Uteology: Forget percentsge. Utah has FAR, MORE LOSES against PAC-* team than
BYU since leaving the MWC!
Naval Vet:Somehow I don't think you know what the word frantic
really means. If you think I'm frantic because I used "made-up"
numbers, then take the numbers out of the equation and my point still stands.
In the MWC, Utah was always at or near the top. Since joining the PAC 12, they
have been at or near the bottom. As for the emotional part, of course it
"felt good." Just like I'm sure you and your fellow BYU haters
"feel good" when you post.
Frantic and emotional? I think a good definition for that would be posting 12+
times on an article about your rival, a team you supposedly "left
behind." Number of games PAC12 Utes have scheduled with the ACC
and SEC in the next few years = ZERONumber of games BYU has scheduled with
ACC or SEC teams in next few years = 3Other teams BYU already has on
their schedule: Texas, UCF, Boise State (x10), Cal (x2), Nebraska, Michigan,
Cincy (x2), UCONN (x2), USU, Arizona (x2), West Virginia, Wisconsin (x2), USC
(x3), ASU (x2), Stanford (x4), and Notre Dame (x4).
Apparently the DN won't print any of my responses...and they were
legitimate and non-confrontational.To sum up...MP:I was
referring to the many Utah fans who believe they earned their spot on the field,
when in fact it appears their research status and TV market were what got them
in. That's not me saying they didn't earn their spot, it's saying
I don't think they "earned" it for the reasons most Utah fans want
Cosmo1974:It was "frantic and emotional" because you point
used "made up" statistics. You said that because it "felt good"
to say. It was an "emotional" argument. The real question is, how
could that NOT be a frantic and emotional response?
Well, boola, boola!
No playoff,Key word = Pre-season.
Naval Vet:How is that frantic and emotional? I wasn't
comparing BYU to Utah. I was comparing Utah to to what they were in the MWC to
what they are now. I apologize (not really), for the incorrect numbers, but the
point stands. Since Utah left the MWC, they have been on a fairly steady
decline. And yes, you may have a higher winning percentange against the PAC 12,
but that is only because Utah has played more games. You really think its a
fair comparison of 27 games to 2? There is no way that is a valid comparison.
Until BYU becomes a member of the PAC 12, which we all know won't happen,
you can't really compare each teams' records...except head to head
which Utah does hold the advantage at 4-1 over the last five games. One more
thing, if what you stated above is your best argument, that is rather weak
because like I just said, if the AMOUNT of games played was fairly equal, then
your .333 record would a better leg to stand on.
Cosmo1974Woods Cross, UT"Do you really want to compare
what BYU is going through to a train wreck? Seriously? Have you seen your team?
Since joining the PAC 12, the Utes are in the bottom 3 and their win/loss record
(which is the only stat that really matters) has gotten worse each year. Talk
about a train wreck!"Here's the difference, Cosmo,
Utah's position within the Pac-12 will change every year and we all hope
that the next year is better than the last. In the final analysis, Utah has an
opportunity.With respect to byu, you realize I'm sure that at
this point byu may well be permanently on the outside looking in. Further,
based on this thread, it appears that the reality of independence is beginning
to sink in. Yes, I call that a byu train wreck.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTYou can't say, "[A]s for
BYU in the PAC I can tell you exactly what happened. BYU is not a tier one
research school..." and then turn around and say..."stop pretending like U earned it when your play on the field really had
nothing to do with it. I was telling you to get off your high horse about
"deserving" something that you may have only gotten because of your
research status and TV market. " The criteria laid out by the
Pac-10 was clear. Is the U's research status not considered a factor in
having "earned" the invitation? You twist your own
words...I'm keeping you honest.Btw...to say that Holmoe is
merely "looking out for byu" significantly minimizes the ethics of his
actions with respect to Utah St in 2010. Here, Holmoe tried to use two
conferences to give him elite status without earning it. He had no intention of
scheduling games with either of them. The result this time is an epic failure
and the door may well be shut on byu. Hey, the SEC and ACC are only looking out
No playoff for U:I saw that 2014 Preseason FPI as well, but I
don't know what to make it. That's the same poll that ranked a 5-7
Utah team #24 for the 2013 season, and as well as some other head-scratching
poll positions. Such as:(1) Ga. Tech (7-6) finishing ahead of UGa
(8-5), despite UGa having (a) the better record, (b) beaten GT, in Atlanta, and
(c) played a tougher SOS in (d) a tougher league.(2) #24 Utah (5-7)
finished ahead of #36 Ore St (7-6) despite having a worse league record, and
losing the head-to-head match-up at RES. (3) BGSU ranked ahead of
Texas?(4) North Texas (9-4) and Indiana (5-7) finished ahead of
Nebraska (9-4)?And the poll YOU cited was just a "preseason"
poll. The poll results from MY FPI poll were based on "actual
results".Like I said...I'm not sure what to make of that
Cosmo1974:"Since joining the PAC 12, the Utes are in the bottom
3..."What a frantic and emotional thing to say. Since joining
the Pac-12, Utah went 9-18 in league play. Therefore, the "bottom 3"
would be WSU (7-20), Cal (6-21), and Colo (4-23).And besides, our
.333 record vs. the Pac-12 trumps that of our midmajorey little brother down
south (.286), doesn't it? And you only had to face 2 Pac-12 teams with
winning records (Utah-2011, and Ore St-2012)...losing both of them by an average
of 31-pts. Utah's losses to Pac-12 teams with a winning record only
averages out to be 13.4-pts/game, and that's despite having played nearly 8
times as many.And of course we're 3-0 vs. the Y, so that pretty
much means you've got nothing on us.Edge: Utah
@Uteology"BYU has prospered against Bo Diddly Techs!"Utah couldn't even prosper against Bo Diddly Techs...only 5
AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, NONE prior to 1994, after 100 years
of playing football.only 2 11+ win seasons, NONE prior to 2004The truth is, Utah had a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons, after which
they quickly faded.2004, followed by 3 straight unranked seasons2008, followed by steady decline ever since
hot off the press2014 Preseason Football Power IndexTeam
- Off Rank/Offense - Def Rank/Defense - Spec Rank/Spec Teams - Overall
Rank/Overall#31 BYU - 32/5.3 - 36/5.2 - 34/0.7 - 31/11.2#40 Utah -
53/2.6 - 42/4.5 - 3/1.7 - 40/8.7#76 USU - 90/-3.2 - 55/1.8 - 57/0.3 -
SoonerUte:I always appreciate your comments...much more level headed and
less hateful than some ute fans. As for BYU in the PAC I can tell you exactly
what happened. BYU is not a tier one research school & as much as some ute
fans want to think/believe it isn't true, I don't ever see the PAC12
welcoming a religious school. That was the 2 strikes against them. Otherwise BYU
has more fans and better facilities than Utah did (though Utah is catching up
and surpassing now that they are in the PAC12) and market share wise they were a
bigger fish than Utah...that's just facts. However, I also understand the
PAC12's desire to have certain research requirements and endowments and
understand BYU doesn't measure up to those like Utah does. I don't
believe BYU burned any bridges in the PAC...plenty of PAC schools are still
scheduling them and it doesn't appear that will wane anytime soon.As for the Big 12 BYU is a better fit there IMHO. There aren't the same
research requirements and those schools seem more conservative and willing to
allow religious schools (Baylor, TCU).
Mission accomplished! Pot is stirred.Naval Vet: Yes I
did read the comments and I wasn't referring to content of comments, simply
the amount. And of course you would think that BYU doesn't have much to be
proud of. There are a lot of Cougar fans that are very proud of what the team
has done. I am one of them. I'm sure there are a lot of fans that are
very frustrated as well. BYU could win the national title next season (they
won't), and "fans" like you would find some excuse as to why the
other team lost, just like some BYU fans did when Utah beat Alabama in the Sugar
Bowl.My Perspective:Do you really want to compare what
BYU is going through to a train wreck? Seriously? Have you seen your team?
When Utah was in the MWC, they were always in the top 3 with 8 or more wins and
went to bowl games. Since joining the PAC 12, the Utes are in the bottom 3 and
their win/loss record (which is the only stat that really matters) has gotten
worse each year. Talk about a train wreck!
MP:Wow, you continue to spin. All I said was stop pretending like U earned
it when your play on the field really had nothing to do with it. I wasn't
saying BYU deserved it because those other programs didn't. I was telling
you to get off your high horse about "deserving" something that you may
have only gotten because of your research status and TV market. Keep twisting my
words though...definitely a talent of yours. BYU isn't "entitled"
to anything and nothing I've said suggests that I think they are. As for
Holmoe he was looking out for BYUs best interests...you know something he's
hired to do. It amazes me how you think it's ok for the ACC & SEC to
look out for their best interests, but not BYU.
Naval Vet: the 12th team.I actually would not want to see Houston
in, but Texas has this way of lobbying for home teams.I think the
Big12 owes West Virginia at least one team out East, so Notre Dame, of course
(joking). It is slim pickings. NIU is a BCS buster, but I don't know
enough about them. The Big12 missed out on a nice Cincy/Louisville package.
When there were rumors of the Big12 going after Florida State and Clemson, I
thought they should grab Louisville and Pittsburgh instead. I know its about
television markets now, but why not create/restore some regional rivalries?Out West, AFA over Colorado State. I am not sure how a service academy
would fare in a P5 conference, but their wishbone style would be a nice change
of pace. And who doesn't love a good pre-game fly over?
SoonerUte"While trying to survive as a conference the Big12
approached BYU. Given the unstable situation BYU walked away, and the message I
heard was "No, BYU will not help the Big12 survive.""Unstable" is a gross understatement of the projected state of the
conference. If all of the teams that were speculated to leave the conference had
actually left, the remnants of the Big 12 wouldn't have been any better
than the remnants of the Big East after Louisville, Rutgers, West Virgina, et al
This is an article about relevance in the college football world. Based solely
on reader comments it is clear that the most relevant college football team in
Utah is BYU. By my count at least 92 of the comments thus far are from alleged
Utah fans (I only counted the easily identifiable troll monikers), which would
make this one of the top 5 most commented articles about Utah football in the
last year (except that Utah isn't even mentioned in the article). Thank
you Utah fans for your help in keeping BYU relevant. We don't actually
need your help as BYU has a much richer and deeper tradition than the U, but
it's fun to see y'all so "frantic and emotional" as our buddy
Naval likes to say. Go Cougs!, the only "relevant" college football
team in Utah.
