Assault over saved seats at Mormon chapel leads to jail sentence

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  • hilary nottingham, 00
    July 29, 2014 6:41 a.m.

    Wish families were more relaxed in the spirit at church sometimes. They will, cling together and sit in the same place week after week after week, circulate, sit with other members, some of 'em dont have anyone else in the family in church. I usually sit with a friend now being the only member of my family attending church, but if I were ever alone I would generally sit at the back, but, if seats are taken just park your bum anywhere for heavens sake!

  • Imprimis Billings, MT
    July 1, 2014 1:41 p.m.

    Since when did our happiness depend on all of our family/friends sitting in the same close proximity? This has become a poor cultural tradition where false rights and manufactured needs have come to be expected. Our happiness should be that famliy and friends are in attendance at all, our collective focus should be on the content of the meeting, and our energy spent on our own reverence. Touching legs shouldn't matter; mature families should be able to be apart for that short time and not have it bother them. And of course visiting can and should wait until after the meeting. If being in whisper-in-your-ear closeness matters this much, there are bigger problems with which to be concerned.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    July 1, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    I've heard of "pew-gilism", but this is ridiculous!

  • Elsleuith Eagle Mountain, UT
    June 30, 2014 3:17 p.m.

    This man needs Matthew 5:44

    But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    In AA this is called contrary action.

    When we take contrary action we change roles. Instead of being acted upon, we act. That is what Jesus Christ did. Every person he encountered, he viewed as a person he could help and he did so in the moment. When missionaries begin serving in the mission field they are self-centered, but before too long, as they serve, they find they love the people they are serving. The reason: Christ-like service brings mercy into our hearts. Can you imagine an irritated, upset, angry or vengeful missionary? It rarely happens because their hearts are changed and they think about people in a different way. They also act accordingly.

  • JonathanPDX Portland, Oregon
    June 30, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    I can just see a certain someone up there doing a facepalm...

  • silverfox Clearlake Oaks, CA
    June 30, 2014 7:37 a.m.

    This is kind of one sided here. Yes, for sure, you should not have been saving seats in the first place. That is where the problem began. But we have to be willing to forgive others, even though they make stupid mistakes. We can not react in anger and that is why Brother Dodge must pay for what he did.

  • KJR Alpine, UT
    June 30, 2014 12:09 a.m.

    After six decades, the "saving seats" phenomenon is still a mystery to me. When my family visited another ward to hear a speaker or be with family, we always made it a point to sit in areas that were unlikely to be someone else's regular spot - generally near the back or in the overflow. They know we are there, so it doesn't matter where we sit. In my home ward we have on occasion, arrived to find the first 10 rows covered with sweaters, coats, and even our own hymnbooks to save places. What is the point? Is it to emphasize the importance of the departing or returning missionary by a showing of block solidarity? Making your presence clear by displacing the "regulars?" Do you really need to see or hear better? In one case we thought we had a clear spot, but were advised that the hymnbook (or own ward's) in the middle of the row was reserving the entire row so could we please move. We did. My wife, the chorister, walked from the overflow to the front to lead the music. I still don't get it . . .

  • mauister Wailuku, HI
    June 29, 2014 8:59 p.m.

    What would Jesus have done? Good question. My understanding of the Word is that Jesus went to church once as an adult and turned over a lot of tables because he wasn't very happy. His behavior might have risen to a misdemeanor under current Utah law.

  • bigv56 Cottonwood, CA
    June 28, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    I'm pretty sure the Zoramites had their own precious pres also. That is atypical tradition.

  • MormonMom210 OVIEDO, FL
    June 28, 2014 7:52 p.m.

    In our ward we support the deaf community with ASL interpreters. We reserve the first few rows on the left hand side for the deaf and their families. We also have a high population of wheel-chair bound and we reserve the middle first two rows for them and their families. We use signs every week on those pews but still have a number of people who sit there anyway, they just push the signs out of the way. It's maddening!!! Those rows are made for wheel-chairs. Funny the same kind of rows exist in the middle back two rows, nobody seems to fight over them. Since when did we not take into account the handicapped?

