Duckhunter. Please pay close attention to what I said. I never implied or said
that all students and athletes at BYU ignore the honor code. What I said, and
was very clear about, is that BYU is no different than any other school when it
comes to drugs, alcohol, premarital sex, etc. So when Missouri alludes that
there is a higher standard that BYU players, fans and students live by. I
kindly took exception to this and pointed out that there is no difference
between what is said and what actually takes place. Universally, no, but I
never claimed that to be the case. A hypocrite is a hypocrite. GO
TajemnicaSanta Monica, CA"Sunday play may have played a
factor but it was not the biggest issue for the BIG 12. It was for the PAC 10
though."No, it wasn't, Tajemnica. You made that up to feel
better about the fact that the Pac-12 never considered byu. The Pac-10
presidents and chancellors were very clear about the criteria they were looking
for in a potential target and byu didn't measure up.
@wookieIt is obvious what he is saying, the majority of BYU students
and athletes do uphold the honorcode and the proof is that so few of them are
ever punished for breaking it, that means they haven't. Sure there might be
an instance or two where someone just got away with something but your below the
belt claim that " BYU is no different from any other school as far as things
that their students and players do" is the one deserving to be called out.
Perhaps you should clarify yourself on this so we can all know you
are not simply misquoting yourself? Is it really your contention that all of the
athletes at BYU, or even a large majority of them, are drinking, taking drugs,
and having premarital sex, in the same percentages as "any other school"
despite the fact most of them are LDS and all of them have signed an honor code
explicitly saying they will not do those things?If so where did you
get the evidence that you are using to besmirch several hundred young athletes
at BYU?I'm willing to bet you have none. How low of you.
@ Wookie...I do take exception to the blanket statement that BYU
students/fans/athletes do not live their standards.I did go to
BYUYou are correct that I did not attend parties where people were
misbehaving and violating the honor code. None of my friends ever invited me to
one of those parties. Seems like we are always having fun doing things that
didn't violate the honor code.I do know people who got sideways with
the honor code.I know significantly more people whose behavior is
consistent with the values they profess to follow. Nearly all of these people
are BYU fans. I did have a grandfather who cheered for Utah he was a good guy
too. As far as I know he didn't go to the wild parties either....
wookie.... Seems like someone has a little bit of a complex with BYU. I
didn't say BYU fans were better behaved. I didn't say that BYU
students were somehow superior...BYU students, fans and athletes are
all imperfect people who can and will make poor choices. It is a fact, howver,
that BYU has never been sanctioned by the NCAA for activities that are violation
of the rules all the universities are supposed to operate within. The list of
schools that have not been sanctioned is less than 3. Utah by the way is not on
that list....It is also a fact that BYU student Athletes agree to
and are held to a higher standard than what would be expected at most other
schools. To suggest that because some student athletes misbehave the standard
doesn't exist is not rational.
@Cougarontheprowl,Yes, Utah was backup plan for the Pac 12.And byu wasn't even a possible backup possibility for the pac 12.And apparently the Big 12 doesn't see byU as a viable back up plan
either, since even though they want a title game they'd rather stick with
10 teams and not have a title game if having a title game meant having to invite
byU.Utah was a backup planand byU is apparently not even
Wiscougarfan:"Texas (2nd best team in Big 12, in nearly every
pre-season top 25 list for 2014)"Which preseason publications
would that be? I hadn't seen any.
TXAfghanVet:"All that and the Cougs were still able to out
recruit the mighty utes."Yeah...like back in 2007. But
according to Rivals, it's been all Utah since then.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTWe(the pac 12) told byu noThe big 12
tells byu no every day essentially by not offeringthe ACC has now told byu
noThe SEC is about to tell byu noI'm seeing a pattern,And I love it!We are INbyU is OUTChris, Utah only got in after other teams backed out, they weren't even
the PAC 10 top choice so they were basically last resort and backed in after
other teams bailed. Add in the fact that Utah probably won't win more then
4 or 5 games a year and they are seen as nothing more a bottom dweller in the
PAC 12 or in other words irrelevant. You see you still have to win consistently
if you want to be relevant and Utah wont especially without a QB.
