@ UteanymousI don't disagree with anything you said. Until
very recently, 45,000 was perfect for Utah. Interest has definitely increased
since joining the PAC-12, and I think a stadium between 55-58K would be perfect.
I don't think Chris Hill is reluctant to expand RES. I just think he
recognized that investing in Utah's other athletic programs and facilities
was more pressing that expanding the stadium.
2ferThe simple truth is if the Utah administration thought they
could fill a 65,000 seat stadium on a regular basis, RES would have been
expanded a long time ago.Chris Hill is justifiably reluctant to risk
spending millions to expand RES, only to see RES become like the HC was for many
years, a vast sea of empty red chairs.
2ferThe discussion wasn't about what students could afford, or
whether you feel bad for students having to pay so much for school, the
discussion was about the average price of football tickets at RES and LES.Thanks for admitting that Utah students pay less half what BYU students
pay for football tickets.BYU ROC pass = $110 to $180Utah MUSS
pass = $50-----------btw, you left out one huge factor
in the cost of an education at BYU and Utah, housing.90% of Utah
students are from Utah and the majority commute to school.66% of BYU
students are from out of state and have to pay room and board.
@ UteanymousI disagree. I believe there are a few games this year
where Utah would pull 65,000 if RES had the capacity. I don't know what
you mean by give away, but during my time at the U, a MUSS ticket rose in price
from $25 dollars to $50 dollars. if you have a non-student guest, they pay the
full season ticket price.BTW, BYU students pay a heavily subsidized
tuition, so i don't feel bad if they have to pay a little extra for an all
I swear reading these comments is like watching the 104th ranked middle weight
take on the 106th ranked middle weight for UFC bragging rights. Entertaining?
Yes. Relevant? No. Independence or PAC12 irrelevance is still
irrelevance. No one in the PAC12 cares about Utah, and no one outside Utah or
the lds community cares about BYU...deal with it (and I'm a BYU fan who is
just realistic). I'm heading to the SEC boards...I'll rejoin when the
season starts and there isn't the same pointless drivel and "my dad can
beat up your dad" nonsense. Seriously, I'm so over this rivalry.
Razzle2There's nothing wrong with critiquing the program, but
when that critique is incessantly negative about everything and everybody
associated with the program, it does raise a red flag about where your true
2ferUtah isn't capable of filling a 65,000 seat stadium, which
is why RES remains at 45,000 THIRTY years after LES was expanded.If
you factor in the several thousand tickets Utah gives away to students,
Utah's average ticket price is significantly lower than BYU's.btw, BYU students also pay student fees, but they also pay $110 to $180
for a ROC (formerly All Sports) Pass to attend BYU football games.
@ Taysom4HeismanUtah sets single game ticket prices based on demand.
Utah had a 99% season renewal rate, and ISU is the season opener so it's
my guess that the minimum face value for a ticket to that game will be between
It's frustrating when we critique the management of our program and other
fans assume we are Utes. We are not all blind.
Hey angry Ute fans. Could it be that BYU's independence is the best option
for right now? Could it be that the only thing better would be a P5
invite/match? There's nothing in this article that contradicts
the players enjoying traveling to various football venues with them knowing that
being in a P5 conference would be the ultimate goal for the program.Quit trying to build arguments where there are none. Sheesh.Go
Indy (for now) BYU!
@Vegas Ute"Hey if you hurry, you can still get tickets for $7
for byU's senior day game!Independence is indeed
lucrative."I'm gonna take a guess that you are looking at
the seats way at the top in the corner.Because even against Savannah
State, we will get around 50,000 to 55,000 fans (by the way, more than utah will
get even when Oregon comes to town), so most of the available seats are in the
corners.So $7 is nowhere near the average ticket price even against
Savannah State.P.S. what is the price for corner seats for the Idaho
State game?I don't know the answer but I bet it's either
less than $7 or not a whole lot more.This has nothing to do with how
lucrative independence is. It has to do with corner seats against an FCS team.
@Tomahawk Red"Those were not random quotes in the least. They
were quotes from league officials specifying the reasons Utah was
invited."Yes, they were random quotes. The topic I was
discussing with this ute fan was whether Sunday play factored in to BYU's
not being invited into the Pac-12.Yes, they were indeed quotes from
league officials specifying the reasons utah was invited. And not a single one
said "they were willing to play on sundays" or anything of that matter.
They referred to utah's academics, which is great. utah's
academics are very well respected. But they have nothing to do with Sunday play.
In fact, BYU's academics standards are much higher and a degree from BYU
(outside of the medical field) is generally higher respected than one from utah.
Again, I'm not trying to slam utah as a school. They do a great job. But
their academic prestige is certainly not the reason they were chosen over
BYU.It may have been the type of academics (research institution)
but not the quality of education that is better than BYU's.
@Tomahawk Red"But the piece you refer to (the myth buster
slideshow) is a mix of known facts and speculation.Therefore, you
cannot take it as 100 percent fact, like you are."That is a very
reasonable comment. I agree, except for the part about me taking it as 100%
fact. I will admit I may have come across like I believed too strongly in it,
but I too understand that it is primarily speculation.However, there
is a whole lot more speculation that Sunday play left BYU out of the PAC-12 than
this one article. Sunday play being an issue has been mentioned several times by
several people, including very well educated ones like Greg Wrubell. Generally,
when he says a certain thing is going on, he has more of an inside scoop than
most others.I have heard zero speculation that sunday play was not
an issue except from red-goggled ute fans.So yes, it is not 100%
fact, and I apologize if I gave that vibe. But there is still some pretty strong
evidence to suggest it is true.
@y ask yA real fan doesn't whine incessantly, constantly cut
his supposed team down and generally behave in the manner you do. I don't
believe for a minute that you are a BYU fan.Being critical of the
way things are being done or the results are one thing but I've read enough
of your posts to know that isn't all you do. You consistently seek to cast
the school and program in a bad light and that is what utah "fans" do,
not BYU fans. So prove yourself if you are really a BYU fan, say
something good just one time about BYU and its program, something optimistic and
something that convinces us you actually are a fan and not another utah troll.
You don't have to be unrealistic or even be happy about how things
currently are, I know I'm not satisfied at all currently, but at least say
something good about the place occasionally. Outside of that no one believes a
word of what you say.
