I thought in order to be a "dual-threat" QB, one must also be able to
pass. Taysom Hill cannot pass so there for he's a "solo-threat" QB
@2ferCan you direct me to any articles that support that claim about
wilson's "quick release"? I looked at everything I could find for
the elite 11 from his sr year and found nothing to support that. Not saying you
are wrong, I just couldn't find it. I can go off of what I have seen
however and a quick release is not what I have witnessed, not to mention the
large amount of interceptions he has thrown would cast some doubt on the
"accuracy" claim.I did notice A LOT of praise for Tanner
Mangum at the Elite 11 that year. But then he was actually the MVP of the Elite
11 whereas wilson didn't even make the actual final 11.
@ DuckhunterWIlson was noted to have the quickest release in the
Elite 11 camp. His style is unorthodox, just like Phillip Rivers and Brock
Osweiler. As long as it's quick and accurate, (which it is) it
doesn't matter. Wilson just needs to make his reads quicker.
@ Stang0, of course I am biased, I am an Aggie fan! But I try to be objective.
My comment still stands, the FACT is that NFL.com ranked USU ahead of BYU and
Utah. No bias needed to confirm that that statement is correct.
@Rose Bowl call yet?As of today, Tysom is not a NFL caliber player
unless he improves his passing game. He's shown he can run but his passing
efficiency is on par with Adam Shultz. That is probably why most sites have him
ranked as the #20 NFL prospect.As far as his stats:* vs
mid-major talent his QB Rating average is 150. * Overall vs P5
teams he's struggled passing the ball his QB rating is 97. Which would explain why BYU went 6-0 vs mid-majors and 2-5 vs P5 teams.@TroyNo, what Utah did was drop our annual guaranteed win
over a mediocre mid-major team, BYU (8-5 last year), and replace it with a
quality mid-major team, Fresno (11-2 last year). Fresno improves our schedule
by replacing BYU.
@jay lindHave you actually seen wilson throw a football? He has
awful mechanics, a side arm throw, a slow release, and those are as much to
blame for the "tips" as anything the receivers did. he does have decent
straight ahead speed but is not quick and does not move all that well side to
side. I think his recovery and return is a great story, very
heartwarming, but that doesn't make him a better qb than he was and his
deficiencies are very large when it comes to throwing the ball. Perhaps the new
oc will be able to design his system to offset some of those problems but as a
thrower wilson's mechanics are a big problem. Hill on the
otherhand has a better arm and a better throwing motion, he was not accurate
last year but improved whereas wilson digressed. I would certainly take the
unbelievable, and vastly superior, athleticism of Hill and work on his accuracy
over the much slower wilson with the much worse throwing motion. To
each their own I suppose.
KHAccording to Uteology's talent rating scale, BJ couldn't
have been any good because he didn't even make an NFL roster.---------"Please congratulate Taysom on his great game against
the worst Texas team they've had in a long time."It's
laughable how Utah fans have to minimize every big name team BYU beats as
"the worst ... team" ever, yet they pretend that every P5 team Utah
beats is the greatest team in that team's history.Texas(8-5)
finished in a three-way tie for 2nd in the Big 12 and stomped TCU 30-7.Yeah, sure sounds like a terrible team.
@scott,I've only been alive since 1986 but I can't
remember a time Utah ever had as easy of a schedule as byu will play in 2014.
Also, I'm pretty sure Alex Smith put up some incredible numbers. Ask
Alabama if Brian Johnson was a capable QB.
Wow, I guess I hit a nerve there with the over-sensitive byu fans. First of
all, I'm not saying Wilson is better than Hill. I honestly don't
know. It's hard to say because they play completely different schedules.
@RoseBowlCallYet,Please congratulate Taysom on his great
game against the worst Texas team they've had in a long time. How many
yards do you think he'll have this season against Savannah State? @TroyTown,I guess you are entitled to your opinion and I am too.
We will never know if Utah in 2014 would be good enough to beat both Michigan
and byu in the same season. We do know, however, that Utah has been good enough
to beat byu the last 4 years, and 9 of the last 12 years. So it is reasonable to
assume that they'd be good enough to beat byu again in 2014 and who knows
KHIf putting up 3000+ yards passing and 1000+ yards rushing would be
so "easy" against BYU's schedule, why hasn't any Utah QB in
history ever matched that feat against the pathetic schedules Utah has played
for most of the last half century.Unfortunately for U, the Utes have
never had a quarterback who was capable of putting up stellar numbers against
any level of competition.
KH"The fact that Utah dropped BYU from their schedule suggests that it
is less important that our conference games."Nope. The reason
Chris Hill dropped BYU from Utah's schedule is he didn't think Utah
was good enough to play Michigan and BYU in the same season - in other words, he
didn't think Utah could qualify for a bowl if the Utes played both Michigan
and BYU. He was right, of course, but probably wasn't counting on the Utes
not being good enough to beat Utah State or Washington State in 2012 and 2013 in
order to qualify for a bowl.
KH"I don't doubt that he could put up those stats,
considering the competition he's playing against."You mean
against a team like Texas - 259 rushing, 129 passing, 388 total, 3 TDs, in only
his 2nd game back from season-ending knee surgery after starting only three
games as a freshman.When was the last time Travis put up those kinds
of numbers against an elite team like Texas?Taysom's better
games were against BYU's tougher opponents.Texas(8-5) - 388
total yards rushing and passingUtah(5-7) - 359USU(9-5) - 292Ga
Tech(7-6) - 309Houston(8-5) - 545Boise St(8-5) - 408Notre
Dame(9-4) - 269Washington(9-4) - 426Compared to TravisUSU(9-5) - 311OSU(7-6) - 421BYU(8-5) - 280UCLA(10-3) -
285Stanford(11-3) - 269Arizona(8-5) - 32USC(10-4) - 93ASU(10-4) - 165It's obvious why Taysom is on the Heisman and
Davey O'Brien watch lists and why Travis isn't.
