@ DuckhunterI don't think Utah did enough in 2004 to earn a
spot in the NCG, or to achieve a #1 ranking. I feel the same way about
BYU's 1984 team. It was a nice season, but not national championship
@Solomon Levi"It's laughable that "beating everybody on their
schedule" proved to Utah fans that the Utah 2004 was BCS worthy, while
"beating everybody on their schedule" didn't prove to those same
Utah fans that BYU 1984 was National Championship worthy.The
double-standard is hysterical."There's a difference between
"beating everybody on their schedule" proving that they belong as one of
10 teams that can prove themselves in a BCS game (or a chance in the
championship game as was more argued in 2008 especially after the Sugar Bowl)
and arguing that "beating everybody on their schedule" proves that a
team should have the national championship handed to them.
The U might have wonderful graduate programs but their undergrad corps is
woeful. They're better than they've been but the U as a choice for
students is a pretty poor choice, for undergrads. There are similar and cheaper
options elsewhere, as far as commuter schools go.And it seems that
all have forgotten that it was BYU's 1996 season that paved the way for BCS
busting schools, put some credibility into that year as it was probably the best
BYU team ever fielded.Now onto the subject of the article, BYU hoops
has done a fantastic job. Steve Cleveland started the rebuilding and Dave Rose
has continued it admirably. The recovery from the Roger Reid days is stunning
and one to be admired by any suffering program. It's exactly what the U is
trying to do, scramble back to respectability. Dave Rose has done wonders and a
balanced schedule has helped things. Holmoe knows what he's doing for the
programs at BYU, go Cougars!
@2fer"2004 Utah was ranked #6 at the end of the regular season,
and earned the spot on their own."I agree with that statement,
utah did "earn" that spot on their own. But of course if utah
"fans" like yourself are consistent and not hypocritical you would have
to admit that by those exact same criteria BYU earned the 1984 NCAA College
Football National Champioship. utah "earned the 2004 bcs berth
by beating a bunch of mediocre teams and getting a high ranking based on not
losing. BYU in 1984 earned the #1 ranking by beating a bunch of mediocre teams
and getting the #1 ranking. Plus ca change, plus cest le meme chose.
@ LonestarRunnerBYU wan't in the top 6. Those were the rules.
Marshall, who finished undefeated wasn't invited for the same reason in
1999. After Utah won the Fiesta Bowl, the rule changed to the highest ranked
mid-major in the top 12.A lot of good excuses in there, but you
forgot to blame the refs.
@ Solomon LeviBeing BCS worthy, and being national championship
worthy are not even close to being the same thing.
@Yerfoggen This is just a wild guess, but I guessing, just guessing
that because of the frequency that UPAC posts on all things BYU he doesn't
own a farm to bet. I'm just guessing that owning a farm would require
working on it, not obsessing over something you have no control over. Now on a
happier note, Dave Rose has put together a great schedule. He is our Lavell
Edwards of basketball. It's so fun to watch his teams. The last 2 years
have kind of underachieved, but he's an amazing recruiter, and in the
coming few years there are going to be some great teams. Hope Collinsworth
recover quickly and fully.
2ferYou need to study history a little closer my friend.BYU 1996 impacted the Bowl Alliance, which was the predecessor to the BCS.BYU 2001 impacted the BCS because the BCS had announced BEFORE BYU, then
12-0 and ranked #9 in the AP poll, had played Hawaii, one of the significant
factors in BYU's loss at Hawaii, the mental letdown of the BYU players
being that they were no longer even being considered for a BCS bowl.That, and the loss their Doak Walker Award winning running back, and the
fatigue of being forced to travel from Utah to Mississippi back to Utah and then
to Hawaii (over 12,000 miles) in less than a week because their scheduled game
with Mississippi State was postponed 3 months because of 9-11.
2fer"Utah beat everybody on their schedule (by a lot), which
made them BCS worthy."It's laughable that "beating
everybody on their schedule" proved to Utah fans that the Utah 2004 was BCS
worthy, while "beating everybody on their schedule" didn't prove to
those same Utah fans that BYU 1984 was National Championship worthy.The double-standard is hysterical.btw, "by a lot" means
absolutely NOTHING according to the "BCS rules" - see Sagarin for an
explanation of why margin-of-victory isn't even included in the "BCS
@ CordonBleuUtah beat everybody on their schedule (by a lot), which
made them BCS worthy. The SOS was weak, so the Utes did not earn a chance to
complete for the national title, but they absolutely deserved a BCS bowl.1996 BYU didn't have any impact whatsoever since the BCS
wasn't created until 1998. The post-season structure in 1996 was called
the Bowl AllianceLikewise 2001 BYU was never ranked high enough to
secure a spot in a BCS bowl. Mid-majors had to be ranked in the top 6. The
highest BYU got was #9, before getting blown out by Hawaii and then Louisville.