For those telling me I'm not a "true fan", I return the
accusation:Does a "true fan" settle for irrelevance? Does a
"true fan" support and appreciate error, mediocrity, and
failure"?Or does a true fan hope for the best for his team, and
aspire to success and achievement in a relevant and legitimate context?I say YOU people are not the true fans.
@ Red Tomahawk"most BYU fans"Stereotype alert!
Maybe most BYU fans that frequent comment boards or sports forums. I personally
love independence.I don't need to travel to mecca..I mean Utah
to watch a game live.I hope they stay Independent. I think some
fans are obsessed about National Championships (Probably BYU fans in Utah that
have to deal with their Ute neighbors).I would bet that a huge
amount / most BYU fans don't even live in Utah. If that is the case why
wouldn't they be happy about BYU being Independent? They have a much
greater probability watching BYU live near where they live with BYU being
Independent.I can't wait till their game in Maryland in 2 years
vs. WVU. I am already planning on going to that game.
I think there's a real advantage to the regular season scheduling. BYU has
done a nice job of putting together their schedule(s). The down side of
Independence is the bowl choices, or lack there of. Tied into a low, low tier
bowl game, in Miami, before the season ever starts has to be a real downer. Win
6, 8 or 11 and that's the destination vs the American Conference Champ. As far as BYU not getting a Power 5 conference invite, others have
nailed it. No one is going to accept a team who comes into the league, not
willing to comprimise TV rights. Utah had to make concessions when they joined
the PAC 12. Plus no one wants a team dictating what days they will and will not
@SammyG"I wonder when the Utes and fans will finally start
acting like a real P5 football team and fanbase. They've gotten
worse since the MWC days.They sure seem conflicted about who they
are and how they play."Sammy this may or not be true but either
way the cougies have lost to the utes every year you're reffering to so
what does that say about them recently following MWC days?
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIRE: Tomahawk Red"So
what's your point?..."Thank you for posting a reasonable
account of both BYU and Utah's standing in the national picture. My post
was in response to Uteology who was indeed insinuating that Utah has more
national esteem than BYU.---------------I wasn't
the one claiming BYU brings more to the table than Utah and Colorado.
That's your fanbase, including Dick Harmon when he went on ESPN and nearly
cried when Utah was invited.The national picture is pretty much:1. SEC, PAC-12, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame2. AAC, MWC, CUSA,
Hey if you hurry, you can still get tickets for $7 for byU's senior day
game!Independence is indeed lucrative.
Taysom4HeismanHeber City, UTyou provided no proof that Sunday
wasn't an issue. You dodged the topic with random quotes.----------Those were not random quotes in the least. They were
quotes from league officials specifying the reasons Utah was invited. If BYU was excluded primarily because of Sunday play, then those officials
would not have brought up the criteria they did -- because they wouldn't
have mattered.In other words, if Sunday play kept BYU out, the
officials would have cited other reasons for Utah's invite -- like our BCS
victories or recent success on the field. The fact that they mentioned academics
and standing means they were looking for those accomplishments in potential
candidates. And BYU didn't have them.I will admit that Sunday
play may have been a very MILD factor in the decision not to invite BYU... but
it was a very small consideration. If P10 really wanted BYU they would have
invited them and worked around the Sunday stipulation. If Utah had a No Sunday
Play policy, the P10 still would've invited them -- because we met the
overall criteria of what they were looking for.
Taysom4HeismanHeber City, UT@MyPerspectiveI figured you
wouldn't count my source as credible even though it's by a
professional writer.Lafe Peavler is a writer whose job is to provide
arguments backed by fact. If he only wrote biased BYU comments, he would be
fired. It's his responsibility to provide credible information.---------You're putting too much stock into this
writer's words. Yes, he is a journalist, which is above the casual blogger.
But the piece you refer to (the myth buster slideshow) is a mix of known facts
and speculation.Therefore, you cannot take it as 100 percent fact,
like you are.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WI1. Top Power 5 teams (i.e. Alabama,
Texas, USC)2. Middle of the road Power 5 teams and outstanding mid-majors
(i.e. Washington, BYU, Boise State)3. Lower tier Power 5 and up-and-coming
mid-major (i.e. Utah, UCF, Cincy)4. The rest.-------Yeah I agree with that hierarchy, if we're talking about fanbase and
following. Not if that's based on performance.Utah
As far as Bowl game vs Washington, it had a rating of 2.3, #18 out of 36 bowls
games.2011: Utah-GT had a 2.71 rating (CBS) and BYU-Tulsa 1.432010: Utah-Boise 3.78 and BYU-UTEP 2.112009: Utah-Cal 2.81 and
ekuteLayton, UTNo doubt one of the stumbling blocks for byu is
that in the unlikely event that inclusion was ever considered by the P5 holmoe
would arrogantly insist on full membership from day one.----------Already happened with the Big XII. In fact, BYU
arrogantly demanded more than that.The conference considered BYU
when they needed to get back to 10 teams, brought BYU into the discussion, and
Holmoe promptly proceeded to act like he was the Texas Longhorns.Something to the effect of, "Your conference is in real trouble right
now... unstable and uncertain. You need BYU. We're a national brand. We
will save this conference. We have fans all over the world! So if you really
want us, it's gonna cost you! FULL membership from day one, PLUS we
don't have to share a dime of our own TV revenue, and we keep all of our
broadcast rights. That's the deal. Take it or leave it."Big
XII said, "leave it"... and promptly extended an invite to TCU.Now Holmoe and administrators leap at every opportunity to deny this happened
because it was such a monumental embarrassment.
@MyPerspectiveI figured you wouldn't count my source as
credible even though it's by a professional writer.Lafe Peavler
is a writer whose job is to provide arguments backed by fact. If he only wrote
biased BYU comments, he would be fired. It's his responsibility to provide
credible information.As for your criteria, of course Sunday play
wasn't involved for other schools. They already ruled BYU out and Sunday
play is not any kind of issue for any other school. Sunday play was involved
with BYU. But I think it's obvious that Sunday play would not be a criteria
when considering any other school.Regarding your quotes, those do
nothing to prove Sunday wasn't an issue. It just said the Pac-12 was
excited to have utah. What do you expect them to say? "We
don't really like utah, I don't know why we added them.". Of
course they say they're excited to have them. It's like when coaches
say they believe that a 2-star walk on could be a future star.Once
again, you provided no proof that Sunday wasn't an issue. You dodged the
topic with random quotes.
