Join the discussion: Does the GOP belong to hawks or doves?

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  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    June 27, 2014 5:37 p.m.


    Pounding us with your hatered for Obama and ignoring the Bush years is sinceless. We are at war because of Bush. The battle fronts change every month or few. Take your thinking back to 911 and just look at the facts and the idden hinvestment that took our soldiers to the Middle East. Take a good look at Dubai and who stood the benefit the most from it. We had the most distructive attack on American soil and the investigation was finished in a year????

    When will you and your kind ever wake up???

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    June 26, 2014 11:11 p.m.

    2 bits -- I'm confused. What war did Obama start in Libya, Yemen, Uganda and Pakistan? I wasn't aware that we had any troops who had died in these locations. Not quite the same as the Iraq war (which was wrong) or the Afghanistan war (which I thought was right). I prefer Obama's rational, cool approach over the hot-headed approach that the Republican hawks seem to favor.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 26, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    Obama was elected into office in 2009.


  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 26, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    'U.S. Military deaths in Iraq war at 4,485 - AP - Published by the DSNews - 12/20/2011

    ‘Since the start of U.S. military operations in Iraq, 32,226 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Defense Department's weekly tally.’

    The Iraq war, began in 2003.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 26, 2014 8:58 a.m.


    Re: "Americans have seen enough republican initiated wars"...

    Is America only tired of republican initiated wars? Or are the tired of ALL wars (even the ones democrats started)???

    You seem to see things with such a partisan eye. You only see one... and are totally blind to the other. I don't think America is as blind as you think they are.

    What about
    Libya (Obama)
    Yemen (Obama)
    Uganda (Obama)
    Pakistan (Obama)
    Kosovo (Clinton)
    Somalia (Clinton)
    Afghanistan and Sudan (attacked by Clinton before Bush took office)

    Are you blind to the wars Democrats started? And pretend it's only republican started wars America cares about?

    IF you can even acknowledge that Democrats start wars too... I would be happy.

    If you could acknowledge the fact that they actually started MORE wars than republicans... that would be even better.


    Re: " And as long as repubs are out of the White House, we won't have to worry about more senseless wars"...

    In light of the facts... is that REALLY true??

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 25, 2014 11:20 p.m.

    I think Americans have seen enough republican initiated wars.

    Remember the WMDs excuse?

    Yeah, um Haliburton will have to come up with a better one than that. And as long as repubs are out of the White House, we won't have to worry about more senseless wars. Yet another reason to vote democrat!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    June 25, 2014 9:15 p.m.

    I think both Republican and Democrats have learned through sad experience that the Middle East is not the same as Europe in 1945. We can't go marching in with troops or dropping bombs when we don't even understand the sectarian rivalries that exist on the ground.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 25, 2014 5:38 p.m.

    ‘Join the discussion: Does the GOP belong to hawks or doves?’


    Rigged question, with a preconcieved outcome, and not enough options...
    My vote?


  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    June 25, 2014 3:15 p.m.

    If Obama wants to bomb anything they are doves, otherwise they are hawks. Chicken hawks.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    2 bits.

    You caught me making the worst lie that people make about groups of people.

    In my mind I meant to say the GOP is mostly businessmen and business oriented people.

    You are wrong when you say that lawyers, doctors and such are not businessmen. And business oriented people are those who have a beneficial relationship to a business or a businessman. It's wrong for me to do so but I also include businesswomen with businessmen.

    A test that I use is to determine business or worker, if the product the individual is selling is his own intangible labor or that of someone else. It's not perfect but it works for me.

    It is absolutely probably true that all politicians are businessmen, regardless of any other names they might have, like republican, democrat, conservative, liberal etc. etc. etc.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 25, 2014 2:12 p.m.

    @ 2 bits

    One of the main problems today is that we have too many ill-informed low information voters. Far too many refuse our church's counsel in being informed, engaged, and participants in the political process. Had more voters actually asked questions about the Bush wars then perhaps better alternatives could have been found?

    $2+ trillion and nearly 5 thousand dead, and what do we have to show for it?

    War should always be the last resort.

    "The Bush wars, like Hitlers wars for Germany, will be something that will haunt this country for generations both fiscally and spiritually."

    Again, low information voters post, they don't read. No where in this post is Bush compared to Hitler.

    However, like those previous invasions to "form Europe" the way he thought it should be formed, the middle-east wars have drained our blood, treasury, and have bankrupted us morally. The actions of Germany have haunted them for generations. Likewise, our middle-east wars will continue to haunt us, our children, and our grandchildren.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    Bush is not a Hitler, but I am convinced, based on their lack of self reflection both Rumsfeld and Cheney would have been perfect for Nazi Germany.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 12:05 p.m.

    @Ultra Bob,
    RE: "the GOP is made up of businessmen"...

    This is a myth/stereotpe. And I don't know why you try so hard to establish this stereotype based outlook.

