Chris B.I completely understood your point, but appreciate your
clarification.This is a country where religious practices and
freedoms are a historically well entrenched part of the social moral fiber and
being. I think it is an exceptional value the NCAA has preserved in
recognizing that culture and made, and continue to make, allowances for those
organizations which are tied to religious entities. It's a good thing.How far is too far in regard to the possible variety of exceptions ?
Well, parties willing to adapt to the desires of another such party and still
compete would in my mind demonstrate outstanding sportsmanship. And, on their
part if they are demonstrably onerous, good sportsmanship on the part of the
restrictive side to withdraw in some situations as well rather than encumber
others.It can be worked out.
Chris,We also believe in religious freedom in this country. Not
only does that give us the right to believe as we see fit, but it also means
large public organizations cannot discriminate against those beliefs. So the
NCAA is right to accommodate BYU and is abiding by the Constitution.
Chris,The problem is, you don't think anyone speaks for God on
the earth. Too bad. Your loss.
Mormon ute,You're attempt to justify your "prophet"
speaking for God doesn't make it so any more than me speaking for God.Sorry, if God had wanted to tell us not to play sports, he could have
done that. He chose not to.Blue Baron,God never said
those things about any other day of the week either, so there's no
indication from God any of those things are worse on Sunday than they are any
other day.I could make up my own list of things not approved on
Sunday, but they wouldn't be any less right or wrong than a list you make
rlsintx,I wasn't suggesting the NCAA has ever done that, but
more pointing out that this obviously needs to have its limitations. But since
you couldn't see that I'll spell it out more clearly - I didn't
think that was necessary but apparently it is.Imagine there is a
group that wants a religious exemption on Tuesday, another Wednesday, another
Thursday, another Friday, another Saturday, and another Sunday. Furthermore, a
different group wants an exemption on Mondays after noon. Thus, we are left from
midnight Monday through 11:59 AM Monday to play all sporting events. Should
accomdate all requests or do we just tell people "tough, deal with it. Its
your decision to play or not."The NCAA is not asking byu to play
golf, or any sport for that matter. byu wants to field teams and therefore
should be at the mercy of what the NCAA decides is best for sports.Either that or don't cry if we eventually move all sporting events in all
of collegiate athletics to 7AM Monday mornings.
2004 Todd Miller forfeit Sunday play of Utah State Amateur Tournament. He should
have never played this tournament in the first place even if he knew there would
be a chance to play on Sunday. I am not a golf person but knew most golf
tournament always play on Sundays. Golf should never skip a day. I think that is
stupid that the ncaa would accomadate BYU Sunday Rule. Tournament should start
anytime during mid week to close out the tournament on Saturday which I think
should work. Or, I say for BYU should end golf entirely. Bring back Mens
Gymnastic or Westling. But those two ACC and SEC are not making sense toward
Chris B - the NCAA has accommodated Yeshiva University with non-Saturday/Sabbath
Chris,Just because people don't follow Him, doesn't mean
God didn't say it. God has said it through modern day Prophets and other
religious leaders. You can choose to believe or not and to follow or not. Just
don't try to pretend God didn't say it to justify your own choices.
@ Chris B"He says they shouldn't "dominate" other
things in life including the spiritual."I apologize, I should
have stated my perspective better. My thoughts are directed to the student
athlete (and I suppose, the "Super Fans") But, your comment above is
exactly what I was trying to get at. Can we really expect athletes to spend the
proper amount of time to the service of the Almighty on the Sabbath if they are
trying to mentally and physically prepare, play, and then recover from an
activity that will last the better part of the day? No words were
put in the Pope's mouth. His message, at least as I interpret it, is clear.
"Sunday is the supreme day of faith, an indispensable day, the day of
Christian hope. Any weakening in the Sunday observance of Holy Mass weakens
Christian discipleship."Maybe competitive athletics improves
Sunday worship, but I'm more inclined to think not.