RE: Tomahawk Red"So what's your point?..."Thank you for posting a reasonable account of both BYU and Utah's
standing in the national picture. My post was in response to Uteology who was
indeed insinuating that Utah has more national esteem than BYU. As both he/she
and you have pointed out, in the national picture it is pretty much...1. Top Power 5 teams (i.e. Alabama, Texas, USC)2. Middle of the road
Power 5 teams and outstanding mid-majors (i.e. Washington, BYU, Boise State)3. Lower tier Power 5 and up-and-coming mid-major (i.e. Utah, UCF, Cincy)4. The rest.
UteologyEast Salt Lake City, Utah@WiscougarfanThe rain
made BYU world-wide TV audience stay away? Boy are you guys fickle fans.It wasn't about Utah, it was about BYU's world-wide
audience.--------Exactly like I said.
Surf is UpMiami, FLI guess the utes occupation of the bottom
slots of the PAC12 have U guys flailing to convince yourselves there is a bright
of superiority somewhere in your U-niverse. ---------No
flailing at all among Ute fans. We know for a fact that Utah is superior to BYU.
And most BYU fans know it, too.4 in a row9 of 1254-10Pac 12Beatdown complete.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIBYU had 13.9 million total tv
viewers last season, Utah had 3.3 million (according to Nielsen’s
ratings). --------So what's your point? Is there
even a single Utah fan here claiming that Utah has a bigger or more national
fanbase than BYU? I don't think anyone really believes that.Utah is limited to regional appeal and a very very small national reach. BYU
has regional appeal with a larger national reach. But BYU is certainly not a
national "brand" as so many of you claim. A national brand is Alabama,
Texas, USC, Notre Dame, even Penn State. Very few teams are national brands...
and BYU isn't among them.Yes, BYU has a decent national
footprint. Utah does not. But that doesn't make BYU a national brand, like
Coca-Cola.Utah fans bringing up TV numbers is absolutely relevant
because it is an argument against Y fans' "national brand" claim.
Thus, proper reply to that is not, "Well, look at Utah's TV
numbers."Because no one is claiming Utah has more viewers than
BYU. The argument is BYU is not THAT strong nationally.
Cougs4Life,Colorado made a lateral move, P5 conference to P5
conference.No doubt one of the stumbling blocks for byu is that in
the unlikely event that inclusion was ever considered by the P5 holmoe would
arrogantly insist on full membership from day one.
scottAlpine, UTI find in amusing that 5 years after the fact, Utah
fans are still trying to justify Utah's invitation to the PAC.----------Only to BYU fans, because you guys can't stop
bringing it up.We made it. You didn't. Accept it. Move on.
talkinsportsGilbert, AZThe fact that most of BYU's games
are on ESPN, while most of Utah's games are on the PAC net, says it all.----------Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!Right,
Uteology... what are you doing coming in here with stats and facts?Don't you know that ambiguous and scantly-supported speculation is how Y
fans roll? BYU showing up on ESPNU and ESPN 5 every Thursday and Friday night is
the real proof of who's the better team.Every now and then,
there's a Y fan remark that I literally sit and shake my head at and wonder
if they know anything at all. And this is definitely one of them.
@WisconsinOkay, I was bored. Lets ignore the Texas game since it
rained and apparently BYU fans are fickle so their world-wide audience
doesn't tune in.Notre Dame on NBC, again lowest ratings was
BYU. Even Temple 2.5 M viewers beat out BYU 2.29 M? No! How can that be? Georgia Tech 3:30 on ESPNU:Miami 857 KPitt 362 KBYU 358 KDuke 161 KSaved by Duke from having the lowest
ratings.I can go on but I think you get the point.
Darren RoweHeber City, UTAnd this is from 2012 by the way,
when BYU was playing Idaho and New Mexico State in November.-----------Well I guess we can safely say it will be about the
same for 2014. Savannah State and UNLV.LOL
Cougs4LifeGilbert, AZUtah has yet to earn a full revenue
share. Colorado got a full share from day 1? ----------I
read this and wonder, what is your point? Are you getting at something? If so,
please get to it.But you're not. You're trying to claim
(ridiculously) that Utah is foolish for joining the conference on a graduated
financial scale. Well I got news for you. That's how it's done in most
cases. I don't know whether Colorado did or didn't do that, but they
did have to pay a ton to get out of the Big XII. Utah did not. Nebraska's
financial transition to the Big Ten was worse than either, as are all of the
other teams that have switched conferences.If we're talking
financially, Utah BY FAR got the best deal in joining their new conference. They
had to WAIT for their revenue, but didn't have to pay a dime. Everyone else
was forced to pay millions.And the worst part for you is, most BYU
fans would agree to give up five years of revenue if it got them into the Big
I do not envy BYU (the fans and administrators). BYU is in quite the pickle.
Indepence isn't working out so great and BYU's only hope to join a P5
conference isn't a good one. The Big XII has problems. The Big XII is more
of a hegemony than a conference. Texas is king and gets as much of the pie as
they want while the other teams get to scramble over the leftovers. Just happy
that my team is in the comfortable confines of the Pac 12.
RE: Uteology“To get an idea of BYU’s national pull:
Saturday, August 31 299k 3:30 PM BYU Virginia ESPNU…”I
love that you picked this single game to support your claim that BYU has a small
national audience.------------I guess you missed the
part where I compared your other 3 ESPNU games to the 64 other games on ESPNU?
Let me quote myself again:Out of 64 games on ESPNU:BYU
at Virgina was ranked #42 in ratingsMiddle Tennessee at BYU #41BYU
at Georgia Tech #33
@WiscougarfanThe rain made BYU world-wide TV audience stay away?
Boy are you guys fickle fans.It wasn't about Utah, it was about
BYU's world-wide audience.Nope, the viewership was high because
of Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Texas, and Boise State, not BYU.The Friday
time slot vs Boise State on ESPN 2, again BYU had the lowest ratings:vs Fresno 2.12Mvs Air Force 2.0Mvs BYU 1.9MWisconsin
3:30 on ESPN:vs Penn State 2.2Mvs BYU 2.1Mvs Minn
1.8MI will let you do the research for Texas and Notre Dame.