BYU has always taken a strong position that values come first. Athletic success
does not drive the boat. In recent history BYU has suspended several players
for violations of the honor code even though the impact on approaching games
would most certainly be negative. The activities of the players were not
illegal. Just not up to BYU's standards. Compare that to recent events
where a player was cited for stealing and he was suspended for an entire 4 days
during the offseason... Or another school where under the tenure of a coach
with ties to Utah have 55 players spend time in jail either before, during or
after being a part of the schools football team. There is a reason why BYU has
never been sanctioned by the NCAA. That may not be worth much to the "Power
Conferences" but making Athletic decisions based on integrity is important
where it counts the most.
I am so glad that chris b has daily conversations with Big 12 and PAC officials
and that he has the answers to all of the mysteries and ins and outs or the Big
12 and PAC football. We are so lucky to have such an expert among us. I think
that he should be their spokesman.
I have to laugh at the ridiculousness that enters these threads. BYU fans
trolling Utah fans on Utah comment boards, Utah fans trolling BYU fans on BYU
comment boards. Yet neither side notices or takes responsibility when they do it
to the other. Chris B. doesn't have a clue and if you haven't figured
that out, you're probably one of the same people who troll the Utah threads
and cray about how all Utah fans troll BYU threads. Ignorance and naivety truly
are contagious. LOL!!!
jarkarus,What does it make Utah?It makes a team in the
bottom third of power conference teams.And you're below that -
thus the exclusion from the power conferencesWe have a great
opportunity to improve and move into the top third of all programs. You do not.
know why?Your a mid-major, with "mid" being the focus, more
so than the "major"
jarka-rus,The Utes have struggled to make inroads in their conference but
they did beat #5 Stanford.The fact that byu is owned by the Utes and the
other Power conference teams that they've played is proof that they
If Byu is a "mid major" team as you Utesies seem to claim then what does
that make a 2 yr bowlless 2-7 Pac bottom dwelling Ute team?
"Comments about ‘CougarLinks: Is BYU 'the cleanest homeless man
in college football'?’"jarka-rusStick to the
Chris BWe are in Byu is outWere you talking about bowl games in the
last 2 years? You surely couldn't be talking about that LOL
@WiscougarfanThat's an even better spin on a dismal schedule
than Rico's version. Well done!
ACC and SEC both said no to BYU today. Cougarboard now in full-on meltdown.RIP BYU Football1972 - 2104
Missouri loves BYU "I would much rather have BYU dancing as an
independent and maintain its unique position than compromise and accept an
invite to prom with a conference that doesn't share the same values may end
up throwing up in BYU's lap before the night is over."You've got your wish.
We(the pac 12) told byu noThe big 12 tells byu no every day essentially by
not offeringthe ACC has now told byu noThe SEC is about to tell byu
noI'm seeing a pattern,And I love it!We
are INbyU is OUT
@ekuteSpin it however you want but the fact is that BYU has a larger
fan base than your utes. Your right most of it is LDS. Who cares? Play to your
When byu is accepted into one of the four power conferences, they will instantly
win championships in every sport every year.Can't wait.
Tajemnica,byu sports has excellent viewership within the worldwide LDS
community, still, not enough to impress the Power Conferences.
What is meant by the term "cleanest"? I would ask if that statement is
based on what they say or what they do because what they (BYU fans and players)
say and what they do are in a lot of instances are complete opposites. I think
that BYU espouses to do the things they publish (i.e., honor code) but people
make mistakes and are human as we've seen with Max Hall, Unga, Davies,
etc... Thus, I would call it a program like Boise or Fresno that just
didn't warrant an invite into a larger more prestigious conference. To
call it the cleanest is not accurate.Go UTES!!
