Lost in DC, I believe you think that Medicaid expansion does nothing to
strengthen families. Here's a true story that happened to a family in
Washington whose kids were patients of our pediatrician.The couple
did not have insurance. The wife became pregnant with twins. They were born
prematurely, and were hospitalized for a month. The husband tried valiantly to
keep up the payments on the bills, and took a second job, working nights. He
was driving home at midnight and fell asleep at the wheel--the car went off the
road and the man was thrown out, landing face down in a ditch. He drowned--in
six inches of water. Insurance may not "strengthen"
families, but the lack of it can destroy them.
Kora, your brother-in-law may be able to pay his bills most of the time on an
$11 an hour salary, but he will be flat out of luck if he or his dependents get
sick. It's not just the deductible that can kill you; the services that
are covered at, say, 80% can do you in when you have $55,000 of them.
Don't believe me? Go down to your local Bankruptcy Court and just read the
last ten cases filed. For at least five of them, the people are declaring
bankruptcy because of mega-thousands of medical bills. And, thanks to your find
governor, they didn't have insurance.
This is another example of how the GOP does not govern well. They do not want
to vote or be held accountable, so 140,000 Utah citizens will use the current
system of going to the ER for health care. Hospitals and insurance providers
will continue to pass that bill in to policy holders and insurance companies.
If we put the members of the government on that kind of health care, you bet
they would have a one day session. The GOP is afraid to govern or vote.
@DN News Subscriber...Sir may I say thank you for yet another extremely
articulate and comical post. Once again you begin my day with not only head
scratching but extreme laughter. Where would you find material for your comments
if it were not for Faux News?
@SchneeIt is politically impossible to reduce spending on a social
program. Once the program has been expanded, contracting again when the fed
stops funding it is simply not a reality.Social liberals know this.
They count on it. Anyone who believes that isn't exactly the reason this
part of the ACA was put in is simply not being truthful with themselves.
Again, folks like @lost in DC need to stop believing when the pundits drone on
about how this politician is untrustworthy or that politician is evil. As an
example, Barack Obama has done nothing more (arguably less) than any other
modern president to deserve this kind of vitriol. Oh, and please refrain from
trying to prove me wrong with some example about Benghazi.When you
repeat semi-slanderous stuff like this it hurts everybody because people on the
other side of an issue just stop listening to you and dismiss you simply being
inside the "bubble," as or worse. For the sake of our
democracy/republic, we need to stop with the name calling. It hurts us all in
Schnee,and you believe what they are telling you?with all due
respect to Spangs, BO has shown he is anything BUT trustworthy.of
course, if you expand, then exit, all the liberals would accuse you of killing
I would recommend looking at the comment from DN Subscriber. I guarantee that
well over 50% of all Utahns agree with some form of this comment. He makes a
great point about 'Medicare for all' being a better choice than what
we have going at this time. And he makes an even better argument about how we
are going to pay for it. These are very valid points and should be what we
discuss in the public sphere. But folks like DN Subscriber need to grow up on
a few things:1. The whole "President and/or Democrats and/or
moderate Republicans can't be trusted" thing is ridiculous and
childish. This drivel is destroying our democracy. He should stop saying it. 2. Our current medical system is not working for 30% of our population and
something needs to change. It is even more expensive than the
'socialist' alternatives he hates. 3. Keeping $250 million from
Utah's uninsured is unethical and just plain wrong. We also pay anyway:
EMTALA laws state we must treat anyone that comes into an emergency room. Why
not do it in a cost-effective way? Say, preventative care?
@lost in DC"Nope, cannot end it once you expand it."Centers for Medicare/Medicaid Services officials have said that states can
exit the expansion if they want to.
@Kora...Possibly this i-pad along with these other items you speak of were
gifts? Could this patient have had a recent birthday? Possibly they were
borrowing these items? According to this logic there are numerous young drivers
in the Sandy/Draper area that own luxury automobiles! Personally, I assume these
vehicles belong to their parents.
Gov. Herbert is probably thinking we have met the enemy and it is us. Good luck
dealing with the radical right wing.
@werno perception here. I simply want the money the fed is already
taking from me for healthcare back. They are willing, but our legislature
won't take it. As a father of a son whose wife and child are caught in the
gap, I am more than disappointed in the actions of our politicians. Make no
mistake, this is pure politics, and it is making me ill!
Good, hope there is enough opposition he just bags the idea.Dave T
in OgdenExpanding Medicaid does not do anything to strengthen families.RFLASHIt’s wonderful to see how much the legislature DOES
care about the people in this state.Schnee,Nope, cannot end it
once you expand it.mcdugallYou justify breaking/ignoring laws?
