No playoff for USalt Lake City, UTbtw, in the "BCS
era"AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 5Utah 411+ Win
SeasonsBYU 4 (mostly over a slate of garbage teams)Utah 2BYU has as many AP Top 25 finishes and more 11+ win seasons during the
"BCS era", than Utah does in their entire history.----------BTW,BCS Bowl appearances:Utah 2BYU ZEROBCS Bowl victories:Utah 2BYU ZERO...the only stat that matters. And you get SKUNKED.Debate: Won
@ BigCougarThis was my original question."The
question is, would BYU have the resume they do if they were members of a P5
Chris BSalt Lake City, UT said:"And the ACC just decided
that mid-major byu will be treated like any other mid-major like Utah state or
Wyoming!You are OUT!"Utah St. almost knocked off
Auburn a couple of years ago.Wyoming has played SEC teams, almost beat
Nebraska last season, and hosted Texas. Yes the Longhorns played at Wyoming.
They mid be mid-majors but do get to play power conference teams.
@2fer"In the BCS era Utah had a much better resume than BYU. More bowl
wins, more BCS bowl wins, more wins against BCS schools, etc. I wasn't
trying to take a shot at BYU. That is the serious question that needs to be
answered."What question needs answering? BYU had a great run
from the mid-late 70's through the mid 90's with an unprecedented
season and a National Championship (something no other team outside of a power
conference has been able to match in the modern era). Utah had a
much much shorter run with significantly fewer high points but 2 really great
seasons mised in. Utah sent a lot of guys to the NFL (especially in the previous
decade) but had little to no impact collegiately with awards/recoginition, while
BYU had significantly more success with players on the collegiate level with a
Heisman winner, Outland Trophy winners, Davey O'Briens, Doak Walker, 1st
team All-Americans, etc etc and good success early on sending guys to the
NFL.If this were poker, one National Championship will always trump
2 BCS Bowl wins.It is what it is.
I'm one of those realistic die hard BYU fans and Utah haters. Look I get
why the ACC/SEC doesn't want to play us. We haven't perform as well as
we should have the last few years. I get that Independence was the best option
for us, as well as Utah was the best option for the PAC 12 after loosing the bid
to convince Texas. We have to perform well now to get in, Utah performed well at
the right moment and that is why they got in. They don't have storied
history, they are a public school meaning not a Mormon school.They got in
because they won at the right time. At the same time Utah won't do well. So
Utah fans enough of the we are better than you. Enough of the no one cares about
you. People will play us, big teams as well, but we will have to earn the right
to get that automatic tie in. As Utah collapses in the PAC 12, you will see that
no one wants to play you either, oh I mean other than as a easy win from a power
The last 4 sentences of the article by Dennis Dodd on CBSSports website
eloquently sums up byu's predicament.
Chris B,Please stop embarrassing yourself with your ridiculous
assertions. BYU's football program has a very strong history of high level
competition. At least enough to qualify for inclusion in a major conference.
While it is true they don't have a BCS bowl win under their belt, I
don't believe Colorado has one in the BCS era. Colorado did play in the
Fiesta Bowl in 2001, but lost. So even though they were in the Big 12 for a
long time and had decent success in years past, it has been a long time. So
while BYU's high level success is years in the past, it should qualify them
for inclusion as much as Utah's recent success does. Otherwise, Colorado
doesn't belong in a major conference either. If the Big East deal
hadn't fallen apart, BYU would likely be in. If BYU had been willing to
compromise on TV rights, they might have made it into the Big 12 as a football
only school. I don't think their play on the field is keeping them out, as
much as you'd like to believe it is. So give it a rest, please.
So BYU got kicked to the curb by the ACC & SEC! LOL!What gives
BYU fans the right to demand that schools play them? If they don't think
you are worthy then tough. Move along. BYU chose it's own path
to "band of buddies independence." Live with it.And the day of
independence becoming intramural is almost here.
