Real immigration reform: keep important virtues in mind

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  • jqw Rural, UT
    June 13, 2014 8:08 p.m.

    2pops,I believe that most people would consider citizenship to be a reward as would legalization to simply remain here in the US to work. "Squaring with the law." "paying back taxes," as well as 'coming out of the shadows" are simply political catch phrases, specifically designed to (as you say) to fool the people.

    What of a DUI, should you lose your car? MY private fantasy is for the alien youth here is for them to return to their homeland with, hopefully, a understanding of freedom and responsibility. But with our current no work with minimal reward which yields a better life here than there, it's not likely.

    So we both can continue with our fantasy world OR convince our fellow citizens not to hire the illegals even though they are willing to work "cheap." and while we are at it stop patronizing those businesses who do not use EVerify,

    June 12, 2014 10:38 p.m.

    I'm afraid we've been fooled into viewing the immigration issue in a way that isn't beneficial to anybody. Well, that's not entirely true - it's pretty beneficial to Democrat politicians.

    Requiring someone to "square themselves with the law" is not a reward. It's a penalty. But it isn't the "death" penalty. When you get pulled over for speeding, do you have your license permanently revoked, or are you "rewarded" with a fine? How about a parking violation - do you forfeit your car? Or is it another of those "rewards", a parking fine?

    My private fantasy would be to work out some kind of deal with Mexico in which we permanently keep the hard-working God-fearing people who sneak across the border (not the traffickers or career criminals), because they value freedom and opportunity, and in their place deport some of our less-than-stellar citizens who have no clue how fortunate they are and only wish to live off the labor of others.

  • jqw Rural, UT
    June 12, 2014 2:02 p.m.

    @Pops My apologies if I misunderstood your comment. But, there are FAR worse living condition in many other parts of the world than in Central America. Surely, you are not suggesting they should receive priority because of their proximity to our border (and the ease of crossing it).

    I'm sure as a one time resident of a Latin American country you are aware of the restriction they generally place on foreign residents.

    As you correctly intimate our immigration system may have problems, but simply REWARDING past 'bad behavior,' civil infraction, felony, misuse of welfare, failure to pay taxes, or whatever you deem to name it can not correct the problem.

    As you are aware, the "delayed action" program instituted unilaterally by Pres. Obama is now being shown as another magnet for even more illegal aliens (this time unaccompanied children)crossing in ever increasing numbers.

    Would it not be possible for these currently present young people who have had the advantage of a FREE multi-lingual education, providing by Utah taxpayers $75K), to return to their country of origin. There they could apply what they have (hopefully) learned to assist that country in overcoming problems and instituting freedom?

    June 11, 2014 8:49 p.m.

    @jqw - that's not really what I was suggesting. Many people who come here illegally don't come with the intent to steal identities, commit perjury, or engage in fraud. They come here to be work, to be free, and to provide education and opportunities for their children. There's no question that they're doing it the wrong way, but if you've ever lived in Central America (I have) you might have some empathy for what motivates them. Slapping felonies on them is cruel and unusual punishment for a civil infraction that ballooned out of control because of the way we do things here. It's unreasonable an inhumane.

    We can turn this into a win-win if instead of digging in our heels and reacting how the progressive crowd expects us to react, we respond by embracing those who are here illegally, but who have come here seeking the same things we value. The state of Utah can't export people who are here at the tacit invitation of the federal government, but we most certainly can make lemonade instead of sucking on lemons.

  • jqw Rural, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    @InmigrantesUnidosCorp: The article gives a definition for immigrant

    “a person who leaves one country to settle in another,” in a law abiding fashion of respect for their new country"

    @Brer Rabbit Notice that the DNews posted a new editorial calling (again) for legalization - to 'counter' this one?

    @anti-liar Are you referring to the greed of the employer or the alien "at the expense of integrity" - both, I would guess.

    @Pops I suppose we could do away with ALL laws, then we would have no "crime"

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 9:13 a.m.

    Few human emotions are as powerful as that of Greed. It spawns great creativity in sophistry, in calling evil good and good evil, at the expense of the integrity of the country and well-being of its citizens. Good for the letter-writer for aiming the light of truth on some of these lies.

    June 11, 2014 6:52 a.m.


    The point is that we need to change the laws so that the felonies you list don't come into play. These people are here with the tacit approval of the federal government. It is in the state's interest to find a way for them to have some sort of legal status (not necessarily amnesty). It isn't the intent of those who come here to work to commit felonies.

    A clever and diabolical scheme it is to open the floodgates and allow people to come here illegally in order to provoke one's political opponents into reacting badly. It's making conservatives appear to be dogmatic, inhumane, and even racist. We have a choice. We can react as we are expected to react and make a bad situation worse, or we can turn the tables by embracing those who come here to work, helping them find ways around the hurdles. So which is it going to be? Are we going to be snared by this trap, or are we going to respond with true humanity and our own cleverness?

