Brad Rock: BYU's biggest worry isn't scheduling, it's investigations

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  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    May 29, 2014 2:39 p.m.

    Article quote: "Utah ran afoul of the governing body in the 1980s for providing Jason Buck a 12-mile ride home after a recruiting visit. Former Ute basketball coach Rick Majerus got in trouble for things like providing cookies to players and taking them to a restaurant. Utah State fired a tennis coach for violating recruiting rules. Ron Abegglen, the former Weber State basketball coach, loaned his pickup to a player and ended up getting sanctioned."

    Many of the NCAA's rules regarding "gifts", etc to players are not only ridiculous (trouble for giving someone a whopping 12-mile ride?) they are hypocritical in the extreme.

    Big-time University X: "Our coach can't give you a so much as his half-eaten Twinkie because it costs money but yet we'll make MILLIONS off of you."


  • Pendergast Salt Lake City, UT
    May 26, 2014 8:52 p.m.

    RE Wookie;

    "BYU should focus on becoming the Harvard of the West"

    Byu isn't even the Northwestern of Utah County, but, its better to aim for the stars & miss then aim for mud puddle and hit it dead on."

  • GK Willington Salt Lake City, UT
    May 26, 2014 8:44 p.m.

    re: Brave Sir Robin

    " have to wonder how long church leadership is going to continue to allow the church to be embarrassed. I doubt this latest scandal will have people flocking to the waters of baptism."

    The church did nothing to offer a caveat when Glenn Beck was spouting off about Social Justice. So, I doubt anything will be done this time.

    Now, if you so naive or shallow enough to let a college football program have any bearing on "real life" then you need a serious wake up call.

  • iNKSpot Wilsonville, OR
    May 25, 2014 5:52 a.m.

    I remember years ago at an Education Week presentation before hundreds of fans Coach Edwards cautioned all present against providing anything to athletes that might possibly be viewed as contrary to NCAA rules because of how it would reflect on the University and, ultimately, the Church.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    May 24, 2014 8:33 a.m.

    Maybe it is time to quit intercollegiate athletics at BYU

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 9:18 p.m.

    Wow, what a bunch of over-reaction about nothing!. I say relax and get ready for another exciting season. Hope Utah's season is more exciting than it has been the last three years - can't be much fun going to the rump on the hump sofa bowl again after having another losing season.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 23, 2014 3:30 p.m.


    "BYU will be just fine and football will go on."

    What a great example of a true blue coug. For it has been written:

    "And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear the NCAA-it will justify in committing some infractions; yea lie a little, give advantage to one because of his recruit star rating, dig a pit they big brother to the north; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we can point the finger at somebody else; and if is so be that we are guilty, the NCAA will let the refs throw garbage on us, and at last we shall be saved with a Big 12 invite."

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    May 23, 2014 1:23 p.m.

    Mr Rock are you insinuating that other schools have something to do with this? What is the purpose of this statement?
    'Which brings up something else that occurs at most big college programs: jealousy and rivalries.'
    Is this an attempt to deflect blame to some other university?

  • #1 SLC Sports Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 11:56 a.m.

    @U-PAC: It isn't president Monson's decision alone, but rather the combined 1st Presidency & Twelve in conjunction with the Board of Trustees whom these brethren rotate on and off. There has been without question debate over the years about the future of college athletics at BYU, how it potentially detracts from the mission of state schools, as well as the future of post-graduate academics;
    --The Law School could also be closed in a New York minute due to the John Swallow Scandal, and no doubt has been discussed.
    --Some of the brethren have no doubt long opposed BYU attempting to move into a P5 league athletic alignemnt with either the Big 12 or Pac-12 feeling this will further make irrelevant the athletic programs of Utah State University, which is all BYU has really accomplished over the past half century.
    What "could" happen at Utah Valley University with ahtletic program growth could be the wildcard in any future decision making about BYU and the future.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    @ Old But Not Stupid

    The context is not properly portrayed in the small segment that I quoted. It was obvious that the OP was downplaying upsets that happen. He cited Utah beating Stanford and UVA beating BYU as examples of such. I personally disagree. Upsets are what make CFB so great, and they happen on a weekly basis. If they didn't then there would no need to even play a season. Just release pre-season rankings and that would be that....

