@Truth...I'm most certain when you refer to the "low information crowd
that supports Obama" you are referring to the many of us that posses Ivy
League Degrees such as yours truly. The crowd that actually prefers thinking for
ourselves. Try it sometime. It's quite liberating!
I'm honestly confused by the people saying that the Tribune is "failing
as a newspaper", and that "its management simply does not understand
that a business will stay in business only as long as it it profitable, and
profits come from providing goods or serviced that customers will buy", and
that "fewer and fewer people care about buying it". What are your
sources for those statements? All the the statistics I can find show that the
Tribune is doing better than the Deseret News.I like the Deseret
News, but I don't think makes sense for them to distibute the money 70:30
in their favor when the statistics show it should be split about 60:40 in favor
of the Tribune.
"Why does a church own a newspaper?"A lot of comments asked this
question.Churches own lots of things, that's how they survive as
churches. The LDS Church is no different, making investments in a variety of
things. I'm not that sharp on my church history, but I'm pretty
sure the DN has been there a very long time.
Obviously those that support the Tribune are kept from commenting regarding this
article. Being told that my comments are in a "hold" status and awaiting
approval from "Editors". It's been over 15 hours! This alone is a
perfect reason why the people of this State need two voices and news sources.
Especially one that does not practice censorship!
I think the uproar from Tribune fans comes from distribution stastistics. In
March 2014, the Monday-Saturday subscibers for the Tribune were 61,475 verses
40,176 for the Deseret News (source: Allience for Audited Media). The Sunday
subscribers for the same time period were 80,818 for the Tribune and 109,330 for
the Deseret News (same source). However, more than half the Sunday subscibers
for the Deseret News only receive the national faith-based edition, which the
Deseret News practically gives away for free. So based off of distribution
statistics, the Tribune is more lucrative than the Deseret News. I would have to
agree with Tribune supporters: since the Tribune has more money-making
subscribers than the Deseret News, what is the Deseret News' justification
to split the earnings 70:30 in favor of itself?
I stopped reading the Trib several years ago for the same reason as others have
mentioned above. It become so slanted and biased and I wanted a more factual
representation of the news of the day. Reading the DesNews was easier and
although the content leans to the conservative side it's more balanced and
objective than the Trib has been for years. Doesn't hurt my feelings one
bit if the Trib faded away. They brought this on themselves.
Jim Dabakis should buy the Trib and design a strategy to make the Trib
profitable. For those who are emotionally charged because of the Trib's
demise, the printing press is going away. These are big name newspapers who are
in trouble due to lack of readership: 1. Seattle Post-Intelligencer; 2. Rocky
Mountain News; 3. Philadelphia Daily News; 4. Miami Herald; 5. San Francisco
Chronicle; 6. Detroit News; 7. Chicago Sun-Times; 8. St. Paul Pioneer Press; 9.
Los Angeles Times; 10. New York Daily News. It all boils down to substance. I
gave up on reading the Trib because of its lack of newsworthy substances,
although packed with other liberal stuff I do not care for. On the other hand,
DN sometimes print stuff I do not care for either. The demonstrators should pool
their money and buy the Trib so they can compete with others in the market of
ideas for readership. DN must adhere to the core values of its owners while
maintaining its credentials as a newspaper. The Trib did just that. The market
or public has spoken and has determined the Trib's demise. Would you keep
spending money in a business that is losing money despite getting free rent and
Thank heaven the church owns a newspaper! I can read it and not have to worry
about sleazy ads that connect to porn sites. I can also read about values that
reflect my own. That's WHY the church owns a newspaper. Good for the LDS
church! If you don't like it … DON"T BUY IT! It's that
I am in favor of continuing the SLTrib as a commercial venture. To imply that a
newspaper is anything more than that seems rather disingenous. If Dabakis
thinks it is so vital to mantain a "voice" that represents him, please
let him raise the money to buy it himself.