If anything, Marshall in 1999 would have been the catalyst for guaranteeing
mid-majors a spot since they finished in the top 10 AND undefeated, but were
still snubbed.2004 Utah was ranked #6 at the end of the regular
season, and earned the spot on their own.
@deductive reasoning"who did Utah beat in 2004 that made the
Utes a "BCS" worthy team"?Since u-pac will ignore the
question, for obvious reasons, I'll answer it...In a word:
NOBODY!It's funny how Utah fans take credit for "busting
the BCS", when, in fact, the Utes wouldn't have even had an opportunity
to bust the BCS if BYU 1996 and 2001 hadn't forced the powers that be to
adopt the rules that forced the BCS to guarantee non-BCS teams a spot in the BCS
bowls, if they met certain requirements.Utah 2004 just happened to
be in the right place and the right time to take advantage of the new rules.Beating 3 winning teams, none with a record better than 7-5, certainly
didn't make the 2004 Utes BCS worthy.
U-PAC"cherry picked stats"?LOL!Yes,
the Utes made so much "noise" in 2004, that they weren't even
ranked in 2005.The Utes made so much "noise" in 2008, that
they dropped to #18 in 2009 and completely out of the AP poll in 2010, never to
return.How "exciting and fulfilling" is spending bowl week
on the couch?What "future" are you talking about? A program that was only able to win 6 WAC/MWC championships in the last half
century, has NO "future" other than being a perennial conference
whipping boy for the big boys of the PAC.Your twin flash-in-the-pan
seasons are quickly fading and will be completely forgotten when the playoffs
start.Your annual, season-ending pillow fight in the rockies is the
only "future" U have to look forward to.
U-PACYour personal, biased opinion of BYU 2009 is MEANINGLESS!BYU 2009 was ranked #12 in BOTH final polls.--------------"But, the BCS rankings took away the blind,
unrealistic polls that are obviously a joke."Laughing
hysterically at your spin.The Utes have never finished higher than
6th in the final BCS standings, yet the ONLY ranking Utah fans ever
cite is Utah's #2 finish in the Final AP poll, the poll that has absolutely
NOTHING to do with the BCS.It's funny how Utah fans use
"opponent's rankings" to validate 2008 ("Utah beat four ranked
teams in 2008"), yet those same Utah fans claim that thos same rankings are
"invalid" when the rankings contradict their own biased opinions.btw, who did Utah beat in 2004 that made the Utes a "BCS" worthy
U-PACUtah's MO is to pull off an occassional upset, like
Utah/Stanford 2013), but to lose regularly to conference bottom dwellers.Kyle lost to every perennial MWC bottom dweller - Wyoming, Colorado
State, New Mexico, UNLV - during his tenure in the MWC and he's doing the
same thing in the PAC with losses already to Colorado and Washington State.Bronco is UNDEFEATED versus Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV,
and Washington State.Even Utah's very first AP Top 25 team, in
1994, didn't win the WAC championship, because they lost to a lowly
conference bottom dweller.There's a reason BYU has won 23
WAC/MWC championships and has ELEVEN 11+ win seasons - BYU seldom loses to bad
teams.There's a reason Utah has only won 6 WAC/MWC
championships and only has TWO 11+ win seasons - Utah is constantly losing to
bad teams.When was the last time Utah finished in AP Top 25 three
straight years?The ability to consistently beat good and bad teams
is something the Utes have NEVER had in football.After 2004, the
Utes tanked for three straight years.Since 2008, the Utes have been
in steady decline.
UPAC:Plenty of people in the South know about BYU football. And Utahs
defeat of Alabama, if even brought up is thought of as a trifle, and typical
defeat of an uninspired Alabama team when they aren't playing for it all
(see Oklahoma slaughter of Bama just last year). Your idea of Utah's image
in the south is completely biased and not accurate at all. People in the South
know BYU because of their NC (albeit they hate them for it just like U), and for
LaVell Edwards who had great relationships with many of the former and current
coaches of the SEC. Get over it...no one cares about U any more than they care
about BYU, even if they "know" both programs.