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    May 23, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    I agree with the posts regarding how long the Church Leadership will tolerate how embarrasing BYU sports and some of their fans have become. This is no missionary tool. This is not representative of our faith. This is sad. I personally hope that BYU sports goes away and that they focus on efforts to display what good our faith does in the world. Once upon a time sports was clean, entertaining and uplifting. Now, when one wins a championship in the backs of most individual's minds, we ask, were they taking PEDs, was it rigged, was betting to blame, etc... I think BYU should focus on becoming the Harvard of the West and use the brain power and resources that are already there, and use it for good. Sports has not proven to meet this expectation of me and many others of this faith.

    Go UTES!!

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    May 23, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    Two For Flinching
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "'Upsets happen and are just that... upsets. By definition, they don't usually mean much.'

    Wrong. Upsets can define or ruin an entire season."

    Two FF- did you mean to state that you agreed with the poster you quoted? He used a qualifier ("usually") and you avoided any qualifier such as "always" or "usually." Your simple usage of the word "can" which leaves your assertion ambiguous. This ambiguity leaves very little difference between the the two statements.

    So do you want to revise your statement?

    May 23, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    Outside the state of Utah, BYU sports has consistently been a positive tool to increase name recognition of the church.
    Inside the state of Utah, a group of "nay sayers" consistently try to dull the luster on BYU sports to promote their own agenda.
    This includes Brad Rock - head "nay sayer" and general "reluctant fan" for BYU.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 23, 2014 8:31 a.m.

    ALTADENA, CA said:

    "@ Uncle Rico:
    Try Nebraska and Michigan in 2015; Arizona, Utah, West Virgina in 2016; Utah, Cal in 2017; Arizona, Wisconsin, Utah in 2018; wisconsin, Virgina, USC, Wasington State in 2019; Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford, Virginia in 2020. Throw in Boise State every year too. Get you facts straight."

    Yeah great, they are scheduled to play them. Any of those schools can back out at any time. Has happened before to BYU. With the new playoff format, expect more to happen.

  • Guam_Bomb BARRIGADA, GU
    May 22, 2014 7:08 p.m.

    This really shouldn't be a huge issue. Nobody even knows what's happened because the investigation is just starting and people are already predicting the death of the program. If something has happened it will be dealt with in an appropriate manner, BYU's leadership has consistently shown a commitment to running a clean program.

    As a Utah fan, I take no pleasure in seeing BYU's program facing this type of investigation. What seems to get lost in all the noise is that hundreds of young men have done things the right way over the years. It's must be a huge disappointment for those who are currently in the program to potentially see their opportunities diminished because a few didn't follow the rules.

  • CA. reader Rocklin, CA
    May 22, 2014 5:57 p.m.

    How do get from BYU conducting an internal investigation to the death of football and all sports at BYU? Some of you folks are either so caught up in these things that you have no grasp of reality or you simply have no grasp of reality. Give it a rest. All your carping isn't going to get Utah out of the PAC10.2 cellar. My confidence lies with the BYU staff and the board, who happen to be General Authorities.

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    May 22, 2014 4:57 p.m.


  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 22, 2014 4:55 p.m.

    "Upsets happen and are just that... upsets. By definition, they don't usually mean much."

    Wrong. Upsets can define or ruin an entire season.

  • Adirondack Cougar Loon Lake, NY
    May 22, 2014 4:04 p.m.

    This article isn't that alarming, from what is known now. The U fans have visions of free cars, housing, trips etc. to players, something that would cause a 'death sentence' to the program by the NCAA. And they seem to delight in the possibility. I don't doubt that something happened, and as soon as it was discovered it was dealt with. None of us is perfect and we all make mistakes, so let's see what the mistake pair of socks or free cars? The punishment will fit the crime. Utah fans might want to slow down a little, it could be your turn next.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    May 22, 2014 3:51 p.m.

    If this story grows, BYU football is in serious trouble. Perhaps it is severe enough under the current scheduling conditions that we could see an exit strategy developed to eventually get BYU out of college football. In the long run, while it may break my football-loving heart, it may be better for BYU. BYU could then become more about academics and faith.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 22, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    These boards are the go-to for people to come and overreact. If BYU is guilty of infractions, I hope they receive a fair and full punishment. I assume it would at most be like loss of a scholarship or two, a reduction of a few recruit hosting days, etc.