@ skywalkerThat's because the debate almost always boils down
to Utah vs. BYU, which is why there are so many comparisons. I'm not sure
if you realize this or not, but Utah and BYU are rivals. And considering how
close the schools and fan bases are, there will always be comparisons made
between the two.
@Lonestarrunner,"This coming season, he could become one of the
very few college quarterbacks ever to pass for 3,000+ yards and rush for 1,000+
yards, an achievement that he barely missed last season while BYU was busy
installing a new offensive scheme."I don't doubt that he
could put up those stats, considering the competition he's playing against.
Can you imagine what kind of stats a team like Oregon, Florida St., UCLA, etc.
would put against byu's schedule? @scenic view,"Once again you prove that Utah fans would rather beat BYU, than go to a
bowl game."I never said that. The fact that Utah dropped byu
from their schedule suggests that it is less important that our conference
games. You were just putting down Travis Wilson, so I backed him up by saying
that he and the Utes beat your team last year, as well as the year before, and
the year before, and the year before. Maybe not the same QB every year, but you
get the point.
twoferre: "Once again you prove that Utah fans would rather beat
BYU, than go to a bowl game."All you have to do is spend a
couple of minutes perusing the comments of Utah fans about BYU to see that Utah
fans are obsessed with beating BYU; they mention Utah's record versus BYU
on practically every page.The next sentence in scenic view's
comments simply points out how strange it is, in light of their BYU obsession,
that Utah ran away from the rivalry for the next two years.U
don't even play BYU this season, yet the vast majority of Utah fan comments
are directed at BYU.
I find it funny that tinplater is throwing around the word biased a lot.
Considering he's just as bad as the rest of us it's pretty funny.
@ scenic view"Once again you prove that Utah fans would rather
beat BYU, than go to a bowl game."Nobody said that. In fact the
next sentence in your post proves the opposite.
Jay Linds"He threw a lot of picks last year but most were tipped
and not his fault..."Wilson has by far the worst mechanics of
any of the three. He throws sidearm, which negates his 6'7" height, and
tipped passes are an indication that his passes are often off-target.
Keeton is a stud. No doubt about that. He is a legit Heisman trophy candidate in
my opinion.I'd take Wilson over Hill any day though. Hill is a
great runner but his passing is quite suspect. His arm strength is fine but his
accuracy and reads are terrible. Wilson, although not as good of a runner as
Hill, is still quite a good runner. I've never seen him get caught from
behind and is good at tucking the ball and running when the pass isn't
there. He threw a lot of picks last year but most were tipped and not his fault
and he always bounced back after a pick and showed great toughness and
leadership. Overall he is quite accurate and makes good reads. When he
struggled, it was mainly due to his cut up hand. It will be
interesting to see what happens this year but if Wilson can stay healthy, I
think he has all the talent and could develop into an NFL QB.
KHI'll take the bowl game.Once again you prove that
Utah fans would rather beat BYU, than go to a bowl game.Which makes
it even stranger that the Utes suspended the rivalry until 2016.
KH"And yet Travis Wilson and the Utes beat both Utah St. and BYU
last year."Yes, U barely pulled out a couple of wins, but that
was then, this is now.Taysom was a sophomore starting only his 6th
game when BYU played Utah last season.This coming season, he could
become one of the very few college quarterbacks ever to pass for 3,000+ yards
and rush for 1,000+ yards, an achievement that he barely missed last season
while BYU was busy installing a new offensive scheme.Meanwhile,
Travis will be fighting to keep his starting job versus a transfer who has only
completed 4 passes during his entire college career.As far as
"wins" go, U ran away from the rivalry so you could play Fresno State.
"Taysom Hill and Chuckie Keeton are on the watch list for the Davey
O'Brien Award (nation's best QB)Taysom is one of the Top
14 Heisman candidates according to NFL.comTravis Wilson is fighting
for his job versus a transfer who has only completed 4 of 13 passes in his
college career." - - - - - - - - - - - And yet
Travis Wilson and the Utes beat both Utah St. and byu last year. You can take
your pre-season award nominations. I'll take the WIN.
UteologySpin the "statistics" however helps you sleep at
night, but this is reality:QB Situations for 2014 according to
NFL.com (see article)USU in the Top 10, #7BYU in the Top 25,
#23Utah barely in the upper half, #60Taysom Hill and Chuckie
Keeton are on the watch list for the Davey O'Brien Award (nation's
best QB)Taysom is one of the Top 14 Heisman candidates according to
NFL.comTravis Wilson is fighting for his job versus a transfer who
has only completed 4 of 13 passes in his college career.
Uteology"Let's just get an idea by comparing QB Ratings vs
P5 teams from last season..."It's hysterical how you lump
all P5 and non-P5 teams into two separate categories as if all P5s and all
non-P5s are identical, which implies that prior to 2011, Utah was no better than
UTEP or UNLV or Florida International, and since 2012 Utah has been just as good
as Alabama.Can you give any evidence whatsoever to support either
conclusion?If not, stop pretending that every P5 is superior to
every non-P5; it makes comparisons look silly.
Most of the comments posted here are meaningless, biased assertions with
manipulation of numbers. What is a FACT is that NFL.com ranked USU #7, BYU#23,
and Utah #60. You can't spin that. The season will play out and we will
see how accurate the evaluations were. But consider those rankings were not made
by biased sports fans who can only see Blue or Red.