  • Frank Fourth New York, NY
    June 28, 2014 4:11 p.m.

    Alas, 2 bits, its the duty of the driver to yield to pedestrians. This wasn't a New York City street.

  • snickerdoodle Idaho Falls, ID
    June 28, 2014 1:26 p.m.

    It depends how the seat saving is done. Some people get ignorant about it. Saving seats right next to you for immediate family members? O.K. But I've seen people save several entire rows so they can come in late & have "good" seats while those were early are in the back. Our leadership finally had to ask members to stop seat-saving.

    Quick story: As a young single adult, I began attending a family ward after moving. My 1st week there, I came early & was feeling very alone & self-conscious. I sat in a short bench towards the front, on the side. I'd been sitting there ~5-10 minutes when a family came in. They stood next to the bench for a few seconds, then the mother leaned in & said, "You're sitting in our bench. Would you move?" NO welcome, NO introduction...just "would you move?" I moved, but was deeply hurt & offended. I continued to attend that ward, but someone with a weak testimony might never have come back. As disciples of Jesus Christ, we must show Christlike love for everyone, put ourselves in their shoes, & treat them the way WE want to be treated.

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    June 28, 2014 8:16 a.m.

    sunamn, IN

    "Eliyahu wrote: It is interesting to note that the more missionaries sent out the small the ratio to missionary to convert Maybe instead of focusing so much on sending out people to Proselyte but instead be a christ like people and should reconsider what Jesus taught:"

    I'm sorry, but I wrote nothing of the kind. Please pay better attention to the authors to whom you attribute citations.

  • deniron Effurun/Nigeria, 00
    June 28, 2014 3:07 a.m.

    That altitude of having a permanent seat and contending for it is not a pattern in the Lord's church. we all have to respect one another and humble ourselves anywhere we found ours. How do you consider this- sitting on the floor as others sit on seat?

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    June 27, 2014 10:49 p.m.

    This is example #1 why the Church asks that wards not have special mission homecoming or farewall meetings.

  • mrjj69 bountiful, UT
    June 27, 2014 9:43 p.m.

    sounds like somebody doesn't understand the purpose of going to church?

  • Chris Degn Salt Lake City, UT
    June 27, 2014 7:31 p.m.

    Luke 11:43 came to my mind...

    "Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets."

    Sad to see this happen in ANY church. Not exactly an example of "love your neighbor as you love yourself." Let us learn from this folks!!!

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    June 27, 2014 4:22 p.m.

    Sheeeesh. Really? Really????????????????

  • CylonesRus sunamn, IN
    June 27, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    Eliyahu wrote: It is interesting to note that the more missionaries sent out the small the ratio to missionary to convert Maybe instead of focusing so much on sending out people to Proselyte but instead be a christ like people and should reconsider what Jesus taught:

    Matthew 5:45-45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
    Luke 6:31-33
    And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
    Matthew 24.12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold

  • Gram Cracker Price, UT
    June 27, 2014 1:25 p.m.

    He who wants a certain seat in church should be there early enough to sit in it.

    If others want to be seated by him, they also should be there early enough to sit with him.

    Saving seats for stragglers is always bad form.

    Get there early enough, with all your posse, and find your seat and sit in it.

    If someone is already in your seat, you didn't get there early enough to claim it.

    Then it ain't your seat.

  • CylonesRus sunamn, IN
    June 27, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    You know it bad when the the preacher/minister has to write an epistle concern seating manners in church

  • K Mchenry, IL
    June 27, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    Christ would not care where he was seated. It is clear in scriptures that it makes no difference where a person is seated. If anything we should fight to be in an overflow section. Someone unfamiliar should be sitting in the back. Or perhaps a single pew could be marked for the use of the blessing folks and one pew for the use of the missionary family? The family can decide who needs to be in the pew up close and who needs to fend for themself.

    If there is not enough space in the pews there won't be enough space in the parking lot.

  • Harrison Bergeron Holladay , UT
    June 27, 2014 12:41 p.m.