WiscougarfanStop confusing Uteology with numbers that don't
support his biased, crimson-colored version of the world.
Regardless of how Utah fans try to cook the books, Utah's athletic program
is losing money and has to be subsidized by a school which already has millions
in deferred maintenance to deal with.ekuteEven Utah fans
have admitted that the primary and secondary reasons that Utah and Colorado were
invited to the PAC had absolutely nothing to do their mediocre football
programs, which has become abundantly clear in the last three years.
The frequent flier miles will definitely pile up. But traveling that often will
likely result in some losses that normally wouldn't happen. Travel can be
purgatory.Wow. I see a lot of posts from all of you usual suspects
who have almost all claimed repeatedly that you have "moved on" from
BYU. But as always it seem that U have been unable to move on. Instead you
incessantly post negatives to all things BYU.I guess the utes
occupation of the bottom slots of the PAC12 have U guys flailing to convince
yourselves there is a bright of superiority somewhere in your U-niverse. Don't U believe it. Its just a mirage.
RE: Uteology“To get an idea of BYU’s national pull:
Saturday, August 31 299k 3:30 PM BYU Virginia ESPNU…”I
love that you picked this single game to support your claim that BYU has a small
national audience. Here are a few details you failed to point out…1. The BYU/Virginia game had a two hour rain delay. 2.
Utah’s most viewed game in 2013 was vs. BYU, no other game was even
close.3. BYU had 1.29 million viewers vs. Texas, 1.97 vs. Boise State,
2.18 m vs. Wisconsin, 2.29 m vs. Notre Dame, and 3.75 m vs. Washington. Two of
those games were on Friday but still pulled in huge viewership. 4. BYU had
13.9 million total tv viewers last season, Utah had 3.3 million (according to
Nielsen’s ratings). Nielsens didn’t include the non-national
games… which was roughly half Utah’s schedule so that comparison
isn’t completely accurate. I would guess it was closer to 5 million total
viewers (and would love it if any Utah fan could give me actual numbers for
their conference games).
What's amusing is cougar "fans" desperately discrediting Utah as
reason why byu should be included while completely ignoring the elephant in the
room(byu can't beat Utah head to head).Even at les the cougars
are 3-7 vs the Utes the last 20 years. lol.
talkinsportsGilbert, AZUteologyYour other biased,
cherry-picked, "number crunching" is meaningless.The fact
that most of BYU's games are on ESPN, while most of Utah's games are
on the PAC net, says it all.-------------After 40+ years
of discussions and BYU still begging to Big 12 for an invite, says it all.
I find in amusing that 5 years after the fact, Utah fans are still trying to
justify Utah's invitation to the PAC.
UteologyYour other biased, cherry-picked, "number crunching"
is meaningless.The fact that most of BYU's games are on ESPN,
while most of Utah's games are on the PAC net, says it all.
@Darren RoweIn the article, it clearly states that BYU generated
$22.4 million in revenue with a $7.41 million profit. utah grossed $20.7 million
with a $5.9 million profit.-----------------The article
was referring to data from U.S Department of Education. No idea how
Deseret News got $22.4 million revenues for BYU in 2012, revenues that year were
only $18.6 million.Here's the latest reported data from
Utah/Colorado (2013) and BYU did not report 2013 data:Colorado
Football Revenues (reporting year 7/1/2012 - 6/30/2013): $30,547,707Utah Football Revenues (reporting year 7/1/2012 - 6/30/2013): $27,640,267 BYU Revenues (reporting year 1/1/2012 - 12/31/2012): $18,639,413Note that unlike Colorado and BYU, Utah only had partial share of the TV
revenues last season.
Taysom4HeismanHeber City, UT"...article by Lafe Peavler on
Deseret News, from June 11, 2014."So, your credible source is
another byu fan? Thought so. Now, please show me where the Pac-10 presidents
and chancellors said they were looking for an institution that would play on
Sunday.Here's what the Pac-10 said...Pac-10
criteria in order:1) Academics2) Research3) Athletic
prowess -Athletics press conference, June 17, 2010"The
U's Pac-10 affiliation is an affirmation by the Pac-10 universities of the
University of Utah's standing as a leading American university, also a
condition for Pa-10 membership and without which judgment, the invitation would
never have been extended." -David P. Gardner, President Emeritus of
the University of California Education System"With the additions
of Utah and Colorado, the Pac-10 is joined with the two most prestigious
institutions in the Rocky Mountains." -Larry Scott, June 17, 2010I'm sorry, Taysom4Heisman, in no way was Sunday play a condition of
Pac-10 membership. byu fans made that up and repeated it until it became a
Sorry, one of my comments was under the screen name "Darren Rowe".That is the screen name I used to use, but I typically use this one now.
I just forgot to change it. Same person though!@UteologyDo you want to know why the Virginia game got such low ratings? There was a 2
hour rain delay, and the game got moved off of ESPNU. Of course it had low
ratings. The game wasn't even going on when most people thought it was. As for the Georgia Tech game, that is not a great rating, but it's
respectable. But do you really expect us to get a high rating playing MTSU? I
think Alabama vs. MTSU would have a pretty bad rating.So one of the
games has a decent rating, while the other two have very legitimate explanations
for having bad ratings.
@ Michael RomenyYeah like good ole Utah is relevant in the Pac10+2
right? Count on another 5-7 or even 4-8 season. Write it down!
@Cougs4LifeTCU and West Virgina do not have full share of revenues
in the Big 12 as well. So what's your point?ESPN also has a
contract with Boise State. No P5 league is bending over backwards to add either
BYU or Boise State.To get an idea of BYUs national pull:Saturday, August 31 299K 3:30 PM BYU Virginia ESPNU * Third lowest
TV ratings in that time slot* Lowest viewership vs Virginia on ESPNU
(compared to 3 other games)* Out of 64 games on ESPNU, ranked #42 in
ratings (MT @ BYU #41 and BYU @GT #33)Why so low? Where's your
@MyPerspective"That said, you talk like you have a credible
source. Provide it, and I will happily read it."I would be more
than happy to give you a source.Like I said in my last comment, I
have never been able to post URL's. They get denied.However,
google "pac 12 doesn't want byu because of sunday play". The third
result is an article by Lafe Peavler on Deseret News, from June 11, 2014.It says that both Sunday play and BYU not being a research institution
contributed to our exclusion from the Pac-12.I know Lafe is not
necessarily an inside source with the Pac-12. But his job is to write articles
with some credible facts to back it up. I think we can trust there is some truth
to it.And by the way, you also talk like you have some credible
sources that Sunday play was not an issue. You also sound like an expert on the
Pac 10 presidents' criteria to add 2 new teams.Give me a source
and I will happily read it, my friend.As always, I back up my
statements with fact, unlike quite a few other people.