@ U-Pac.... again, this is a basketball article... I know it has been painful
to talk about UofU basketball since they have not had many winning seasons
lately but I kind of figured that you would have been used to it by now.and by the way... People in North Carolina care about UNC, Duke and
sometimes NCstate. They don't pay much attention to anyone outside of the
ACC and certainly don't care about anything that happens out west. Your
attempts to make the UofU relevant in ACC territory are laughable to those of us
who have lived there. Bringing up UofU basketball in North Carolina/ACC
territory is about like talking up Ramen noodles in Italy... Just don't....
I mean really....
upacSo 18th ranked Utah, the fourth highest AP ranked team in Utah
history, wasn't a decent team in 2009?It's laughable how
Utah fans will strain at a gnat to swallow a camel just to minimize BYU.Calling Utah beating a barely ranked (#25 in only one poll) team a
"monster" win is equally laughable.The only reason Utah is
"in" is because of television, nothing more. You're seriously
delusional if you think that Utah was invited because of the excellence of their
two-hit wonder football program.
U-PAC"BYU's easy schedules...create many win
seasons,"LOL at your desperate spin.Utah played
basically the same schedule as BYU from 1962 to 2010.ALL ELEVEN of
BYU's 11+ win seasons came during that period, the same period in which
Utah had only TWO 11+ win seasons, the ONLY two 11+ win seasons in Utah
history.It gets even worse if you compare 10+ win seasons.Give it up; your whiny "SOS" argument is nothing but a whiny excuse
for over a century of Utah football mediocrity.
The RockExactly, it's the score and outcome when the two teams
actually play that matters; right?
SportsfanWhen have I ever said anything about 1944? There's no
need to make false accusations. It only damages your credability. By the way;
1984 was 30 years ago. Also, nothing matters in basketball except 1999 and last
year. Football only 2004 and 2008. Sheesh.........Lighten up Guy!
soup twins - the out of conference games in college basketball are a big part of
a team's resume to try to get an at large berth in the tournament,
especially for mid-majors. secondarily they help prepare a team for the
conference schedule. Especially when the Cougs play in a mid-major league like
the WCC, the non-conference is huge to try to get some quality wins. In the WCC
there are a lot of average wins, but few chances for resume-enhancing wins.
@ U-PACI hear these predictions every year and every year they mean
nothing.Just a bunch of hot air, chest beating and ego building.I think it is just plain dumb.The only thing that matters is the
performance at game time. Let the players do the talking on the court.
Down goes UPAC...1,2,3....Give it up dude, you're getting owned
in here. Talk football on a football article but coming in here with weak smack
about basketball when U have won 2 of the last THIRTEEN games is
laughable...sir.And don't give us false bologna about people in
the South knowing Utah and not BYU. That...sir...is a joke. I grew up in Georgia
and know better. Anyone who has spent time in the South knows better. Your
desperation is telling...sir.
Strange how this article was about BYU's non conference basektball
schedule...and the Utah fans keep trying to talk about football...Makes it
pretty clear what they think of UofU hoops. By the way, winning one game out of
eleven against BYU in basketball isn't that impresive. Guessing it will be
about as impressive as the UofU's non conference schedule in Basketball.
Wondering how many Highschool teams they will play they will play at home this
year? Maybe Utah will really mix it up and play at a neutral site. We all know
that for Utah playing on the road is still too scary as they nearly always
Spokane UteYou pretend that 1984 is too long ago to be relevant, yet
U beat your chest about 1944.You pretend that 1997 is too long ago
to be relevant, yet U beat your chest about 1998.It's like Utah
fans live in this weird time warp where nothing before 2004 counts in football,
and nothing after 2005 counts in basketball.
upacThe 4th place team from BYU's "puny D3 conference"
spanked the Utes 70-58 in the opening round of the 2014 NIT, but thanks for
playing.In 2010-11, BYU was a national championship contender with
the consensus National Player of the Year, and even after the loss of Davies
derailed their national championship hopes, BYU still came within a made free
throw in regulation of advancing to the Elite Eight. Jimmermania was a national
phenomenon and BYU was certainly on the national stage throughout the season.BYU's 11+ win, Top 12 finish in 2009 exceeds all but two seasons in
Utah football history, and began with BYU upsetting then #3 Oklahoma in Dallas
Cowboys stadium in front of a national television audience.Not as
big as a BCS bowl, but BYU's opponent was certainly far more impressive
than Utah's 2004 Fiesta Bowl opponent.You need to get over your
BYU-hatred long enough to recognize that the definition of "national
stage" isn't limited to your cherry-picked standards.The
Utes are nothing but a two-hit wonder in football, with little before or after
2004/2008, and your basketball program hasn't been relevant on a national
stage in a decade.