    In the grand scheme of morality, this is like a parking violation. Sure it was incosiderate of the person who illegally parked, but he can pay the ticket without needing some drastic punishment to his driving privileges.

  • 32843 PROVO, UT
    May 22, 2014 3:44 p.m.

    Salt Lake City, UT
    "That's one way to get exposure on ESPN."

    It's the only way Utah would get exposure on ESPN.

  • SEC Rules Seminole, FL
    May 22, 2014 3:40 p.m.

    Say it aint so, Bronco !

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 22, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    Layton, UT
    BYU will be just fine and football will go on.


    I love reading these replies.

    It's the go-to for ignorist fans who don't want to give a serious look at the problem(s) because they are afraid of what they might find and the possible repercussions.

    Instead, they choose to make believe everything is "just fine."


  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 22, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    What is so bad about following the Gonzaga model? Drop the football program and play basketball in the WCC along with Gonzaga and allow the other sports to compete there as well.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    May 22, 2014 1:10 p.m.

    @ Stringer Bell:

    What part of "ranked-team road-wins" is anything but a win to you or anyone else? It's a simple straight forward term that means exactly what it says... wins. So exactly why should I need to be careful?

    Most people and ranking services can keep the occasional upset that nearly every team experiences into proper context and will seldom read too much into singular instances like Utah tend to do.
    Stanford's upset loss to a team like Utah (that hasn't been ranked in years) didn't ruin their season. And neither did BYU's loss to Virginia. Pundits saw that BYU statistically dominated that game with literally 50% more first-downs and yardage (both passing and running). As such, it was seen as fluke.
    Upsets happen and are just that... upsets. By definition, they don't usually mean much.

    Utah has beaten BYU for several years in a row. And yet national ranking services tout BYU's wins over a ranked Texas team or a previously unbeaten Houston team (on the road) as much more meaningful. BYU has continued to spend much more time nationally ranked than Utah through all those years.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    May 22, 2014 12:41 p.m.

    When you mix a missionary tool with athletics you get a lot more attention whether it's deserved or not. Outside of a few zealots, nobody actually believes when you do things right, on and off the field, magic happens.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    May 22, 2014 12:26 p.m.


    "Ranked-team road-wins actually mean more to national ranking services."

    Yes they do, providing you win the game. Losing to an "actual" bottom dweller like Virginia means more to national ranking services too. Be careful, it works both ways.

  • Idahotransplant West Jordan, UT
    May 22, 2014 12:10 p.m.

    If all this happened over the years and the if BYU has known about it sinch March, they have been quick to discipline (Brandon Davies, Harvey Unga, Spencer Handley, etc.). If they new of current athletes then wouldn't one want to speculate that those who may have been involved did not participate in Spring football?

  • daver Provo, 00
    May 22, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    Just when the team seemed to have all of the elements for a formidable secondary and a workable offense - now some key offensive players may have to sit. Shades of Crowton's demise. Thanks to all involved - just like in Crowton's deal: THE TIMING COULDN'T HAVE BEEN BETTER!

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    May 22, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    So someone gives a kid a ride home or a coach gives a player a slice of pizza... and that's supposed to be a notable infraction of rules? That both sounds and seems utterly ridiculous.

    We've gone way beyond the intent and purpose of the original NCAA sports rules to worrying too much about the letter of the law... and there are now way too many letters written into the rules. It's become silly and is creating issues where and when there really shouldn't be any. The original intent of such rules has been lost in many instances.

  • Pearl.94 Riverton, UT
    May 22, 2014 11:34 a.m.

    I have always been under the impression that athletic scholarships include room and board. Is that not true? I know that dorms and on-campus living might not be ideal. Are some athletes just too cool to live on campus in the 'free' housing that is part of the scholarship?

  • DonO Draper, UT
    May 22, 2014 11:20 a.m.

    This is more evidence to me that major college football, and all the obvious negatives that go with it, are out of sync with the stated mission of BYU and its owners. Unless or until both BYU and the LDS Church come to grips with and take steps to deal with this reality, what is normal for other schools will continue to be a distracting scandal at BYU and, by extension, Church headquarters.

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    May 22, 2014 11:07 a.m.