@ Y Ask Y"I will not return to the Cougar Club and full support
of BYU athletics until we have a home in a legitimate Conference."Enjoy your free time. :)
@Uteology"Show us the numbers."I would be happy
to.I have tried to provide URL's on my comments before, and
they are always denied.But if you google "byu football
revenue", the first result is an article by Deseret News on January 8,
2013.In the article, it clearly states that BYU generated $22.4
million in revenue with a $7.41 million profit. utah grossed $20.7 million with
a $5.9 million profit.Which is exactly what I said in my previous
comment. Once again, I actually back up my comments with facts, rather than
throwing out whatever random idea pops into my head.And this is from
2012 by the way, when BYU was playing Idaho and New Mexico State in November.
What??? The players can't have their own opinions???
Cougs4LifeGilbert, AZ"ESPN isnt a charitable organization.
Like any successful business, they make investments that provide a return. If
they didn't make more in ad revenue than they paid, they would renegotiate
the contract. Based on all athletic revenue, including TV ad revenue with ESPN,
BYU can generate more than Utah or Colorado. Would ESPN give a contract to every
team if they were independent? No.So, according to you, byu adds
value because ESPN said so. Applying the same logic, you must agree that Utah
adds value and is a Pac-10 caliber institution...because the Pac-10 said so.
Who are you to argue with the Pac-10 / 12? And that, Cougs4Life,
is the reason we like our Pac-12 stickers!
@Taysom4HeismanSo I don't know where you guys thought my
comments were wrong, but the numbers prove BYU generates more revenue through
TV, ticket sales, etc. than utah or colorado. ------------Show us the numbers.
Taysom4HeismanHeber City, UT"Ok, I have no idea where you
heard that Sunday play was not an issue for BYU getting into the Pac-12, but it
was. Look it up anywhere you like. The Pac-12 did not want to move their
schedules to avoid Sundays, so they immediately ruled BYU out, along with the
fact that we are not a research institution."I never heard that
Sunday play was not an issue, not from a credible source. Your statement of
fact does not a credible source make. I know exactly where you heard that
Sunday play was an issue...byu fans made it up after Dick Harmon printed an
emotional article proclaiming the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors to be
bigots. byu fans began to attribute their misfortune to Sunday play and, as
with most things byu, speculation repeated becomes an absolute fact. .Again, the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors were very clear about the
criteria to be met and Sunday play was never part of the equation. Desperate
and emotional byu fans made that up. That said, you talk like you
have a credible source. Provide it, and I will happily read it.
@MyPerspectiveOk, I have no idea where you heard that Sunday play
was not an issue for BYU getting into the Pac-12, but it was. Look it up
anywhere you like. The Pac-12 did not want to move their schedules to avoid
Sundays, so they immediately ruled BYU out, along with the fact that we are not
a research institution.@CrowYes, I know utah makes more
revenue than BYU. I already mentioned that in my last comment. I said BYU
GENERATES more revenue. According to reports (which I know are not necessarily
accurate), BYU generates about 7 or 8 million dollars and they keep that money.
No more, no less. utah generates about 5 million but they will make about 20
million because of their Pac-12 membership.And yes, it's true
BYU doesn't sell out all of our games, but we still averaged 59,000 people
per home game last year. I think we all know utah had a lot less people than
that, and therefore a lot less revenue.
I prefer Independence. We don't have to play the same teams year after
year. We also have opportunities to play all over the country.I
still would enjoy having some associations such as ND had with the Big East and
now has with the ACC. I would like seeing BYU affiliate with the B12 in such a
way. Play five games a year, one neutral NFL stadium game, two home and two road
games. Rotate through the schedule so that the stadium game is different each
year, and play each team once every other year.I want to see Army
and Navy on the schedule.I want to see BYU go after the best teams
from the minor conferences. UCF and Houston/USU and Boise State/MTS fit the
bill this year for three conferences. Get Northern Ill and/or Ball State on the
C'mon moderators. You let this through on the Harvey Langi story, but you
won't allow something much gentler on this one? Please explain.DuckhunterHighland, UTAt this point I can't decide which
outcome will bring me more laughs and amusement. If he comes to BYU the utah
"fan" reaction will probably be even more hilarious than the speculation
reaction has been, but if he stays at utah we are then going to hear about how
great he is and a million other contradictions and funny pieces of hypocrisy.
Frankly either is a win but the truth is it has already been a win. I can't
remember the last thread that was this much fun.
esodijeALBUQUERQUE, NMHave to agree with IQ92. BYU would be stupid
to make a national championship the goal of its football program; at the very
least, the type of players it would have to recruit and the rules it would have
to break to attract them to Provo (and keep them there), aren't worth the
fool's gold that a NC represents. Independence, and the fact that almost
all of the Y's games are on TV (ESPN, BYUtv, even NBC), solidified my
status as a Cougs fan, and I know many others like me. (The only games I
haven't been able to watch are the away games with the stupid PAC12, whose
sports network is practically a pay channel unto itself.) How would I feel if
the Y joined th4e Big 12? If it would mean that the Cougs wouldn't be on
TV, I'd say to heck with it.__________Any way you
cut it, ESPN BYUtv and even NBC are pay channels. By way of Direct TV, Comcast
or other, those channels are not free.
@myperspective:ESPN isnt a charitable organization. Like any
successful business, they make investments that provide a return. If they
didn't make more in ad revenue than they paid, they would renegotiate the
contract. Based on all athletic revenue, including TV ad revenue with ESPN, BYU
can generate more than Utah or Colorado. Would ESPN give a contract to every
team if they were independent? No.Pac12 isn't a charity
either. The Utes add value from: 1. A traveling partner for CO, who was invited
first. 2. A 12th team to balance schedules and to create two divisions and a
conference championship game that increased the value of the TV package. 3.
