Letter: Fatal correctness

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  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    June 18, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    To "Wally West" please think before your respone. Would you, using your infinite liberal wisdome, appear on a show that you hated?

    If you wouldn't, why would Rush?

    FYI, you have yet to prove that Rush hated the show, and not just some episodes. As far as I can tell Rush is not a hypocrite because he did not appear in the episodes that he hated.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    June 18, 2014 12:00 p.m.

    to redshirt...

    Rushie also "appeared" on Family Guy and has droned on to his viewers about the "lack of ethics" on that show as well.

    Would that make RL hypocritical? Nah, everything from the political right is as pure as new fallen snow & only for entertainment value. Sarcasm off again??

  • Kora Cedar Hills, UT
    June 18, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    two cents- Again, wasn't it Reid who said that Obama was light skinned enough and lacked the negro dialect. And wasn't it Biden who said he was the first mainstream "clean" and "articulate" and "nice looking" black man? It sounds like liberals having issues with black people, not conservatives. Liberals apparently thought Colin Powell didn't fit that bill, nor did Condaleeza Rice, or any of the other blacks that have ever come before. It is Liberals who have a problem with minorities who don't think the way they believe they should think, as if all minorities should believe the same. Yet do they get called out for that, and it is much more racist or demeaning than anything Republicans ever say?

    Wally- Dan Quayle criticized the glorification of choosing to be a single mom, which studies show is not as beneficial as a 2-parent household. Ironically, I think Murphy Brown often made fun of political correctness.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    June 18, 2014 9:29 a.m.

    To "Wally West" prove it. If he was so "bent out of shape about it" why would he appear as a guest star on the show? I found articles where Rush expressed his dissapointment with various episodes of Murphy Brown, but he didn't hate the show.

    Would you appear on a sit-com that you hated?

    The only irrational people I see come from the left where they attibute characteristics to others that simply do not exist.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    June 18, 2014 8:41 a.m.

    to Redshirt...

    Why did Murphy Brown annoy conservatives? At the time, the Godfather of the irrational right (R Limbaugh) getting all bent out of shape about it.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    June 17, 2014 11:22 p.m.

    It's been my experience that those complaining the most about political correctness being foisted on them are white, male, conservative Christians bemoaning the fact that minorities are not acting white enough for them; that women are not subservient enough for them; and, that the general population is not Christian the way they think Christian should be.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2014 5:06 p.m.

    Haha, Kora, you, and RedShirt. obviously missed my point. Oh well, I find conservatives to be usually far to literal.

  • Kora Cedar Hills, UT
    June 17, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    Liberals use PC to label people they disagree with as something they are not. This has been their MO for years, but it only applies to conservatives.

    Harry Reid talks about how Obama is light skinned and has no Negro Dialect, unless he wants one, and this guy ends up as Leader of the Dems in the Senate.

    From Joe Biden: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    And he is Vice President. If a Republican had said that, they would be asked to resign.

    RedShirt- I would love to hear Mark describing someone to another person, especially the police. Telling them that he could not say if they were white or black, but only that they were a person.

    In medical charting, I cannot simply put, "they are a person."

    I had a black room mate in college and he preferred being called black and not African American because he was from Angola, and not American. In a crowd of white people why would I not use his race to point him out?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 17, 2014 8:15 a.m.

    To "mark" Calling a person of African heritage a Black is no different than calling the person of European heritage White, the Latino Brown, or any physical characteristic. If was to hand you an envelope and tell you to take it to Bill, you would want to know what Bill looked like. If I just said Bill is a tall person, you would ask me to be more specific. If I said that Bill was a tall Black man, that would make it easier to figure out who he was, and the more physical descriptors I give you the easier it is to identify him. I don't use the word Black as a derogatory word, but as a descriptor of the color of his skin to be used when describing a person of African Heritage.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2014 12:19 a.m.

    "I call a person of African heritage a Black,"

    No, the question is, why don't you just call this person a person?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 16, 2014 4:12 p.m.

    To "Wally West" Murphy Brown didn't annoy me, or anybody else that I knew. We tolerated it, and occasionally watched it. The ironic thing is that even the actress that played Murphy Brown did not agree with the message about single mothers that the show promoted.

    What I find most amusing about your ilk is the fact that when it comes to tolerance, you assume that conservatives are not tolerant. Historically conservatives are the most tolerant group and have looked to promote equality. You probably didn't know that Republicans wanted to push legislation through Congress right after the civil war that would have given all people equal rights in the US, regardless of race. My experience is that conservatives are highly tolerant and don't get sucked into the political correctness nonsense that the liberals love.