UteanymousSalt Lake City, Utah- BYU isn't regularly on par with
Alabama or Ohio State. But good luck arguing that Iowa State, Purdue, Wake
Forest, and at least a dozen other power-conference teams are worthier opponents
than BYU. That those schools happen to be lucky enough to play in conferences
that have been granted "elite" status makes them elite programs in name
only.__________Nothing like a frantic BYU fan declaring
what schools belong to a conference or not. What criteria do you use? LOL!
Rose Bowl call yet?Salt Lake City, UTtomahawkRemind us
the last time Utah beat Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, or
Washington.----------The issue is about BYU and whether
they should be given an exception as a mid-major. Utah has nothing to do with
the issues whatsoever.So what is your point?
brs27Beaver, UTtomahawkNotre Dame isn't being
granted an exception based on their most recent 10 years of work.---------BYU isn't even anywhere in the same universe as
Notre Dame. I don't know why you people continue to compare your program to
theirs. It's like comparing your bicycle to a Ferrari.Notre
Dame has won numerous national championships. They are one of the top 3 most
storied and respected programs in the history of football. Everyone in the
United States knows who Notre Dame is, know their fight song, and knows those
gold helmets. Notre Dame has consistently played a rigorous schedule against
power teams from every conference in the nation, and rarely ever plays a gimme
game versus the likes of Savannah State or Idaho State.Notre Dame
has looooong since qualified as a power team. They qualify more as a power
conference team than 98% of teams that are actually in power conferences.Don't even ATTEMPT to try and paint little old never-done-nothin,
nobody-knows-anything-about-them Brigham Young University anywhere near that
same light. That is, if you want any semblance of even the slightest
shred of credibility.
The ACC's decision is just a convenient way of being able to schedule OOC
games against P5 bottom dwellers like Utah and claim them as "elite"
opponents.The truth is, a team that is incapable of winning a road
game against a fellow PAC 12 member with a winning record doesn't have a
prayer of ever getting an invite to the playoffs, so playing OOC games against
ACC and SEC teams is irrelevant as far as Utah's playoff chances are
continued... unless your definition of "almost always" is
25% of the time. If that is the case you're right on.
@Chris BI was curious to see how accurate your assessment on your
last comment was so I did exactly what you requested,"Go look at
the past many years of college football. An 11-1 team in the big boy conferences
almost always would be included in a 4 team playoff."As usual
you are way off the mark. I looked at the second to last (pre bowls/national
championship) polls of all the big boy conference teams since 2002. In those 12
seasons, 9 seasons would have had big boy teams with 11-1 records or better left
out of a 4 team playoff. Only 2002, 2003, and 2011 would have had all big boy
teams with 11-1 or better records in the playoffs. I must agree with Chamberlain
on this one. Its only a matter of time before it expands again. In utah's
glory days of '04 and '08 had they been a member of the PAC 10 at that
point, they would have been left out both times. (based solely on the AP poll)
Although I don't thing they'd have been undefeated were they in the
Cahmberlain,Go look at the past many years of college football. An
11-1 team in the big boy conferences almost always would be included in a 4 team
Seems like a lot of panic over nothing.We don't even know what
specific criteria the selection committee will be using for the playoffs and the
four-team playoff format won't last more than a couple of years before
it's expanded to eight teams.With only four spots available and
five power conferences, plus Notre Dame, it's a given that one, two or even
three P5 champions will be left out of the playoffs every year. It won't
take long for the hounds to start baying to expand the playoffs when 11-1, Top 5
P5 teams are routinely left on the outside looking in.
This ACC news of not including byu as a power conference team is HUGE news!This is a big blow to the quest for relevance AND to the collective byu
ego.No one wants you.No one thinks you are power
conference qualityNo one cares about 1984 but youYou are
a mid major just like Wyoming!
And the ACC just decided that mid-major byu will be treated like any other
mid-major like Utah state or Wyoming!You are OUT!