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:20 p.m.


    ID theft, social security fraud and perjury are all felonies, and a person here illegally commits at least one of them in order to work. Under the law, they are all criminals, and so are the businessmen who hire them.

    After the Supreme court decision, cities have the right to force business to use E-verify, or pull their business license. They also have the right to make it against the law to rent to people here illegally.

    House majority leader Eric Cantor lost his primary today to a tea party candidate. The main issue was amnesty for illegal aliens, which Cantor supported.

    June 10, 2014 8:06 p.m.

    There's a lot of the "all or nothing" ploy going on here - either one supports across-the-board amnesty, or else one favors sending them all back where they came from. However, it isn't that simple.

    A lot of people have come to the United States to live and work with the tacit approval of the federal government. The federal government needs to get its house in order and stop this foolishness in which the laws say one thing but the actions of the executive branch say another.

    The state of Utah needs some way to separate the criminals from those who aren't criminals (no, they aren't all criminals) and ensure that those who are decent people are treated fairly before the laws of Utah. There are no citizenship requirements in the state of Utah, only residency requirements.

    A purpose of the Utah Compact is to encourage all to recognize this crucial dichotomy and work towards a way of fixing what is broken in Utah - let's provide a way for them to square themselves with the law and get on the radar. And let's encourage the federal government to get its act together.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 7:39 p.m.

    Casey See:
    "How many of our ancestors would have been able to immigrate to the US under today's requirements. I know none of mine from the 1800's could have come over from Europe."

    There's nothing wrong with immigration, provided there's work for them to survive and provided we get a representative number from around the world. As it now stands we don't have jobs for them. In fact, we have over 90 million unemployed Americans drawing unemployment while looking for work with millions more who've given up looking. We need to hire Americans before even considering allowing immigrants (illegal and otherwise) to take jobs.

    Further, the immigrants now entering in droves comes from just a few countries and they all speak the same language, Hispanic. This is developing into a substantial Hispanic voting block that will soon control our government... and already has to some extent.

    The way to solve the current waves of illegals (children and adults) is to put them back on buses and drive them back to the Mexican border from whence the came. Let the Mexican government feed and house them and decide what to do next.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:47 p.m.

    @Casey See
    That is a fallacy. People who came here in the 1800's had to have permission to disembark papers from the US government. We had caps on the number of people allowed each year. From 1776-1976 we averaged half a million people a year, we now let in over one million a year on green cards, and 3.2 million people a year on work visas. If you looked at the lists of people that came to the port of New York, you will see many were banned and sent back.

    The LDS church is very clear, people need to obey the laws and come here legally.
    D&C 42: 79, 84-86
    84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    85 And if he or she shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    86 And if he or she shall lie, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.

    We have a disaster occurring with the children, many dying, many families broken because of the liberal enforcement.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    I see that there are still several comments that support amnesty/legalization, without understanding the consequences. When playing a game with a cheater, what happens if the cheater isn't called out for it? He/she cheats even more. Presently there is chaos on the border due to lack of enforcement, sympathy, politics and greedy employers looking for cheap labor.

    The Administration has promised the DREAMERs that the laws will not be enforced. ICE has also been forbidden to enforce the laws in the interior against employers of illegal aliens or the illegal aliens themselves. ICE is even releasing criminal illegal aliens back onto the American public.

    The border cannot be controlled until employers are forced to stop employing illegal labor, by the use and enforcement of an E-Verify law. Even Utah is part of the problem. Utah has an E-Verify law, but compliance is unenforceable because the legislature forgot to put in a penalty for non-compliance, making it voluntary.

    The writer of this Op-Ed makes some very good points. I am surprised that the DesNews published it considering their editorial support of amnesty/legalization.

  • Concinnity Richfield, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    @ Casey See:

    If you've been following the news lately, you'd know your suggestion of allowing citizenship to all illegal immigrants under age 16 is a loser.

    As it is, the poorest of South Americans are currently sending their youth here at record numbers to try to take advantage of that idea... knowing, or at least hoping, that we won't deport their children. The idea is that they gain citizenship and then later bring their parents over.

    There are over 70,000 of these illegal youth immigrants expected this year alone. We've had to convert military barracks in an effort to deal with the huge and unexpected numbers.

    If we officially adopt your suggestion, it would only make matters worse by encouraging even more illegal youth to be sent through our southern borders.

    One thing I totally agree with in this article is that the original definition of anchor babies has been and continues to be totally misused. Two illegal aliens should not be capable of producing anchor babies, nor were they ever intended to per the original definition of that law. An amendment is needed to clarify that and stop the misuse.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 10, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    CBS news of June 7 "There is a surge developing in the number of unaccompanied children crossing the border from Mexico into the U.S.

    And it is creating dire conditions at a makeshift holding center in southern Arizona, where food, water and medical supplies are now running low."