    I call the janitor the janitor. I call a person of African heritage a Black, I call the guy who pick up the garbage cans a garbage man. Those terms are not demeaning, they are just what they are.

    The question is why do you think that conservatives get annoyed by shows like Murphy Brown?

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    June 16, 2014 2:55 p.m.

    To Stormwalker...

    Regardless of my thoughts on the M Sam incident during the draft, as a Dolphins fan, I thought that Don Jones (the 'suspended' player) showed incredible lack of tact and discretion.

    As far as bullygate goes, Incognito was a meathead & J Martin was an overly sensitive mama's boy. I'm glad both are no longer play for the Dolphins. My big issue with Dolphins is the Center M Pouncey, his support of (fellow Gator) A Hernandez, & his twitter post after Miami acquired the OT at #19. But, I digress...

    To "redshirt"...

    If you recall the TV show Murphy Brown which probably annoyed you and many of your ilk (the political right) summed up PC as White Liberal guilt.

    When it comes to how phrases have morphed; look no further than the late George Carlin who had bit about how shell shock (WW1) over the yrs has transformed into the current PTSD.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 16, 2014 1:24 p.m.

    To "Maudine" you are wrong. Political Correctness is a tool of the liberal/progressive/collectivists. It has been used wherever people have opted for strong central governments as a method for suppressing people from opposing them. Just look at the number of times liberals have to change names because of the trugh catching up with them.

    First we had "Global Warming", then it changed to "Global Climate Change", and now it is "Global Climate Disruption". Why change the name if they are not trying to escape the truth that is coming out showing that they are wrong?

  • Kora Cedar Hills, UT
    June 16, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    Grover brings up a point that hurts his own Argument: Chick-Fil-A.
    After the Chick-Fil-A incident, multiple governments throughout the US attempted to ban the restaurant from opening in their municipalities. So yes, governments within our own Nation have attempted to infringe upon the rights of others due to this political correctness.

    What is the Real problem is the double standard of what is okay to say. The Left is much more free to denigrate others and get away with it than the Right.
    I remember that Trent Lott was forced to resign as Senate Majority leader because he said the US would have been better off if Strom Thurmond had been President, a statement that cannot be proved wrong. On the other hand, how many offensive statements has Harry Reid made?
    Democrats are allowed to attack blacks and women with disparaging words as long as they are Conservative and never get called out. Republican Blacks get called "Uncle Tom" and no one is chastised. Why is that acceptable speech by those of you liberals asking for "civility"? Why is it always a 1-way street against Conservatives when Liberals denigrate people as well?

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    June 16, 2014 7:41 a.m.


    Your reverse analogy suffers one serious flaw. Your reversal results in untruth.

    Climate change is real. You may not like the reasons why the vast majority of climate scientists give for it occurrence, but it is real. Even the most ardent opposition to rules governing human complicity in climate change allow that it is happening. Most so-called "climate change deniers" say that the climate changes all the time. So, to deny that climate is changing is engaging in untruth in the extreme, which ought to be challenged. It is not engaging in 'political correctness' to call out someone who engages in untruth. It is an act of bravery.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    June 15, 2014 1:18 p.m.

    @ Missouri loves BYU

    Yes, it's exactly the same, isn't it?

    Tim Tebow, a member of the long-dominant, majority religion in the country, surrounded by players who are also Christian and who feel free to openly display their religiosity on the field, in their locker rooms, in their press conferences...

    Michael Sam, member of a long-oppressed minority that even today is the subject of laws that treat him as a second-class citizen; a member of a group that continues to be targeted for bullying, harassment, assault and worse - even if they're Christian; the first of this group to come out - ALONE - in an environment where homophobia is known to exist.

    Right. No difference whatsoever.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    June 15, 2014 10:21 a.m.

    In modern Germany, Nazism, Fascism, and reactionary Conservatism has been effectively outlawed. And Germany is now an economic powerhouse, with a strong social net, and pretty good governance overall.

    In much of the rest of Europe though, where political correctness has been suppressed, including Great Britain who fought the Nazis in WWII, Fascism, nationalism, and Nazism are alive and well . . . and especially evident at soccer games . . . Where fans can freely wave the Swastika and throw bananas at opposing players of African descent.

    In fact, Nazi recruiting stations can be found yards away from major soccer stadiums in Europe (except for Germany).

    As bad as our Right Wing Extremists can be, they're not that bad yet . . . aside from the occasional act of violence, like murdering police officers having lunch.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 15, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    No Mr. Bender it's not "political" correctness that is destroying constitutional principles, it's the lack of correctness that is polluting political conversation.