    BYU will be just fine and football will go on.

  • CodyCougar Madison, SD
    May 22, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    Now we know why Samuelson was ushered out. It's time for Holmoe to go, this is just another in a string of poor management he has shown.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 22, 2014 10:35 a.m.

    Whether Busby knew he was breaking the rules or not remains to be seen, but somebody at BYU knew the things he was doing were against the rules and when someone high enough up the chain finally found out about it he was forced out. You don't force a person out of a job they have held for 18 years unless something really bad happened. When Busby left Bronco talked about how valued he was and how much he would be missed. It remains to be seen whether or not Bronco knew about the allegations at that time, but I would be willing to bet he did. One other thing that increases the severity in cases like this is a pattern of behavior over a long period of time. In other words, if he had been doing this for years as the allegations have said, then it becomes a much more serious matter than if he just wanted to help a player or two who were down on their luck last season.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    May 22, 2014 10:05 a.m.

    My facts are straight. I said home games (as in those played in Provo). Anyone can play road games against good teams.

    In the next 3 seasons only 1 power conference school is scheduled to come to provo (and it is Virginia)

    2014: Virginia
    2015: no one
    2016: no one

  • lixircat Indianapolis, IN
    May 22, 2014 9:36 a.m.

    @ BraveSirRobin
    I lived in upstate NY for a few years near Jimmer's home town of Glens Falls. The first time I drove through the town I was surprised to see 4 or 5 guys wearing Jimmer BYU jerseys walking the streets of "downtown". The elders up there said they got stopped all the time by people asking about Jimmer and BYU.
    Now I am NOT saying that I know of anyone who got baptized because of that exposure, but having people approach the missionaries instead of the other way around can't be a bad thing.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    May 22, 2014 9:17 a.m.

    That's one way to get exposure on ESPN.

  • I Choose Freedom Atlanta, GA
    May 22, 2014 8:43 a.m.

    It is amazing to me how much fanaticism there is surrounding sports. On the "What's REALLY important in life?" scale sports doesn't even show up. But so many of the people that comment on here seem to think that is the ONLY thing that is important.

    I enjoy watching BYU sports and have since 1978. But if the church leadership decided to drop all sports programs like they have at their other schools I would not lose one minutes sleep over it. Sports is nothing more than entertainment to me. Do I enjoy watching good LDS kids give their all on the field of play? Yes. But if BYU sports were to go away I'll easily find something else to do with that time. Probably something a lot more important.

    For sure, my testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in no way is contingent upon BYU fielding s sports program.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    May 22, 2014 8:27 a.m.

    Many byu fans called the firing of Chris Hill over a mean swim coach. If that's the case then this should bring down Holmoe, Bronco and several others.
    This is a MUCH bigger deal than a coach who yelled at his athletes.

  • ItrustNo1 La Grange, TN
    May 22, 2014 7:24 a.m.

    I understand the Church's need to maintain its reputation both on and off the field. Anyone paying attention understands how vested BYU and has put its money where its mouth is by proving its athletes facilities and an environment second to none. That said, BYU has to get aggressive about joining a major conference and start playing and winning against the Big Boys or think about getting out. The last four years have been a mess on the football field, and is why the SEC and ACC are looking at BYU as a has been program. The home games are horrible and little by little we are losing the fan base much like all those years that the Basketball team was losing. Celebrating all these games that we are playing on the road while our stadium remains empty or hosting High School caliber teams is killing any hopes of joining a major conference or being respected enough on the field to be viewed by the SEC and ACC as worthy of them playing us. I hope BYU and the Church will get serious about being a muscle in college football before its to late. Call the BIG 12 today

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    May 22, 2014 4:26 a.m.

    No Brad, BYU's biggest worry isn't scheduling or investigations - it's the church. More specifically, how long will the church put up with this? BYU athletics has become detrimental to its stated missionary purpose. When there are issues with player behavior (football players cussing at fans - 3 million views on YouTube), fan behavior (fans throwing garbage at refs - 8 million views on YouTube), lack of relevance in football (P5, Notre Dame, MWC not willing to schedule BYU), and lack of institutional control (improper benefits provided by a member of the staff is way worse than when it's done by a booster), you have to wonder how long church leadership is going to continue to allow the church to be embarrassed. I doubt this latest scandal will have people flocking to the waters of baptism.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    May 22, 2014 12:44 a.m.


