@2BitsPounding us with your hatered for Obama and ignoring the Bush
years is sinceless. We are at war because of Bush. The battle fronts change
every month or few. Take your thinking back to 911 and just look at the facts
and the idden hinvestment that took our soldiers to the Middle East. Take a good
look at Dubai and who stood the benefit the most from it. We had the most
distructive attack on American soil and the investigation was finished in a
year???? When will you and your kind ever wake up???
2 bits -- I'm confused. What war did Obama start in Libya, Yemen, Uganda
and Pakistan? I wasn't aware that we had any troops who had died in these
locations. Not quite the same as the Iraq war (which was wrong) or the
Afghanistan war (which I thought was right). I prefer Obama's rational,
cool approach over the hot-headed approach that the Republican hawks seem to
Obama was elected into office in 2009. FYI.
'U.S. Military deaths in Iraq war at 4,485 - AP - Published by the DSNews -
12/20/2011 ‘Since the start of U.S. military operations in
Iraq, 32,226 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according
to the Defense Department's weekly tally.’ The Iraq war,
began in 2003.
@Maverick,Re: "Americans have seen enough republican initiated
wars"...Is America only tired of republican initiated wars? Or
are the tired of ALL wars (even the ones democrats started)???You
seem to see things with such a partisan eye. You only see one... and are
totally blind to the other. I don't think America is as blind as you
think they are.What about Libya (Obama)Yemen (Obama)Uganda (Obama)Pakistan (Obama)Kosovo (Clinton)Somalia
(Clinton) Afghanistan and Sudan (attacked by Clinton before Bush took
office)Are you blind to the wars Democrats started? And pretend
it's only republican started wars America cares about?IF you
can even acknowledge that Democrats start wars too... I would be happy. If you could acknowledge the fact that they actually started MORE wars
than republicans... that would be even better.================Re: " And as long as repubs are out of the White House, we
won't have to worry about more senseless wars"...In light
of the facts... is that REALLY true??
I think Americans have seen enough republican initiated wars.Remember the WMDs excuse?Yeah, um Haliburton will have to come up
with a better one than that. And as long as repubs are out of the White House,
we won't have to worry about more senseless wars. Yet another reason to
I think both Republican and Democrats have learned through sad experience that
the Middle East is not the same as Europe in 1945. We can't go marching in
with troops or dropping bombs when we don't even understand the sectarian
rivalries that exist on the ground.
‘Join the discussion: Does the GOP belong to hawks or doves?’======= Rigged question, with a preconcieved outcome, and
not enough options...My vote? Turkeys!
If Obama wants to bomb anything they are doves, otherwise they are hawks.
2 bits.You caught me making the worst lie that people make about
groups of people. In my mind I meant to say the GOP is mostly
businessmen and business oriented people. You are wrong when you say
that lawyers, doctors and such are not businessmen. And business oriented
people are those who have a beneficial relationship to a business or a
businessman. It's wrong for me to do so but I also include businesswomen
with businessmen. A test that I use is to determine business or
worker, if the product the individual is selling is his own intangible labor or
that of someone else. It's not perfect but it works for me. It
is absolutely probably true that all politicians are businessmen, regardless of
any other names they might have, like republican, democrat, conservative,
liberal etc. etc. etc.
@ 2 bitsOne of the main problems today is that we have too many
ill-informed low information voters. Far too many refuse our church's
counsel in being informed, engaged, and participants in the political process.
Had more voters actually asked questions about the Bush wars then perhaps better
alternatives could have been found?$2+ trillion and nearly 5
thousand dead, and what do we have to show for it?War should always
be the last resort."The Bush wars, like Hitlers wars for
Germany, will be something that will haunt this country for generations both
fiscally and spiritually."Again, low information voters post,
they don't read. No where in this post is Bush compared to Hitler. However, like those previous invasions to "form Europe" the way
he thought it should be formed, the middle-east wars have drained our blood,
treasury, and have bankrupted us morally. The actions of Germany have haunted
them for generations. Likewise, our middle-east wars will continue to haunt us,
our children, and our grandchildren.
Bush is not a Hitler, but I am convinced, based on their lack of self reflection
both Rumsfeld and Cheney would have been perfect for Nazi Germany.
