Its amusing, in a sad sort of way, to read the rationalizations of the
supporters of this Rainbow group and the excuses made for their breaking local
laws. Such support is usually done by those who have identified themselves as
liberals in comments to previous articles. As such, support for this Rainbow
group was to be expected from them... regardless of whatever they did. Some
people just like to take contrary, anti-establishment stances.It's somewhat ironic to read the supportive comments toward the Rainbow
group from people outside the state who have little, if any, knowledge of or
interest in the area being used (and often abused) by this group. Your attitude
would probably be a lot different in your own backyard.@ Bill
McGee:Not a single comment to this article claims this group
doesn't have a Constitutional right to assemble. So why take such a
high-horse stance and make such unsubstantiated accusations?People
also have the right to comment and voice their opinions regarding the actions of
others... especially when laws are being broken. So why are you and a few others
taking a subversive attitude towards those who do?
Where do you people learn math? And why the labeling or correlation about
political leaning. Somebody please inform me what swallow, shurtlef, or lee said
about this issue. The article did not address what rights RF have or don't
have. The focus is the drain on the jail and the sheriff's department. 40
out of 5900 is actually 0.7% which although it is similar to the national
incarceration average, the average for Utah as a whole (and noted in a previous
post) is less than 0.25% so the point is that this group has an incarceration
rate more than double, probably more like triple, the average for the state.
For a group that promotes peace and love, there doesn't seem to
be a whole lot of either being perpetuated. I don't hate them, nor care if
they want to congregate. It doesn't sound like a group with whom I would
want to affiliate. I only request that the be respectful and make their mothers
I hate to say it, but it seems like this happens every year. I understand that
the vast majority are peaceful law-abiding citizens, but you don't drop
20,000 people into a small community and not have some very dangerous characters
tag along for the ride. That's the problem with counter-cultures types,
they see any kind of structure as the enemy.
Dan Taylor: "I just found this on Wilkipedia [sic]."Dan that
big warning with orange exclamation point at the top of the Wikipedia page:
"This article appears to be written like an advertisement," could mean
you need to look at some other sources for reliable information.Perhaps you could start with the residents of Heber City. For example, how
would the attitude of the Forest Service or law enforcement explain why these
people have gone into stores and urinated on the merchandise in hopes that they
can dumpster dive after has been thrown away? Are you kidding me??? This cannot
have really happened!!! If the source for this was not the merchant, I would not
have believed it.Yes, "some attitudes need to change
somewhere." Footnote: Destruction of merchandise might not bring
"a big economic boom to the area." I could be wrong, but I just
don't see how it helps the local economy.Just sayin'.
I wonder if the police investigated the residents of Wasatch County with the
same vigilance they're watching the Rainbow Family if the jails would be
much fuller on a regular basis.
If a mess is being left..That is when law enforcement should start writing
tickets. Otherwise if it is a no fee area..That is what it is...Freedom of choice is demanded/protected by law, by its citizens in a true
democracy. We are not a true democracy at this time. Citizen
equality under all laws is broken and we don't try to fix it either.Corporate bribery and Slavery-based drug laws violate every citizen's
rights. And you bunch of instinct driven sheep: Don't have any
complaints over our worst problem.Violated Equality is our country's
current unfixed disgrace to human rights and we are blinded to prevent actions
that would correct our pitiful state of affairs... We will destroy
ourselves if we don't protect citizen rights as being equal to one another.
Satan blocks corrections to our status quo operations.Truth from a
servant of our Lord.
What I get from all these stories is that the Deseret News really doesn't
like the Rainbow Family.
I have been with the scouts and other youth groups and have not experienced
murder or any type of violation of the law. The land has been respected. If a
mistake were made, the organization paid. This is like back to the
'60's and the immature youth movement. All the criticism of these
comments and others will make no difference since they will not be read by those
who are in the camp and who either don't care or can't read.
Last I checked, these folks are Americans, with the right to assemble, the right
to use public lands, and the right to freely associate. Taxing local resources
is IRRELEVANT to those rights. That's the way it works - even if you
don't like their politics or their lifestyles, and regardless of what
percentage of them break the law. Because the rest of them are innocent until
proven otherwise. Period. Many here will crow about their rights in
other forums - like when someone suggests we regulate guns - but they are sure
willing to curtail others' constitutional rights when they don't like
the way someone looks or behaves. There is a word for that.
I just found this on Wilkipedia. It is interesting to consider why there are so
many problems with this group in Utah. At the California National
Gathering in 2004, in Modoc County, after public health officials reported
speaking with their counterparts in Utah, opted to take preventive measures
apart from law enforcement, which the Utah individuals found to be the source of
many of the problems encountered at their event. The Public Health Department
reported that the Forest Service officers were observed being confrontational
and antagonistic towards the Rainbows at the Gathering site, which "did not
facilitate a cooperative response from the Rainbows," the report states.