SoonerUte:Why would you want to see Houston in the Big 12? You
already have Texas, Tx. Tech, Baylor, and TCU in Texas, and Houston doesn't
even command the Houston market. That would be A&M. I could see a cursory
interest in Cincinnati, but only for a toehold into Ohio, and ONLY if the Big 12
needs that to get up to 12 teams. There just doesn't seem to be much in
the way of good expansion options for the Big 12.If the Big 12 DOES
decide to make a move on Cincy, who would you like to see as the 12th team?Boise St. brings "good football", but a poor "television
market", and stretches the league into another time zone.Colorado St. doesn't really grab the "Denver" market, and it
doesn't really bring "good football" (at least not anymore), but it
IS a state school in the CST, and a school that could bring the Big 12 back into
Colo.And what about AFA?I agree that the cougars are too
mediocre for the Big 12 to invite a "distant" and "high
maintenance" program, so who would you like to see invited?
Continued..."I suggested that BYU go to the Big 12 "hat in
hand"...how does that suggest entitlement? That suggests contrition and a
desire to contribute, not ask for something we're "entitled"
to." That may be true for your part, Cosmo, but that isn't
what Holmoe (who is authorized to speak and act on behalf of byu athletics) did.
He went to the SEC and the ACC and asked to be considered a P5 caliber program
because...well...just because we are byu. That's an entitlement. "And stop pretending P5 teams have earned it...did Rutgers Maryland, Utah,
or Colorado earn it?" I know nothing of Maryland and Rutgers.
However, Utah was judged, weighed, and found worthy of an invite to the Pac-10
based on compliance with established criteria already met by Colorado (who
simply moved between P5 conferences). You people think you can
'will' yourselves into a P5 conference by creating hypothetical
scenarios that don't exist in the real world (Rutgers and Maryland
didn't earn their place so byu doesn't have to either). That's
an entitlement. Rise and pout.
esodije:"Even in bad years, BYU's football team beats the
PAC cellar-dwellers."Well I suppose that really depends on who
you'd be calling the "PAC cellar-dwellers". From what I'd
read, the bulk of cougar nation considers Utah to be among the "PAC
cellar-dwellers", and we all know that the cougars can't beat Utah. So
if you think we ARE "PAC cellar-dwellers", then no, you can NOT beat
them. In fact, you can't even beat us in a "good" year now, can
you? 54-10? You DID know that the Y was on the "10" side of that
score, didn't you?
Cougsndawgs "...the impression that BYU feels entitled to be in the Big
12... who approached whom the first time around?"Though locally
I prefer the Utes, I am first a Big12 fan. While trying to survive as a
conference the Big12 approached BYU. Given the unstable situation BYU walked
away, and the message I heard was "No, BYU will not help the Big12
survive." If BYU wants a P5 home, I see no reason for the Big12 to forgive
and forget.Its not BYU hate, but I don't see BYU fitting in to
the Big12. The ONLY reason Cougar fans speak hopefully of the Big12 is that
they got passed over by the PAC12. I don't know what happened there, but
BYU should mend the PAC bridge. BYU belongs in the west.As a Big8
fan, I'd rather see Nebraska/Mizzou come back. As a Big12 fan, I'd
rather see teams like Tulsa/Cincinnati/Houston if they had to expand. Lesser
teams than BYU? Perhaps. But they make geographic sense. Spanning 3 time
zones just to accommodate BYU would be a joke.
Cosmo1974:"For all those Utah fans who say they have moved on
from BYU, if you look at the list of most commented articles for each school,
there is a grand total of 52 comments on Utah articles and 377 total comments on
BYU articles. Let the fun begin!"For all those cougar fans who
say Utah hadn't moved on from the Y, if you look at all the quotes from the
Utah side of the former rivalry, there will be a grand total of 0 comments
referencing the U-Y game as our "Super Bowl", or our "biggest
motivation", or the reason "why a lot of us came to Utah".And Cosmo...did you actually READ what those Ute had to say about the Y?
Because I had. And there doesn't appear to much for you to be proud of.
Utah could be experiencing "growing pains" as a member of the PAC-12--or
it could already be settling permanently at the bottom; ask WSU and OSU (and, to
a lesser degree, the Arizona schools) about ~their~ growing pains in the PAC.
Even in bad years, BYU's football team beats the PAC cellar-dwellers.
Cosmo1974Woods Cross, UT"For all those Utah fans who say
they have moved on from BYU, if you look at the list of most commented articles
for each school, (and take out the one that appears in both lists), there is a
grand total of 52 comments on Utah articles and 377 total comments on BYU
articles. Let the fun begin!"The fun started on Thursday, Cosmo.
There's no entertainment on the planet that tops a good ole'
fashioned byu train wreck.
Utes11:The Big 12 bball championship is, and has always been played on
Saturday. Regardless how you want to spin it the Big 12 isn't getting any
ACC teams, even if the courts rule Maryland doesn't have to pay the entire
exit fee. It isn't about exit fee, it's about TV rights which ALL ACC
schools have signed over.To the rest of the ute fans who seem to be
under the impression that BYU feels entitled to be in the Big 12. Let me
ask...who approached whom the first time around? The Big 12 approached BYU and
BYU wasn't ready to cut any deals. The Big 12 was obviously interested
which I know hurts your little theory that no one wants BYU but get over it. I
suggested that BYU go to the Big 12 "hat in hand"...how does that
suggest entitlement? That suggests contrition and a desire to contribute, not
ask for something we're "entitled" to. And stop pretending P5 teams
have earned it...did Rutgers Maryland, Utah, or Colorado earn it? Research and
tv market are the only reason those programs are in so get off your high horse
and stop pretending otherwise.
I think its kind of funny so called Utah fans keep thinking that BYU could not
compete in a power conference. Can you see into the future? Because as of
right now, Utah doesn't appear to be competing in power conference either.
Yes, there have been some pretty close games, but a loss is a loss. If Utah
really were an "elite" team, they probably would have won more of those
close games. I'm completely aware that I'm stirring the pot and I am
about to do it some more by throwing out some totally irrelevant statistics. I
also realize that by doing so, someone Utah fan may respond by throwing out some
other meaningless ones. Anyway, here goes. For all those Utah fans who say
they have moved on from BYU, if you look at the list of most commented articles
for each school, (and take out the one that appears in both lists), there is a
grand total of 52 comments on Utah articles and 377 total comments on BYU
articles. Let the fun begin!
evansrichdmwest jordan , UTI think this will effect the players and
they should go in to every game with a clip on their shoulders and just best the
stuffing out of every team. If BYU beat TX again this year the nation will once
again take notice.__________Yes the nation once again
will take notice. Not because of a BYU victory. National interest is and would
be in a Texas defeat. Deeper pockets, non folklore football history, and real
recognition will always come out on top. Win or lose.
I never thought that BYU going independent was a good idea. I think events are
starting to prove that out. First of all, they hurt their great Olympic sports
programs by going to the WCC. Second, they have really set up a scheduling
nightmare for football, and this is getting worse. BYU should really consider
coming back to the MWC for all sports except football. They could become the
12th member of the MWC for these sports. This would greatly improve the
competition for basketball and several Olympic sports. Football should then
arrange a scheduling agreement with the MWC for 5 games a year. This could
give them better teams to play in November. This would be the similar t what
ND did in the ACC. It seems like this action would really shore up the
situation they have gotten themselves into
AZUTE1 has hit thew nail right on the head! Every Dog has it's day and now
BYU is going to get their much deserved turn.King James VersionFor I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you,
not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think
soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Utah has gotten better in the last three years despite the fact that their
record doesn't show it.Three years ago Utah had a 4-5
conference record. That included a loss to Colorado and curb stompings by
Washington, Cal, and Arizona State.Last year Utah had a 2-7
conference record. That included wins over ranked Stanford and bottom-dweller
Colorado. The losses were: a one point loss to ranked Arizona State, a loss to
ranked UCLA by a touchdown, a loss to Arizona and to USC when their starting
quarterback was injured, and a loss to Oregon that was a close game into the
fourth quarter. Not to mention a loss to Oregon State also by a touchdown.If BYU were to join the Big 12 (a good thing by the way) they would be
suffering the same growing pains as Utah. If BYU had a consistent schedule like
the one they had last year, the same growing pains would result. But it would
make the program grow.
I'll add this, in the end, what byu fan believes is their entitlement,
means zero in how this plays out. Furthermore, any talk of "overall
resume" is irrelevant, since byu accumulated the meat of it 30+ years ago.
Utterly irrelevant. Personally, I think back to the smug/arrogant/unChristlike
behavior exhibited way back then, as they engaged in embarrassingly bully-like
tactics in their routine attempt to taunt and point finger and generally exist
w/in a state of relatively short-lived "superiority" and feeling
"untouchable", resulting from pervasive self-delusion.Karma
is alive and well and I for one am enjoying every second of it. There's a
steep-price to be paid for those in life who allow themselves to unjustifiably
become all puffed-up in their very own self-created/deliberately nurtured pride.
Essentially, byu's currently right now merely one step removed from being
locked-out of the Big Boy Table for eternity. I pray it happens
w/unequivocation!p.s. I recall a while back learning of a General
Authority addressing this very point, entitled something like, "Checking
one's religion at the gate". He called it in this warning, now
It's ironic that U fans have so much advice to give BYU about joining a
conference when its own athletic program has actually declined since joining a
"power conference." Utah's chances of making a NC football playoff
are greatly diminished as an "insider," as opposed to the BCS busters
they once were. Prediction: In five years, Bronco Mendenhall, Dave Rose, and
Tom Holmoe will still have their jobs, whereas Kyle Whittingham, Larry
Krystowiak, and Chris Hill will all have lost theirs. Then you can all tell us
how that "power conference membership" thing is working out for you.I care not one "whit" (pun intended) about football
championships. BYU could never recruit at that level without having a team full
of unruly boys, and it's hard enough to try to keep the ones they have in
line. Schedule as well as you can, put your games on TV, build the fan base,
and further the church's mission.
Bleed CrimsonSandy, UtahLet's all not forget that BYU put
itself in this precarious situation when they went independent. If
they would have stayed in the MWC they would be in a better position. The
Mountain West renegotiated its TV contracts and dumped the MTN and signed on to
ESPN. The highest ranked mid-major conference champion is guaranteed a berth in
the Fiesta Bowl. Meaning BYU has a better chance to get into one of the Big 6
bowl games. If BYU goes undefeated one season and Boise State is ranked ahead of
them with one loss. The Fiesta Bowl will take Boise State over BYU. The Mountain
West now has greater relevance than BYU as an Independent. But neither the
Mountain West or BYU as an independent will ever make the playoff which is
pretty much guaranteed to the four teams from power conferences. BYU
should either find a way to get into the Big 12 or swallow your pride and get
back into the MWC. Independence will ruin your football!______________The MWC also has a TV deal with Fox Sports.