RE: Uncle Rico“BYU's 2014 Schedule:Virginia
(worst team in ACC in 2013: 2-10, only wins VMI and BYU)Cal (worst team in
Pac-12 in 2013: 1-11, only win was against Portland State)Texas (overrated
team who did not have 1 player drafted in 2014)”How about
this…BYU’s 2014 ScheduleTexas (2nd best team
in Big 12, in nearly every pre-season top 25 list for 2014)Utah State
(best team in MWC, won their bowl game against ranked opponent)Central
Florida (best team in AAC, won BCS bowl in 2013, finished season ranked #10
ahead of every PAC12 team but Oregon)Boise State (3rd in MWC, has been
bowling 12 straight seasons, including 2 recent BCS bowls)
RE: SoonerUte“For the entire 14 years of the BCS, BYU was
categorized as a mid-major team. Vanquish The Foe publishes a "Top 10
Mid-Major Ranking" just so they can feature BYU. Why are fans suddenly upset
that the SEC agrees with the BCS and VTF by calling BYU a mid-major
team?”First, there were 15 years of BCS (1998-2012). Second,
I had to google the Vanguish the Foe rankings to see what you were talking about
(since they are a local blog site). Sure enough, for 2013 BYU made the list at
#8 (there was no list for any other year). That’s pretty solid evidence
for your claim. If you want actual numbers from national media we can look at
Sagarin rankings which show that BYU was ranked higher than Utah (8-7) during
the BCS era. I don’t dispute that BYU is considered by some to be
mid-major, but I would argue that BYU is more of a national brand than Utah is.
RE: Chris B.“Byu does not add enough value, like Utah did to
the Pac 12, to justify adding byu to the big 12.”What value is
that? The conference of champions has 39 total national titles in the only two
sports that Utah trolls care about (football, 23; and basketball, 16). However,
since Utah joined the PAC12 in 2011, the conference has exactly ZERO total
titles. In the minor sports there has also been a drop in total titles.
Utah’s television ratings for bowl games are at an all-time low, as are
their NCAA tourney ratings (0 viewers and 0 viewers).
@ekute Yeah nobody is impressed with (their) ESPN deal. That's
why they were ranked 57 in total viewership last year. Higher than a handful of
P5 teams and nearly twice as many viewers as utah. Did you know that Utah State
pulls in more average viewers than utah? and by 70,000 per game? Now that is
saying something. Ohio, SMU, Air Force, Northern Illinois, Fresno St., Virginia,
Maryland, etc. All also have higher average viewership than utah. Apparantly
very few outside salt lake city care about watching utah play. But yeah I guess
the fact that BYU pulls in twice as many average viewers as utah means nobody is
impressed with the ESPN deal. Being only 18,000 average viewers more than Iowa
St. is something you can be proud of.BYU and utah fans can start
tooting their horns when they get to the 2.2 million USC and UCLA pull in each
week. Until then enjoy irrelevance outside SLC.
Cougsndaawgs,While I agree that it was broadcast rights that
hindered the Big12 deal for BYU, I don't see why you and other BYU fans
still believe that broadcast facility was built primarily for sports. Sports
makes up a very small portion of the broadcast content on BYUtv and always will.
BYUtv was created by the Church prior to BYU's football independence and
when Elder Eyring dedicated the facility he didn't say one single word
about sports programming.If I read right what you are saying, you
love independence, because your team gets to pump up it's record playing
cupcakes and then throw in the occasional tough opponent just to remain
respectable. The problem is, that type of schedule is exactly why BYU is losing
respect by conferences like the ACC and SEC. Even Notre Dame, who has no
trouble scheduling anybody, saw the importance of conference affiliation and now
has a partial affiliation with the ACC. Maybe BYU needs to look hard at being
willing to compromise the broadcast rights. BYUtv will be just fine without a
few sporting events.
A lot of eyebrows were rightfully raised when byu went independent. They're
not the prestigious school that they arrogantly thought they were. Nobody is
impressed by they're espn deal.
ACC just announced byu is a mid-major and will be treated like all mid-majors
and will NOT be counted as a power conference team with an exception!Huge blow to the collective provo ego and the future quest for relevance!