@BigCougarOnce again, you conveniently ignore the elephant in the
room that you're comparing numbers (assuming numbers tell the whole story)
from only the most difficult portion the 2013 schedule to the entirety of the
2012 schedule, which was played primarily against opponents like Texas State,
NMSU, UTSA, and Idaho. Of course the numbers are not going to show wild
improvement in that scenario no matter what quarterback you're talking
about, because you're essentially cherry-picking your data. Had Chuckie
completed the season, which got significantly easier after the BYU game, the
performance increase in terms of numbers would have been notable, as anyone who
has actually watched him play more than once or twice and knows football could
have told you, based on the clearly visible improvements that I already
@Marked it DownQuite obviously, NFL.com doesn't agree with CBS
Sports assessment, but, as usual, you always pick the worst case scenario/rating
you can find for BYU, and then cite that as gospel.----------------NFL rates Tysom a high draft prospect, over
Keeton? Do tell, cite the source.I was replying to the
statement:"Hill is the one QB in the article with real upside.
He has a better arm than the others and absolutely superior speed. He has NFL
caliber tools and will only get better."Currently, Tysom is
ranked around the #20 QB prospect for 2016 on most sites, while Keeton is around
#5 prospect in 2015.As far as Hesiman, so what? Max Hall was on the
Heisman watch list in 2009. How did his NFL caliber tools help him in the CFL?
@BigCougar"Since GA left there's been a noticeable
difference in the toughness and mindset of the defense. It's not the same
level and is a big drop-off under Wells. That's reflected in the record and
will continue."You know, I somewhat agree with a couple of your
earlier comments about Chuckie being a system QB, but comments like this one are
highly disingenuous if not outright false. The Ags' 2013
defense ranked statistically higher than the 2012 defense did in several
categories, including scoring defense and total defense. The overall schedule in
2013 also had a slate of better teams than in 2012, so the record drop makes
sense, especially with significant injury problems.Utah State's
recruiting has also improved a bit sine GA left. Gary left the blueprint, Matt
has continued it and I don't see much reason why it would change if we keep
having success with it. If you're going to take jabs at my Ags,
at least get the facts right. The fact that we do what we do with 1/5 of the
resources of Utah or BYU speaks volumes of how much our program has grown.
Tomahawk RedQB Situations for 2014USU in the Top 10,
#7BYU in the Top 25, #23Utah barely in the upper half, #60Taysom Hill and Chuckie Keeton are on the watch list for the Davey
O'Brien Award (nation's best QB)Taysom is one of the Top
14 Heisman candidates according to NFL.comTravis Wilson is fighting
for his job versus a transfer who has only completed 4 of 13 passes in his
college career.Sugar coat it all you want; make up all of the whiny
excuses you want.Bottom line: the only people who think Travis even
belongs in the same discussion as Hill and Keeton are crimson glasses wearers.
@Aggie238"and he was on track to demonstrate similar improvement from
his sophomore to junior year before he was injured....If you don't think
Keeton has upside, you probably haven't watched him play, and you probably
don't know much about football."----------------------Chuckie's stats sophomore vs junior seasons:
Soph Jrgames 13 6PER 154.7
157.1Passing yds 3373 1388 TDs 27
18INTs 9 2Comp% 67.6 69.4rushes 129 55yds 619 241ypc 4.8 4.4TDs 8 2He only played half a season his junior year due to injury. If you average it
out, he made very slight improvement in his PER and comp%, was on pace for
significantly fewer passing yards, rushing yards, ypc and rushing TDs but on
pace to have more passing TD's and fewer INTs. All things
considered he declined in some areas, incrementally improved in a couple of
others and improved in a couple more. That's really not much of an
improvement over his sophomore year. I think we've seen the
best he has already. Teams now know him, BYU certainly does. He's 0-3 vs
BYU and hasn't looked good in those losses.
Big Cougar-Really looking forward to coming to LaVell Edwards stadium and
playing head to head. Wins on the field is where is counts, I am not sure Cougar
fans believe that. It will be a good challenge for the Ags. Cancel the 911 call,
I don't believe I will need it. Best of luck until Oct. 3rd. You should be
3-1 by then, and surprisingly I hope Taysom does turn out to be as good as
advertised. Unless you have another Virginia slip up you should end up 10-2 at
I am looking forward to watching TW prove his worth this year. Uncertainty is
the only reason that Utah is that low, but it is a fair ranking - for now.
Besides that, I'm really looking forward to watching Chucky play. He is
heads and shoulders above Hill.Can't wait!!Go
I think Travis Wilson will be the next Russell Wilson. He is going to be a hall
of fame QB. He is NFL ready now. Chuckie and Hill would have a hard time
starting for a flag football team on the hill in PAC12 country. I think the
mighty Utes are poised for another Sugar Bowl win like last year.
"Btw, did the Giraffe or any other ute QB get invited to the Manning Camp?
Naaaahhhhh. It's reserved for big-time talent like Johnny Football or
Taysom Hill."Touche, Big Cougar. Please don't stomp on the
crimson crew when they are down!
Aggie 253"Chuckie is the total package and the all-around best QB in
the state, possibly in the west."Hey, wait just a minute. I do
agree that Chuckie is AWESOME, by what about my guy Hundley (UCLA) and Mariotta
(Oregon)?It will be interesting to see how the Utah (in-state) QBs
stack up vs. the West Coast giants.
@poymanGuaranteed, if Keeton and Hill played the ute's schedule
they would both have better numbers than the ute's qbs.-------------Guarantee? Let's just get an idea by comparing
QB Ratings vs P5 teams from last season:Tysom Hill: Texas 68 (250
yards rushing), Utah 79, @Wisconsin 100, @Notre Dame 101, Washington 99. Keeton: @Utah 159, @USC 109
@ciokenooYep, well over 100 games played. Utah/Utah State is family
(no big/little just older/younger), I would love to see the Aggies on the
schedule every year. Even after the D-4 split that will surely happen.