Provide an easy win on the schedule for the marquee conference teams. Utah on its own could not generate equivalent revenue to what BYU does because
not as many people across the country want to watch them play. Therefore, they
mooch off the conference. Utah's contribution to the Pac12 has yet to earn
a full revenue share, this will be the first year. Colorado got a full share
from day 1? Utah isn't picked for the premier TV slots...they don't
bring enough eyeballs.
@taysomforheism byu generates more money then Utah in tv revenue? Funny since
Utah receives $18 million for their share in tv revenue. It has been speculated
byu receives a meer $1million per home game and has to cover all of the
production costs to keep the rights of their games which eats into their tv
revenue? As for as ticket revenue for byu when was their last sell out? Let me
tell you against Utah last year. byu did not even sell out for the Texas game.
Compared to Utah who is on their 6 straight season of selling out their stadium
even with two losing seasons.Utah has the better facilities in a
power 5 conference. I know a lot of byu fans who are giving up their season
tickets this year or have given up their season tickets because of independence.
They are not content with the teams coming into les to play byu.
Utah'95Nobody's twisting your arm and forcing you to read
any article concerning BYU sports, so why are you complaining?
Y Ask Y"As a Cougar fan, I have objected to and hated
Independence from day 1."Your constant complaining and put downs
of BYU sports is proof enough that you were never much of a BYU fan to begin
I love reading cougar fans debate back and forth (as encouraged by house-organ
DNews) between the merits of independance and the aching desire to join a real
conference. And reading Ducky explain why he went to Disneyland
instead of Maui (or Tulsa)? Wow, it doesn't get any better!
It's great being different
@Y ask Y...now that is a true (and honest) blue fan.From a Utes fan...wish
you the best in your wait for BYU to join a legit conference.
Taysom4HeismanHeber City, UT"Actually it's not
speculative on my part that BYU brings more revenue than utah and colorado.
It's the actual facts." Again I'll ask...how is this
an actual "facts." byu mooches money off of ESPN so take that off the
table and show this board how byu brings in more revenue than Utah and / or
Colorado. "And how does the statement "I doubt the Pac-12
will want BYU" mean that I think BYU is entitled to something? Yes, I very
well understand that we were never considered. And it was because neither BYU
nor the Pac-12 would budge on Sunday play." Again, the
Presidents and Chancellors of the Pac-10 schools set forth clear criteria on
which an invitation would go forward. Sunday play, contrary to your assertion,
had absolutely nothing to do with it...nothing. byu is not entitled to have
that which they have not earned.
I have to admit, although I wish BYU was in a conference, I am very excited to
be wearing blue in Orlando this year (and off to see Baltimore at Tampa.)I am also excited to drive again to the Rose Bowl to see the Utes.
@MyPerspective and UteologyActually it's not speculative on my
part that BYU brings more revenue than utah and colorado. It's the actual
facts. Sure, utah now makes more revenue than BYU because they mooch money off
of the conference, but BYU actually generates more. Same goes for colorado.And how does the statement "I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU"
mean that I think BYU is entitled to something? Yes, I very well understand that
we were never considered. And it was because neither BYU nor the Pac-12 would
budge on Sunday play. I'm not saying we would have gotten an offer had that
issue been resolved. But it kept any conversations from even starting up.So I don't know where you guys thought my comments were wrong, but
the numbers prove BYU generates more revenue through TV, ticket sales, etc. than
utah or colorado. And I never said BYU is entitled to a Pac-12 invite. In fact,
I was saying the complete opposite, that BYU will never be in the Pac-12.
It's funny how everyone thinks that joining the Big XII is just a phone
call away between Holmoe or Mendenhall and some coaches in Texas. Conference
invites come from university presidents and are about way more than athletics.
But athletics do seem to dictate more than they should in todays world and BYU
needs to back up all the talk they've been doing for the last few years. As
a Ute fan who would like to see them in the Big XII its going to take more than
30 year old championships and wins against New Mexico State and the mighty power
house of Middle Tennessee State to do it. But here's to hoping they can
pull it off! I think it would be awesome to have USC in RES and Oklahoma in LES
the same week!
@Taysom4Heisman"I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU. Even though
BYU brings much more money than utah or colorado, we were denied because of
Sunday play."----------How about that you were never
considered, like Boise State.Why do you think you are entitled to
I wonder if Bronco will use this survey in his power point the next time he begs
to the Big 12 for an invite. Considering that the only reason BYU is
not getting a Big 12 invite is due to a lack of a qualified partner, he should
also add a slide that includes a "List of Qualified Partners for BYU's
Invite". The only question is who, since there is no one that
really brings as much to the table as BYU.
If you watched the football day interviews you saw bronco answer the questions
about independence. Then tom answered the questions, as soon as tom started
answering bronco turned his head and looked down. body language does not match
what they are saying.
@Two For FlinchingI wonder if the author confused Southern Miss with
the SEC's Ol' Miss or Mississippi State?@Herbert GravyThen why didn't East Carolina or Middle Tennessee make the list?@scenic viewColorado has won 4 more wins than Southern Miss,
what do you think would happen to SM if they played in the PAC-12? Also, Utah finished #18 5 seasons ago, 6 seasons ago we finished #2.
If you watched the football day interviews you saw BM answer the question about
joining a conference, then you saw TH answer. As soon as TH started to answer BM
turned his head and looked down. I for one do not think they are on the same
page at all, but they are sure trying to make it look like that.
@DuckhunterThe difference between your vacation story and BYU'S
independence is that your family had the option to chose either Hawaii or
Disneyland...BYU has no option except independence... and Bronco is
on record that indy is not his preferred option.
Please, can we be done talking about BYU's independence vs. a Big 12 invite
that may never come?