BYU's best bet for the future is to go back to the MWC, with hat in hand,
and ask to please get in. THEN they can challenge the top programs in that
conference to raise the commitment level ( translate as "money spent on
football") THEN the undefeated winner of that conference would make it in to
the playoff system. AF,Fresno State, SD State, and Boise, could all build strong
programs. The MW conference could supplant the ACC or at least be on par with
them. Again, Look at ACC Football after FSU and Clemson leave for the Big 12.
xertSanta Monica, CA"While Utah's journey into the
mighty Pac 12 has been daunting, difficult and as challenging as anyone with any
sense could have predicted, it has also been a beautiful thing and Ute fans
cherish their Conference of Champions membership."Thank you.
Yes, we do cherish our membership in the Pac-12. Anything, as they say, worth
having is worth working for. There is still much work to be done but what a
fantastic journey it is. The irony in all of this is that the foundation for
inclusion in the elite conference began decades ago when state leadership put an
emphasis on building robust academic programs, a world class medical school, and
a nationally recognized research infrastructure ahead of sports. When the
sports programs surged over the last 15-20 years the University of Utah became
an attractive target as a member of the elite. Rather than laying
out a case for entitlements and asking for a hand out, the University of Utah
worked its way to top.
I am an old school Utah fan which means in part I get no pleasure seeing BYU
struggle with independence or anything else except beating Utah. I am also a
Mormon. Its troubling to me to see two bible belt conferences exclude BYU. While it makes no sense logically, if the mind set is that Mormon's
are not christian (which is common in the bible belt) then its easy to see why
there is this exclusion.I see this as religious bigotry plane and
@FlashbackWhat? Utah has played Pitt three times in the last nine
seasons and beaten them all three times.
Let's all not forget that BYU put itself in this precarious situation when
they went independent. If they would have stayed in the MWC they
would be in a better position. The Mountain West renegotiated its TV contracts
and dumped the MTN and signed on to ESPN. The highest ranked mid-major
conference champion is guaranteed a berth in the Fiesta Bowl. Meaning BYU has a
better chance to get into one of the Big 6 bowl games. If BYU goes undefeated
one season and Boise State is ranked ahead of them with one loss. The Fiesta
Bowl will take Boise State over BYU. The Mountain West now has greater relevance
than BYU as an Independent. But neither the Mountain West or BYU as an
independent will ever make the playoff which is pretty much guaranteed to the
four teams from power conferences. BYU should either find a way to
get into the Big 12 or swallow your pride and get back into the MWC.
Independence will ruin your football!
I think that the scariest part of this scenario comes from the backside. As
elite conferences begin to regard BYU as a mid major, rather than a P5
opponent, the thinking will be, "I when we have a mid major to play! we want
a win. Let's play a local mid major rather than a tougher mid major like
BYU." True, Utah will continue to schedule BYU, but they will probably not
do so on a regular basis and will play USU as their mid major gimme in years
to come. BYU should simply run, not walk to any conference that will accept them
at this point. They are simply not turning out to be the Notre Dame of the
Rockies, as anticipated. While Utah's journey into the mighty Pac 12 has
been daunting, difficult and as challenging as anyone with any sense could have
predicted, it has also been a beautiful thing and Ute fans cherish their
Conference of Champions membership. Truthfully, can any good BYU fan say that
they cherish their mid major Independence status, or their WCC high school gym
I think this will effect the players and they should go in to every game with a
clip on their shoulders and just best the stuffing out of every team. If BYU
beat TX again this year the nation will once again take notice.
FSU, Clemson, and GT, are waiting to see how Maryland's court battle with
the ACC plays out. Remember FSU voted against the ACC increasing it's exit
fee. IF the court's rule that Maryland doesn't have to pay the entire
exit fee , and set a precedent, those ACC school's board's will meet
to explore moving. the Big 12 has it;s sights ( and expectations) set way higher
than BYU and Cincy! And don't forget the Big 12 conference Bball
championship, baseball championship, track and field finals, and soccer
championship are all played on Sunday. Why deal with the hassle of having to
move/ reschedule those events when you can bring in 2 schools that bring more to
the table and don't have special needs?
Utes11:FSU & GT already decided on sticking it out with the ACC. They
could have bolted to the big 12 & would have been accepted with open arms in
2012. They decided to stay and openly declared their allegiance to the ACC at
that time BEFORE signing their rights over to the ACC. Why they decided to stay
is certainly a good question, but is a moot point right now. NightOwl:How is it lose lose for BYU & Cincy? They would still make
about as much as they do now if not more. BYU would get to keep tier 3 rights
under the Big 12 like all other schools. The big issue with BYU would be turning
their home tv rights over to the Big 12 which is something they need to be
willing to do IMO. BYU & Cincy are already considered by many publications
to be the front runners if the Big 12 expands so how is it crawling to a
conference door? For BYU it would simply be negotiating further on previous
negotiations...hardly crawling to anyone's door.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"BYU needs to go with Cincy ASAP
and negotiate with the Big 12 on their terms.."Cougsndawgs, the
SEC and the ACC have spoken. Do you think the Big 12 wasn't listening?
Holmoe tried to use the SEC and ACC to get what he wanted in the
same way he tried to use Utah St to get what he wanted in 2010. In this case,
it was recognition that byu-provo is a P5 caliber program. His intentions
clearly had nothing to do with a desire to schedule SEC and ACC teams. However,
Holmoe learned that he cannot manipulate two power conferences the way he
manipulated Utah St. Applying the outcome of the Utah St fiasco to this
scenario, even the most ardent byu-provo has to concede that the SEC and the ACC
simply did what was in their best interest. Sound familiar?The SEC
and ACC aren't responsible, nor do they care, about the consequences to
byu-provo that will result from their decision. Sound familiar? The SEC and
the ACC will simply walk away knowing they did what they needed to do for
themselves. Sound familiar? Rest assured, the Big-12 was listening.
this is a direct quote "At a combined $20 million per school annually, the
Big 12′s TV deals are ahead of the ACC’s ESPN deal (around $17
million per school, per year) and not far behind the Big Ten and Pac-12′s
sets of contracts (both around $21 million per school annually). And unlike
those other major conferences, the Big 12 guarantees its member schools Tier 3
rights that include one football game, several basketball games and programming
like non-revenue sports and coaches’ shows, among other media rights.Big Ten and Pac-12 schools gave up many of those rights to form their
conference-specific networks, which are partially (Big Ten) or wholly (Pac-12)
owned by the conferences. The ACC, on the other hand, packaged its
schools’ third-tier TV rights into its ESPN deal, which I’ve
previously declared was a misstep for the conference." So if your'e
FSU, GT or Clemson do you want to get 17 mill / year..or 20 mill . year...with
the escalation to 30 mill/ year in the future.
Cougsndawgs said:It's time for BYU administrators and Holmoe to
see the writing on the wall & get with Cincinnati and go to the Big 12 hat
in hand and tell them everything is on the table for negotiation….. Tell
them we will only take the increased revenue we bring to the renegotiated tv
contract. That way none of the existing schools will lose out on any money but
will actually make more because of a CCG. BYU doesn't need more money so
this would be easy for them to do, unlike the team up north that needs big
brother to pay their way because they couldn't make it on their own.
It's a win win."It's a lose lose for BYU and Cin. What
does that say about a school crawling to a conference door, asking for a seat at
the table? The Big 12 is twisted of sorts by way that Texas keeps it's
massive TV deal. None of the other schools share in that. Is BYU willing to
share it's TV revenue with Big 12 schools?Turning down any Big 12
revenue would be crazy.
Utes11:Boy, you don't keep up on current events do you? Let me help
you. Steve Patterson is the AD at Texas not DeLoss Dodds (that change took place
clear back in November). The Big 12 isn't getting any ACC schools...if they
were then they had the best opportunity in the Summer of 2012 before Florida St,
GT, etc all showed their loyalty by signing over their TV rights. The next round
of TV deals for the Big 12 (unless they add teams) won't be until
2025...I'm pretty sure there will be changes before that. If the "power
5" want continuity and equal access to the playoff they will be pressuring
the Big 12 to have a CCG and play a similar schedule as the other
conferences...I can almost guarentee that will happen. BYU needs to go with
Cincy ASAP and negotiate with the Big 12 on their terms...if they choose to play
the entitled, elitist card then they're finished and I'll be following
my Dawgs exclusively. It's that cut and dry. This "snub"
doesn't really mean much in the here and now, but it doesn't bode well
for the future.
1978,There is no way BYU beat 4 teams that finished the season
ranked in the 22 games leading up to and including 1984. Please provide a list
of the teams and your source.
The Big 12 is waiting for the next round of TV deals to be about a year away,
Then they will approach Florida State and Clemson or Georgia Tech. Since the SEC
got a foothold in Texas, Deloss Dodds,( Texas AD) wants badly to get a foothold
into SEC country. The Florida and Atlanta TV markets are way more of a
"peach" ( see what I did there? ;-) than the Utah and , yaaawn,
1978:"...having a 22 game winning streak for two years that
included road/nuetral victories over 4 ranked teams including UCLA...is busting
something...That is an inconvient [sic] truth that many Utah fans love to
overlook."I suppose an "inconvenient truth" that many
cougar fans love to overlook is the fact that the Y did NOT beat 4 ranked teams.
They beat only TWO teams who finished ranked at the end of their respective
seasons: #13 Air Force (10-2) and #17 UCLA (7-4-1). And NEITHER of those games
were in 1984.Another "inconvenient truth" would be that the
cougars had never beaten more than 2 teams who'd finished ranked at the end
of the season in the same season. If you wanted to see a team who'd beaten
4 ranked teams, you'd have to look northward to your big brother on the
Hill, who'd done that TWICE: 1994 and 2008.
TXAfghan Vet:"And don't forget, losing does impact
recruiting. Notice BYU out recruited the u this year."Not
according to Rivals -- who is noted as the the most accurate of all rating
agencies. Per Rivals, Utah had outrecruited the Y every year since 2008.
Ken Lee:"Why would a school avoid a team like BYU that has a
national following, a sold out 65,000 seat stadium,... and an ENHANCED STRENGTH
OF SCHEDULE vs some Div II, UNLV, or Wyoming type team? "Over
the past 3 seasons, the cougars have shown they can only sell out their stadium
when Utah comes to town. And we won't be "com[ing] to town" again
until 2017. Addionally, you DON'T have an "enhanced strenght of
schedule". In fact, there's not much difference between the Y's
schedule and UNLV's or Wyoming's. And for what it's worth,
opponents would could attract better players out of Las Vegas than they could
@KFBob,If I was a BYU graduate I would be more concerned about
education than football. BYU is already ranked #78 in graduate earnings (Utah
#228) I would concentrate on elevating the already stellar academics at BYU.