(-cont)@Cougorute..nahhhRegarding the drop off since GA
left and Wells took over, it's noticeable and immediate. GA left with the
program nationally ranked and having won 11 games. On the field they were tough
defensively and had a top 10 defense.Since GA left there's been
a noticeable difference in the toughness and mindset of the defense. It's
not the same level and is a big drop-off under Wells. That's reflected in
the record and will continue.BYU has been able to handle Chuckie
with no problems in all 3 games. He is 0-3 in games he's started vs BYU, is
just barely over 50% completion, has a PER just over 100 and only gained around
20 yds on the ground per game vs BYU. Basically BYU has owned him. This
year's defense will be even better than last year's for BYU.It's not arrogance. Just confidence.
@Cougorute nahhh"USU and BYU's schedules are very comparable this
year. Well with the exception we don't have a Savannah State or Middle
Tennessee on our schedule....Gary was a great coach no doubt, but Matt Wells has
done a fine job and has held us to the same level of play. Another great thing
is we get to go head to head this year, that should be a real telling
game."-----------------Comparable schedules w/the
exception of Savannah St or MTSU? Lol! You just shot your credibility in the
foot but don't worry, I called 911 for you.BYU plays 4 teams
this year who finished last year rated in the top 50 (Sagarin). Utah St only has
2 (BYU and Boise St). As for the rest of your schedule, you have Idaho St, AFA,
Hawaii, Wyoming, New Mexico etc who all finished last season ranked 127or
worse, all well below MTSU.After BYU and BSU, the next best team is
Tenn who finished last year with a losing record and ranked 60th (Sagarin). They
haven't been good in a while.(-cont)
Big Cougar,Your assessment of Keeton's year-over-year
improvement is inaccurate, and ignores several salient facts. His improvement
from his freshman to sophomore years was very pronounced, and he was on track to
demonstrate similar improvement from his sophomore to junior year before he was
injured. His performance and numbers in the games he played showed plenty of
improvement in several areas including his poise, pocket presence, accuracy,
passing efficiency, arm strength, and command of the offense. This all in spite
of a significantly more difficult slate of opponents. These teams included
Utah, USC, and BYU, all of which had very strong defenses. When faced with
weaker opponents more similar to the bulk of the 2012 WAC schedule, his numbers
sometimes looked more like something you'd see on a video game and showed
significant improvement over his performance against similar opponents the
previous year. Look for more to come this year. If you don't think Keeton
has upside, you probably haven't watched him play, and you probably
don't know much about football.
"Travis struggled against BYU"273 yds, 2 tdsI
hope he keeps struggling like that. lol.
Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahYou're making a big
assumption, considering Taysom put up monster numbers versus Texas, and Travis
struggled against BYU and Utah St.--------Cherry picking
your argument again. Let me put it in proper perspective.First of
all, Travis didn't struggle in the least versus BYU or Utah State.USU- 17/28 302 yds 2 TD 0 INT 174.9 ratingBYU- 24/35 273 yds 2 TD 0 INT
152.9 ratingSecond, Wilson had three costly picks versus Oregon
State, but aside from that he had an outstanding game: 19/33 279 yds FIVE TDs.
He also had a good game versus the #5-ranked team in the nation: 23/34 234 yds 2
TD 1 INT.Although Hill performed well running versus Texas, he was
dreadful through the air: 9 for 26 (34%) 129 yds 0 TD 1 INT 68.6 rating (his
lowest rated game of the year).Also, Hill performed well below par
against BYU's worst opponent of the year. 11 for 19 (58%) 153 yds 2 TD
THREE INTs 128.7 rating versus IDAHO STATE.So, not all is as it
seems with your remarks.
RockwellBaltimore, MD"Taysom racked up 99 yards rushing
versus Utah..."Weak dude. He couldn't even crack the
100-yard rushing mark against a doormat Pac 12 team? Or are you now holding up
Utah as a decent P5 opponent because it reflects well on BYU? Classic hypocrisy
from the Provo crowd."Travis only rushed for 100+ yards in one
game last season (Oregon State) only managed 93 yards rushing versus Weber
State, only had 9 yards rushing versus Utah State, and only had 7 yards rushing
versus BYU."Travis Wilson isn't a running QB. He's a
pocket passer who sometimes runs the ball when the O-line breaks down. Hill is a
running QB. There is no comparison."It's funny how Utah
fans are always full of whiny excuses."I was thinking the same
thing about you people, who effectively wrote the book on crybaby fandom.
Snack PACI thought Travis had a very good game against Utah St and
he played decent against byu. Wilson vs Utah St was 17-28 with 302
yards, 2 TDS, 0 INT. That is a very good game. He got the win in both games and
that is really all that matters. Hill did have a very good running
game against Texas and led the team to a win. But where was he when they played
Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Washington, and Utah (all comparable to PAC 12 teams that
Utah played last season)? I'm just saying that Hill padded his stats for
the season on the weaklings.
@CougarorUte...NahI agree with your last sentence. However let me
pose this question to you. What does Olsen have that Keeton does not? Answer:
The ability to stay on the field. Aggie253, how can Keeton be the best when
he's only played 3-4 games in each of his seasons? It's impossible
for him to be the best.
BigCougarBountiful, UTTaysom just completed his first year as
a starter. He's just starting to scratch the surface. You
haven't seen anything yet.----------Deja vu. Sounds
like exact same thing we all heard in July 2011... how Heaps hasn't even
scratched the surface yet... how he lit up UTEP in the NM Bowl... and watch out
everybody!Then... thud.Same thing could happen with
KH"Would Travis Wilson's stats be better if he played
BYU's schedule? Would Taysom Hill's stats be worse if he
played against Utah's schedule?"Possibly, but you're
making a big assumption, considering Taysom put up monster numbers versus Texas,
and Travis struggled against BYU and Utah St.