The question was : What the players like about BYU football.That's what
they answered. Don't read more into it. 2 -
Lots of these comments are wondering why there are articles both about how BYU
likes being independent but how we also want to be in the Big 12. I've got
a couple reasons.1) Both are true. We like independence a lot more
than the MWC. It provides better money, schedules, travel, exposure, etc. But we
would also like to be a Big 12 member. They simply don't want to expand
yet. We are going to position ourselves as favorably as possible so that when
they do look to expand we are a good enough option. And we like independence as
the best way to get there.2) These stories are not written by Holmoe
or Mendenhall. These are writers who are looking for an interesting story to
write. Arguably the hottest topic this summer has been BYU's future and
their position in the college football world. That's why we have articles
promoting both the Big 12 and independence. What a writer says does not reflect
BYU's standpoint. BYU is happy with independence as a way to move
themselves into the Big 12 when necessary. And no random article is going to
Taysom4HeismanHeber City, UT"I doubt the Pac-12 will want
BYU. Even though BYU brings much more money than utah or colorado, we were
denied because of Sunday play."Whether byu would bring in more
money than Utah or Colorado is highly speculative on your part. However, your
assertion that byu was "denied" an invitation to the Pac-12 because of
Sunday play is flat out false. Man up and acknowledge that the Pac-12 is beyond
You know last Christmas I wanted to take my family on vacation, my prefered
destination was Hawaii, Kauai specifically, and I was all set to do it. But my
wife and kids decided they would prefer to go to Disneyland instead for some
reason so that is where we went. I really enjoyed myself at Disneyland, it was a
great trip.The point being that even though we don't always get
what we want immediately life is still pretty good doing some other things. Of
course utah "fans" won't get this, or they will but they'll
pretend not to, but most BYU fans get it. Life's good and independence is a
lot of fun. I'm having a great time with it.
Best headline ever.
Y Grad / Y DadYou said it better than anyone who posted before you.
I agree 100%!
Longtime BYU fan here, but I have to agree with ekute. This is like
when your wife asks if you like what she made for dinner or if she looks good in
the dress she just put on. You are almost obligated to say that you like it.
The players were painted in a corner.Independence is ok, but I
honestly don't foresee the Big 12 calling anytime soon. But like most BYU
fans, I'll remain hopeful.
Careful what you wish for. Being part of the Big 12 would have many benefits.
Travel to Lubbock, Stillwater, Ames, and a few other choice sites isn't one
Have to agree with IQ92. BYU would be stupid to make a national championship
the goal of its football program; at the very least, the type of players it
would have to recruit and the rules it would have to break to attract them to
Provo (and keep them there), aren't worth the fool's gold that a NC
represents. Independence, and the fact that almost all of the Y's games
are on TV (ESPN, BYUtv, even NBC), solidified my status as a Cougs fan, and I
know many others like me. (The only games I haven't been able to watch are
the away games with the stupid PAC12, whose sports network is practically a pay
channel unto itself.) How would I feel if the Y joined th4e Big 12? If it
would mean that the Cougs wouldn't be on TV, I'd say to heck with it.
Duckhunter:Happily, cougar fans can FINALLY check "go to a
Middle Tennessee State game in Murfreesboro" off their bucket lists. Logan, Boise, Reno, San Jose, Las Cruces -- all got checked off Y
fans' bucket lists these past few seasons, and hey....who all can say
they've "been there, done that" in Hattisburg? COUGAR
fans, THAT's who! Or at least that's who will be able to say that by
Oct. 2015. And I suppose fans from Alcorn St, Appalachian State, Texas St,
UTSA, and oh - hey...Middle Tennessee can all say that too! Woo-hoo!A-MAZ-ING!
@Chris B - I'm buying it. I like the variety. It's fun to watch the
other programs throughout the country. I'm actually a little bored with the
Utes beating up on Weber and Idaho St and then losing to the real PAC 12
@ scenic viewUtah went 10-3 in 2009 and 2010, and finished ranked
#18 and #23, respectively. Also, despite So. Miss's ranking in 2011, Utah
still managed to win a MUCH more prestigious bowl game. 750K payout vs. 1.9
Million (per team). Also, keep in mind that for each of the past 5 years, So.
Miss played in a conference that was far below the MWC and the PAC-12 You have a
weird definition for "much better", but to each their own.
I admit its better variety than playing a WAC schedule, byu's only other
option.But it pales in comparison to a "boring" and
"routine" schedule playing powerhouses with home and home agreements
year after year after year like the 65 power conference teams do.But
yes, after those 65 teams, byu has the best schedule in the nation!LOL
Hey folks, this article was about traveling and great ESPN and BYUtv exposers.
Former President Cecil Samuelson said we need better exposer and mwc was not one
of them. It was a good thing BYU left and became independent. Sure Bronco M.
said we want in with B12 but the question to those players was about having fun
traveling. We are playing in bigger stadium everywhere nothing compare to those
three places they mention every other years which was boring. Sure, realignment
are still in progress doesn't mean to panic. We will know sometime when Tom
Holmoe start to PANIC. I am sure BYU players have interest in joining one of
those P5. If we do go back to mwc only if P5 Commish will allow this league in
the mix which I dought it. The only thing I worried is the November Schedule.
When BYU was in the MWC and before, they nearly always won the conf
championship. It became a given that the championship had to go through Provo.
Utah achieved some parity in the last 15 years and TCU was good for a couple of
years. I remember when BYU fans were bored with the Holiday Bowl.I
do love the variety of independence. And I'm not worried about the NC. Only
11 teams have won a BCS NC, and now the deck is stacked even more in their
favor. The NC should never be the BYU goal. If they go unbeaten for a couple of
years in a row, maybe they get the invite, but people, the NC will consist same
old teams year after year, one of: Alabama, LSU, Florida, FSU, with occasional
flavoring of USC, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas. Utah will never get there, nor will
BYU. Washington? UCLA? Fuggeddaboutit.Just win, have a nice bowl,
top 10. That's realistic. NC? Naw. Deck's stacked. Who cares? I
haven't watched an NC games since USC Texas. I'd rather watch BYU vs
Washington any day.
Racking up the frequent flyer miles are great too.
A few weeks ago, Bronco said byu would "love to be in the Big 12." Since
that isn't going to happen(ever), it's time to implement damage
control by getting sound bites of players saying how much they love being
independent, and having nothing really to play for!
Too bad almost all the games against top teams are away games but that's
the price if you want to play them
Why is it difficult to understand, BYU likes independence... better than life in
the MWC. Even with the SEC and ACC snobbery, life is still better than in the
MWC.Life in the Big 12 could be better still... But life as an
independent is still good.
Somehow Howie expects BYU players to be disappointed playing as an independent.
BYU makes the best of what they have.I wonder what he expects Ute
players to feel like in December for a third time? Don't they know they
play in a P5 conference?I wonder when the Utes and fans will finally
start acting like a real P5 football team and fanbase. They've
gotten worse since the MWC days.They sure seem conflicted about who
they are and how they play.