Chis B."So given that most byu fans who will admit it, want to be in a
big time conference, the choice is entirely out of byu's hands."That makes a lot of sense if you don't think about it.When have "fans" had any control over what a University does or
doesn't do in regard to conference affiliation?Proud PAC 12
memberHappy we get to play Utah and Colorado
Darren Rowe "Sunday play". Tajemnica "broadcast rights".The primary reason BYU did not receive an invite to the Big 12 was
TCU.The Big 12 was trying to survive as a conference. Which
applicant would you pick?TCU: "Thank you for recognizing our recent
accomplishments. We'd be honored to help stabilize the conference. How
can we help?"BYU: "Well of course you want us to join your
conference, since we have a 1984 NC trophy. We'll need better television
rights than Texas. No Sunday play is a given. Is even split of revenue an
absolute? Our cut should reflect a world-wide fan base. Is your conference
even going to be around next year? We'll probably go independent and
establish ourselves as the Notre Dame of the West."
Missouri loves BYU:I love the prom analogy.Utah is like the
homely zit pocket girl your mom made you say yes to in order to be nice. BYU is
the hot girl that will say no to all your advances so she doesn't get
invited. Utah won't say no to anything their date (PAC12) wants because
they're just happy to be there. As for them ever winning a FB championship
in the PAC I liken it to what George Costanza said when he saw lobster on the
menu at the coffee shop..."why would they bring lobster in here? Do they
bring it in in everyday thinking 'Today's the day' (crossing
fingers)".I also agree with those who've stated it was
broadcast rights that kept BYU out of the Big 12. BYU had invested all this
money into BYUtv including a state of the art broadcast building. They
weren't just going to hand that over, especially considering the Big 12 was
in shambles when they approached BYU. I want independence as long as it is
viable, because Utah has shown that it isn't always worth selling out to
get your behind kicked every weekend.
Darren,Here is the first line from an ESPN article on January 31
2013 titled "Big 12 wants waiver to host title game""Big
12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby says the league likely will seek permission from the
NCAA to hold a championship game even though it doesn't have the 12 members
required under the current rules"Ouch!
All that and the Cougs were still able to out recruit the mighty utes. I'd
say there are two points to be made here. First, BYU probably needs to end up in
one of the five large conferences eventurally (unless anti-trust lawsuits start
raining from the sky. Could happen). My guess is that it won't be the PAC,
given their bias against faith based schools (or Baylor would be in and Utah
would still be in the Mountain West). And second, Utah's program has only
moved in the wrong direction since moving to the PAC 10.2. Perhaps the time of
the ute fan would be better spent lobbying their own favorite institution to
step up their program before its only remaining "natural rival" is
Virginia, and spend less time commenting on articles about a school that
shouldn't be cared about by members of such a prestigious power conference.
@sooneruteI think you'd better use a better example than Yale.
Sure they have a lot of National Championships but they also have a $20+ billion
dollar endowment meaning they are almost 40 times more wealthy than the utes so
they do not need the money. Plus, everyone knows who Yale is not because of
their athletic programs but because of academics. They definately don't
need the exposure and 99% of high school atheletes could not afford to go there
@Darren RoweThe Sunday play factor was not the main reason for the
lack of invite from the BIG 12, it was actually BYUtv and BYUs refusal to
compromise on broadcast rights. Sunday play may have played a factor but it was
not the biggest issue for the BIG 12. It was for the PAC 10 though.
Uncle Rico sounds like it would have been a good year to play the Utes since
their record fits right in there with Virginia and Cal. BYU is getting better
while the Utes are getting worse…much worse. And I'll bet you can
throw the football a quarter mile too.
Chris BIt's not that the Big 12 wants a title game but
doesn't want BYU to help them, it's that they don't want a title
game. Period. They've expressed that multiple times.
