and surprising everyone. I hope BYU
coaches and players realize they are on the outside looking in, and unless they
come out with a chip on their shoulder and play every game like its their last
this pattern will just continue. Its great we're getting these
preseason awards, but the only thing that matters is the W at the end of the
You would think with all the ragging byu and usu fans are doing about Utah,
they'd be a better than 1-7 combined record against big brother the last 8
games.LOL!1-7We OWN both of you
preseason rankings are the most important, they mean way more than what the
SCOREBOARD says.Right byu fans?LOL
I'm starting to notice a trend here... Shouldn't the
PAC-12 Utes have more players on these watch lists than the lowly WAC teams of
Utah?hmm... well at least you still have your SOS trophy and PAC-12
I know it's fun to bag on the Utes, but to my Ute friends (I DO have one or
two), this is exactly where U like to be... disrespected, un-noticed and poised
to surprise a lot of people.If you can play 12 games this year like
you played against BYU and Stanford last year, you will once again have the last
laugh, just like 04 and 08.In the mean-time, expectations are high
for both BYU and Utah State. Time to put up or shut up can't come too
soon. Go Aggies, and RISE AND SHOUT!
This great to see these two young men named to the list. I have to admit, I am
not an Aggies fan, But great to see them getting some national attention. The
cream in the State is rising to the top. Go Cougs!
Congrats to the two best running backs in the state.Little Brother,
I too am waiting for the spin on the hill. It should be a fun day on the
threads.For two days straight BYU and USU have been recognized for
having the two best QB's and the two best running backs. Can't wait
to see which two BYU AND USU players will be named next.
Congratulations to BYU and Utah State players being named to another
"nation's best" watch list.Waiting for more spin from
the hill explaining why our local P5 is so unloved.