The Tribune has become little more than a dishonest propaganda machine. I used
to read it daily but I, like other Conservative voices, was silenced, and was
banned from commenting TWICE- once for pointing out that hating and threatening
religious minorities is actually hating (activists were posting typical tribhate
and I pointed out that if such things were said about gays, or other more
liberal minority groups, then there would be action, but saying such things
about Conservative religious people seems encouraged by the Tribune (Tribune
responded by disabling my account and explained that they didn't "have
time" to read a different point of view, but they let the hate continue
unfettered and without question). The second time was for telling some truths
about homosexuality (they didn't just delete the comments, but disabled my
account and, again, allowed liberal activists to continue an almost frenzied
dishonest hate festival, it was really sad to watch).
The LDS church, owes no allegiance to the Trib, which bashes it and its policies
at every turn. But as an LDS church member, I am satisfied that my donations go
in part to subsidize the Trib, because I don't want to hear the outrage if
the Trib can't make it on its own. The LDS church can compete with private
business, because that business is owned by the profit making, tax-paying
business the church owns. The argument that a church should not compete with a
private business is based on the idea that a non-taxed organization should not
have a competitive edge over a tax paying organization. That old argument does
not carry any weight as the DN pays taxes on its profits, thus the LDS church is
paying taxes on the profits of a company it owns. Bottom line, Trib lovers - if
you like the Trib buy a subscription.
Anyone who believes Dabakis would hold a rally to save the Deseret News, please
stand on your head...
Article quote: "Sen. Jim Dabakis spoke at the rally at the Salt Lake
City-County Building and like others present, placed the focus on the competing
Deseret News, owned by the LDS Church and for decades a partner with the Tribune
in a joint operating agreement that shares advertising revenues while keeping
the papers' editorial voices separate."Ahhhhh......once
again, those old devils, the Mormons. They cause ALL the problems.Got it.I quite reading the Tribune simply because it was becoming
more and more liberally biased/slanted against the LDS church. The comments
from online readers were routinely over the top and full of hatred and spite
against all things LDS.Is anyone surprised that supporters of the SL
Tribune are blaming the LDS church for its problems? Anyone?And
even here some posters are claiming that the "dominate culture" (code
for "the LDS church") wants to suppress free speech.Riiiight.No, all we want is truth and civility.That's it, guys....simply "truth" and "civility".
@wwookie"Personally, I prefer the tribune, but the online site of the
DNews is much quicker loading between pages, so I read more DNews stories than
sltrib stories"Same. I'd also add that it's actually
possible to have a conversation here in the comments thanks to the moderators
(otherwise it'd just be an awful mess like the Tribunes comment forums,
except of course the partisan skew here would be like The Blaze's comment
To those complaining about 'slanted' news on the Trib, you should try
reading the articles in the DN. Talk about slant!
If they get rid of the Tribune, I won't bother to read the local paper at
all. I don't mind reading the Deseret News, but it is all from the Mormon
point of view and it gets old very fast! We have enough of it every day! I
shouldn't be that way. I have read a lot of good articles and opinions in
the Deseret News, but I , along with many others like to hear about stories and
opinions that are different! Mormons don't seem to do that. When I worked
at History, I would take in money for the newsletter. Every single time that
they printed a story about non Mormons, I would get nasty notes and even phone
calls. people would tell me that if they were going to print Catholic history or
some other non Mormon story, they would stop taking the newsletter! I am not
kidding! That is how it is in this state, a lot of people simply ignore all the
great things that are not Mormon! This is just another example. Oh well, that is
life. Life goes on.
interesting that those complaining that the SL market will be down to only one
voice are sounding their alarm on the internet, where there are untold millions
of voices. Don't like the DN, look for news on-line. Who needs the trib
The low information Voters of the SLTRIB who bought Obama's line about
spreading the wealth are finding out, that unless you make a profit, you will go
the way of the buggy whip. To bad the owners of the tribune didn't realize
that until it is now too late!The tribune is so out of touch just
read the archive of bagheads cartoons and you will quickly see why!
To those saying that we need mroe diversity, look at the source for most of the
articles within the DN.Most of the articles come from 2 sources, the
AP or Reuters. Does it really matter if it is the DN or the Tribues that
collects and arranges the articles? The only difference between the 2 papers
are local stories and opinion pieces. Since the tribues is dying slowly, its
supporters should ask why before they blame the DN.