It's great that Utah is in the PAC 12. BYU will never be in the PAC 12. But
Utah will never reach BYU's academic and career success due to mediocre
undergraduate education. I am sure that Harvard and Yale wish they were in the
PAC-12 too but oh well I guess they will just take the education and the career
opportunities instead. Darn!____You make some good
points. It is great the Utah's in the PAC 12. However, when it comes to
academics, I guess Utah will just have to live with its top 100 World Academic
Ranking. Most of the rest of the PAC-12 schools are also in the top 100. BTW-
BYU was somewhere between 300 and 399. Academically, BYU is a tiny spot in
Utah's rear view mirror. You're right: BYU will never be in the
Sorry Utes, but you're every bit as irrelevant as BYU. You're Iowa
State of the Pac-12 - deal with it.
BYU fans should really let this decision sink in and really take it to heart. It
is reality, big smack of reality, and it looks to only get worse. Things are not
going well in the land of being an Independent. The status is clearly spelled
out, BYU is NOT considered as a program on the first tier level of college
football. Winning 8-10 games a year and playing in a pre-arranged pre-Christmas
Day bowl game is not glorious. Arguing with the world (and PAC-12 Ute fans) on
how great things are in Provo is not the truth. BYU is a mid major program and
an invitation to join is not going to happen. This message was sent loud and
clear. There is not a way to justify otherwise. Facts are the facts, and
pretending that everything is fine and superior is just living in make believe
land. Take ownership of the second tier status and try to excel at that level.
There are teams and programs that rank higher than BYU on the second tier. So it
should be some good competition to try to rise up and battle with the mid major
schools, good luck
Here comes intermural sports to the Y. No wonder Bronco is still there he
doesn't see it coming either.
"That is an inconvient truth that many Utah fans love to overlook."1978:Maybe that's because it happened so long ago. What
has BYU done in this century?
It's time for BYU administrators and Holmoe to see the writing on the wall
& get with Cincinnati and go to the Big 12 hat in hand and tell them
everything is on the table for negotiation except Sunday play (which they know
already). They wanted us before but administrators didn't want to give
anything up...well now you don't have a choice. Tell them we will only take
the increased revenue we bring to the renegotiated tv contract. That way none of
the existing schools will lose out on any money but will actually make more
because of a CCG. BYU doesn't need more money so this would be easy for
them to do, unlike the team up north that needs big brother to pay their way
because they couldn't make it on their own. It's a win win. Big 12
gets the CCG they want, BYU & Cincy, both winning attractive programs get
the seat at the table they want.Independence has been awesome &
I wish it could go on, but now is the time to sure up our football &
Rob of NV,The BCS system was created to prevent what happened in
1984 from happening again. And it worked really well. That's why we now
have a championship playoff. The Holiday Bowl isn't and never was a BCS
bowl. So BYU cannot be considered a BCS buster.
TRUTHSalt Lake City, UTUteology must have graduated from U of
U......Winning percentage vs PAC-12 since leaving the MWC:Utah - 34%BYU - 28%The only reason Utah is ahead of BYU
against the PAC 12 is because BYU hasn't played Colorado five
times.......------------Actually, since it appears you
can't make a decent comparison...The reason BYU has a better
P12 win percentage is because they have played 1/4th the number of P12 teams
Utah has.Oh, you haven't played Colorado much? Guess what? You
haven't played Stanford, Oregon, USC, UCLA, ASU, or any of the other decent
P12 teams either.That's like me saying Utah had a better win
percentage against the WCC in bball last year than BYU did during the regular
season. Our percentage was 1.000 and yours was .722. Nevermind that we played
just one WCC team, while you played 18 games vs the WCC.How you luv
that cherry-picking apples-to-oranges comparison?If you want to make
a real comparison to Utah vs the Pac 12, join the league. Otherwise, you can
make no comparison, ever.
@ 1978Colorado has a NC and a Heisman, both more recent than BYU.
So....what's your point?
Rob of NV "Thank you for proving my point."Uour point was adding
BYU would have "minimalized economic effect in splitting up the pie".Bringing in BYU/Cin doesn't add anything; it costs. Each current
team would lose about $4 million. I suppose $4 million could have minimal
economic effect to Texas, but try convincing Iowa State or Kansas to take a 14%
"Beating an average at best Michigan team is not "busting"
anything."True. But having a 22 game winning streak for two
years that included road/nuetral victories over 4 ranked teams including UCLA in
the year that they won both the PAC10 and the Rose Bowl is busting something.That is an inconvient truth that many Utah fans love to overlook.
Rob of NVBYU is the original BCS buster?? They are the original BCS
creator. The BCS was created so that 1984 atrocity could never be repeated
again. Beating an average at best Michigan team is not "busting"
SoonerUteAmazing to have all these Big 12 alums that are U fans. I
thought UT was supposed to be leading graduate educational institution. Why did
so many end up at Big 12 schools?Thank you for proving my point.
You cannot name one other university that can bring $10 to $15 million annually
to the table. I never said BYU could bring $30 million to the table.
Obviously, $10 to $15 million would minimize the cost to other Big 12 members,
More so than any other university could. Also, there would not be any potential
conference buyout cost to the Big 12 for adding BYU, as might be the case by
adding a university with a conference affiliation.And for other UT
trolls, let's not forget who the original BCS buster was, which was BYU
when they won the 1984 national championship. This fact was one of the main
reasons for the so-called larger conferences creating the BCS. You accuse BYU
of arrogance. The BCS was the epitomy of arrogance, with the thinking that no
school other than those in the "club" should be the national champion.
Why shouldn't any school in the NCAA have the opportunity to be a national
champion, much like basketball?
Heisman Trophy + National Championship >>>> Pac-12 (Lower Tier
i.e. Washington State, Colorado etc.) MembershipThat must be why the
vast majority of comments on a BYU article are from... well you know
Not in panic mode?LOL!Do you byu fans believe that? I
hope you don't. If he's not panicking, when would be time to
panic?When they bulldoze Lavell Stadium or possibly when the
officially announce a membership in the Sun Belt conference?LOL!College football is moving on, without byu!
Chris B-The next time Wyoming wins a NC and has a Heisman winner,
you can compare them to BYU. Until then, that's just a false statement. I like being able to watch BYU play teams from all over the country.
With this new development though, I know for a fact independence is not a good
thing for BYU anymore. To parody the great Ronald Reagan when he told Gorbachev
to 'tear down this wall,' I say Mr. Holmoe, get us in a conference!
Why did the ACC make this decision?Easy, is byu a mid-major or are
they a power conference team. The rule is quite simple: All ACC teams must
play one game against a power conference team.The whole POINT of the
rule is to play more power conference teams.Not Wyomingnot new
mexico statenot san jose statenot UNLVNot byuThose
are all mid-major teams.The whole point of the rule is to NOT play
themAnd in typical "we think we're better than we really
are" fashion they come and want the ACC to give them something the rule was
put in place to prevent?LOL! Get over yourselves byu, you are a mid
major like Wyoming!
The writing is on the wall for a once great football program that has been
allowed to slowly die on the vine. Unfortunatley, this will not be the last
rejection. There is a reason that BYU is not considered a "power" team.
The AD and school had a chance to make changes earlier and have failed to do it.
@ Flashback"Let's see what happens when BYU kicks the snot
out of Virginia. What will the ACC say then?"The ACC would say
"Congratulations on beating the worst team in our conference and avenging
your heartbreaking loss to them last year. Even though you beat the worst team
in our conference pretty soundly. Doesn't change the way college football
sees your football program (mid-majors). BYU will still not count as a power 5
opponent going forward for the foreseeable future".
@ Flashback"Utah has never beat Miami, Texas, Oklahoma, Pitt,
etc."Utah won a BCS bowl game against Pitt.
The Y can control its own destiny by winning against the BIG 10 and other major
conferences. Last year the Y had the chance to beat both Notre Dame and
Wisconsin but lost to both by around 13 points. This doesn't impress
anyone. Had the Y won both games then people suddenly start to take notice.
Winning works wonders as the U found out a few years ago by winning two BSC bowl
games and then found themselves in the Pac12.
Rob of NV "BYU is the only university that brings additional revenue with
it, so that any economic affect of splitting up the "pie" between more
conference members is minimalized."The Big12 deal could reach
$30 million per school soon as the money from the conference's media rights
deals escalates later in the contract. What does BYU make from ESPN. $10M?
$15M?Are you saying BYU could bring $30 million to the Big 12 (two
or three times what ESPN pays BYU today) plus a few extra million to sweeten the
deal for the existing members?That is a lot of money for BYU to
shell out, just to finish behind TCU in a different conference.
BYU will be fine. The reality is BYU does not bring the big money potential to
the table like the power conferences do. The SEC and ACC decisions are purely
based on financial considerations.
This really makes me mad. Yes, I am a BYU alumnus. No, I am not a big fan of the
football team since Bronco took over. AND I am an ACC fan (having attended grad
school and lived in ACC territory up and down the east coast for many years) THE
FACT IS THAT THERE IS NO WAY THAT BYU shouldn't be considered as a high
quality opponent. This is pure nonsense on the part of the ACC.
It is time for both Holmoe and Mendenhall to go, there needs to be new blood and
new ways of thinking and coaching. Anyone else think that it should have been
the Cougars instead of Notre Dame playing for the National Championship and Hill
instead of Nelson Qb'ing that entire season? Anyone else think that had
Bronco been engaged in the game he would have run out onto the field and called
a time out avoided the horrific injury to to Hill not getting in the Victory
Stance? In the end Bronco fired his coaching staff, when Holmoe should have
fired Bronco. Well now it is time for both to go and inject new blood into the
program. Someone who will stand up to Church Leadership and say it is critical
for BYU to get into the Big 12 now Sunday play cannot be negotiated but
everything else including TV broadcast rights can!
Mormon UteKaysville, UTFlashback,The Utes have had
national prominence since we busted the BCS twice. Something BYU has never done
and the Utes were the first team to do it.===Beats all the
Heisman, NC, Outlands, Davey O'Brien awards and other trinkets. Give me
banners and stickers anyday.===To the rest, the sky is
falling, run for cover.
Utes11Hardly unbiased opinion since you are a Ute fan. BYU is the
only university that brings something to the table if the Big 12 were to expand.
BYU is the only university that brings additional revenue with it, so that any
economic affect of splitting up the "pie" between more conference
members is minimalized. BYU has a national fan base, and travels well by
filling up opponent's stadiums. Also, as has been stated earlier, BYU
would in many instances not compete for the same recruits of current conference
members. The more objective few of frankthetank.me has BYU and Cincinnati as
the top two prospects for additional Big 12 members, and his reasoning is sound
and objective. While I like independence and playing the variety of teams, I
think the writing is on the wall that conference membership in the Big 12, most
likely, is important to the future of BYU football. Besides, if BYU football
did go away, what would all the UT trolls do with their extra time. The reason
for their existence would cease, unless they found trolling the CO articles
Flashback,The Utes have had national prominence since we busted the
BCS twice. Something BYU has never done and the Utes were the first team to do
Flashback,Uh, if BYU kicks the snot out of Virginia, fewer ACC teams
will want to schedule BYU.Also, yes we have played Pitt and beaten
them at least twice. The first time was in the Fiesta Bowl.