@Howard S.No conflict. If BYU can get an offer to a Power-5
conference on reasonably acceptable terms, it'll gladly go -- same as
always. To date, that opportunity has not yet emerged from the shifting
landscape of college athletics! But in the meantime, it does make sense to take
the best out of the current circumstances -- not an altogether terrible or
unendurable situation -- and enjoy it, wouldn't you agree? Take lemons,
make lemonade -- capiche? See ya in Orlando, Howie. :-)
Howard S.,Just because the players like independence doesn't
mean that they can't say that inclusion in the Big 12 would be good for the
program. I like independence as well, but I would take a Big 12 invite, and
I'm sure Tom Holmoe would as well.
One day the des news is telling us Independence is preferable to a power
conference and the next its about how byu need to get in to the Big 12. BYU
fans know there program is in a horrible situation and will likely never be
relevant again as the P5 have all made it clear byu is not on the same level.
As a Cougar fan, I have objected to and hated Independence from day 1.I still do.I will not return to the Cougar Club and full support
of BYU athletics until we have a home in a legitimate Conference.Period.
The head coach conducted the survey. What are the players supposed to say? The
results are predictable. He was putting out a fire before it flared. You know,
@indemakYea because traveling around the country and going to
bunches of stadiums is something no one enjoys. I mean nobody's bucket list
involves traveling the country and going to sporting events in lots of different
stadiums. That is why fans never follow their teams to other places to watch
them play because no one enjoys doing that. lol
...why no one included RES on the list of exciting destinations? I thought that
Utah was a prestigious P5 institution with a long history of football success,
just like the others on the list?
Of course, Southern Miss belongs on this list. It's about the travel,
etc., not the school's record. Just think of the great southern foods that
the team can enjoy (hopefully) such as the ribs, pulled pork, etc. Hope the
"training table" will include these great culinary delights!
But for the involvement in the playoffs and Bowl game issues - Independence has
real benefits. The variety is great but the inconsistancy is bad. Kind of like
dating as opposed to being married. Some times you get great games
and other - well not so cool - but the truth is if you could solve the Bowl game
issue I would enjoy the rotation. Having said all that I must admit
- Notre Dame figured it out best by getting to remain free and at the same time
get 5 ACC games a year. Nice move.
Variety?Lol! Ya, because getting a variety of teams like unlv,
Virginia, middle Tennessee, is way better than playing the same old teams like
Stanford, Oregon, USC, and ucla year after year after year. How
boring huh?Anyone buying this?
And here comes the damage control... The last 4 weeks has seen
Mendenhall make it clear that he doesn't like independence (way to support
your AD, Bronco) and byu fans finally acknowledged that they would much rather
be in a conference. The ESPN contract was all but forgotten in the pleas to the
Big12 and criticisms from the SEC and ACC. Holmoe can't deliver what his
stakeholders want so the Des News is ramping up the "independence is
great" sales pitch again. Since byu fans love to hate the Utes
it's fun to point out that even the Utes, ostensibly shackled by their
elite conference, play in three time zones this year. One of those games is in
the storied "Big House." That said, who wants to be the
first to talk about the most exciting home game the cougs have this year...Utah
2ferSouthern Miss was 12-2 and finished #20 in both polls in 2011;
that's much better than anything Utah or Colorado have done in the last
five seasons.Colorado - 2-10, 6-7, 5-7, 3-9, 5-7, 3-10, 1-11, 4-8 -
hasn't had a winning record since 2005; shades of things to come for Utah.
I view independence the same way Bronco views it. It is a great way to play lots
of teams on national TV and get the word out there on what BYU is all about. BYU
has the ability to make it work for now. But ultimately, independence needs to
be a launching point into the Big 12. I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU. Even
though BYU brings much more money than utah or colorado, we were denied because
of Sunday play. Unless the Pac-12 becomes so desperate for a team to bring more
revenue in, they won't budge on bringing BYU in. The Big 12 seems much more
willing to work with that.Unfortunately, it seems like Tom Holmoe is
far too content with independence long term. He doesn't seem to see a
reason for joining. I think he needs to realize that independence needs to be
our path to get into the Big 12, not a place to stay long term.
Friday an article about how BYU should be in the Big 12 and Saturday an article
how great independence is. Seems like the DN sports writers just can't
decide. Which is it? Independence or we belong in a big boy conference? Truth is
BYU is independent because no conference wants them.
I recall the Wyoming, Utah, Utah State, Colorado State, etc. days, and when they
visited Provo year-in-year-out. Never had any doubt about what kind of influence
BYU had on them—meaning a negative influence. They had a special brand of
cheering just for BYU. A fresh group of teams to visit and who visit is more in
line with the BYU mission. Personally, I hope they always stay independent. (A
national championship is a pipe dream anyway.)
Several weeks ago Bronco lobbied the B12 for an invitation... now we read that
the players like independence.The BYU program seems a little
conflicted on the value of being independent and excluded from P5 conference
What's the point without conference positioning? What's the goal?
It's time to join a conference...please.
College Footballs earthquake is still rumbling. BYU was fortunate to get the
contract with ESPN but the conference re-alignment is still happening. The
independence which has temporarily helped BYU could come crashing down if big
name conference affiliated teams stop scheduling the Y.ESPN would not continue
to schedule non marquee games. A good conference affiliation has more stability
and a better long term outcome than independence.
We as a team just love traveling 15,000 miles so we can see historic sites. At
least we aren't Hawaii. I'm sure the team really feels that way. If
you say it enough, you start believing it.
Go Cougars! Here's hoping for a great season with many exciting games all
over the country. I'm planning on a warm week in Miami in December to see
my Cougs play in their bowl game! Independence definitely has its advantages!
I enjoyed the comments about not missing playing in places like Laramie. I
remember LaVell Edwards once said that "Laramie isn't the end of the
world but you can see it from there." I haven't heard complaints from
either BYU or Utah about their new travel destinations. Apparently sports
writers who travel with the teams don't mind the change either.
" Nebraska, UCLA, Michigan, Arizona, Arizona State, Wisconsin, Washington
State, Cincinnati, Southern Miss, USC and Stanford. "Southern
Miss definitely doesn't belong on this list. The Golden Eagles are 1-23
over the past two seasons and they compete in C-USA