"That's nice, but how many 18 to 23 year olds currently attending the U
remember something that happened SEVENTEEN years ago - most of them weren't
even in kindergarten in 1998."Signed,1984
Look forward to that December 10th matchup in Provo. The Utes need to win to
show continued progress and the ability to win tough road games. That was
lacking last year.
U-PACBYU won 11 of the last 13 against the Utes. Nuff said.
@ U-PACLet me guess.... You were the only person in the sports bar
cheering for Utah in 1997. That may have even been the last time someone in
North Carolina wore a U of U shirt for an NCAA tournament game. Having spent
considerable time working in North Carolia during the past decade I never had
one person ever bring up the University of utah. When people heard I was from
Utah they always asked me if I went to BYU..... Great time to be BYU sports fan!
upac"there isn't a current BYU freshman that was alive the
last time BYU had a good football team"Only a desperately
jealous Utah fan would try to claim that an 11+ win, Top 15 team isn't a
GOOD football team.
U-PACLOL at your frantic and emotional attempt to switch sports.NCAA tournament record during the Dave Rose era:BYU 4-7Utah 0-1Despite your frantic attempts to deny reality, the truth
is, the Utes are now the real one-and-done kings.----------------As far as football is concerned,BYU was an 11+ win, Top 12
team in 2009, BYU's THIRD 11+ win, Top 15 team since 2006.The
Utes, by comparison, have only had TWO 11+ win, Top 15 teams in their entire
history.BYU's last bowl game after Christmas - December 27,
2013.Remind us which bowl the Utes played in last season.LOL!
upac"Well sir, I moved to Pinehurst, NC from SLC in 1997. I
remember the look on people's faces at a local sports bar when Utah
dominated #1 seed UNC in the semifinals at the Final Four in 98"That's nice, but how many 18 to 23 year olds currently attending the U
remember something that happened SEVENTEEN years ago - most of them weren't
even in kindergarten in 1998.Time for Utah fans to face reality -
the Majerus era for Utah ended only a short time after the Edwards era ended for
upacWhat would a Utah fan know about dancing?Most of
Utah's students and basketball players were still in grade school the last
time the Utes won an NCAA tournament game - it's doubtful that any of them
even remember the game.
@motortrike"What? Not leaving the state of Utah other than the
Maui Tournament? This has the feel of Utah's out of conference schedule
last year that all the Cougar fans made fun of"What a foolish
statement. utah had the worst OOC schedule in all of college basketball last
year, nothing about BYU's ooc this year can be compared to utah's
worst in the nation schedule last year. BYU is playing multiple NCAA tournament
teams plus playing in a top notch tournament.As I told you before
congratulations on your conscious decision to become a u-pac/chris b level of
poster. It becomes you.LOL!
upac"BYU will not be "dancing" this year folks. Even if
they were to do so, the Y is a 1 and done participant in the NCAA
tourney..."The U is 1 and done for the last nine seasons,
combined, and got stomped in the opening round of the NIT.Before
spouting off, try winning more than one road game per year against teams with a
winning record. As usual, the Utes will be left on the outside looking in at the
big dance, while, despite the delusional predictions of doom from the hill
crowd, the Cougars will once again be dancing.
This is a serviceable OOC schedule. The Maui tourney is a good one for sure.
I'm actually glad to see more home games for the preseason. There were
some really tough road games last year and we could have used a few more at
home. Predicting post season play at this point is a fool's game. I do
know that the Zags will be back in true form this year after making some
excellent off-season moves. This schedule should prepare BYU for WCC play which
is the most important thing.
motorbike"What? Not leaving the state of Utah other than the
Maui Tournament? This has the feel of Utah's out of conference schedule
last year that all the Cougar fans made fun of,..."LOL at your
distorted hyperbole.BYU's 2014-15 nonconference schedule
includes seven home games, two on the road, and four at neutral sites, with
severall RPI Top 100 teams in the mix.Utah's 2013-14
nonconference schedule consisted of ELEVEN home games, ONE on the road, and NINE
opponents with an RPI over 200.BYU's 2014-15 OOC schedule will
be in the Top 100 RPI SOS.Utah's 2013-14 OOC schedule was in the
Bottom 10.Watch for Utah to play most of their pre-season games at
home again. The hypocrisy on the hill never ends.
sweaterman"I wonder if Evergreen State played So Virginia if
either team would win..."At least BYU has a connection to So.