Cosmo's Cousin,The BYU administration will have to compromise
on broadcast rights to make that happen.
TRUTH,You made a great point, although I don't think you meant
it this way. The Utes play Big 5 teams every week. We don't have to worry
about building a schedule strong enough. Last year we had on of the toughest
schedules in the country, mostly because of our conference games. This year
will be about the same. Yes, it is taking a while to get up to Pac 12 speed,
but when we do we will be in a position to take advantage of everything major
college athletics has to offer.
@ silent lurker.BYU Football may become irrelevant if they
can't get to a good conference. They may eventually disband their team.
An unfortunate scenarios indeed but in the grand scheme of things not all that
important. If I was a BYU graduate I would be more concerned about education
than football. BYU is already ranked #78 in graduate earnings (Utah #228) I
would concentrate on elevating the already stellar academics at BYU. It's
great that Utah is in the PAC 12. BYU will never be in the PAC 12. But Utah
will never reach BYU's academic and career success due to mediocre
undergraduate education. I am sure that Harvard and Yale wish they were in the
PAC-12 too but oh well I guess they will just take the education and the career
opportunities instead. Darn!
Ed Grady "Stop blaming Holmoe for this bind. BYU football just needs to get
better."Holmoe carried out his marching orders to take BYU
independent. He was successful.Was independence a mistake? Is BYU
in a bind? That depends on the mission.Is it exposure?Nothing in
the ACC and SEC decision keeps Tom Holmoe from assembling an independent
nation-wide 12 game schedule.Is it to be considered a power team?BYU needs to win against a power schedule.Is it to compete for an
NC?BYU is in a bind here. The first component is strength of schedule.
BYU will have to assemble a schedule with 9 P5 opponents. Holmoe should be
doing that now, even if it doesn't come together for 10 years.
Atrix,You keep drinking the blue cool aid that Tom Holmoe is
pouring, if that quenches your thirst. The problem is the college football world
is changing and BYU is trying to stick with what has always worked for it. Yes,
BYU has always played one or two big name teams each year and probably will
continue to do that, but that isn't enough any more. That is why Utah
jumped at the chance to get into the Pac 12. It was either that or be shut out
of the opportunity for a title. 2008 proved to all Utes that going undefeated
just isn't enough. You have to play the tougher schedules. The Utes now
play the same caliber teams almost every week that BYU gets only a few times
each year.It is also worth noting that the Pac 12, Big 12 and Big 10
basically did the same thing as the SEC and ACC without stating it outright when
they went to 9 conference games. Limiting teams to 3 non-conference opponents
each year makes it hard for teams to play BYU on a regular basis.
Gotta agree with Ed Grady. It has been a long time since BYU, Utah, and TCU have
been relevant. Utah can crow all they want about their P5 membership, but bottom
line is that until Utah wins a game or two in the PAC 10+2 they will not be
relevant either. My perception is that all the BYU haters are using this as a
sign the Cougars are in a death spiral. Are the Cougars going to go away.....no.
They will continue to have the resources and facilities of big time programs.
However, that being said, even the most devout Cougar has to question why they
can no longer compete with the P5 Conferences on the field. The last 4 losses to
Utah were huge, losing to Virginia last year was embarassing, losing again in
the bowl game to Washington killed BYU again. To be relevant, both the Cougars
and the Utes have to get better....a lot better. Utes, until you win, don't
crow about your P5 membership. BYU is as close to a playoff game as you are.
I am really not liking independence. I will never stop going to the games or
watching them, but I am bored. Am I the only one that misses playing for a
conference championship? I am always full of excitement in September, but with
one loss my interest begins to fade and every game feels like an exhibition. I
am not saying that independence is not the best option, I am just saying that it
gets boring sometimes.
@ Flashback"Utah has never beat Miami, Texas, Oklahoma, Pitt,
etc."BYU has never beaten Alabama, Stanford, Marshall, Kansas,
Iowa State, Louisville, Indiana, ect.
Don't they know about 1984?Don't they know about our games
on ESPNu?Don't they know about our fans in China every other
country?Don't they care about all our quest t-shirts? I'm just so confused as to why the ACC and SEC don't view us
as a power conference team. We basically are, we're just trying to decide
which big conference to join.
Frankly, I would rather be a mid-major that is flourishing such as BYU and BSU
than a Big-5 that is floundering such as you-know-who-U-are and Colorado.
Hey Chris, you forgot to mention the other aspect from the Saban interview
earlier this week, when he was talking about schedules in relation to bowl
eligibility. This was taken from the same ESPN article you
referenced, "He (Saban) suggested choosing bowl teams similarly to how the
national championship contenders will be picked."So if you win
five games and you played a great schedule and you had a couple of significant
wins, you could still go to a bowl game," Saban said. "But as long as
you have to win six games to be in a bowl game, people are not going to be in
favor of strength of schedule."" He wasn't directly
referencing byu with that quote, but it fits perfectly. At least our byu friends
will always have their bowl eligibility to brag about. Congrats I guess?
Chris BNick Saban also was in favor of a 9 game SEC schedule. That
didn't happen.Does Nick Saban's opinion carry weight?
AbsolutelyBut other coaches don't just blindly follow his
opinions. They strongly opposed it with the 9 game schedule, and his opinion got
crushed by the other coaches.I'm not disagreeing with anything
in your comment, I'm just pointing out that while Saban's opinion
matters, it ultimately needs to still get support from other coaches. He
doesn't make the rules, he just complains for different ones.
Utes11,I certainly have no idea what the future holds, but just
because you attended a Big 12 school gives you no inside knowledge on whether or
not BYU enters the fold. Should the Big 12 decide to add any teams, I'm
sure BYU is near the top of their list. You say they don't bring much to
the table, but their following is considerably larger than at least half the Big
12. Their stadium is bigger than 8 of the 10 Big 12 teams, and on
competitiveness, I see them middling. The other concern that has been expressed
in the past by the likes of Texas is that adding more teams gives those teams
greater access to recruiting in Texas, which dilutes the product. That's
not a concern with BYU because their recruiting base is unlikely to change,
regardless of affiliation. You say the Big 12 will want large state schools,
why? They're clearly not averse to private schools--they already have 2,
and one was a recent acquisition. As to size, who's really available
geographically? Houston, Louisville? The first is larger, but has no national
following, and the latter is smaller than BYU. The 2 choices are likely
Louisville and BYU.
Let's win games and THEN worry about our schedule.
The Big 12 was clearly willing to work around the sunday issue or they
wouldn't have even talked to byu. They know sunday issue isn't
negotiable for byu.When the big 12 was willing to work with byu, byu
should have dropped to their knees and thanked the Big 12 and oferred to do
whatever they could(not sunday issue we've already addressed that the big
12 knows byu wont change) to help work it out.Instead, in typical
byu fashion, byu thought they deserved more than they do, and burned yet another
This is a perfect example of why no conference has invited byu - they think they
deserve more than they do.Such arrogance on the part of byu to tell
the SEC and ACC that they deserve something that Wyoming or boise or UNLV
doesn't. You are all mid-majors and the big conferences should treat you
all the same.You are a mid-major.The sooner byu fans
accept that the better
@mercyfulf8"Based on the ACC and SEC snubbing BYU there is no reason
to think the PAC12, BIG10, and BIG12 will feel any different towards
BYU."Well I mean not all is lost. Consider a few things.1.
BYU has a lot of games scheduled against PAC schools (and not just Utah) in the
next half dozen years.2. The ACC and SEC are just saying that BYU
can't count as their required P5 game. However, there's still 4
non-conference games a year, 1 will be P5, 1 will be FCS probably, and that
leaves two others. Look at Georgia Tech last year who played BYU, that schedule
would work (Georgia would be the mandated P5 out of conference game).
Why didn't byu get an exception?Easy.The same
reason new mexico state, Utah state, and Wyoming didn't. You are all
mid-major teams.The whole point of the rule is to prevent their
teams from playing many mid-majors.
From Nick Saban this week on the matter of scheduling for the power
conferences:"If it was totally up to me, I'd say
you've got to play all 12 games in the Big 5" conferences"Yep, that's the direction we're heading, just like I've been
sayingPower 5 = Division 1 mid majors = new division
IIOnly division I(power 5) will go to playoffs and division II(mid
majors) can schedule their own playoffs if they want, but will not be part of
division I football.I told you its coming. And you'd better
believe what Saban says carries weight.
I am an alum of a Big 12 school. The Big 12 schools will never take BYU as a
member. You should all stop wasting your breathe on that one. Remember
conference affiliation is all about money. BYU doesn't bring enough to the
table. Why would they want to divide their pie up into smaller pieces? When the
Big 12 does add 2 more teams they will be large State schools. BYU's best
bet for the future is to go back to the MWC, with hat in hand, and ask to please
get in. THEN they can challenge the top programs in that conference to raise the
commitment level ( translate as "money spent on football") THEN the
undefeated winner of that conference would make it in to the playoff system.
AF,Fresno State, SD State, and Boise, could all build strong programs.
Cougar fans should be very worried about the future of their program, who knows
in 10 years the program could be another Idaho or San Jose State or just flat
out nothing, that athletic director better work some magic to get into a power
conference or else BYU is doomed for disaster. But as a Utah fan
I'm not worried about BYU, whatever happens to them I could care less, all
I know are my Utes are the Pac-12!! And they aren't going anywhere, anytime
I think that a lot of people are showing a lack of respect for BYU. We have to
remember, they won a national championship 30 years ago against an un-ranked 6-6
Michigan team! give them credit where credit us due!!
BYU football is inching closer and closer to the edge. I have been as big a BYU
fan as any, attending games since the 1970s. But if the attitude with the
uppity ups at BYU is that everything will fall into place just because we are
BYU - then I think they are going to be in for a rude awakening. I
don't know if they really had a chance to join the Big 12 at one point, but
if they did then Holmoe messed up big time.I would hate to see it
all end, but won't shed any tears if it does. I'm tired of the
rivalry, tired of having an average program at best, and am at the point of life
where I realize that there are much more important things to occupy my time with
One last comment. Stop blaming Holmoe for this bind. If BYU were more
competive against Big-5 competition, they may have been granted that exemption
from the ACC and SEC. In other words, when you have 15 bowl practices - use
them all and don't blow off 6 of them with Alan Iverson-like excuses. BYU
football just needs to get better.
the committee does not necessarily weigh a Power 5 game more than a non-power 5
game. The committee is just supposed to look at SOS.