BYU's 2014 Schedule:Virginia (worst team in ACC in 2013: 2-10,
only wins VMI and BYU)Cal (worst team in Pac-12 in 2013: 1-11, only win
was against Portland State)Texas (overrated team who did not have 1 player
drafted in 2014)That is it. BYU plays only 3 teams from
power conferences in 2014. 2 of the teams combined for 0 division 1 wins last
year (excluding the game against BYU), and the other team did not have even 1
player drafted in the NFL.In 2013, the Utes beat BYU again. Utah
also beat a power conference champion, that finished ranked in the top 10
(Stanford). When was the last time BYU did that?
Being in one of the Major conferences could be compared to having a date to the
prom. And just like in high school just because you have a date to the prom
doesn't mean you were the best looking, smartest or most likeable person.
It dosen't even mean you will have a good time. It just means you have a
date to the prom. BYU isn't the right date for every conference. Just
like the BYU honor code is not the right fit for every college athlete. I would
much rather have BYU dancing as an independent and maintain its unique position
than compromise and accept an invite to prom with a conference that doesn't
share the same values may end up throwing up in BYU's lap before the night
@ Darren RoweThe big problem with BYU is TV and rebroadcast rights.
Sunday play is an issue, but it's definitely not the biggest problem. As for this: "but things ended before they really started due to
Sunday play and not being a classless party school like the rest of the
Pac-12." Those are just sour grapes. The PAC-12 is full of
highly respected and prestigious institutions. Calling Stanford and Berkley
"classless party schools", really?
Belonging to a "power conference" is the proverbial shiny object that cb
and his buddies keep touting in order to take the attention off of a bottom
dweller (that would be utah) that looks to be bowless (is that a word??) for the
If we are awarding "major" status to BYU because they have one national
title, then lets promote Yale which has 26 more national titles than BYU.For the entire 14 years of the BCS, BYU was categorized as a mid-major
team. Vanquish The Foe publishes a "Top 10 Mid-Major Ranking" just so
they can feature BYU. Why are fans suddenly upset that the SEC agrees with the
BCS and VTF by calling BYU a mid-major team?
Lifelong:I didn't say 10 wins would open doors for BYU this
season. I said it possibly could down the road. BYU can use the model Utah used
to get into the PAC (yes, I'm one of those rare Cougar fans who believe
Utah played their way in). When Utah and TCU played a few years ago both ranked
in the top 5, there was serious national buzz of what the have-not teams are
capable of. If BYU bottles that type of lightning enough times, they can go the
route of Utah and TCU.
Wait CHris B. I think I agree with you! Saints be praised! I for one would
like to have the Cougars in a major conference. It would make things allot
easier for scheduling. I would not like to lose the games with Utah or Utah
State though. With the Utes canceling their in state games it will hurt their
chances to go bowling even more. If they don't win this year I think
it's good bye Kyle!
@Challenge - You think a 10 win season this year may open the door to a power
conference? How funny. Why didn't the last 10 win season open that door
for you? Or with how much everyone respects 1984, why hasn't that opened
the door for you? The doors are closed to your school because the conferences
have plenty of reasons not to invite you. YOu think the reasons for not
inviting byu will suddenly go away with a 10 win season against a horrible
schedule? Notre Dame knows that a school must play a ton of games
against power conference teams to ever be included in a possible playoff stop.
BYU knows it too, but not many power conference teams care to help byu out.
You're simply not that attractive of an opponent. If the Pac 12 or Big 12
or ACC or Big 10 or SEC offered byu a similar deal as what the ACC has to Notre
DAme, byu would jump all over it, just as byu would jump over an invite to a big
conference.But no offers for any such thing huh?
@Darren Rose,Please don't tell me you really buy the sunday
issue for why the Big 12 didn't invite you.The big 12 knew that
byu would never play on Sundays. Your claims of how the conversations likely
went suggest that the big 12 went into the conversations hoping to convince byu
to start playing sundays. That is 100% false. Everyone knows byu will not nor
will they ever play on Sundays. And that's fine, I can respect their
decision. So if the Big 12 was willing to have conversations with
byu, it was with full knowledge that sunday issue was NOT negotiable. There are
plenty of other "issues" with byu.