    Well, this story is obviously troubling. It evokes a 'money changers in the temple' response. And I was going to cast a printed stone at Mr. Dodge.

    But then, I wondered how many times I have walked out of Church and done something contrary to what I was just taught. If I had to serve thirty days in jail for each offense, it might be a while before I got back to Church. Worse yet, if it was published in the newspaper?

    I cannot even begin to imagine the humiliation. I would rather be his Tango partner and escape with a bloody nose and avoid all of the notoriety.

  • Mormonmama0106 Phoenix, AZ
    June 27, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    Seriously? Fighting over seats? In church?! At a baby blessing and missionary farewell, of all things?

    Sounds like at least two people in this story need to work harder at cultivating the Spirit!

  • John Locke Ivins, , UT
    June 27, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    In one stake in California, in which my family was located, before conference started, the Stake Presidency announced that there was to be "no saving of seats." This lasted for one more stake conference...after that, it was ignored again.

    Seats should not be saved, but there are circumstances in which that should be tolerated; that
    is : (1) when a baby is blessed, (2) at a missionary farewell, or return from his/her mission.

    In these instances, visitors should always be allowed to come and sit wherever they wish; many will be coming late because they are coming from far distances.

    As members of the Church, as one poster has said, we should always remember Christ and emulate him; and we all know that he would not advocate violence in the house of the lord. The ward member "should have known," even if it were announced "no saving of seats," that there will always be visitors on such days.

    Invite them to sit where they wish and welcome them is easy enough to give up "your pew" for another, for one day. Christ would have done more than that.

  • gittalopctbi Glendale, AZ
    June 27, 2014 11:01 a.m.

    @Eliyahu @The Scientist It is not about not wanting to sit with others, it is about wanting to sit with family. What's wrong with that? The very essence of going to church is about family and being with family. Please do not interpret wanting to sit with family as being exclusionary because it isn't.

  • Pittakos Lindon, UT
    June 27, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee:
    Never sit in someone else's pew unless you intend to be offensive and if you do, be not surprised when you are plucked out and cast away.

    June 27, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    At least it took until page three of the comments for someone (Scientist) to twist this into an attack on the LDS Church in general.

    This is simply about two self-absorbed people worrying about themselves and not being charitable. The world is full of them, including the LDS Church. Indicting a church because of the actions of two members is disengenuous...

    I believe Elder Hales said: "Christ had a perfect Church until He let all of us in"....

  • neece Logan, UT
    June 27, 2014 8:48 a.m.

    I think this whole thing is ridiculous and blown wayyyy out of context. So what if you were saving seats, One man sitting with them shouldn't have made that big of a difference. He should have just let him sit there... I agree with the statement, "want a seat? come early." and on the other hand, Dodge should have seen that there were going to be a lot of family there, Hello???? a blessing and a farewell!!! Dodge could have moved just this one time. I think Dodge instigated it, but instead of apologizing and making the day better he got violent there is NEVER a reason to get that angry especially over a seat and especially in the Lord's house...then again instead of just letting it be and going home what he now had to try and run him over? I think he got off light. He definitely has an anger issue that needs to be treated. In My opinion they BOTH need to repent.

  • Dante Salt Lake City, UT
    June 27, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    This story isn't about saving seats in Church. It's about assault. The crime would have been the same if the dispute had arisen from any other cause. Was this the dispute I read about months ago in which the two men were the current and former husbands of the same woman? If so, that's a relevant detail.

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    June 27, 2014 8:20 a.m.

    Eliyahu, as an "indider," I can tell you that seat-saving is usually a very benign, virtually unnoticed fact of every Sunday. With my family of six, we usually take two cars, as I go to an early meeting and my son comes along to prep the sacrament. My father-in-law is already there, so he puts down a couple of books and a briefcase to block off half a pew for us because, you know, we like each other and would kinda like to sit together. If we have family in town, we may need a little more space, because I don't feel like telling the cousins from Costa Rica and/or Colorado they have to sit somewhere else.

    Frankly, I doubt this is uniquely an LDS phenomenon, and neither are occasional fights over petty stuff like this. When I say "occasional," I really mean "ultra-rare."