Hans Olsen said it best yesterday on the air. " I hope BYU fans are ready
for BYU football to be just for entertainment value."
Flashback,"Utah has never beat Miami, Texas, Oklahoma, Pitt,
etc."flashback to the 05 Fiesta Bowl. Utah-35 Pittsburg-7"since when did the Utes have national prominence?flashback to
04.flashback to 08.flashback to June 17,2010. "Utah officially
accepts Pac 10 invitation"flashback to Oct 12,2013. Utah-27
Let's be honest - BYU, Utah and TCU have ALL become irrelevant since
leaving the MWC. Just because you belong to a Big-5 conference doesn't
guarantee relevance. Do you really really think that Vanderbilt and Mississippi
State are relevant. Do you really think that Kansas and Iowa State are
relevant? Do you really think that Duke and North Carolina State are relevant?
And finally, do you really think that Utah and Colorado are relevant?
BYU will do fine. The ACC and maybe the SEC can still put BYU on the schedule.
If any of the 5 conference teams want to strengthen their schedule they would
also have the option of putting BYU on it rather than LA Monroe; Tenn Tech;
Indiana; Missouri; Tulsa; etc; What I find amusing in all this is
the whaling and nashing of teeth when the 4 selected teams for the first playoff
this year will include the SEC Champion and one other SEC 1 loss team; then the
other two teams will come for either the PAC12; Big 12; ACC (maybe) and Big 10;
Could be two teams (2) in the "Power 5" that might be undefeated, but
has a weak non-conference schedule and wont' get a bite of the apple. For BYU, they not only need to win games but blow-out the opposition and
take no prisoners. When they do that, the media will pay attention and BYU will
again be on the radar as a top program--until that happens, we'll just have
to enjoy the games as they are played.
On the surface you wouldn't think this means much. I mean, it's a
basketball conference right? Not so. With FSU , Clemson and even Duke
finishing in the top 25 last year, this is very bad news for the cougs. BYU lost to the worst team in the ACC last year people! Long gone are
the Bobby Bowden vs Lavell days too. Maybe the focus should be on
volleyball and track.
It probably won't happen in my lifetime but I see BYU athletics eventually
going the way of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii. If one takes a serious and unbiased
look at the mission of the school's owners, athletics really don't
come into play (so to speak). IMO, "Go Cougars" has little to do with
"Enter to learn, go forth to serve."
If I were battling for Conference Title, would I pad my open schedule with the
likes of BYU, or would I play a cupcake like Idaho State? Let's see...go
to Provo and get beat up risk my National ranking, or go to Idaho State where my
third string can get playing time and guarantee a win?"Hello
Its simple. If your going to schedule ACC or SEC teams, you need to win those
games to get noticed. I prefer watching BYU Rugby anyways and I
would invite all to attend their games. Its great for kids and families (non
stop 40 minute halfs)because there is no stop in the action and its on going so
they dont get bored. My opinion, there are better role models on the rugby
RBB power conference teams do not need BYU to fill stadiums. Nebraska has sold
out for 30 years. When the Y plays them next year they will get the standard
500 visiting team tickets. When they play the bottom of those conferences they
fill some empty seats. The Y home stadium is smaller than many power conference
stadiums. Florida doesn't need to travel 2000 miles to play in front of
TXAfganVet, the sign is still there. They moved it from the top of the hill to
the bottom. Kind of like the U's status in the PAC 10.Zip Code
Dude from Provo, since when did the Utes have national prominence?
I think BYU made a bad mistake in going independent. I think they have a much
higher opinion of their drawing power than actually exists. TV money is nice but
do you really want to be a Thursday night fixture? I was going to quip that
they could always start scheduling the Univ. Of Idaho home and home the same
year but I see that even the Vandals now are members of a conference. The Sun
Belt to be exact, starting in July. So they probably don't have slots for
very many non-conference games. I think if a decent conference offer comes
along BYU should jump at it. I don't see this independent gig getting any
Utah has never beat Miami, Texas, Oklahoma, Pitt, etc.
This news proves that Chris Hill saw it coming a long time ago, when he dropped
BYU to play Michigan in a home-and-home. Y fans panicked then, too; not knowing
they were just preparing for the inevitable slide into mid-major oblivion.
Football should join Big 12 asap with bended knee. BYUTv can then start showing
BYU Rugby again with ESPN out of the picture.
Let's see what happens when BYU kicks the snot out of Virginia. What will
the ACC say then?
@ JapanCougar"On the current trajectory, I think BYU would be
wise to jump ship and spend their time, effort, and money on improving
educational opportunities and bolstering other sports. Georgetown is an
excellent model for a school with fantastic academics and athletics without a D1
football team. (Not to mention that none of the Ivy League schools waste their
time and money trying to field a "semi-professional" D1 football team.)
I'll be interested to see what happens in the next year to D1
football."I don't think BYU will remove football, but
admittedly I'm a bigger BYU basketball fan than I am a BYU football fan, so
for me going with a Georgetown model of excellence in athletics is something
I'm not opposed to.
When will BYU fans wake up? Keep drinking the blue "kool aid" and BYU
will soon become irrelevant. The ACC and SEC have just relegated BYU the the
little kids table. ie. mid major status. If either the BIG 12 or Big 10 do the
same the PAC 12 will have to follow suit. If that happens then how often will P5
teams want to schedule BYU? It's time to admit that independence is not
working and pursue or be willing to make some comprises to get into a P5
conference. BYU was too prideful to work with conferences when much of the
realignment was taking place--and now they are paying the price for it.
To all the Ute fans commenting on this BYU article, congrats on getting into the
P12. You deserved to get in as much as anyone else. But realize that you got in
as Larry Scott's plan B. So you hit the CFB lottery. Again, you deserve to
be in the P12 as much as anyone. You're also a very bad P12 team. Welcome
to mediocrity. Hopefully you'll improve and see some success and soon. If
not, K Whit will be looking for a job next year. Now, go concern yourself with
your team and quit worrying about BYU.To all the BYU fans upset that
we aren't in a P5 conference...that can only happen if an invite to join is
extended. That hasn't happened. If it does then BYU will accept. That
leaves only one option: Independence + ESPN. NO. OTHER. OPTION. IS. VIABLE. Not
rejoining the MWC. Not football only in the B12. Nothing. So quit your hand
wringing and enjoy the very positive direction that Tom Holmoe is taking the FB
"ESPN & Bleacher Report both ranked BYU as the all time #25 most
prestigious program. (ahead of Utah, which was ranked #43 & #45
respectively)"I'm curious how BYU can be the #25 most
prestigious program if BYU has exactly one NC and there are exactly 41 programs
which have two or more NCs. The 25 teams with the most NCs all have at least 5
of them, or 3, depending on who you ask. Either way, there's no way BYU is
the 25th "most prestigious" when there are 40 schools ahead of it in
terms of national championships alone.
Stop the panic BYU fans. Plenty of teams will schedule BYU because of $. BYU
fills stadiums and plenty of schools have pressure to make sure that their
football teams make money to float the rest of their sports programs. Plus, by
not playing Utah for the next two years BYU's record will improve.
Convincing everyone you are a national power is hard when you keep losing to a
mid-lever Pac-12 team is difficult.
@ BlueHusky : Your analysis is correct! JUST WIN BABY! Have faith in Tom
& the other BYU leaders. Bronco will continue to provide stellar defensive
leadership. We need some good running playmakers & who knows, our QB might
be the Johnny Football of 2014 this season. Just say'n, "Have A Little
Faith Folks". It's gonna be an interesting year for certain!
It's ironic that one who uses the screen name "TRUTH" dishes out an
untruthful statement.Utah has played Colorado 3 times recently, not
5 times like he claimed.
As a Cougar fan (on the wane), I agree completely with agarrettI'm not panicked, I'm angry and frustrated! just like I get when the
coach makes bad play calls. Independence was a very bad call.
Last I checked teams in college football play 12 regular season games not 9. ACC
and SEC only have it regulated in their respective conferences to play 8
conference games and 1 power 5 conference game, but how about the other 3? Does
this make it harder for BYU to play SEC and ACC teams? A little. But you would
think at least if I was a power conference team I would pack those other 3 games
with strong mid-major teams to maintain a strong strength-of-schedule for
playoff access. BYU would be an attractive team to schedule since they fit that
mode, as well as Boise State, Fresno State, etc.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. BYU probably will need to
eventually join one of the big five conferences. But they do have some very
attractive qualities that other programs don't have. They're game
attendance is in the top 30 (~61,000 in 2013, u was around 45,000), they travel
well because of the LDS membership around the country, and the broadcast
facility doesn't hurt. Any conference that they land in would have to open
to allowing in a faith based organization. That rules out the PAC 10.2 (or
Baylor and Texas would be PAC schools now and Utah would still be in the
Mountain West). There is a lot of ute energy spent commenting on BYU
articles. Have any of you noticed that your utes have done worse in the PAC
since you joined. Without the prospect of a win over BYU this year, u better win
or Kyle will need to polish his resume. And don't forget, losing does
impact recruiting. Notice BYU out recruited the u this year. Last time I was in
Utah, I noticed the "welcome to PAC country" billboard was gone. I guess
the "welcome mat" status was becoming too obvious.
I'm a big BYU football fan who has watched their games weekly from Asia and
Europe. I'd love to see them join a nice conference and have success in so
doing. That said, I think college football is necrosing. The recent moves by the
"power conferences" are simply hurting the sport and I don't think
they're done with their self-injurious behaviors. With a future of paid
athletes, recruiting will change significantly. We're seeing college
football turn into the NFL minor league (perhaps even with ties to NFL teams)
with a primary focus on revenue. On the current trajectory, I think
BYU would be wise to jump ship and spend their time, effort, and money on
improving educational opportunities and bolstering other sports. Georgetown is
an excellent model for a school with fantastic academics and athletics without a
D1 football team. (Not to mention that none of the Ivy League schools waste
their time and money trying to field a "semi-professional" D1 football
team.) I'll be interested to see what happens in the next year
to D1 football.
All is well. Schedule Virginia. ACC or not, they will play BYU.
@Blue Husky"BYU will have plenty of chances of beating big 5
teams. They'll play them in bowls."Or they will play teams
like Tulsa and UTEP in the whatever bowl in some new destination that BYU
contracts with. The solid schedule argument by BYU fans (remember this?) was
just wait after the first season or two of independence and Tom Holmoe will pull
a rabbit out of his hat and the schedule will no longer be an issue. The reality
is that the schedule is looking bleaker and bleaker relative to being considered
a legit schedule at all. But hey, it's true you will go bowling somewhere
every year BYU fans. And you can make fun of Utah when they go 5-7. However you
you might want to make fun of TCU as well. Despite being the cream of the crop
in the MWC, TCU like Utah, struggles to reach a winning record in a power 5
conference. Playing BCS schools means playing BCS athletes. And yes there are
bad teams like WSU and Colorado who have those athletes. In the war of attrition
that is football, it means more wear and tear on the roster.