"The explanation that was given is that this was an illegal gathering
because no permit had been signed. However, even after the permit had been
signed, this attitude was unchanged."Everything else the
article said was favorable towards the group and their cleanup efforts being
graded an "A".Maybe some attitudes need to change somewhere.
These comments are a perfect example of why I hate politics. Party labels have
become strongest of all stereotypes. Each side uses the labels with disgust for
the other side. In these few comments, we've seen "far
right wing", "conservative", and "tea party" referred to
those who oppose this group. Just out of curiosity, did the people who opposed
this group in the comments of the last article self-identify as these labels?Well, I'm none of those. And I think there's no reason this
group needs to gather in this kind of size on a town that obviously can't
handle it. I think they like the idea of holding this in a place where it will
be particularly difficult for their people to be regulated. How about working
with a town that can handle them instead of holding in spite of some small town?
That would completely change everyone's perceptions of this group.
Either we sustain the laws and obey them or we don't. If we DO, we'll
have a stable society. If we DO NOT our society will become unstable. When a
group, that is known to break the laws, gathers, we have a responsibility to
require the police to do their job to arrest any law breaker. There should be
adequate policemen to patrol those campsites, day and night. Those who break
the law should be arrested and removed from the area. If we had
people in our own neighborhoods who broke the law, you can bet that people would
call the police.If citizens will not support the enforcement of law,
those citizens have abdicated their responsibility. It is the people who are in
charge of government. Government serves the people. Laws reflect the desires
of the people. Government is duty-bound to enforce laws.
Just imagine if the Rainbow Family were supporters of the Tea Party and carried
around conservative signs. The mass media would flood the area and cover every
incident of misbehavior (the media might outnumber the RF crowd). Arrests would
be pasted on the front page of the NYT. Obama would find ways to sic the IRS on
I feel this article is poorly written because it doesn't explain at all
what this group is or stands for or why they are even organizing together.
Please tell the whole story and don't assume people from outside Utah know
about groups that go on in your state. Give us a little background please.
Maybe the people in Heber need to take a lesson from West Virginians. Back in
the early 70's when the Hell's Angels came into town making trouble,
they got run out of town and have never returned!
Well FT people tend not to like people who commit crimes at rates 300% higher
than the norm and cost taxpayers money for no valid reason. Church groups and
boy scouts tend to leave the premises better than they found them and don't
require inordinate police presence or the swelling of inmate populations. When
being "different" amounts to lawlessness and being uncivilized people
have a right to object.
I've said before, freedom of movement in this country is something that
citizens should have to pay for, especially if they belong to a different class
or subgroup than me. There are no values but economic ones that really matter.
Don't even mention diversity, because we're number one.
A judge places offenders on probation, a fine, and orders them not to use drugs
or associate with drug users. Really. What are the chances of that happening.
These offenders are all out of state. Does anyone in their right mind believe
they have any intentions of complying with these conditions. I would be shocked
if they collect one dollar in fines. There is no way these conditions will
ever be enforced. Is there anyway we can prevent this travesty from happening
again. Who authorized a permit for a group this large to use public lands.
What a travesty.
"They hold themselves out that this event is going to bring a big economic
boom to the area," he said. "We haven't seen that, at least not
yet."The crickets said the same thing to the pioneers. If only we had some giant seagulls...Economic boom??? Honestly.
Did anyone really believe that? And why do these people choose Heber
City, Utah? They can go get baked legally in Colorado!
Obviously, Rainbow Family visitors are getting more scrutiny from law
enforcement than 'normal' Utahans. That in itself may explain a
higher, but still low arrest rate for them. Assuming the Rainbow community
eats, bathes and uses the bathroom, they will spend several times the $10 per
person county authorities say they are costing law enforcement. The spending
will be on necessities, not souvenirs.
@intervention Conservatives, liberals, libertarians, communists, et al have
nothing to do with obeying or breaking the law nor this group of people, so I
fail to understand why you are injecting politics, or more accurately, labels
into this at all. It is totally irrelevant and illogical.@FT Of
course they have "as much right" to these lands, as long as they are
obeying the law. Yes, and I will admit that I do not like at all (I do not
"hate" them as you say) criminals, because as you say, they are not like
me nor most of the people I know. As far as the law abiding members of this
group, I have no problem with. However, this group is leader-less, which makes
that a big problem as far as behavior. I cannot believe that you or anyone would
also honestly love to have a problematic group such as them--one with a proven
track record--move into your neighborhood.