@Ultra Bob,RE: "the GOP is made up of businessmen"...This is a myth/stereotpe. And I don't know why you try so hard to
establish this stereotype based outlook.I am a member of the GOP...
and I'm not a businessman. My Dad is GOP, drove a truck. My brothers are
GOP, no businessmen in the group. I know most of the people at my GOP caucus
meetings... and they are NOT business men. This is a myth.Maybe you
are talking about GOP politicians. Well if you check into it, you will find
that just as many Democrats in Congress were "business men".Mike Lee? Nope, Lawyer. Hatch? Nope.Jim Matheson? Yes. As
much a "businessman" as any GOP. (wikipedia) "Prior to entering
politics, Matheson worked in the energy field, working for several different
companies. He later started his own energy consulting firm.Rand
Paul? Nope, a doctor.McCain? Nope, military and politics, not a
business man. Romney? Yep. So I guess if there's even ONE
business man in the lot... your stereotype stands (in your mind)?Stereotypes aside... the TRUTH is... there are just as many Democrats who are
2 bits. I agree with you and would add:The Iraqi war was
fought to eliminate a rogue business competitor in the oil business. Those
Texas oil men probably had no inkling of the problems of the Iraqi people. And
wouldn't have cared even if they knew. Hitler was created by
the economic oppression imposed on Germany by the winners of WW1. The misery
and anger of the German people would have elected Satin himself if he promised
the rebuilding of the German status. All wars have different
reasons but all wars are fought for economic reasons.
The most truthful statement of loyalty of GOP is that the GOP is made up of
businessmen and depending on the particular area of business determines whether
he is a hawk or dove. War is the most profitable business in the
world and I expect that the majority of GOP are hawks.
@Maverick,If you compare the wars started during the Bush
Administration as "Hitlers wars for Germany".... How about the wars
and the nations we attacked during the Clinton Administration, and the Obama
Administration??? Are you blind to them? Are they like
Hitler's wars? Or are Democrat started wars different?=========Bush only started 2 wars. Obama started at least 4Bush:IraqAfghanistanObama:LibyaYemenUgandaPakistanClinton:- Kosovo/Bosnia- Somalia / Mogadishu, - Afghanistan and Sudan (In response to the 1998
Al-Qaeda bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa, Clinton ordered cruise
missile strikes in Afghanistan and Sudan.Bush is not Hitler.
Clinton is not Hitler. Obama is not Hitler. But each of them attacked other
nations.Seriously folks... we need to get over this "Bush is
Hitler" thing some on the Left STILL have going in their heads... Evil Bush is no different than Obama, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, or Carter for
that matter... they ALL started and conducted wars and military operations
during their administrations.The partisan pretense that it's
only the GOP (in light of actual history) is ridiculous...
I HOPE it doesn't "belong" to EITHER!When one group
"OWNS" your party.. it's a bad thing (Democrats). When one group
owns the party it's bad for everybody.Diversity of opinions and
ideas is needed. Not OWNERSHIP of the party by one group or type of thinking.
I wonder how many hawks would become doves if they or a member of their family
had to go to war?I'm in favor of an amendment which would
require all members of Congress to send at least 1 member of their immediate
family to war. If you want to wage a war then our members of Congress must slap
some skin into the game.Now that's Patriotism!
I never, ever thought I would say this: I agree with Mr. Paul.
The GOP belongs overwhelmingly to hawks, although doves have a strong minority
presence.But what they all have in common is that they are
completely out of touch with reality.
Why label?How about both? How about common sense?When we are directly attacked, we should use the armed forces as they
were intended to do.If not, then we need to stay the heck out of
everyone's business. Our Founding Fathers never intended our armed forces
to be used as policemen, protectors of big oil companies, nor a multi-billion
dollar industry. They were only supposed to be used for our self defense.We need to have a common sense approach to foreign policy. We cannot
place a Democracy in the middle of a country that has been in dispute for
thousands of years. Nor can we continue to throw trillions around while
neglecting our own country.The Bush wars, like Hitlers wars for
Germany, will be something that will haunt this country for generations both
fiscally and spiritually.
The main reason America involves itself in the Middle-East is oil. There are
many humanitarian concerns in Africa and other places we don't involve
ourselves in. No, it's oil. Well, we have recently discovered in places
like Texas more oil and natural gas than there is in all the rest of the the
Middle-East combined. Let's just leave them alone for a while (a few
decades would be nice) and create our own OPEC in the Western Hemisphere along
with all the other oil producing countries, Canada, Mexico, Venesuela, Brazil.
Forget the Mid-East. When terrorists arrive from the Mid East training camps to
attack, as they surely will, we attack the capitals and main cities of the
sponsoring countries with such devastating air power, they will become as
opposed to having terrorist training camps in their country as we are. In the
meantime we can worry about our problems here in America and let the rest of the
world try to grow up and become adults too. We need a big foreign change from
our old cold war thinking.
Depends on what Obama said, or which way the wind is blowing.