@Mercyful8You wrote "Clearly the ESPN exposure and all time #25
prestigious program didn't mean much to the SEC and ACC." I
think that is partially true but what this says to me is that schools and
conferences will look after their own interests and leaving BYU out has a number
of reasons removed from all time prestige type thinking. Getting
into a Power 5 conference is looking tough for BYU right now but that could
change if so called power conferences go with 16 teams or redo their whole
makeup without alliances with each other.The immediate concern for
me if I was a BYU fan would be finding some sort of legit schedule. Last year it
sounded nice to play Notre Dame, Wisconsin and Texas. Yet when you looked at the
rest of the schedule it took away respect for BYU's SOS.The
thing is though, BYU can be fresh and get up for the few big games they have and
run the table with the weaker teams and have a shot at a really big game. If BYU
is going to go undefeated it's now with an awful schedule and a talented
and maturing Taysom Hill.
BYU can still accomplish what they want. Sure it was somewhat of bad news today.
But there is only one national champion a year. I get the desire to be in the
mix for the mickey mouse playoff allure, but even as a lifelong Ute fan, I think
BYU has better odds of going undefeated with their schedule than Utah does at
winning the PAC 12. The problem I see is that the bulk of BYU's schedule is
boring for many of their fans. Then again, they have ESPN and
'exposure' so it's all relative.What does Utah have?
Many exciting match ups every year. The downside is more losses and less odds at
a winning record. I am happy with Utah as a PAC 12 member and would rather the
road be tougher except when I let BYU fans get under my skin about record
comparisons that are not comparable to begin with. I think Utah could be good
enough to be a solid PAC 12 team but they still need to build depth which comes
from more wins (catch 22). Most of all Utah needs Whittingham to pick the right
QB and have him stay healthy every couple hundred years.
and so head to head matchups don't matter in this comparison)... So, given
that, over 40 years BYU's record is 29-32 (48% winning percentage)...
Utah's record is 25-53 (32% winning percentage)... Why 40 years (because
it's a long time and that is when Lavelle Edwards became the BYU head
coach)...If we just did the last 3 years BYU has gone 2-2 (50%) and
Utah has gone 9-18 (33%).What I find interesting is that BYU has
beaten more big bad pac12 teams over 40 years than the utes have despite the
fact that the utes have played pac12 teams 17 more times... Ouch.
byu is the real winner in all of this. Think about it, if the exception had been
granted by the ACC and SEC, byu would have had to start playing some semblance
of a real schedule. With being denied, byu and its fans can beat up on the
Savannah States, UNLV's, and Middle Tennessee's of college football,
and then congratulate one another after each 'successful' season and
appearance in the Whatever Bowl. All that comes at the same time of belittling
Utah for playing a real schedule in a real conference, and kidding themselves by
saying Independence is superior to being in a Power 5 conference.
@truth -"The only reason Utah is ahead of BYU against the PAC 12 is
because BYU hasn't played Colorado five times......."Before
insulting a poster and their U of U education, you should look up some facts or
you look really silly. Utah has played Colorado 3 times since joining the PAC
12 and only won two of those games. Additionally the winning percentage vs PAC
12 teams for Utah if we could count the 3 wins in head to head games with BYU,
an occurrence that has happened more often than beating Colorado.Any
more insults you want to throw out?
besides Stanford…which top tier PAC12 team has UTAH ever beat since
joining their own conference? USC? ASU? WA? ORE? All the tough games were
losses….definition of a doormat conference team….an occasional good
game….that's it. Ute fans need to relax….nothing going on
None of this will matter. BYU will be in the Big 12 soon when the
Administration decides to accept an invitation.
I am a huge Coug fan but I am not so much of a Holmoe fan... We had the
opportunity to sneak into the Big 12 back when it was considered very
"Risky" but instead the wrong cooks got into the kitchen and we are now
facing the results of the mismanagement of that group... (Holmoe was part of
that group as was Samuelson and members of the Trustees unnamed and a gaggle of
Lawyers).We should have been on bended knee asking for admittance
instead of acting like the ultimate Prima Dona... That one mismanagement of
events have probably set the BYU Football Program back 10 years...Having said all of that... To consider BYU less than a Power 5 team is a
mockery to their scale and I believe that it reflects the fact that these
ratings decision makers are considering other things than besides that which
takes place on the grid iron... History clearly shows that BYU's, Boise
State's, UCF's, Houston's, San Diego State's, Northern
Iowa's, Navy's, etc. have Football Programs year in and year out that
are much stronger than those of the lower 60% in most all of the Power
Relax...Not sure why we should worry so much about this, just WIN. Remember,
these conferences want "power 5" games to enhance their school's
strength of schedule. So, we will bring a lot to that table on the remaining
two games that are still not committed for each of these teams. Why would a
school avoid a team like BYU that has a national following, a sold out 65,000
seat stadium, a national DirecTV channel, and an ENHANCED STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE
vs some Div II, UNLV, or Wyoming type team? Either they want the best SOS or
they don't. We have to keep winning and have 10 win seasons in bad years
and 11 win seasons in average years, and undefeated seasons every few
years…if we do that, we will be in HOT demand, one way or another.
Losing last year to Utah, Virginia, and Washington in a bowl game is
inexcusable. Last year should have been an 11 win season….an average
year. Beating Wisconsin and Notre Dame rather than 10 point losses would have
made it a great year. Utah? they can keep bringing up the rear in the PAC12
and cashing their checks for the beatings.
Can you say monopoly and antitrust ? The so called power 5 are swimming in deep
waters by forcing their teams to only play amongst themselves! Their greed will
catch up to them and it won't necessaryly be BYU that takes them to court.
The other leagues that don't fit into the description , Boise State USU and
members of their conferences are also paying the price that BYU is of now
TRUTHSalt Lake City, UTUteology must have graduated from U of
U......Winning percentage vs PAC-12 since leaving the MWC:Utah - 34%BYU - 28%The only reason Utah is ahead of BYU
against the PAC 12 is because BYU hasn't played Colorado five
times.......----------------Neither has Utah. Yes I did
graduate from the U, where I learned how to do some research:BYU's two wins were over 3-9 @Oregon State and 3-9 Washington State: 6-18
(25%)Utah's two wins THIS year were over 11-3 Stanford and 4-8
Colorado: 15-26 (58%)As I said, BYU has prospered over Bo Diddly
This decision by the ACC and the SEC has far greater implications for the Utes
than the Cougars! Now schools in those conferences will be knocking on the
doors of schools like Colorado, Washington State, and Utah from the PAC 12.
These match-ups would meet the scheduling requirement and would be good a good
trade off for games previously scheduled with out-of-conference powers such as
Stetson, Cumberland, and Valdosta State.
ACC, SEC can/will still play BYU, it just won’t count as meeting
requirement of 1 game vs. non-conference Power 5 team—Brett McMurphy
(@McMurphyESPN) BYU fans, don’t blame the ACC or SEC. Under
the new bowl alignment “strength of schedule” rules! And it is the
committee that has determined only games against the PowerConference 5 + Notre
Dame will be considered as the highest level of competition. So all 5
"powerConferences and ND can schedule BYU - the issue is Will they?Keep in mind the critical issue is strength of schedule. When the PAC-12
plays 9 conference games and a league championship game all teams will have 9
and 2 will have 10 games against the highest level of competition. In addition
some teams will also schedule games against other conference teams such as Utah
vs. Michigan, USC vas ND, etc. This means that those conferences that only
play 8 league games will have to schedule 1-3 games against the other
PowerConference 5 + ND. Significantly restricting the number of other games
they can schedule. And it is very unlikely they will schedule games they could
possibly lose outside those PowerConference games. Don't know how they
At what point does byu replace holmoe with a new AD that can start a fresh
dialog?...And leave that hd truck home.
runnerguy50Virginia Beach, Va said:"While listening to the
Tim Brando show this morning on Sirus radio the commentator said BYU has got to
find a conference and look for the Cougars to find one soon. It is not good news
when the ACC and SEC say no thanks. Run to the Big 12 while you can...if you
can."If BYU was able to join the Big 12, the state of Utah would
be the only state in the Pac 12 footprint part of two major conferences. That
would be cool and interesting for football fans there. Imagine the same weekend
with Oregon at Utah, and Oklahoma at BYU.Problem is both Texas and
BYU have egos to go along with their own TV deals.And yes BYU fans
like to talk about Utah's record in the PAC 12. Even though they are recent
members. Be careful what you wish for. Never, ever in the history of BYU
football have they played quality teams week after week. You would not get an
easy ride in the Big 12.
Truth: Utah also hasn't played Colorado five times. They've played
them three. They've also played Stanford, Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA...
I don't think the announcement is that big of deal. If any team's #1
marquee non-conference game is BYU, that team would already slightly have been
in trouble about SOS for the playoff committee. BYU is typically a 20-40 top
team. If a team is really looking to impress the committee, they need a top 15
or top 10 out of conference win. ACC and SEC teams that in general are looking
to boost their SOS can very well still schedule a game against BYU in addition
to scheduling a game against a team from the power 5 conferences. BYU is a
great #2 non conference game for those power teams. And for half of the Power 5
teams who are pretty average, it does not hurt BYU that much to play Central
Florida or Boise St. instead of them.
I'm so mad. Byu has way more national titles than the Acc ever did.
The whole concept of the "Power 5" is ridiculous elitism. It's all
about money and power. Look at college basketball. Imagine all the incredible
games we've seen over the years that wouldn't have happened. What if
the NFL, MLB, NBA or the NHL did the same thing? I don't care which side
of the fence a person sits on this one. It's bad for the sport. Does
Kansas have any more right, other than by association, than Boise State to be
part of the Power 5? It's shameful the NCAA even allows this. Look at what the BCS did to college football. It destroyed conferences. The
Mountain West was on it's way to becoming a great conference with Utah,
BYU, Boise St, TCU, San Diego St, Air Force. You could add Utah State to that
mix. But now the conference is diminished and the WAC is obliterated because of
it. I hope everyone can see what's happening. Unlike in college
basketball, a Butler type program will never play for the national championship.
They are locking out everyone not part of the "Power 5". Elitism
isn't American. Achievement is. Achievement should be incentivized not
These characters know that BYU has a history of rising up and swatting down the
occasional big fb program so it's easier to use this excuse to avoid BYU.
It may have been a while but the possibility always exists, especially at LES.
Let 'em play scared. They know it is safer to play a local second tier
team that can use the money and guarantee a victory.
When life give you lemons...I am all for BYU opening up to other sports. This
country puts wayyyyyy too much focus on Basketball and Football.I
have enjoyed those sports but there are more sports out there to play that not
many people are playing!BYU should diversify into more sports just
like the diversity of its' student body.