In my opinion maybe BYU isn't worried about playing in a big time
conference. At the end of the day, they are a school who is giving these kids a
chance to play football, get a good education and become better men for it. It
could be just me, but I do think there is more to life then playing for a big
time conference. This independancy is allowing these kids to play teams across
the country and to play on ESPN.
2ferIn the PAC era, Utah has proven that they don't belong.
Policies to play other P5 teams OOC are simply a convenient way of being able to
count P5 bottom dwellers like Utah and Indiana as "elite" opponents.It'll be interesting to see if the selection committee will be
fooled by labels, instead looking past the labels to substance.btw,
in the "BCS era"AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 5Utah 411+ Win SeasonsBYU 4Utah 2BYU has as many AP Top
25 finishes and more 11+ win seasons during the "BCS era", than Utah
does in their entire history.
Chris B:Why are you laughing at BigCougar? You do realize he was
referencing Sagarin ratings when he stated BYUs SOS was harder than
Alabama's (38 is better than 39). So you're laughing at Sagarin
ratings? Oh, of course, I forgot you know more than they do right? LOL
@ UteanymousIn the BCS era Utah had a much better resume than BYU.
More bowl wins, more BCS bowl wins, more wins against BCS schools, etc. I
wasn't trying to take a shot at BYU. That is the serious question that
needs to be answered.
@Uteanymous"proof positive that Utah is "elite" in name
only."Since when were they "elite" even in that? They
have never at any point been considered an "elite" program whether in
name or in deed.
2ferUtah doesn't have BYU's resume and the Utes spent more
than a century playing in the WAC/MWC and conferences that were even worse.The Utes haven't accomplished anything of significance since
joining the PAC 12, and precious little before then - only FIVE lifetime AP Top
25 finishes, proof positive that Utah is "elite" in name only.
skywalker,I'm not concerned about byu asking for an
exemption.I'm just already laughing when the SEC tells byu
"no you're a mid major just like boise and San jose state and Utah
state" The point of their rule is to force SEC teams to NOT play
a mid-major that game, and all those teams including byu are mid-majors.
skywalkerOf course the exemption for byu and boise wouldn't be
mutually exclusive. That's the whole point. As brought up on an article
in the "other" newspaper a week or so ago by a byu fan writer, this
writer(I don't think the des news will let me put his name but you can go
search) mentioned doubt that the SEC would give byu an exemption because then it
opens up a Pandora's box of who do you offer exemptions to? Those were his
words, not mine.You do understand this right? And it doesn't
matter to the SEC that byu is independent and needs the games - they don't
care. They have no more reason to give byu an exmpetion than they do to give
fresno, Utah state, boise, san jose State, south florida, or Arkansas State an
exemption, all teams who have been good lately
@BigCougarbyu's strength harder than Alabama's?LOL!Good spin. That based on looking purely at record of
opponents and not strength of schedule. So a byu game against a 6-6
WAC team would be given the same strength as an Alabama game against a 6-6 SEC
team.Good try though.Do you really believe those games
"As the SB Nation article documented, BYU has a much stronger football
resume than many of the so-called "elite" teams in the P5
conferences."The question is, would BYU have the resume they do
if they were members of a P5 conference?
May 14 "ACC teams may consider playing ACC teams as nonconference
foes"Local translation "even fewer schedule slots available for
KenYou need to understand that it's not an either or
proposition for BYU and any other school, say Boise State, to request an
exemption - they're not mutually exclusive, you know.Why are
you so concerned with BYU requesting an exemption, any way.You
can't even handle your conference schedule, let alone think about
scheduling an SEC team.With all of your whining, you conveniently
ignore the fact that U get to count Colorado as an "elite" opponent
freebie every year.