BigCougar - Although you continue to bang the Chuckie is a finished project and
Taysom is just scratching the surface drum, the great thing is that we have a
season to evaluate them with. USU and BYU's schedules are very comparable
this year. Well with the exception we don't have a Savannah State or Middle
Tennessee on our schedule. It will be interesting to see how Chuckie and Taysom
compare at years end. I think you will find that Chuckie still has room for
improvement and will be better than expected. Gary was a great coach no doubt,
but Matt Wells has done a fine job and has held us to the same level of play.
Another great thing is we get to go head to head this year, that should be a
real telling game. I would suggest that you shouldn't let your arrogance
get in the way of your perspective.
It probably helped USU in the ranking when the team goes to a bowl game and
wins. How things have changed.
KH,Don't forget that 2013 was Taysom's first year as a
starter (started 1 game in 2012), with a brand new offensive system, under all
new offensive coaches. We can't base who is the better QB just on SOS,
because none of the QB's mentioned has any say in that. I think Wilson and
Hill are pretty even as far as on-field performance at this point. Travis Wilson
has struggled with Int's(16TD's 16Int's), but also completes more
passes. While Taysom clearly had issues with accuracy (53% completion), but
threw more TD's and less INT's (19TD's 14INT's).The best comparison would be between common opponents, and between Utah and
BYU there is only 1 common opponent from 2013, USU. Travis Wilson -
17-28 302yds 60.7%-completion 2-TD's 0-INT 174.8 Rating Taysom Hill
- 17-31 288yds 54.6%-completion 3-TD's 1-INT 155.7 Rating
SoonerUteYour comments prove that you don't have a clue about
the design of BYU's multi-option offense.Most of the 259 yards
Taysom racked up versus Texas came via designed option runs.BYU fans
hope to see Taysom improve his passing accuracy while still keeping opposing
defenses off balance with timely runs.If the defense has to keep a
spy on Taysom to limit his running, that leaves one less LB or DB to cover
@soonerute"Last year, he ran the ball because his offensive line
didn't hold. If Taysom gets spooked in the pocket and has to run this year,
that means the offensive line isn't "much improved"."--------------Last year he ran the ball because that was an area
of superiority. He led the nation in the number of runs over 20 yds last year.
The guy has elite level athleticism. Taysom runs because he loves it and loves
the contact. BYU's offensive line supported 2 (that's TWO) 1000 yd
rushers, how many 1000 yd rushers did the ute OL produce?The GFGH is
a read option offense and one of those options is always for the QB to run.
It's expected he will run less this season because he has a much more
talented group of WR's to throw to, has a better grasp on the offense and
has been working on his passing during the off-season under the guidance of NFL
minds (uber-elite Manning Camp). Btw, did the Giraffe or any other
ute QB get invited to the Manning Camp? Naaaahhhhh. It's reserved for
big-time talent like Johnny Football or Taysom Hill.
@RockwellVirgina is a pretty weak opponent, but all teams play a few
of those. Do you ever actually comment on the subject; or merely go to the
thread purely to pick a fight/argument? The latter appears accurate.
Kudos to Utah State. I am a life long Cougar fan but I also am very glad to see
the Aggies building a strong football program.Aggie fans are very dedicated and
loyal fans and deserve to have a solid team on the field. Ute fans have a
difficult time admitting that maybe the Aggies have a better program right now
then they do. Utes keep crowing about being in the PAC-12 but apparently they
don't belong there either because 4-5, 3-6 and 2-7 records bear that out.
Sure they have beaten my beloved Cougars the last four times straight. They
deserve great credit for that. Has much as love my Cougars I will admit that
they probably aren't ready for the PAC-12 yet however I believe that day
will come in the next few seasons. We have great college football here in the
State of Utah but Utes and Cougars have to admit has bitter as it is that maybe
neither team is ready for the PAC-12 yet. I do hope that every college team in
this wonderful state has a great season.
Rockwell,I noticed that you completely dodged my questions. Let me
ask you again, and this time try to answer it honestly. Would
Travis Wilson's stats be better if he played byu's schedule? Would Taysom Hill's stats be worse if he played against Utah's
schedule? I know you byu fans don't like the SOS argument, but
it is a valid argument especially when byu fans claim superiority to Utah even
though they haven't beaten Utah in 4 years. For the record, I
expect Taysom Hill to have an absolutely Monster game against Savannah State
this year. But it won't mean much because it is against Savannah State.
But he'll put up some really impressive numbers that game and all of you
byu fans will go crazy.
@Aggie253"All indications are that he will put up some eye
popping numbers this year"------------------Chuckie
is certainly the more polished passer of all 3 but he pretty much peaked his
sophomore year. Improvements he made in his junior year were marginal. He was on
track to throw and run for significantly fewer yards his jr yr before he got
hurt, his PER only improved 3 pts but he was on par to improve in TD passes and
fewer INT's (that's good). Also, the talent surrounding Chuckie is in
decline now that GA is gone so he's not able to hide behind it like he did
as a soph.I predict he has a nice senior year but it won't be
much better than his soph year and in fact could continue to decline like his jr
yr did. Much of his success is related to his being a "system QB" and
his extensive use of bubble screens, pop passes and other quick-rhythm throws
that are a staple of the Aggie offense.There's no more Robert
Turbin, Michael Smith, Kerwynn Williams or Gary Andersen to take the pressure
off of him.