Why is the Tribune failing? It is an easy answer, they lost their niche. DNews
is produced by the LDS church and has a natural readership. Why does the LDS
church need a newspaper? Because they feel they have a message worth sharing
and one way to ensure that the message makes it into the world is to have their
own media outlets. The SLT offered a different perspective and
that worked for many years in Salt Lake. However today, if you want a different
perspective you can go to hundreds of websites, like the New York Times, and get
almost the same perspective. The DNews attracts a world audience,
so their readership is larger than Salt Lake, but so far the Tribune's
market place is the every shrinking print media news in the Salt Lake market. I
used to be a former Tribune subscriber when I lived in SLC, but I go to their
website and find nothing that I want to read. Unless the Tribune can find a new
niche, unfortunately the only thing ahead is more decline until it disappears.
THe only reason that I even look at the Tribune is because I read Kirby, and
look at the occasional Bagley cartoon. No other reason for reading it.
If the tribune has people who want to subscribe and/or support financially, they
will be fine. If the don't have the quality people want, they will
eventually go under. That's how freedom and natural law work. Freedom of
speech exists with or without the tribune. But the tribune can't decide
what the consequences are if they decide to use that speech in a way that few
want to hear what they say. Personally, I prefer the tribune, but
the online site of the DNews is much quicker loading between pages, so I read
more DNews stories than sltrib stories as I spend about 15 mins per day reading
Some people nailed to problem without realizing it. Papers aren't supposed
to be about "liberal" or "conservative" views. We have plenty of
magazines, radio and tv shows for that purpose. Newspapers are supposed to be
about news. They're [News]papers, not agenda papers. The Tribune stopped
objectively reporting the news years ago. Their reporting is so slanted, they
should change the name of the paper to the "Blame Bush" Gazette. The
rally was a pathetic, misguided attempt to save the paper. It fails to address
the real problem, which is people aren't interested in reading the Tribune.
Rather than find ways to generate interest, the rally attendees played the blame
game. Go ahead, stay on that path. If you listen carefully, you'll hear the
sound of the Tribune sinking from sight forever.
LoveTheKittensCentral, UT@bobdc6"Why doesn't
every Church own a newspaper? Are they somehow excluded from 'Freedom of
the Press'?"Just like government, a church shouldn't
compete with a private business.
Why should the DesNews (Church) subsidize a poorly run company? Why should the
DesNews (Church) not demand an equitable agreement with the Trib? Why
does'nt the Trib just the DesNews (Church) that it can be profitable on it
own and do everything itself? Why do all you Trib lovers come here to post your
grievances and not BUY a subscription to the Trib?A contract that
does not make sense for both parties, is not a fair contract.
@bobdc6Why doesn't every Church own a newspaper? Are they
somehow excluded from 'Freedom of the Press'?
I hope that the paper does not go under. It is dangerous to only see the world
through one view point. Utah needs both a liberal and a conservative paper.
We take both newspapers at our house. Have done so for years. We value both.
Each publishes stories the other doesn't. Taken together, one gets a more
complete awareness of events and viewpoints in our community and state. They are
equally important and enlightening.
The Trib's economic performance is comparable to local and regional papers
that seem to be finding a path toward a sustainable baseline. The killers,
unique to the Trib, are owners (a hedge fund) that will not re-invest profits in
a digital future and a new amendment to the joint operating agreement amendment.
Right now, the Trib only gets 30 percent of the revenue it generates with its
partner, the Deseret News. From all appearances, the amendment violates
anti-trust provisions of the Newspaper Preservation Act. The rally demonstrates
community support for a Justice Department investigation.
The Trib's economic performance is comparable to local and regional papers
that seem to be finding a path to sustainability. The killers, unique to the
Trib, are owners (a hedge fund) that will not re-invest profits in the
newspaper's digital future and a new amendment to the joint operating
agreement amendment. Right now, the Trib only gets 30 percent of the revenue it
generates with its partner, the Deseret News. From all appearances, the
amendment is using anti-trust exemptions built into the Newspaper Preservation
Act to further strategic business interests of both Alden Global/Digital First
and Deseret News Publishing Co. The rally demonstrates community support for a
Justice Department investigation.A CLARIFICATION from Digital First:
"New York, N.Y. (December 30, 2013) – Digital First Media today
announced the MediaNews Group and 21st Century Media combination has been
finalized and that the two Companies will operate under the Digital First Media
name. The transaction, first announced on December 17, brings together the two
companies jointly managed by Digital First Media under one name."