    It's the incessant repeating of long ago disproved accusations. The steel resolve to oppose anything the President does, even if it was once owned and created by those opposing it.

    The continual use of hyperbole as fact rather than affect (literally a crime, socialist, communist, fascist etc.)

    If Republicans would simply accept the Benghazi report done by their own participants we could move on to a worthwhile discussion of how to better secure embassies.

    If the faithful would just go to their place of worship and give thanks for living in a country that allows them believe as they choose, then go to work the next day and obey the law of the land rather than perpetuating some nonsense of persecution where millions were killed, we would have the civility we long for.

  • Stormwalker Cleveland , OH
    June 15, 2014 8:09 a.m.

    @Missouri loves BYU

    One player, from the Miami Dolphins, was fined by the team for making two negative comments on Twitter. You might remember that the Dolphins had an embarrasing scandal and investigation about racial bullying. The team response seemed to be related to that incident and the knowledge gained in the investigation and fallout.

    Heartfelt or scripted, the player involved did offer a classy apology after he pulled his rude comments.

    Other than that was anybody fined or punished for bigoted, mean, or rude comments? Don't think so.

  • Henderson Orem, UT
    June 14, 2014 11:55 p.m.

    "I don't recall any players being fined for making adverse comments about Tim Tebow regarding either his football skills or his personal life. The same does not hold true for players expressing views about Michael Sam. Why would fines be levied in one situation and not the other?"

    The NFL is a private entity and can fine whoever they want for whatever they want. If the dolphins player fined for his offensive remarks on Twitter doesn't believe his comments warrant a fine, he can always quit the NFL. What's stopping him?

    Furthermore, I don't recall any NFL employee being fined over Tebow because no one said anything that violated the NFL's rules on social media. Please list a tweet, Facebook post, or otherwise social media violation towards Tebow made by an NFL employee that did not go punished. If you can, then you would have a point.

    Most private entities (employers) have strict guidelines on what you can and cannot say on social media. Don't like it? Then find another job. Simple, right?

    Had the federal government fined or imprisoned someone, then you'd have a point. They haven't, so you don't.

  • Missouri loves BYU Lebanon, MO
    June 14, 2014 10:31 p.m.

    @ Furry...

    I don't recall any players being fined for making adverse comments about Tim Tebow regarding either his football skills or his personal life. The same does not hold true for players expressing views about Michael Sam. Why would fines be levied in one situation and not the other? What would create the difference?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 14, 2014 4:56 p.m.

    LDS Liberal, great post, as usual.

    And always, thank you for your actual service! Many Utahns talk about serving the country and support our troops but never do! You actually did serve our country and protected my freedom. Thank you

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    June 14, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    @Missouri loves BYU 10:56 a.m. June 14, 2014

    A good example of how PC is affecting society could be illustrated by comparing the freedoms of speech people felt that they had to comment on Tim Tebow vs. the same freedoms they feel to comment on Michael Sam. Technically there should be no difference. However, obviously there is.


    In fact there was no difference. People were perfectly able to speak about Tim Tebow and they did. People were perfectly able to speak about Michael Sam and they did. Nobody either personally or by governmental action tried to restrain their right or ability to comment. In both cases people were free to respond (both favorably and adversely) to the comments that were made and they did. People were free to either support oppose those who commented and they did.

    People have every right to comment. They do not have the right to control the response that is made to the comments. That is true in every case. Freedom of speech and the right to speak is intact and has not been impaired.

    June 14, 2014 3:39 p.m.


    Constitutional Freedom of Speech means there will be no governmental reprisals for expressing opinions. Was someone arrested for supporting Tim Tebow or Michael Sam? Was someone fined by the State for expressing a personal opinion?

    I didn't think so.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    June 14, 2014 12:37 p.m.

    Everyone seems to get the part about the Constitutional protection to guarantee your right to say what you will. What most miss is that I have the right to disagree with you and bring social pressure to bear to force you to change your mind. The best recent example is business related - Chick-fil-A. The owners have certain beliefs about gay people and they expressed them publicly. Both people who agreed and disagreed spoke up and affected the sales of their food. Recently the owners of the business admitted that it was a mistake to involve their business in what was really a matter of personal belief. They can say what they want, but need to be prepared for some consumers to voice their opinion by eating more burgers.

    June 14, 2014 12:19 p.m.

    If political correctness means you are not allowed to speak untruths, then I am all for it. If it means social sanctions against a bigot, so be it. If it means jail, not so much for it.