"I would think that the last thing Utah fans would want to see is Travis
running the ball."I would think the last thing BYU fans want to
see is Taysom running the ball.Last year, he ran the ball because
his offensive line didn't hold. If Taysom gets spooked in the pocket and
has to run this year, that means the offensive line isn't "much
@uteology"Come again? According to CBS Sports:2015 Top NFL
Draft Prospects: Quarterback (updated 7/13/2014):#5 Chuckie
Keeton2016 Top NFL Draft Prospects: Quarterback (updated
7/13/2014):#20 Tysom Hill#30 Adam Shultz"------------------You'll see that change dramatically this
year. Keeton won't drop much but he will drop some because Utah St
isn't as good as they were his sophomore year. The major
difference will be how far TH climbs now that he's had a full year as a
starter, the GFGH offense is in yr 2 and has worked out a lot of kinks, improved
the OL and WR group, etc.Also, obviously, I think you know
you'll see Schulz drop quite a bit from that ranking. Keeton is bumping up
against his ceiling now but for TH, the sky is the limit because of his elite
NFL level athleticism. There's a reason that an NFL coach like
Jim Harbaugh recruited Taysom Hill to Stanford while Keeton was being recruited
by only WAC schools. Keeton is a nice over-achiever and has surprised but as a 2
star athlete in HS was pretty much pegged from the beginning.
KH"Taysom also plays teams like Virginia,..."LOL
at the always predictable "weak opponent" spin of the hill crowd.Taysom racked up 259 yards rushing versus Texas, 99 yards rushing versus
Utah, 128 yards rushing versus Houston, and 101 yards rushing versus Notre
Dame.Travis only rushed for 100+ yards in one game last season
(Oregon State) only managed 93 yards rushing versus Weber State, only had 9
yards rushing versus Utah State, and only had 7 yards rushing versus BYU.It's funny how Utah fans are always full of whiny excuses.Maybe U should go back to the Rocky Mountain Conference where U used to
Keeton is the better passer right now but he's also pretty much reached his
max potential. Any improvements now are going to be incremental. His PER was 154
his soph year and 157 his junior (in half a season) but he was on pace to have
fewer yards passing and rushing in his junior yr. Keeton started as
a frosh and then took over as full time starter his soph yr. He ran an
established offense full of NFL caliber RB's like Robert Turbin, Michael
Smith, etc behind an established OL with several NFL draft picks in that group.
His best year was his soph yr when USU went 11-2 and finished #16 in tha nation.
He's not benefiting from that now that Gary Andersen is gone. As a result
last season we saw his production taper. Taysom just completed his
first year as a starter. He's just starting to scratch the surface. You haven't seen anything yet.There's a reason TH
was recruited by Stanford and many other Pac10 programs while Keeton was offered
by only WAC schools like AFA, Rice, Memphis, Nevada, etc.Experts
like Jim Harbaugh saw the difference even in HS.
@sambone"Your bias is showing. Keeton's upside is plenty big.
From his sophomore year to his junior year, his efficiency and passing ratings
all went up."---------------------Keeton is the better
passer right now, there's no doubt about that, but with him you know what
you have and he's pretty much maxed his potential and there's nothing
next level elite about him. His surface has been pretty well scratched.With Taysom, when I refer to upside, he hasn't even scratched his surface
yet and that's why experts are so high on him. "Potential" is
always a question mark and not every player with potential realizes it so
it's not a given that Taysom will realize his. However, last season was his
first season as a starter, he was running an entirely brand new offensive
system, behind a woefully inadequate piece-meal OL, with a very pedestrian
receiver group (Hoff excepted), in his first full season as a starting QB. With all of that being considered he threw for just a shade under 3000
yds, 19 TD's and ran for 1344 yds and 10 TDs and iirc led the nation in the
number of runs 20+ yds.
I agree with CougOrUte..Naah. A lot of people seem to be forgetting that this
is not simply an assessment of the starting QB, but an assessment of the entire
QB situation at each respective school. USU is the only school in the state
with known commodities at both the starting and backup roles, and both of those
players are battle tested and excellent quarterbacks. Additionally, while it
didn't really factor into this analysis, Utah State is stocked at the QB
position for years to come between Garretson and Oregon transfer Damion Hobbs.
However, if people want to turn this discussion into a "my starting QB is
better than your starting QB" argument, that's fine with us Aggies.
Chuckie wins hands down. Hill is a great QB in some respects, but average in
others. Wilson has yet to really prove himself, though he does have potential.
Chuckie is the total package and the all-around best QB in the state, possibly
in the west. All indications are that he will put up some eye popping numbers
this year. Coming off an injury I'm sure he's got a chip on his
I think the article is spot on. USU is in a great situation, if Chuckie gets
injured, in steps a proven quarterback who led them to a Bowl win over a very
good Northern Illinois team. Taysom and Travis are very talented quarterbacks or
they would not be playing where they are, but no one knows what is behind them,
so their quarterback situation is an unknown....thus the lower ranking. Just as
a reminder to Chris B and Stang08, what is the one thing that neither of the
BYU, Utah, or SUU quarterbacks have, that both the USU quarterbacks do
have......a bowl win. However, I believe Ammon Olsen is going to help that
@sportsfanThat may be, but TW was playing with a hurt throwing hand.
He admitted after the season that he couldn't even grip the ball. TW has a
Rating of 130 compared to 118 for TH. Take out his injured games and he is
throwing an awesome 63%, or 10% higher than TH. His rating would also be quite a
bit higher. @KH is spot on. Look at TH's #s in the big boy games. Utah:
37%; Wisconsin: 46%; Virginia (only because they are P5) 32%; Texas: 35%. His
"best" games were ND where he completed 58% but was 1-1 Td/Int but only
threw 168 yards and Washington where he completed 52% and was 0-1 Td/Int. Same
trend with his rushing. So yeah, definitely Heisman worthy and 40 spots above
the Utes QB situation...