Virginia - the real question is "Why would a Ute homer be mocking BYU, when
the Utes schedule two or three H.S. teams like Evergreen State every
year?"btw, So Virginia would stomp Evergreen State.
timid sparrow"How did BYU "fair" head-to-head?"BYU has won 7 of the last 8, 9 of the last 12, and Rose has NEVER
lost to Utah in the Marriott Center.Laughing hysterically at the Ute
faithful desperately hoping that one upset win in the HC has suddenly made the
U-PAC"It will be a long year for BYU this upcoming season. A
goal to finish just over .500 would seem fitting. Look for Utah to blow out the
Y easily again this year."LOL at your delusion.Unlike that perennial losing program on the hill, Rose has never had a losing
season - 7 NCAA tournaments, 2 NITs in his 9-year tenure.BYU will
once again be dancing, while the Utes are still trying to figure out how to win
on the road - it'll be the same ol' same ol' when the Utes visit
the MC in December.btw, why are the Utes still scared to visit the
Spectrum or the Dee Center?
The difference between BYU's non-conference this year and Utah's
non-conference last year is that BYU IS Playing outside the state of Utah at the
Maui Invite (likely against at least one team from the NCAA tournament last
year) AND BYU is playing NCAA tournament teams (at home) from the prior year.
BYU is not playing home games against Barbizon hair college, and ITT Technical
Institute, like Utah did last year. YES, Utah won last year against BYU. But it
tells you something that everyone said that was one of only a very few quality
wins by Utah. Besides, everyone knows that Utah get's up for BYU more than
any other game they play. BYU is Utah's bowl game/NCAA tournament game.
@Max-was-right"How did the utes fair (sp?) in the post season
last year?"How did BYU "fair" head-to-head?
Nice scheduling. The Maui invitation always has a tough field. It's better
to play tough teams in non-conference; especially when it come selection time.
Gonzaga has it's usual tough schedule: Memphis, SMU, @ UCLA, @ Arizona and
the preseason NIT: Georgia, Minn, and St. Johns.
Great preseason schedule for another great year of basketball. Looking forward
to Collinsworth's return.And a flashback salute to the Utes for
their preseason schedule last year. Evergreen 128-44UCD
94-60GCU 79-54LAM 84-57Sav 71-57Ball 88-69Fres
90-77IdSt 74-66Cupcakes anyone?
@upacAny kind of victory for the utes in Provo would be a history
making event... It will be the first time that Utah has won in Provo in 10
seasons... that's 10 years... where were you 10 years ago??? I'm
thinking you probably haven't even followed basketball for 10 years...As for Southern VA, I think that it is cool that we play our Division
III little brothers from the East Coast... I imagine that that will be a pretty
exciting event for that school.
It continues to amaze me that a team that wins one of twelve games can talk such
smack after one victory. How was the road last year. Prove yourself ant then
What? Not leaving the state of Utah other than the Maui Tournament? This has the
feel of Utah's out of conference schedule last year that all the Cougar
fans made fun of, and BYU doesn't have a tough conference schedule to fall
back on either. The Cougs better plan on winning the Maui tournament and
finishing no worse than second in the WCC and WCC tourney if they hope to have a
prayer of making the NCAA tournament next year. Though they do have Holmoe on
the committee, so perhaps that's the master plan?
UpacThat would be totally against 6 of the last 7 years. I'm
wondering if you are willing to take that prediction to Vegas and bet your
they ought to get UVU on there. that would be a much more interesting game than
SVU. It'd be a big help to their schedule if they get 3 difficult games at
Maui instead of just 1 or 2 (i.e. I hope they don't draw Chaminade). The 2
unusually big home and home series (uMass and Stanford) are ending. Hope they
can start up something new similar in 2015-2016. Unless it is in a post season
tournament, there will be no traveling east of Utah this season.
I like UPac's optimism on a long season. If BYU can manage to go deep in
the tourney instead of these one and done tourneys it will be a memorable season
indeed. BYU is going to avenge its losses from last year.If we can
schedule Southern Virginia, why can't we schedule UVU?
I wonder if Evergreen State played So Virginia if either team would win...Nice job Cougies...is that a home and home?
u-pac,How did the utes fair in the post season last year? oh ya,
lost to a nobody in a rice ecles sized stadium against a very weak opponent?
Preseason will be rough unless Collinsworth can return at 90%, but we still
won't have the UNLV transfer eligible until December. With Chatman and
Fischer, though, we should be able to shoot the ball better from 3-point land.
This has to be one of the most difficult schedules in the country and will
assure us of another NCAA bid. Especially with Tom Holmoe on the