Seems like just last week, we were hearing from the tea party crowd that federal
officials had no power to enforce the laws, and that all authority lay with
county sheriffs.Now, it's forest service rangers working
overtime to assist the county deputies, and the tea party folks seem awfully
There is a difference between something you CAN do and something you SHOULD
do.Rainbow Family CAN gather at these gatherings, I don't want
to take that ability away from them, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD.I CAN stand on my porch and make fun of handicapped kids that go by. But
that doesn't mean I SHOULD.Not everything needs to be
legislated. At some point we need to take responsibility of our lives and look
at ourselves to see what kind of impact we are having on those around us. Am I
building up the community? Or am I tearing it down?So, my criticism
of the Rainbow Family is not to say they CANNOT gather, but that they SHOULD NOT
gather because wherever they go, there is chaos. They need to stop being so
The only difference FT is that the only groups don't waste tax payer money,
get locked up, vandalize cabins, get numerous traffic citations, make the state
employee/ move more police to the area, clean up after themselves, don't
run around naked etc.C'mon FT. This is a drain.
Yes, as FT says, they have as much right to our public lands as all those Boy
Scouts, church groups, and weekend warriors do. They also have the
responsibility to obey the laws, pay the fees, and get the proper permits, just
like all those Boy Scouts, church groups, and weekend warriors do.
I do believe these are Americans and have as much right to our public lands as
all those boy scout, church groups and weekend warriors do. Seems so many
posters here just love to hate on anybody who's not like them.
Those should be Swallow and court, sorry
given conservatives recent record in Utah with shertliff and sallow looking at
serious federal charges, Ken Ivory just paying a massive out of curt settlement
with the EPA and Mike Lee now facing investigation for illegal campaign
contributions you would think conservatives would be a little more shy about
throwing stones at other glass houses.
hey lets say we all went to a BYU football game. 66,000 the stadium holds.Its OK. The police have to haul off to jail 447 people on a Saturday
afternoon, not counting ten times the count in warnings. So not 5 rowdy guys
but 447.Time to pack up Rainbows
I hope people will continue to rationalize how great of a deal this gathering
is... I need a good laugh!My best thoughts and wishes go
out to the 'regular people' in that area! I can honestly say...
I'm not jealous of you!
@Tolstoy"40 represent point six percent, less then one percent of the
5900 people the article sates are currently on attendannce, significant?"It is when we consider it's been what... a week? That's a 2000
arrest per year pace (obviously it wouldn't be 2000 out of 5900 since
there'd be repeats).
I just love those who like to quote math out of context. Here's some more
math: compared to the population of Wasatch County (approx. 26,437 in 2013
est.), the other 60 occupying jail represents .2% of the population. So this
group has an incarceration rate THREE TIMES the general populace. And this group
is about "love" and "peace?" They have a different definition.
And it sounds like more would be in jail if they had room. And
that's just those they've jailed. The sheriff's department is
obviously maxed out responding to other complaints and incidents that are taxing
his department.I really do not understand those who want to defend
@variedhuethat may well have been the pint of the article but clearly was
not the point Nan was making and tolstoy responded too. A do not think a user
fee is unreasonable, however the question is would anyone else using that same
space be charged a fee? the point being these people should not be unfairly
targeted or demonized.
40 have been caught. Just because they aren't in jail doesn't mean
they are "conducting themselves well."
To Tolstoy:Yeah, but that is 40 more than would have been in jail
had the RF not come to the area. Knowing the history, the county should have set
up some stringent rules, advising the group they would be aggressive in making
sure they were followed, and if not, the group would be escorted out of the
county, with the assistance of the UHP or even the UNG, if necessary. Perhaps
they would have found a different place to go. I think jurisdictions need to be
wary of these types of groups. It appears they may be moving from place to place
throughout the year. Maybe they are the modern Gypsies of the US/Canada! Just
you say .6 percent and others say 40% as in the Rainbows are taking 40% of the
jail space. The point of the article was that resources are being strained
beyond normal which is true. Without the rainbows the jail would have plenty of
space. Also, when I go camping with family I have to pay a fee for the camping
spot. It each of the attendees would pay say $15 or $20 each then the problem
might be minimized.
@nan nw40 represent point six percent, less then one percent of the 5900
people the article sates are currently on attendannce, significant?
So 40 out of the current 5900 visitors are currently in jail. That means over
99.8% of the visitors are apparently conducting themselves well. Not hardly the
threat portrayed by the press and right wing extremists.
And weren't people posting comments about residents being paranoid and
judgmental after a previous article expressing concern about the impact that
these Rainbow gatherings have on the area. Forty in jail seems significant to
It's okay..because I'm sure the Rainbow Family will bolster the local
economy with all of the retail and restaurant purchases they'll be