As a season holder and Alumni of Utah for 40 years I'll say without
question Keeton is the man. He's an incredible talent with the ability to
change the game. He would start on almost any team in the country. He's
that good and a great leader.
"Taysom and Travis are less than 5% apart in career pass completion
percentage, but Taysom's yards per carry are nearly double Travis's,
and given Travis's medical history, I would think that the last thing Utah
fans would want to see is Travis running the ball."Taysom also
plays teams like Virginia, Middle Tennessee St., Idaho St., Nevada, and Savannah
St. Meanwhile, Travis is playing against UCLA, USC, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona
St, etc. Now ask yourself honestly, would Travis Wilson's
stats be better if he played byu's schedule? Would Taysom Hill's
stats be worse if he played against Utah's schedule? The answer to both
questions is "Yes".
Jefe-UteTaysom and Travis are less than 5% apart in career pass
completion percentage, but Taysom's yards per carry are nearly double
Travis's, and given Travis's medical history, I would think that the
last thing Utah fans would want to see is Travis running the ball.
Uteology"According to CBS Sports:... blah, blah, blah"It's funny how in your frantic attempt to minimize Taysom, you
chose to completely ignore this little item:"Mike Huguenin of
NFL.com included the BYU signal caller [Taysom Hill] among 14 top candidates for
this year's Heisman Trophy."Top 14 candidate for Heisman in
2014, yet, supposedly only the #20 QB prospect in 2016?Quite
obviously, NFL.com doesn't agree with CBS Sports assessment, but, as usual,
you always pick the worst case scenario/rating you can find for BYU, and then
cite that as gospel.
@BigCougarI didn't mean it in the sense that they are equally
adept at running. I'm just saying look at the oregon state game. TW was a
beast running the ball. He also had nice runs in other games last year. So to
say that TH is 40 spots better than TW is just absurd. TH has done nothing to
garner all the attention except to act like a RB. I watched plenty of BYU games
and he looked awful. I'm not saying the Utes QB situation is better as of
right now, I'm just saying BYU gets way more attention every year then they
I love Hill's upside, I think that it is better than any QB in the state
including Keeton... But if I was to make the choice for my team today I too
would have to go with Keeton as the best in the state right now.@chrisbI find it humorous and entertaining that you so quickly
assign BYU to WAC status... The last time that BYU was in the WAC the utes were
also in that conference and as I recall BYU fared much better in the league than
Utah did... In fact Utah State and Boise State have boxed the utes ears for the
past few years (Keeton is 1-1 and shouldn't have lost the one he lost)...
As for Boise State, I don'te have ever beaten them since they have been an
FBS school...Guaranteed, if Keeton and Hill played the ute's
schedule they would both have better numbers than the ute's qbs.
Pretty hard to argue with. Hopefully next year Wilson/Thompson will top this
I have to agree that this article is a good read and close to spot on. The
ute's just are no longer relevant in most football discussions. Sports
article after article this year all seem to point to another subpar year for the
little brother on the hill. And the best part is we can see the top
two QB's go head to head this year.
I never said that tinplater. SUU had the best QB in the state. Ammon is great
but I never said he was "the best". Sambonethegreat, your bias is
Correction: Travis showed a lot of promise...
I am not a BYU fan but I would put Taysom Hill #1 on this list even though
potential is still somewhat the operative word to me with him. Nevertheless,
with his talent and BYU's schedule, I am betting that Hill with get
confidence and soar as the season goes along. I wouldn't be surprised if
Keaton had a big year as well. I am optimistic about Utah's QB situation
but who to start always makes me reluctant with Whittingham. I like Wilson but
that ship has sailed with me. Sure IF he can stay healthy bla bla blah. Either
way I can hope big.
Chuckie will live up to his billing and then some.Travis should a lot of
promise before he hurt his hand and again in spring practice.With that
schedule and prearranged bowl, no matter what taysom does, it proves nothing.
So good to see Utah State ranked ahead of our bigger in-state brothers. So
psyched for October 3rd match-up in Provo. Oh and come on Utes, don't buy
out of our game anymore :(
@BigCougar"Keeton is a nice QB but his upside isn't very
high. He has a mediocre arm and above average speed. Wilson doesn't even
have that and when he runs he looks like a giraffe."Your bias is
showing. Keeton's upside is plenty big. From his sophomore year to his
junior year, his efficiency and passing ratings all went up. He only threw two
picks, and if he didn't get injured in game 6 and played out the whole
season, he could have/would have easily thrown 3,000+ yards and rushed for 700+
yards.If he stays healthy and refines his game any more than he
already has, he'll be tough for any team to stop.As for Wilson,
the kids has plenty of talent. He's fairly accurate and his rushing ability
is adequate. If he didn't injure his hand against Stanford, I bet his
confidence wouldn't have gotten so rattled over the next few games. Also,
fewer picks.Besides, he beat BYU without much issue.
@BigCougarKeeton is a nice QB but his upside isn't very high.
He has a mediocre arm and above average speed. Wilson doesn't even have
that and when he runs he looks like a giraffe.Hill is the one QB in
the article with real upside. He has a better arm than the others and absolutely
superior speed.--------------Come again? According to
CBS Sports:2015 Top NFL Draft Prospects: Quarterback (updated
7/13/2014):#5 Chuckie Keeton2016 Top NFL Draft
Prospects: Quarterback (updated 7/13/2014):#20 Tysom Hill#30
@Jefe-ute"Also, TW is extremely more accurate than TH and can run as
well"-------------------------Wilson can run as well
as Hill?!? That's like trying to say a Giraffe can run as well as a
Cheetah. That's almost as absurd as the ute fans making pre-season Rose
Bowl victory predictions every year.