Cracks me up to see Ute fans, in the 90s the biggest complainers about the
unfairness of the have/have-not college football landscape, become the biggest
apologists for the corrupt system now in place. Count me amused but not
surprised.And up here in UW/WSU country, the inclusion of the Utes
and Colorado elicits the same responses from long-time PAC fans as it does from
ASU fans. The only difference is, Wassou fans are thrilled to not always be the
conference bottom-dweller anymore. They have big plans.
@Howeird S"But... do you really think BYU deserves an exemption
because the fans think BYU provides a challenge equal to current conference
members?...Is it the opinion of the fan base that is the qualifying factor for
an exemption?"...and it's not the opinion of haters that is
the qualifying factor for an exemption, either. Generally speaking about half of
the schools in p5 conferences are decent to good and half are mediocre to
terrible with many of the same having poor SOS rankings. Some are historically
bad. ute angst/envy isn't a reason for the SEC or the ACC to
not grant BYU a scheduling exception and rather than base it off of hatred I
think they'll look at a lot of more relevant factors to make that decision
including a willingness by BYU to play anyone anywhere. SEC schools like getting
more home games.Playing more road games won't make the BYU home
crowd happy but with an 80" TV and the ability to watch nearly every game in
HD, I don't mind not fighting the traffic to watch a good game in the
comforts of my own home.
@Howeird S""All 65 teams in the p5 conferences do one thing that
BYU does not do... play a minimum of 9 games against power conference
opponents"What does that matter when some of those p5 opponents
end up being lame football schools like Utah, Colorado, Cal, Purdue, Kansas,
Arkansas, Kentucky, NC St, Iowa St, Illinois, etc? What good did
playing a top 10 strength of schedule do Utah last year? Anyone walking around
wearing badges in uteville proclaiming their SOS ranking? Did players and fans
each get a trophy at the end of the season picnic? Nope.No trophies or Bowls either, well I take that back, judging by the comments
being posted here by ute fans, they obviously go to the toilet bowl quite a bit.
@Howeird S"There is no reason BYU'S schedule should be considered
equivalent to a p5 schedule.BYU can level the playing field by
scheduling 9 p5 games a year or joining a p5 conference, but until then there is
no justification for a BYU exemption."BYU's most recent
strength of schedule was ranked 38th toughest which puts it ahead of Alabama
ranked at 39 according to the Sagarin ratings. BYU's schedule ranked higher
than Ohio St, Florida St, Clemson, Wisconsin, Michigan St and Michigan, Baylor,
Louisville, TT, Vandy, Nebraska, Iowa (most of the B1G for that matter),
Miami-FL, GT, UNC, Ill, etc. Also, BYU's schedule ranking wasn't
far behind schools like Notre Dame, Oregon, AZ, OK, etc.They showed
you don't need to be in a P5 conference to have an equivalent schedule and
was able to put together a schedule ranked higher than most of the Big 10 and
higher than National Champion Florida St or Alabama. BYU's not ducking
anyone (can't say the same about some p5 schools however...).I
know in uteville facts don't count as much as wishful thinking or blind
hatred but there you have it.
@The Anti Chris"And when the PAC kicks out utah for poor
performance in the major sports then where does that leave u?"You have no idea how badly most of the PAC schools regret inviting Utah in a
quick reaction to keep up with the joneses when Texas and the other schools that
the PAC really wanted said no. On the campus of ASU, there isn't one person
who is glad to see Utah in the PAC. In an unscientific poll conducted last
month, most ASU fans rated San Diego State, Boise State, and BYU (there are a
lot of Mormons in Arizona) over Utah as better schools that should have been
invited to the PAC than Utah. I couldn't stop laughing when I read the
CB,And when the PAC kicks out utah for poor performance in the major
sports then where does that leave u?U can't ride the coat tails of
the other PAC Schools forever.When was the last time u played an SEC
school? End of discussion.