    Our lack of enforcement is causing a humanitarian crisis on our south border. Children are being sent here alone from central and south America. The parents know they will not be returned.

    Our lack of enforcement has caused many to die, and broken up families. When will the churches and those calling for compassion, learn they are the cause of this human disaster? This is what the promise of amnesty brings us.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 1:19 p.m.

    The reason wages have stagnated the last 30 years is directly attributable to the massive influx of illegal immigrant trespassers. Whenever a "supply" of (anything)goes up the "price" goes down.

    BOTH political parties are to blame. The democrats couldn't have done what they have vis-à-vis illegal amnesty legislation WITHOUT the help of Republicans.

    Currently there is a LOT of money being spent by business interests in order to guarantee them a cheap supply of illegal trespassers. The "losers" in the current push for amnesty (or a "path to citizenship") or whatever euphemism you hear are the lower-middle income Americans. THEY will be paying the bills for the illegal trespassers free healthcare, free education, food stamps, etc.

    In case you haven't noticed: BOTH parties couldn't care less whether plain old LEGAL Americans have jobs - BOTH parties are pursuing their own agenda, although for different reasons!

  • InmigrantesUnidosCorp Denver, CO
    June 10, 2014 12:45 p.m.

    What definition about the word Immigrant are using? Dictionary or Homeland Security? Immigrant means, according with Cambridge dictionary, a person who has come into a foreign country in order to live and comes from the Latin EMIGRARE. Immigrant in English late 18th century: from Latin immigrating; from the verb immigrare, on the pattern of emigrant. Are you serious to discuss the unconstitutionality of the IVX Amendment? Ezekiel 47:22 “You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.” We'd come from a tribe of Israel, 2 Nephi 1:6: “I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.” When they immigrate to America were inspired by God, same like actual immigrants and they don't need a green card. The LDS church speaks out of both sides, unauthorized immigrant missionaries are a clear sample of Church influence to change the laws.

  • Casey See FLOWER MOUND, TX
    June 10, 2014 12:21 p.m.

    Many immigration reform opponents say send everyone back who didn't come legally. How many of our ancestors would have been able to immigrate to the US under today's requirements. I know none of mine from the 1800's could have come over from Europe.

    Agreed that the US isn't looking for unlimited immigrants that we saw during that time either.

    Still we have families and individuals that are begging for the same opportunities that my ancestors had for their families today. Many are here illegally.

    One proposal that I have, is that we don't provide citizenship to those who arrived over the age of 16 or 18 illegally, but if no criminal records and proof of employment, they can stay for 10 years plus option to extend another 10 years so long as they remain employed and crime free. If family members (children or dependents, siblings, parents) reside with them and they are involved with gangs, crime, felonies that the family doesn't report, Upon conviction, all family members are deported. Make them responsible for helping keep the crime / drugs out of our country.

    Illegal immigrants who come when under 16 and remain crime free should have method of gaining citizenship.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:35 a.m.

    The last serious effort to shore up the enforcement effort was in 2005 with HR4437.
    Since then the politicians from both parties embarked on an all-out bidding war to woo Latino voters with amnesty of one form or another.
    Various business groups and labor unions have sweetened the pot with campaign contributions and election-year clout.
    This issue is beyond the ability of our politicians to solve. How can they resist votes and money?
    It's sad really, but there's no way for the lowly citizens to fight a corrupt system.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:18 a.m.

    No matter what words you choose to describe it, justify it, or color it, Immigration is being use to circumvent the real principals of Capitalism by unfairly manipulate the amount of labor available to business. That is the real problem with our economic system and because our government is made up of businessmen, it is not likely to change.

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    What we need are three things; full and complete amnesty for current, undocumented workers, a pathway to citizenship, and fewer letters like this one.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    June 10, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    Current law under the 1986 act was meant to be unenforceable. It offered no check and balanced is one of the worst laws on the books. All it takes is cities and states not wanting to comply and they can make it very difficult for enforcement. Also employers bare no real punishments or accountability in the process.

    Without reform we are sitting ducks. There has been no better negotiating position for Repbulicans than NOW!!!! WIthout reform illegal immigrants will birth us out of influence and they will hate us for preceived grievances against them.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 10, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    UNTIL we have the guts to actually ENFORCE our immigration laws (old OR new)... I say just passing more laws we don't have the guts to enforce is useless.

    When you don't plan to enforce the new law (before you've even passed them).... the politicians proposing them are obviously looking for something else... like maybe votes from a valuable minority group???

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    Good article. Wren reflects the realities of the illegal immigration situation. One only has to see what is happening today to make the connection with the lack of enforcement of
    "The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986".

    We have allowed our country's sovereignty and the prized benefits of American citizenship to become eroded into meaningless words.

    Why is it so difficult for some of our leaders to see what is happening?