Keeton is a nice QB but his upside isn't very high. He has a mediocre arm
and above average speed. Wilson doesn't even have that and when he runs he
looks like a giraffe.Hill is the one QB in the article with real
upside. He has a better arm than the others and absolutely superior speed. He
has NFL caliber tools and will only get better. Also, because of our ESPN
contract you and the rest of the nation will get to see him play somewhere in
the neighborhood of 10-12 games each of the next 2 seasons and then on numerous
ESPN Sportscenter highlights as well.
It is a huge comfort having two proven qbs available for USU. Love having
Keeton back for his senior year. Chuckie is an amazing player and a high
I can't say that I could evaluate the QB situation at all 120+ teams but
looking at the three in the statue of Utah I would rank Chuckie as my first
choice, Hill second, and Wilson third going into the season. Hard to argue with
the evaluation.Now let's see if Wilson can stay healthy and
make the case to change the pre-season rankings around.
54-10Seems like someone has taken a course in revisionist
history.Obviously it still hurts.Utes at #60...
Seems like an "objective opinion" is a bit of an oxymoron. Aren't
all opinions subjective by definition?Opinions and speculation are
interesting, but that's all they are. This will be an important season for
all 3 Utah D1 schools. Best of luck to all of them.
There's only ONE reason the jets have a prayer again this year. Dennis
Erickson. Without him they own another toilet bowl season.Go Aggies.
Chukie is hands down the most complete QB in the state, and one of the best in
the country. I have always been very impressed with his poise, scrambling
ability and accuracy. I am excited to see what he can do this season, hopefully
he can stay healthy and have a great season. I'd love to see USU take down
Tennessee in the opener. Taysom is not a bad QB, but his athletic
ability alone is impressive. He has break-away speed, a decent arm, and is a
very physical runner. If he can improve his passing, which off-season reports
say he has (Top 8 in Manning Camp) Taysom could put up some stupid number in
2014.Wilson has potential. He has been plagued by poor O-line play,
dropped/tipped passes, and playing a grueling SOS. Plus he has had 3 different
OC's in his time at the U, so it's hard to master a scheme and preform
well in those conditions. Unfortunately I don't think he will make it
through the season without another injury, so we won't ever really know his
potential.Just my opinion.
The rankings look accurate to me. Utah's QB position has been suspect for a
while. I'n not sold on Wilson either. This Utah fan would take Chuckie
Keaton in a minute; the guy can flat out play the game.@Y Grad/Y
DadI hope all is well my friend. Stay out of the heat; supposed to
be 107 F in the tri-cities tomorrow.....Yikes!
I agree with the Utah State ranking. Having Chuckie back and having a backup QB
that led the team to a 6-1 record is a great situation to be in. However, if you
drop the Utes for injury, you have to drop BYU and Utah State because both QBs
were injured as well. Also, TW is extremely more accurate than TH and can run as
well. So, putting BYU ahead of the Utes by that much, considering that the Utes
at least have a backup with college experience is confusing. It is also
confusing all of the hype following BYU with their unproven players. Here's
to hoping for a great season for all! Go Utes!
The comments so far are sorely trying my new commitment to civility in my
comments.So let me just say first, that I neither agree nor disagree
with the authors opinions. I find them interesting, and I will admit that I
find them pleasing to my ear, they are nothing more: the opinion of a person who
is paid to have a reasoned opinion and share it.I do respectfully
disagree with the assertion that Taysom's opponents last year were
WACish.However, I can recognize that this year's level of
defenses will be somewhat lower. I would expect Taysom's numbers, and
performance, to be exponentially better. He DID improve as the season wore on,
his line should be improved, he should have even more viable targets to pass to,
and the whole team is one year more experienced with a new offensive scheme.Personally, I'd be surprised if the QB production, as opposed to
situation, for both BYU and USU, does not exceed the preseason expectations.And I hope this is the year it all comes together for Utah and it's
quarterbacks. Wilson, for one, has earned it.
Something has gone terribly wrong...the best QBs, according to Stang0, are at
@ Chris BBlah blah blah. We get it. The PAC12 is bigger and better
than the MWC. Big deal. Nobody who is not a Utah fan cares. But that fact is
irrelevant anyway. Even you can't tell me that if Kyle Whittingham had an
opportunity to magically trade Wilson and his 2nd string QB for Keeton and
Garretson he wouldn't do it. You know he would in a heartbeat. After all,
Keeton is 1-1 against Utah, and owns the overall point differential by 3. Even
BYU would probably trade (although no BYU fan will probably ever admit it),
since their second string QB hasn't played a down of D1 football and Hill
doesn't really fit particularly well in BYU's offensive tradition.
Keeton/Garretson would be a much better fit, partly because they can both throw
the ball more than 10 yards downfield with accuracy.
Chris BNot a lot of room to talk about Wins....considering U
haven't really been racking them up the past few years.Great,
and extremely accurate article. Once the season begins, we will see how well
Travis Wilson compares to Chuckie and Taysom. Not even close.
54-10When you look at stats, I'd have to agree with the
rankings. But then again, big brother plays teams like USC and Stanford and
Oregon and UCLA, and the mid majors are playing WAC defenses week after week
after week.Like you say, when they meet on the field, our QB's
are more than capable of getting the W.Theirs are not(see 7-1 record
last 8 games against our WAC brothers)Go UTES
These rankings are preposterous. Doesn't Mike Huguenin know that BYU is the
best and Utah State is the worst.
... and yet on the field, Utah owns BYU and Utah State.Go figure.