Darren RoweYou and I seem to be saying the same thing, so I
don't see how I would be wrong but you are right.The Big 12
doesn't want to invite byu even though the Big 12 wants a title game and
needs 12 to have a title game.Byu does not add enough value, like
Utah did to the Pac 12, to justify adding byu to the big 12.They
would rather NOT play a title game(even though they want to) than invite byu.
Darren RoweHeber City, UTit has mostly been our choice not to
join a big conference.------------Simply amazes me how
BYU fans actually believe this is true. If you think BYU has had every
opportunity to get in a P5 conference, but has elected to stay out, that is the
sheerest form of ignorance and denial.Yes, BYU has largely chosen to
remain out of other mid-major conferences. But there is zero truth to the idea
they are actively keeping themselves out of power conferences.None
of the P5 conferences have issued BYU an invite. NONE. Yet it's because BYU
has said no? How laughable.Totally makes sense, too. BYU is
repeatedly getting slammed for mid-majoritis amid the changing landscape of
CFB... yet they still choose to remain on the outside. Right.BYU is
always talking about negative issues of being outside the P5... like the SEC
exception, scheduling, bowl games, revenue, getting access to the BCS/Playoff.
So you would have us believe that, despite how being an independent is so
unquestionably detrimental to BYU, they are simply CHOOSING to remain in that
disadvantageous position.Ha ha ha. That's rich.
Chris and Lifelong: BYU is not in a bad position at all. After they
win 10+ games this year, scheduling against elite competition in the following
years will be easier to come by. This will either open the door to an elite
conference (like the route Utah took), or at the very least allow for greater
exposure, with the hope that BYU will eventually bust into the playoffs or a top
tier bowl. Notre Dame is doubling down by partially aligning with
the ACC. BYU doesn't have to be in a position like that yet. Rise Up!
Chris BThe Big 12 has repeatedly expressed how happy they are at 10
and how they don't feel like adding two teams and a title game would make
up for the loss of splitting the financial pie two more times. So I have no idea
where you got your information, but it's wrong.Also, it has
mostly been our choice not to join a big conference. The Pac-12 was briefly
interested in BYU, but things ended before they really started due to Sunday
play and not being a classless party school like the rest of the Pac-12.Talks with the Big 12 were very serious, and while I do not have inside
information, it appeared that Sunday play is all that came between BYU and the
Big 12. We also got an official offer from the Big East while they were a power
conference, and we turned it down. It has absolutely been our choice.Also, I would like to point out that the first comments on this article for a
"mid-major team" (according to Chris B) came from fans of the mighty
cellar-dweller of the "Conference of Never Football or Basketball
Champions". Obsessed much?
death, taxes, and ute trolls on byu pages
"The Cougars are still on the outside looking in when it comes to the Big
Boys of college football"Enough said
"cleanest"I guess if you want to spin in that way.Or you could spin it as "byu is one of the most baggage heavy institutions
of all of college football" and their desirability is only half of what it
is in the minds of byu fans.The Pac 12 has already said no many
times but not inviting byuThe big 12 is daily saying no by not inviting
them(even though they really want a title game they'd rather not have a
title game if it meant having to invite byu)The SEC is about to say no you
don't deserve an exception any more than Utah state or boise or fresno
deserve an exception - you're a mid major like they are
"That's been their choice, for the most part" Not
really. byu fans for the majority want to be in a real conference, as they can
see that the divide between the power conferences and the rest is growing and
we're moving towards power conferences being division 1 with sole access to
the playoffs and national title. So given that most byu fans who will admit it,
want to be in a big time conference, the choice is entirely out of byu's
hands. Division II(the small conferences and byu) can form their
own playoffs or whatever, we don't care. And no, there are no laws that
will prevent this and save byu, just as there are no laws that make it so San
Diego State can compete for the Pac 12 title or South Florida for the SEC title,
even if those teams want access to those things. Just as the
current rules say you have to be a Pac 12 member or SEC member to win the Pac 12
and play in the Pac 12 title game or SEC title game, so it will be with