    Yes cookie like stuff sounds minor. Still, a corrupt NCAA punishes teams that threaten their power. Utah and Boise State got penalized for pizza and cookies while Ohio State commits major violations and a never ending investigation pretends to take place. Meanwhile, star players involved play in BCS games and only get suspended the following year for a preseason Division II tune game where the Buckeyes can win by 28 with their third string starting across the board.

    The sanctions Boise State received ushered in Chris Petersen's departure, as he finally realized his Broncos would only be allowed to prosper so far. Since then, a significant fall has taken place in Boise. Sure they win 9 or 10 games a year like BYU (with a weak schedule) but they are not the same team. Recruiting against bigger schools is hard enough, but take away scholarships and the effects are huge.

    I don't know what to make of this speculative hyped drama in Provo right now. It could be minor. It's just a crazy week of downer news at BYU.

    As for the SEC conversation. Yes this is minor and they get away with major. There is the difference.

  • theDailyObserver Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 22, 2014 12:32 a.m.

    Regardless of what comes out of this investigation, it's easy to see why schools in the P5 conferences are building walls to buffer themselves from the NCAA.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    May 21, 2014 11:59 p.m.

    This is one of those stories that seems to feed on itself. We've got few real details yet the speculation seems to grow exponentially. I have a hunch that there is a good deal less going on here than meets the eye. Unfortunately the mere existence of an investigation is often more damaging than what really happened.

  • rtimesr2 ALTADENA, CA
    May 21, 2014 11:55 p.m.

    @ Uncle Rico:
    Try Nebraska and Michigan in 2015; Arizona, Utah, West Virgina in 2016; Utah, Cal in 2017; Arizona, Wisconsin, Utah in 2018; wisconsin, Virgina, USC, Wasington State in 2019; Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford, Virginia in 2020. Throw in Boise State every year too. Get you facts straight.

  • xam Provo, UT
    May 21, 2014 11:53 p.m.

    I'm sure the violations were relatively harmless. However, I would have to agree with Riley Mendenhall that using the football program as a missionary tool and to gain exposure may not be the right formula. These types of events along with fans pelting referees with garbage and players getting expelled following assault investigations are like taking two steps back for every step forward. Back to the drawing board.

  • Uncle festis Pasadena, CA
    May 21, 2014 11:26 p.m.

    Why do I feel like supplying rent and giving money to players from 1997-2013 is a little more extreme than majerus throwing a pizza party Rockmonster?
    Did you even hear Gerard's research from former players. Seems like they weren't too slow to sell out BYU

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    May 21, 2014 10:18 p.m.

    BYU knew they would get caught and had to change their ways this upcoming year.
    Why else would this years slogan be "Will over Skill" ?

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 21, 2014 9:42 p.m.

    Meh. It isn't BYU that may have violated NCAA rules. It was a single, lone employee! If others knew about it, then it's a problem but this sounds minor, like buying cookies or meals for basketball players. If it was a lone individual and he was asked to leave, that's quick action vs. trying to cover anything up. Hoffman's agent/manager admitted he was given a pair of socks..........believing it was from the equipment room. I can't wait for the facts to come out vs. the media trying to sell clicks.

    I spoke to a former SEC basketball coach on a recent flight. Not even close to what SEC players are involved with. And this came directly from the former coach.

  • RR_Xing San Diego, CA
    May 21, 2014 9:23 p.m.

    Three weeks ago I couldn't see BYU giving up sports like the other BYU campuses have. It's not so hard to imagine now.

  • Riley Mendenhall Provo, UT
    May 21, 2014 9:09 p.m.

    Not the missionary tool it was envisioned to be.
    Time to follow the example of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii.
    Intramural sports are fun.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    May 21, 2014 9:01 p.m.

    Scheduling still is the biggest issue.

    BYU cannot get any good home games, sure they got Texas this last year, but this was a fluke. Especially with the latest announcements from the ACC and SEC.

    BYU home schedule against power conference schools.
    2014: Virginia
    2015: none scheduled
    2016: none scheduled

    BYU plays Virginia in Sep 2014, after that their next power conference team scheduled to visit Provo is Utah in Sep 2017.