It used to be that I would go to the Trib first and see what was there. Then I
would come here to the DN. That was my routine for many years. In the past year,
I have noticed that I come to the DN first, then the Wall Street Journal, then
-- If I remember -- I will glance at the Trib to see if there was anything worth
reading. It was never a conscious decision. It just started happening. Now, I
might go several days before it occurs to me to check the Trib. WHY? DN
SUBSCRIBER's comment above is right on target. The Trib has simply lost its
credibility. I'm not sure its worth saving. But if they want to be saved,
they need to start producing a product that is worth reading.
The Tribune doesn't pay rental fees because that is part of the or used
JOA. The DNews gets 70% of all advertising revenue that comes from print,,but
but is responsible for maintainence and operation of the facility. The Trib
gets less of a share, but also cut their operating cost due to not paying rent,
nor paying for upkeep on the machinery at the print facility. In addition
their owners were paid millions of dollars by the news when the JOA was
renegotiated.The Tribune asked for the new deal and was excited to
sign it. Not sure how the DNews is the bad guy here.
Being critical is easy, but the Tribune is voice, even though fewer and fewer
people care about that voice. It fills a role to show a contrasting opinion on
Utah politics. Having two voices, one conservative and the other liberal, helps
people to compare and to contrast. The rule that I follow is to ask, "What
would happen if everybody thought that way?". Asking that question often
puts me at odds with the Tribune and sometimes with the Deseret News. But
reading the Tribune's liberal letters and editorials always reminds me that
not everyone sees the world the same.
Jim Dabakis I am singing an old song for you. It's name is Cry "Me A
Dear DN Subscriber: My husband (a newspaper addict) used to take both papers.
He cancelled the Trib about three years ago because he just got sick of the
biased content and the anti-Mormon slant of the paper. He'd just had it
and didn't want to waste any more of his time reading it. If the Trib is
in trouble, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Why does a church own a newspaper?
@BrentBotBecause their combined profits are now split 70:30 for the
Deseret News (that's where the perceived harm to the Tribune comes from,
the belief that they will be handing over too much to be able to survive). The
previous split favored the Tribune since they had the higher circulation.
I used to by the Trib everyday on the newsstand because I wasn't ever sure
where I would be but about five years ago I just couldn't do it any longer.
Now when I read it I remember why I don't buy it still. Definitely a
newspaper that lost its way. To bad, I was a delivery boy for the tribune years
Sen. Jim Dabakis is mistaken that somehow there is an obligation for diversified
news media in he SLC market. The obligation the newspapers have is to their
owners to create profit.Newspapers (and other news media) have
always been and will continue to be free enterprise businesses who's sole
interest is creating revenue through selling advertising. This is accomplished
by providing content that creates enough interest by subscribers/viewers to view
the news content who are then exposed to the advertising. It is really a simple
equation and hope of altruistic motives are irrational and irrelevant as are
rallies to promote such.
Tribune Editor and Publisher Terry Orme's comments at the rally (reported
it he story) exemplify why the Tribuen is failing as a newspaper. Its management simply does not understand that a business will stay in
business only as long as it it profitable, and profits come from providing goods
or serviced that customers will buy. If all the Tribune addicts who
love it so much want to see it stay in business, here are some things they can
do:Offer to work for the Trib for free (or minimum wage) as reporters,
editors, printers or in distribution. Sell them ink and newsprint at
cheaper prices. Rent them office space at cheap prices.Buy extra copies
of the paper. Give away subscriptions to your (soon to be ex-)friends and let
them see what is in the Tribune.Offer to pay higher prices for the
Tribune.See? It is simple to help the Tribune, if you really want
to.Of course, if the Trib started reporting factual news instead of
leftist talking points and advocacy journalism, they might sell more papers, and
reverse their plummeting circulation.
Why does the Deseret News offer its printing facilities for free?