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    June 27, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    Eliyahu wrote:

    "Saving rows of seats in church seems particularly inappropriate to this outsider. Are LDS congregations so insular and unfriendly that no one wants to mix with anyone not a part of their immediate or extended family?"


  • Bdamajd Centerville, UT
    June 27, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    I wonder if those whom the seats were being saved for would have wanted the seat savers to literally fight for them. I was asked by my (former) girlfriend to save seats on the street for a fourth of July parade, where we planned to spend the night. My girlfriend went to get something to eat. Another (very nice) couple asked if they could have part of the space I was asked to save. There was plenty of room for all of us and so of course I said "sure". When my former girl friend returned, she was so angry that I had chosen to share the seats, that she mad a huge scene and she ended up leaving. To this day, I don't see what was so important about that space that would cause her to destroy a relationship, embarrass me and herself and all in front of her 2 children and my son. Needless to say, I am so glad I didn't marry her. If seats to ANYTHING except the Celestial Kingdom are that important to someone, there is a chance their priorities may be just a little askew. Just sayin'. :)

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    June 27, 2014 7:56 a.m.

    Remember Mr. Spooner: "Mardon me, Padam, but you seem to be occupewing my pie."

  • Lilalips Attleboro, MA
    June 27, 2014 7:27 a.m.

    Ahh, I know why I LOVE the youth programs. I get to see little kids act like kids. Adults act like kids too but they can't pull it off the same way!

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    June 27, 2014 6:42 a.m.

    Saving rows of seats in church seems particularly inappropriate to this outsider. Are LDS congregations so insular and unfriendly that no one wants to mix with anyone not a part of their immediate or extended family? I would have viewed this as an opportunity to meet someone new and, perhaps, to make a new friend. In any case, getting territorial about seats that you don't even own looks a lot more like something my half-witted little terrier would do rather than the act of a mature adult.

  • mattwend IDAHO FALLS, ID
    June 27, 2014 6:12 a.m.

    I am surprised at the opposition to saving rows of seats. When families come for special occasions, it is reasonable to want to sit together. I have 6 siblings and some of them have 7 or 8 children. Bring in grandparents and so forth and the space required is large. When my children were little it was a great blessing to have seats saved. It wasnt an everyday thing, only for special occasions. The reality is no wrong was done until someone let anger enter in. I have been annoyed by seat saving before when the people marked off their rows after the adult stake conference meeting for the next day. Oh well! It isn't worth fighting over!

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    June 27, 2014 6:01 a.m.

    The Devine Right. As a former police officer from Utah, the most dangerous day of the week is the Sunday morning rush hour to church. My all time best speeding ticket at 100 mph was a husband and wife going to work at the temple early in the morning.

  • ahfclass Orem, UT
    June 27, 2014 12:22 a.m.

    There was a family that, on our first day in our new ward, "politely" told us we were sitting in their seats, which was okay for this first week as we didn't know it was theirs. They were confident that by next week we would have it figured out. I wondered what an investigator would have thought of that; or a visiting general authority, which it turns out we frequently had in that ward.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    June 27, 2014 12:10 a.m.

    This sounds like an exciting ward to visit on Sunday. Something like WWF or MMA on Sunday. Sounds like the type of ward that welcomes all to attend, just don't sit on my row.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    June 27, 2014 12:09 a.m.

    I've never used this phrase in a post before and have kept it close to me, but I know that it applies here. Here goes. Ahem. Oh my heck, no way!

  • intervention slc, UT
    June 27, 2014 12:01 a.m.

    @ 2 bits & Navel Vet: If only there were some place where a non-biased party could listen to both sides tell their side of the story and then make a determination of fault...

    Oh, wait - there is. It is called a Court of Law - and this guy decided, based on the facts of the situation he was involved in that there was so much evidence against him it was better to make a plea deal admitting his fault.

    Maybe, just maybe, this turned out the way it did for a reason?

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    June 26, 2014 11:56 p.m.

    Sounds like out of control behavior on both sides. It takes two.