Some other things that God never said: 1. It's Okay to put
sports ahead of me, especially on Sunday, Saturday, or Friday2. Being able
to play sports on Sunday is a lot more important than your devotion to your God
or what day you choose to worship3. Work, shop or play any day you choose.
It really doesn't matter to me4. Man was made for Sundays.
It's important to really show me what you can do on that day5.
"Wherefore the children of Israel shall NOT keep the sabbath, to NOT observe
the sabbath throughout their generations, (SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT A) perpetual covenant.
tom2 - my argument wasn't that the NCAA should accommodate BYU. It was
simply that BYU has not and in my opinion never will allow Sunday play. Is this
a problem for BYU? No question. I foresee the day that BYU will be totally
shut out from athletics due to its stance of not playing on Sunday.
SportsChemistry,Even the quote from the pope does not say that
sports shouldn't be played or watched on Sunday. He says they
shouldn't "dominate" other things in life including the spiritual.
He very easily could have said that God does not want us to watch or play sports
on Sundays ever, if that's how he felt. He did not say that. Let not put
words in the Pope's mouth. Thanks, want to try again? I still
haven't seen where God said to not play or watch sports on Sunday.
@ BalanWhile I agree with you that in all likelihood BYU will not
ever play on Sunday: never say never. As much as this pains me to say it, Chris
B points out the only salient argument in my opinion. Different
religions have different holy days. There was a player on the Los Angeles
Dodgers that took grief a while ago for refusing to play on a Jewish high holy
day during a pennant chase with the San Fransisco Giants. I just looked it up -
Shawn Green twice refused to play on Yom Kippur, as did Sandy Koufax when he was
scheduled to pitch game one of the 1965 world series.It could cause
chaos if all religious individuals or institutions were as adamant about not
playing on their holy days as BYU is.That being said, I still agree
with Balan that it would be very shocking if BYU reversed course. They are held
up as an example by parents and young sports participants all over the world and
I imagine they take that responsibility very seriously.
@ Chris BPope John Paul on Friday said Sunday should be a day for
God, not for secular diversions like entertainment and sports."When Sunday loses its fundamental meaning and becomes subordinate to a
secular concept of 'weekend' dominated by such things as entertainment
and sport, people stay locked within a horizon so narrow that they can no longer
see the heavens," the pontiff said in a speech to Australian bishops. For reference, look up Deseret News "Sports-vs-the-Sabbath"Technically, I guess it's not God's voice. But that's why
he has living leaders, right?
The NCAA should not make this exemption. What if another religion didn't
allow them to play sports on Saturdays, which is the Sabbath many people?What if another group had theirs on Fridays?God does not
care if people play sports, watch tv, or go shopping on Sundays any more than if
they do those things on Tuesdays. It doesn't matter.And if
someone disagrees, please show me where God ever said don't play sports on
Sundays. And no, "obey the Sabbath" does not mean "don't play
sports on Sunday"
Not in the least. BYU, an institution of the Church does not participate in
sporting events on Sunday. Never has never will. The Church allows
individuals to exercise their free agency when it comes to choosing a career.
And not once have I heard the Church come out and criticize anyone whose career
requires him / her to work on Sunday - including athletes.I
can't quite understand why this is so difficult for some to grasp.
I applaud BYU for standing it's ground on this principle and I applaud the
NCAA for being willing to accommodate this long held religious principle.
Alpiner,I don't recall either the Church officially celebrating
members playing in any professional sport that requires Sunday play. The Church
leaves career choice decisions up to each member and only asks that each do
their best to maintain Church standards and that is not easy in the environment
they are in.Also, as Tajemnica pointed out, Steve Young has never
spoken in General Conference.
@AlpinerSteve Young has never spoken in General Conference.
Does anyone else find it a bit unsettling that BYU and the church celebrate
their NFL members who all play on Sunday, even having Steve Young speak at a
General Conference session while he was active in the NFL? I support the BYU
Sunday stand but am a bit disturbed by the wink, nod, and mild idolization
toward the members who play professional ball on Sundays.