Sorry, not a laughing matter.
lots of takers on this posting. doesn't anyone understand that everytime we
take money (ours) back from the feds utah and its' people are more
beholding to this corrupt fereral government? who do you think is going to pay
for this,......our KIDS and Grandkids.
There is this ever growing perception, even in conservative Utah, that no matter
what, getting money from the Feds will solve the problem. And this perception is
part of what has gotten to where we are: a crummy economy, everybody's
cousin with their hands out for the dole, leaders that have no moral compass,
and little accountability at all levels of society.Truth: the less
federal money and the more local money will benefit us all!
@Kirk R GravesUtah could always take the Medicaid money for now and then
just end the expansion when the federal gov't is only funding 90% of it
instead of 100%. Or is it just politically easier for you all to never give
people insurance instead of taking things away from people a couple years from
This is what happens when you live in a theocracy that lacks diversity of
perspectives and voices in government. We have wealthy people who clearly do not
understand the issue or what it is like to struggle with such issues. Think of
this, this state invests tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of
dollars in students like me so we can go to college and improve our ability to
earn money. Eventually, God willing, I will be able to get out of school and
become both more self-sufficient and more able to contribute to the revenue that
allows us to function as a society. However, I still can't afford the
health insurance programs that have been made available and so I continue to go
without health insurance. College students are overrepresented as people who
typically do not have health insurance coverage. It is a funny way to treat such
an investmentment and says a great deal about the level of ignorance of our
state leaders. We just don't believe in the potential of people or the
thing that made us a great nation, each other.
@DN Subscriber - I needed a good laugh this morning. BO ignores laws? What
Presidential Administration has not? The Medicaid expansion funds decrease from
100% funding over a period of years to the statutory limit of 90% going
henceforth. The nation isn't bankrupt, not sure why you think it is? Do we
have a large amount of debt? Yes, Is it currently manageable, Yes. It is
optimal, No. But we're certainly not to the point of bankruptcy. Chinese
bankers? Well, I'm not sure if you heard but the Chinese government and
their agencies are continually divesting from US bonds.The vast majority of the
US Government's debts are owned by US citizens, companies, and pension
plans. The Chinese government isn't even the largest institutional owner of
US debt, they only account for 7%, as of 11/2013, and their holdings continue to
decrease. The Margaret Thatcher quote is quite humorous. Socialization is a very
complicated issue and the US actively socializes the costs for many services,
roads, defense, water, corporate profits, food, energy, why is helping the poor
gain access to health care services bad socialism?
Dave T- Minimum wage was never meant to raise a family. If you want to make more
than minimum wage, you get educated to do more than flip hamburgers. If you are
unwilling to do that, why are you entitled to a higher wage? We are only
entitled to opportunities. What we do with those opportunities is our own
responsibility, no one else's. I grew up poor and used my opportunities
wisely.As for the inability to afford health insurance, I feel bad
for many of these people. Many truly cannot afford it, but at the same time, I
saw a patient yesterday with Medicaid who had a newer IPad, an IPhone 5, and
Bluetooth headphones around his neck. Not a cheap package of items. How could he
afford them if he is so poor he qualifies for Medicaid? People have priorities,
and for many paying for health care is not one of them.My brother in
law only makes about $11/hr and has poor health insurance due to a large
deductible. If he manages his money right, he can afford all his expenses. It is
when he is foolish with his money that he runs into trouble.
It is disturbing how little our legislature cares about people in our state! The
only reason that they don't want to use thesefunds is because they
don't want Obama to have any success with his health care plan! Actually, I
think it is disgusting the way they care so little about people in need! As long
as they have what they need!
For those of you in support of this issue, especially those who are saying
"just do it", there is a lot more to the story than just free money from
the fed. Most significantly is that the federal money promised is
only short term. It is much like the Race to the Top money used as a carrot to
get states to adopt Common Core. We will see it for a short while, then it
disappears. The federal government wants to invite us to lunch, pay for the
beverages (with our money, none the less), then walk away before the rest of the
check shows up. Utah has managed to be a very well run state
financially. That is because we are smart enough to know when to spend and when
to save. If it doesn't make sense to expand Medicaid without the federal
money now, than it doesn't make sense to expand Medicaid with the Fed money
"With our nation bankrupt, and antagonizing our Chinese bankers'We are not bankrupt and not agonizing over Chinese bankers, we primarily
owe ourselves our debt."if we must subsidize 138% of the poverty
level, why not just make medical care "free!" for everyone always?