    That said, we drive over 2 1/2 hours to our stake meetings and, even if you get there early, people will have filled the entire chapel with place markers. So those who travel have to sit back in the gym while the "locals" arrive at the last minute, with front row seats.

    Reminds me of a phrase I heard once: "meaner than a church lady."

    That's not to demean religious women, but I think that it points out that people who should know better, when they are rude, are more rude than those who are "innocently" unkind.

    Sure ruined those special days for the families. What a send off on your mission. On the other hand, might make leaving easier.

  • mooster meridian, ID
    June 26, 2014 11:02 p.m.

    No way these could have been front row seats. These had to be back row seat to be worth fighting for.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 26, 2014 10:42 p.m.

    It's a high stress world that we live in... Hard to turn it off on Sundays...

  • OlderGreg USA, CA
    June 26, 2014 10:13 p.m.

    Some churches have you buy your pew, thereby possibly giving you some sense of ownership. I did not know that habit/ homesteading of the chapel was part of the LDS culture. Does that apply to the parking lot, also?

  • KSUBYU Las Vegas, NV
    June 26, 2014 10:07 p.m.

    It may not had been one sided but when one of the people ends up on the hood of the car, that is going beyond a two sided argument. Its a worship service besides how can someone be this upset over a seat?

  • happyhappyhappy Tucson, AZ
    June 26, 2014 9:53 p.m.

    How is a farewell and a baby blessing happening on the same day? Blessings should take place on Fast Sunday's per the handbook. Either way, what a lively ward!!

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    June 26, 2014 9:20 p.m.

    I love how many people here are downplaying what happened as somehow being the fault of the person saving seats. Yes, it is annoying, but that is where it ends for most people. Most normal people don't get in a fight, verbal or physical, at church over a seat. That is not just childish, it is ridiculous.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    June 26, 2014 8:36 p.m.


  • Commenter88 Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 26, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    This is an easy problem to solve. You can save seats next to you for family, but you can't save seats in front of you or behind you in a separate pew. This seems so obvious but in my ward it is typical to see many complete rows of pews unoccupied but saved with personal items. I get to church 10 minutes early and there are no seats left. Then those whose seats are saved show up late. It is so inconsiderate.

  • Catlady79 Magna, Ut, UT
    June 26, 2014 8:00 p.m.

    "As I have love you love one another" I keep hearing that hymn when I read this article...face palm*

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 26, 2014 6:54 p.m.

    Would have been better if someone had:

    Turned the other check,
    given the seats, their coat and the cloak,
    blessed and prayed for those who mis-use you.

    On the other hand --
    This one will go down as a Sunday School, Seminary and FHE example for the ages...

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    June 26, 2014 6:38 p.m.

    Sounds like the visitors sat is his regular spot. That can be a little (unreasonably) annoying, but this reaction was over the top to say the least. It'a a church, men, it's not a sporting event or a concert.

  • Bill Fitz LAKE BLUFF, IL
    June 26, 2014 6:35 p.m.

    Imperfect latter day saints, uh oh the antis will have a field day with this one

  • Sore loser tampa, fl
    June 26, 2014 6:25 p.m.

    This is another instance where people just make up the rules as they go along. Pres Kimball's Teachings of the Presidents of the Church manual states that you come early, move to the front, listen to the prelude music and prepare to take the Sacrament.

    I doubt there is a Church policy for saving seats. If you want to sit together, get to Church early together.

    Is it possible that Sacrament Mtg is sometimes like an episode of "Who's Got Talent" instead of an effort to remember the baptism promises made at baptism?

    More than likely if the bishopric of this ward was on top of their game, they would have been seated in their places on the stand, would have seen the issue, and would have performed an intervention, issues resolved.

    But no one cares, people just do what they want.

  • ThornBirds St.George, Utah
    June 26, 2014 5:54 p.m.

    A fight?
    Over seats?
    Ok, maybe at an expensive concert?
    At Church?
    Questionable behavior?
    Best method to meet and greet investigators or new converts who may have been attending that day?

  • Spoc Ogden, UT
    June 26, 2014 5:46 p.m.