    Climate change alarmists spread untruth. Is it wrong to call them out? It is a verifiable fact. Gay marriage will harm society systemically. It is a fact. Is it wrong to call out promoters of gay marriage? Anti-religious sentiment has scared this country for generations, yet is it wrong to call out those who still denigrate Christians, and make claims of intellectual inferiority.


    See how easy that was? It cuts both ways. It would be better if everyone stopped to trying to "cut" others and worked toward finding common ground. That's a bit harder, but worth the effort.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    June 14, 2014 12:06 p.m.

    Geez. Does it make you feel better to demonstrate bigotry with your speech or are you a better man by treating others how you would like to be treated? As has been so accurately stated in previous comments, no government agency has ever knocked on your door because you used a racial epitaph but I'll bet even the DNews would censor you if you used it here and I would expect others would call you out if you feel the need to do so. It has been said "Privilege is when you think something is not a problem because it's not a problem to you personally"

  • Missouri loves BYU Lebanon, MO
    June 14, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    A good example of how PC is affecting society could be illustrated by comparing the freedoms of speech people felt that they had to comment on Tim Tebow vs. the same freedoms they feel to comment on Michael Sam. Technically there should be no difference. However, obviously there is.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 14, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    The range of human thought and speech is expansive. Some topics become socially forbidden. We don't refer to women as property anymore, for example.

    In this process of sifting topics, objections arise about the process, for good reason.

    This isn't limited to any political orientation. Pro-gun activists have bullied two gun shop owners into not offering Smart Guns, via death threats.

    Are death threats an acceptable form of free speech? Do those railing against "political correctness" also condemn this purification of thought on the Right?

  • Stormwalker Cleveland , OH
    June 14, 2014 10:16 a.m.

    Frequently, those who complain the loudest about "political correctness" are the ones who want to be free to denigrate, humiliate, and verbally abuse members of one or more minority groups. Learning and using language that is respectful to others is polite and part of civilized society. Those who claim it infringes on their "First Amendment rights" frequently think the First Amendment gives them carte blanche permission to act like jerks.

    Not that long ago "Political Correct" was enforced with police dogs and fire hoses. Black leaders started naming and shaming racism whenever it reared its ugly head and started changing public opinion. Other groups have followed.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 14, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    The Lord gave us free agency...

    But that doesn't mean that you're free from the consequences of what you say or do.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    June 14, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    Political correctness is actually just courtesy. You stop calling people names and start respecting their feelings. I don't understand why so many people are upset about it.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    June 14, 2014 9:19 a.m.

    Debate seems alive and well. Respect for the truth and the ability to find common ground and sensible solutions? Not so much.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 14, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    "It has infected us to the extent that real freedom of speech, religion and press does not exist anymore. It has literally become a crime to say or print, and almost to think, anything that might offend someone."


    Hyperbole of the Century! is all I can say.

    FYI -- As an American, and a Veteran ---
    This letter 100%, truly "offended" me.

    Yet, here it is --
    not only said, put printed in MASS media. and published on the "WORLD Wide Web"!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 14, 2014 8:56 a.m.

    There are many, the author probably included, who benefit from there being a political correctness filter in place.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 14, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    Name one single example of someone who was arrested and charged for what they said.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 14, 2014 7:33 a.m.

    I long for a nation of people with skin so thick that words and thoughts of others cannot hurt.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    June 14, 2014 6:40 a.m.

    If political correctness means you are not allowed to speak untruths, then I am all for it. If it means social sanctions against a bigot, so be it. If it means jail, not so much for it.

    Climate change deniers spread untruth. Is it wrong to call them out? It is a verifiable fact. Gay marriage will not cause heterosexual ones to fail. It is a fact. Is it wrong to call out homophobes? Racism has scared this country for generations, yet is it wrong to call out those who still use the "N" word, and make claims of racial inferiority.

    Yet, has anyone been put in jail for being ignorant and intolerant? Don't think so.

    What probably upsets those against perceived political correctness is their inability to be socially sanctioned for their prejudice and refusal to accept demonstrable fact.

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    June 14, 2014 3:23 a.m.

    Literally? Can you point to some examples?

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    June 14, 2014 12:35 a.m.

    Political correctness started with the Right putting limits on language of which they disapprove - words commonly referred to as swear words or curse words - words usually related to body parts, body functions, or activities.

    It then expanded to the Left with objections to words that classify and denigrate groups of people - usually based on an attribute or characteristic.

    Those who object to political correctness usually don't object to the limiting of curse words, but only to the limiting of words that denigrate others.

    I wonder why that is?