"Because it's not free to anyone..that's the point.
You play you pay. People below a certain will receive help, but generally
speaking everyone has to pay. So stop with the free stuff it's a lie.
It's disingenuous for local Democrats like Coroon to criticize the state
lawmakers when Obama and the Washington Democrats were responsible for creating
this healthcare mess in the first place. Having said that, I agree that we
should probably take the federal funds in the short term while we work out a
long-term solution. Obamacare did in fact create a gap in coverage for lower
middle income families, while also causing premiums to go up at the same time.
Hardworking families are in fact suffering through no fault of their own. The
Washington Democrats are using them as hostages to get their way with Medicaid
expansion. I understand that. But allowing the innocent victims to suffer will
only harm our chances of ousting the Democrats in 2014/16. That is the long-term
key to solving the problem. We have to go after those who created this mess, not
our fellow citizens who have been caught in the crossfire.
Oh yeah,rich Utah republicans care about nothing but padding their
portfolios..."you poor people don't need health care...just die...what
If Heath and Human Services allows the "Utah" solution just get on with
it and decide up or down. The ACA was passed way back in 2010 and I don't
think its fair to have the endless debate. That was what last session was
supposedly for. The GOP sure seems up in arms about the 40 vets
who tragically died on the waiting list to get into the VA. I'm sure many
of those vets also had medicare and could of gone to other facilities. Somehow
we are perfectly fine making over 130,000 American's in Utah go without
insurance. I'm sure much more than 40 will die and have died waiting to
get health insurance so they can even have the opportunity to get in line. Vet
and you die =tragic, Poor working Utahns dying because they can't
afford health insurance = no rush, we can take our time. I would appreciate
Don't do it, Herbert. DN Subscriber is correct. Don't trust the feds
and sign up for more socialist garbage. Most doctors won't see Medicaid
patients because they will go broke doing so. Just because a person has
"coverage" doesn't mean they will be able to have health care from
a willing provider. Has Obama shown that he can direct anything
right? Don't do it.
They say a strong nation depends on having strong families. We need new laws to
help strengthen families; thus our goal should be to finding ways to keep those
families healthy and out of extreme poverty. Everyone knows when you
are sick; unless you have no ability to relate to others, you simply cannot get
out of bed or even work. You must spend some money to keep these parent(s) well.
The same can be said of how can you raise a family on minimum wage, unless you
also cannot relate to others. As it is known a breadwinner not in the
home can lead to extreme family poverty, gang activities and other social
problems for their kids. We see reports of gang activities are on the increase,
how much can this be traced back to a parent earning less than a living wage. It
would be cheaper to subsidize these low wages (and health care costs) in place
of incarceration of their kids. Look at the minimum wage and the drug use in
Australia; is it coincidence that these families can keep their kids out of
poverty and away from drugs? It looks these laws will ever change.
"Lockhart said there is no interest in acting on any plan, not just the
governor's proposal to use $258 million in Medicaid expansion money to get
private insurance for some 110,000 Utahns earning less than 138 percent of the
federal poverty level." So I guess the 110,000 citizens in
scope will have to agree not to get sick until 2015. Sounds easy enough. Is
that what nurse Lockhart learned in nursing school? This is cold blooded in the
extreme. This and the holding in limbo of recently married gay couples
qualifies Utah as one of the most heartless retrograde principalities in the
My fed income taxes are paying for Medicaid expansion that is being used by
other states. Yeah it's not great but just accept the money.
Lawmakers are wise to be skeptical for several reasons.First, Obama
and his cronies can NOT be trusted. Look at how they ignore laws they do not
like, and arbitrarily (without any legal authority to do so) change laws passed
by Congress. Even if Obama or his minions agree to something that Gov. Herbert
likes, experience shows that there is a very high chance that the terms will be
arbitrarily changed, especially if Utah foolishly takes the bait int he Medicaid
expansion trap.Remember, event he large pot of money promised for
the first few years is SUPPOSED to decrease in out years. With our nation
bankrupt, and antagonizing our Chinese bankers, we should all agree that there
will be less and less money to do the "nice to have" stuff that an
expansion would do.Finally, if we must subsidize 138% of the poverty
level, why not just make medical care "free!" for everyone always?
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other
people's money to spend." We are already broke, so do NOT buy off on
any new high cost programs. Instead, we must look at cutting spending!
Apparently the legislature doesn't care one bit about 140,000 working
families, but I can guarantee you that they would meet in a special session to
move the prison for just a handful of land developers.