    What would Jesus have done?

    Would he have been saving seats in the first place?

    Would he have gotten angry or confrontational in the second place?

    Would he have resorted to fisticuffs in the third place?

    Would he have tried to keep him from leaving in the fourth place by blocking his car till the police arrived?

    Would he have pressed charges in the fifth place?

    (Are they both taking fifth place in a two man race?)

    Or would he have hugged the man, invited him to sit with his family, and enjoyed the spirit of the occasion and taught a wonderful lesson in kindness and compassion?

    Go, therefore, and do likewise.

    June 26, 2014 5:24 p.m.

    Problem: Can't find enough adequate seating.

    Solution: Come early.

  • Hey It's Me Salt Lake City, UT
    June 26, 2014 5:24 p.m.

    very clever bbj! Love the humor.

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    June 26, 2014 5:08 p.m.

    The whole seat saving thing is beyond silly. It should be first come first serve. No seat saving. I too think the plaintiff probably stirred things up.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 26, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    2 bits:

    That was my assessment of the situation as well. It sounded to me like the guy that got assaulted both initiated the altercation, and tried to keep it going afterward.

    Frank Fourth:

    One good way to not end up on the hood of someone's car is to not stand in front of it when it's in motion.

  • Frank Fourth New York, NY
    June 26, 2014 3:55 p.m.

    2 bits, one way to end up on the hood of someone's car is to have the car driven into you.

  • El Chango Supremo Rexburg, ID
    June 26, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    This has got to be the best story ever!

  • bbj United Kingdom, 00
    June 26, 2014 3:41 p.m.

    Well, we do believe in the laying on of hands.

  • Screenusnomus USA, CA
    June 26, 2014 3:33 p.m.

    "Thou shalt not make a stink in thy pew." — I know I read that somewheres........

  • K Mchenry, IL
    June 26, 2014 3:21 p.m.

    Bad scheduling. A blessing and it was a send off or homecoming at the same time. Does everyone need to be there? Do they need to be on the same day?

  • Go West Taylorsville, UT
    June 26, 2014 3:05 p.m. pet peeve is that the back row is packed, and everyone else just sits on the edges of the pews. That leaves the center completely empty and wasted space. The front row is mostly empty, but when you have little kids, you don't want them to have extra room to play. Mine would hang onto the front of the pulpit and do chin ups if given the chance. And I really don't like to climb over people to get to the empty space. If only people would leave one side of the middle benches open and fill up one bench before commencing to fill up another bench. It's more considerate and welcoming. Thank you.

  • Left Field Cocoa Beach, FL
    June 26, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    In my father's house there are many seat saving necessary.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    June 26, 2014 2:16 p.m.

    I somehow feel we, the faithful Des News readers, are missing the rest of the story This was a national news afterall. Did the Deseret News Staff interview the plaintiff and the defendant? I hope the SL Trib doesn't scoop the DN on this Human Interest story.

  • Another Perspective Bountiful, UT
    June 26, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    From a Tribune article on this I pictured this as one man trying to save 3 rows of seats in a crowded chapel which would be bad form if that is true. From this article I don't get a that picture. The only time I see saving seats as okay is if a family or friends are sitting fairly close together and one or more of them haven't arrived yet. It would be not good for someone else to go sit in between them uninvited.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 26, 2014 1:39 p.m.

    #1. I don't think it mattered that he was a Mormon. He was just out of control. People get out of control (even non-mormons).

    #2. It sounds like it wasn't one-sided. Why did the other guy get off free? Sounds like he kept it going. Even ending up on the hood of the old guys car after going in and cleaning up. You don't end up on the hood of somebody's car by accident. He MUST have confronted the guy a second time. I seriously doubt he drove into the building, or up on the sidewalk and caught the guy off guard and scooped him up on the hood of his car. Sounds like the guy confronted him again in the parking lot... kinda got what he was asking for (a fight).

    IMO when you push somebody... you kinda get what you asked for (a fight). If the guy hadn't gone into the parking lot to start it up again and stood in front of the guy's car... nothing would have happened.