Perhaps the best thing is to remove football from the equation. The stadium
could be removed and other education programs built on the site. Does football
really matters that much? The utes could represent the State on the grid iron.
And keep in mind that BYU graduates are ranked 78 nationally in
future salary. Utah is ranked 228. I don't think that football matters
nearly as much as the education opportunities and career salary. I would never
trade our academic superiority for a place in the PAC-12 conference. BYU will
never join the pac 12 and utah will never offer the top quality education that
Uteology must have graduated from U of U...... Winning
percentage vs PAC-12 since leaving the MWC:Utah - 34%BYU -
28%The only reason Utah is ahead of BYU against the PAC 12 is
because BYU hasn't played Colorado five times.......
As an avid BYU fan, let me just say this: I hate Independence, and the WCC is
even worse. Get us in the Big 12, or else send us back to the MWC. Let's
stop pretending like Independence is better. MWC has more access to a BCS bowl
now then they did when BYU was in the conference (top non-AQ team gets an
automatic bid), and Boise State has worked out a deal with ESPN, so surely BYU
could too. Get us outta here Holmoe. This whole thing is a joke.
Darren Rowe:"This means the Big 10 and SEC add 2 more, and the
Pac-12 adds 4 and the Big 12 adds 6. So the Pac-12 and Big 12 would add a
combined 10 teams, which would mostly be from the Western U.S., where BYU,
Boise, Houston, SDSU, and Fresno are the best teams."Not
necessarily. What if the BigTen and SEC each added 2 more teams...from the Big
12? And what if the Pac-12 ALSO raided the Big 12, poaching 4? That drops the
Big 12 down to 2 teams, or folds entirely. If the Big 12 tried to
survive, they'd have to add a bunch of MWC and CUSA teams, but then that
conference wouldn't be a "Power 5" league anymore, and they'd
be booted to the "midmajor" ranks like the Big [L]East/AAC. If the Big 12 folded because they had only 2 teams remaining -- like the WAC
-- those 2 remaining teams would be picked up by the MWC and/or CUSA. And since
those leagues are ALREADY "midmajors", adding the 2 "unwanted"
Big 12 teams wouldn't change that......and the cougars would be
"midmajors" forever. Those are the most likely scenerios.
Holmoe,You already pushed the panic button when you made the
impromptu decision to go independent after Utah went to the Pac-12.
BYU shouldn't push the panic button for these reasons:1- It
appears more likely that the P5 conferences won't separate completely from
the smaller conferences until every power conference plays by the same rules.
Same number of teams, games, etc. So more realignment needs to take place before
the split, and BYU might slide in.2- The ACC already has 14 and will
likely add Notre Dame soon. Then they will probably go to 16. Assuming everyone
plays under the same format, each conference will need 16. This means the Big 10
and SEC add 2 more, and the Pac-12 adds 4 and the Big 12 adds 6. So the Pac-12
and Big 12 would add a combined 10 teams, which would mostly be from the Western
U.S., where BYU, Boise, Houston, SDSU, and Fresno are the best teams.3- There is also a good chance the NCAA will lose it's affiliation with
college football when this split occurs. Therefore, college football would
become separate from other college sports. This would make it easier for BYU to
join because Sunday play is not an issue for college football. It's an
issue for other sports. BYU could very realistically be a football-only Big 12
Atrix:"Could the Utes ever fly has an Independent? Nope"I honestly don't know why cougar fans think the 2-time BCS bowl
winning Utes couldn't have left the MWC to play WAC football until it
imploded under the gravity of its own midmajoreyness, and then scheduled a slew
of midmajor cupcakes to fill out a season. Why WOULDN'T the Utes have been
able to do that? The FBS if FULL of teams who'd made that happen: Utah
St, Idaho, NM State, W Kentucky, Georgia St, etc. If THEY could do it, so could
we.Except that we just don't want to. Membership in an elite
conference is so much better.
@BlueHuskyBYU has prospered against Bo Diddly Techs!*
BYU has a losing record vs P5 teams and that's playing 2-4 P5 teams a year
not 8 or 9. * When Utah and TCU playing 2-4 P5 teams they had the
top 2 winning percentage of all mid-majors.Winning percentage vs
PAC-12 since leaving the MWC:Utah - 34%BYU - 28%
I'm one BYU fan that will not worry. BYU will continue with success every
year and reach bowl games. We'll play enough "big name" teams to
stay in the national spotlight and keep the revenue flowing in. I'd take this life over what the Utes program has. They sweep the
doormats of the Pac-10.2 and mooch revenue from the power teams in the
conference. They are never on national TV and nobody gives a peep about them
except the few fans living in Utah. They serve as a hole filler for the Pac and
they have to do whatever big brother says in order to keep the paychecks coming.
Take it for what its worth but I'm a proud BYU fan and always
will be. I love the national exposure and the ever changing schedule. I'm
proud of our Independence. Could the Utes ever fly has an Independent? Nope -
they will always need a bigger brother to hold their hand. Go
While listening to the Tim Brando show this morning on Sirus radio the
commentator said BYU has got to find a conference and look for the Cougars to
find one soon. It is not good news when the ACC and SEC say no thanks. Run to
the Big 12 while you can...if you can.
@still_thinking.It may not have been a power 5, but it was from a
BCS conference at the time! They turned down an offer from the former Big East.
Just look it up.BYU couldn't stand to share the wealth. They
only want it for themselves.
DEW Cougars "Will ACC going to tell ND not to play BYU, hmmm, I
wondered."You misunderstood the announcement. The ACC is not banning
teams from playing BYU. The ACC can play BYU and it counts as playing a
mid-major opponent. Nothing really changed today.
El Chango:"ESPN & Bleacher Report both ranked BYU as the all
time #25 most prestigious program."You misread that article.
That wasn't about the top programs of "all time". It only ranked
the programs thru 1998 -- or "pre-BCS era". There's been some
movement since then, but the cougars didn't fare so well.
@DEW CougarsNotre Dame is not part of the ACC for Football so they can
continue to schedule whoever they want.More broadly I think those
that criticize going independent need to realize that if we were still part of
the MWC the ACC and SEC decisions would apply. Being independent is not what
prevents us from playing the ACC and SEC. As for joining a Power 5 Conference I
think we all need to remember a couple of things: 1) BYU is a church owned
school and their first priority is not, was not, and will not ever be sporting
dominance (I can already hear Chris B replying mission accomplished), and 2) No
information has ever been made available to indicate we turned down an
invitation.Given the mission of BYU and the circumstances that
exist, I think BYU has done a great job. If the only thing you care about is a
National Championship then go root for Alabama (because Utah isn't getting
I am so grateful that Utah doesn't have to worry about this problem. They
made the right choice by joining the prestigious Pac 12. I hope BYU can find a
school from a smaller conferences to schedule. If they do that they might just
go undefeated and be able to make it to a bowl game.
Independence is not an option anymore.Yes, Notre Dame is
Independent, but not really. Notre Dame has an agreement to play 5 ACC teams
per year, ACC bowls have the option to take Notre Dame or ACC team. Basically
Notre Dame is an unofficial member of the ACC. Plus Notre Dame has the annual
games with Stanford, USC, etc.BYU's independence is more on par
with New Mexico State or Idaho. Just fill an open spot when a team can't
find anyone else. No bowl tie-ins. Just because BYU is independent,
why should their games count and not say Boise State. Anyone can go
independent, other 2014 Independents include: Idaho, New Mexico State, Old
Dominnion and Army. Are they claiming to be better than Boise State? No.
We're not in a Big 5 Conference. Oh well. BYU has NEVER been in a big 5
conference and they've prospered. WSU, ASU, UofA, OSU, Cal, Colorado and
Utah have not prospered. Occasionally they have a good year, but BYU has beaten
all of them at one time or another.All we have to do is win.
We'll be ranked. We may get snubbed, but oh well. BYU will have plenty of
chances of beating big 5 teams. They'll play them in bowls.Just
win baby. BYU will be no worse off than they ever were.Nothing
succeeds like success. After all, BSU, Utah, Hawaii all got into BCS bowls by
beating weak schedules. Now we have a playoff. Will the Big 5 really control
that? People will want a bigger playoff. 8 teams? BYU could make that list.
BYU lost to the worst power conference team last year (1-10 Virginia).Virginia's only win vs an FBS school was against BYU.
I know we are suppose to schedule ND soon but they are part of ACC. Will ACC
going to tell ND not to play BYU, hmmm, I wondered. Two more at home and two
more on road with ND. Sure we got espn but who wants to play on Wed,
Thur or Friday night (late time)?Don't worry, I am not
Based on the ACC and SEC snubbing BYU there is no reason to think the PAC12,
BIG10, and BIG12 will feel any different towards BYU. If I was a BYU fine I
wouldn't be feeling too optimistic right now. Clearly the ESPN exposure
and all time #25 prestigious program didn't mean much to the SEC and ACC.
I think BYU, and Cougar fans, are going to have to come to grips with the fact
that they are not perceived as anything more than a second tier team. And if
they hope to get into a "power" conference they are going to have to
sacrifice the "exposure" BYUTV and ESPN gives them and settle for being
just a small part of a whole. The only other alternatives is to rejoin the MWC,
along with the rest of the irrelevant teams, or give up football altogether. At
the rate of demand of those who wish to attend BYU, they could tear down LES to
expand their educational facilities.I wish I were wrong about the
future of BYU football. It had a good run. But, I don't think those who
run BYU have it within them to make the needed sacrifices (and I'm not
talking about Sunday play) to make BYU football viable in the future. It's
sad, but beginning to more apparent as time goes on, that UoU football will be
the only game in town on the national stage. Oh well.
@El Chango"ESPN & Bleacher Report both ranked BYU as the all
time #25 most prestigious program. (ahead of Utah, which was ranked #43 &
#45 respectively)"Man, it's almost as if the ACC and SEC
don't care about BYU's ancient football history as much as BYU fans
El Chango Supremo That was then, this is now. I still think going
Indy was a bad maneuver.
Exactly what would it take for Holmoe to start panicking? How about only having
11 games against P5 schools scheduled over the next ELEVEN seasons? When you
have to go all the way to 2025 to make your list of opponents sound relevant, it
is time to panic.
While BYU is no Alabama or Michigan, They are certainly a bigger program than
quite a few "power 5" schools... ESPN & Bleacher Report both ranked
BYU as the all time #25 most prestigious program. (ahead of Utah, which was
ranked #43 & #45 respectively)This decision by the ACC & SEC
makes no sense at all!
Good article. Holmoe will work it out. Also, wanted to get here before Chris
B. or one of his other dozen monikers.
So you're telling us that future schedules could be worse than this
year's? Is that even possible?