    I am a member of the GOP... and I'm not a businessman. My Dad is GOP, drove a truck. My brothers are GOP, no businessmen in the group. I know most of the people at my GOP caucus meetings... and they are NOT business men. This is a myth.

    Maybe you are talking about GOP politicians. Well if you check into it, you will find that just as many Democrats in Congress were "business men".

    Mike Lee? Nope, Lawyer.
    Hatch? Nope.
    Jim Matheson? Yes. As much a "businessman" as any GOP. (wikipedia) "Prior to entering politics, Matheson worked in the energy field, working for several different companies. He later started his own energy consulting firm.

    Rand Paul? Nope, a doctor.

    McCain? Nope, military and politics, not a business man.

    Romney? Yep. So I guess if there's even ONE business man in the lot... your stereotype stands (in your mind)?

    Stereotypes aside... the TRUTH is... there are just as many Democrats who are business men.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    2 bits.

    I agree with you and would add:

    The Iraqi war was fought to eliminate a rogue business competitor in the oil business. Those Texas oil men probably had no inkling of the problems of the Iraqi people. And wouldn't have cared even if they knew.

    Hitler was created by the economic oppression imposed on Germany by the winners of WW1. The misery and anger of the German people would have elected Satin himself if he promised the rebuilding of the German status.

    All wars have different reasons but all wars are fought for economic reasons.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:57 a.m.

    The most truthful statement of loyalty of GOP is that the GOP is made up of businessmen and depending on the particular area of business determines whether he is a hawk or dove.

    War is the most profitable business in the world and I expect that the majority of GOP are hawks.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:54 a.m.


    If you compare the wars started during the Bush Administration as "Hitlers wars for Germany".... How about the wars and the nations we attacked during the Clinton Administration, and the Obama Administration???

    Are you blind to them? Are they like Hitler's wars? Or are Democrat started wars different?


    Bush only started 2 wars. Obama started at least 4



    - Kosovo/Bosnia
    - Somalia / Mogadishu,
    - Afghanistan and Sudan (In response to the 1998 Al-Qaeda bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa, Clinton ordered cruise missile strikes in Afghanistan and Sudan.

    Bush is not Hitler. Clinton is not Hitler. Obama is not Hitler. But each of them attacked other nations.

    Seriously folks... we need to get over this "Bush is Hitler" thing some on the Left STILL have going in their heads...

    Evil Bush is no different than Obama, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, or Carter for that matter... they ALL started and conducted wars and military operations during their administrations.

    The partisan pretense that it's only the GOP (in light of actual history) is ridiculous...

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    I HOPE it doesn't "belong" to EITHER!

    When one group "OWNS" your party.. it's a bad thing (Democrats). When one group owns the party it's bad for everybody.

    Diversity of opinions and ideas is needed. Not OWNERSHIP of the party by one group or type of thinking.

  • Henderson Orem, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    I wonder how many hawks would become doves if they or a member of their family had to go to war?

    I'm in favor of an amendment which would require all members of Congress to send at least 1 member of their immediate family to war. If you want to wage a war then our members of Congress must slap some skin into the game.

    Now that's Patriotism!

  • An American Living in Germany Wiesbaden, 00
    June 25, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    I never, ever thought I would say this: I agree with Mr. Paul.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    June 25, 2014 8:20 a.m.

    The GOP belongs overwhelmingly to hawks, although doves have a strong minority presence.

    But what they all have in common is that they are completely out of touch with reality.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    Why label?

    How about both?

    How about common sense?

    When we are directly attacked, we should use the armed forces as they were intended to do.

    If not, then we need to stay the heck out of everyone's business. Our Founding Fathers never intended our armed forces to be used as policemen, protectors of big oil companies, nor a multi-billion dollar industry. They were only supposed to be used for our self defense.

    We need to have a common sense approach to foreign policy. We cannot place a Democracy in the middle of a country that has been in dispute for thousands of years. Nor can we continue to throw trillions around while neglecting our own country.

    The Bush wars, like Hitlers wars for Germany, will be something that will haunt this country for generations both fiscally and spiritually.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:17 a.m.

    The main reason America involves itself in the Middle-East is oil. There are many humanitarian concerns in Africa and other places we don't involve ourselves in. No, it's oil. Well, we have recently discovered in places like Texas more oil and natural gas than there is in all the rest of the the Middle-East combined. Let's just leave them alone for a while (a few decades would be nice) and create our own OPEC in the Western Hemisphere along with all the other oil producing countries, Canada, Mexico, Venesuela, Brazil. Forget the Mid-East. When terrorists arrive from the Mid East training camps to attack, as they surely will, we attack the capitals and main cities of the sponsoring countries with such devastating air power, they will become as opposed to having terrorist training camps in their country as we are. In the meantime we can worry about our problems here in America and let the rest of the world try to grow up and become adults too. We need a big foreign change from our old cold war thinking.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    Depends on what Obama said, or which way the wind is blowing.