Tajmenica/maq(when you change your name and forget and then put
"continued"...If the small conference teams were too
inflexible to be able to schedule games with the SEC anyways, there would be no
need for the mandatory game against power conference teams.But
apparently the SEC knows something that you don't if they feel it necessary
to say all SEC teams must play a power conference team.
@Tajemnica,There is no reason to not give a better Boise team an
exception. There are plenty of SEC teams that may be interested in playing
Boise over BYU, as Boise has been a better program.The fact that
Boise has fewer games hardly changes the argument, as teams from other
conferences play each other all the time. In fact, every team in every
conference does it every year - so apparently its not that much of a hurdle.
TajemnicaIt's obvious that the haters are more about hating,
than they are about objectively evaluating who's deserving, and who's
not.If the overall objective of the SEC and ACC is to strength their
OOC schedules, then including BYU in the mix should be a no brainer.As the SB Nation article documented, BYU has a much stronger football resume
than many of the so-called "elite" teams in the P5 conferences.
continued... It becomes less a matter of who "deserves" an exception but
more a matter of who has the flexibility to schedule a game. That lies with the
independents. Give it to Army and Navy too for all I care. Any other independent
teams are just laughable.
@Chris BYou didn't read the actual SB nation article at all did
you? Which is ironic since the main talking points were posted right before your
last comment by Uteanymous.You are right though, the SEC could care
less that BYU needs the exception more than other schools. However, since the
point of the article is that BYU is a more deserving team than a lot of P5
members (don't worry your utes weren't listed) it would be
advantageous for the SEC to schedule BYU over a lot of bottom dwellers from P5
conferences that are "elite programs in name only."The
reason it would be advantageous to give BYU the exception rather than teams like
Boise and Fresno (besides having a longer period of success) is because of BYUs
independence. It will be A LOT more difficult for the SEC to schedule games with
teams that already have 8-9 games set each season due to being conference
members. An independent has a much more flexible schedule. Any P5 school that
wants to schedule BYU will get the game in a heartbeat because there are no
conference games to contend with.
UteanymousGreat summation of why BYU deserves to be included among
brs27,You think the SEC cares that byu is independent and needs the
exception?LOL.The SEC couldn't care less what is
good for byu, they only care what is good for the SEC.And there may
be a team in the SEC that wants to play Boise more than they want to play byu,
or maybe a team will want an exception for playing Fresno State.The
whole point of the rule is to force SEC teams to not play a mid-major in this
mandatory power conference game, and byu is a mid-major just like boise and
fresno and Utah state.It matters to byu that they are inedpenedent
and it means they may need the exception more than Boise or Utah state, but it
does not matter to the SEC.You seriously think the SEC cares you
need the exception more than boise?LOL!
- BYU isn't regularly on par with Alabama or Ohio State. But good luck
arguing that Iowa State, Purdue, Wake Forest, and at least a dozen other
power-conference teams are worthier opponents than BYU. That those schools
happen to be lucky enough to play in conferences that have been granted
"elite" status makes them elite programs in name only.
- The Cougars have more all-time wins than 11 AQ teams (including Florida State,
Louisville and Kansas State). It would be more, but they only began playing
football in 1922. Their all-time winning percentage is better than the following
33 AQ schools:Arizona, Louisville, Oregon State, Baylor, Maryland,
Purdue, California, Minnesota, Rutgers, Duke, Mississippi State, South Carolina,
Illinois, Missouri, Stanford, Indiana, NC State, TCU, Iowa, North Carolina,
Texas Tech, Iowa State, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Kansas, Oklahoma State,
Virginia, Kansas State, Ole Miss, Washington State, Kentucky, Oregon, and
Wisconsin.Sure, BYU racked up wins in the WAC and MWC, and other
lesser conferences, but come on. Rutgers is considered a worthy
out-of-conference opponent despite being forever mediocre in the Big East and
its ruins (after 122 years of independence). Louisville was in Conference USA 10
years ago. Pretty much everybody has had the chance to pile up wins in weak
leagues.- continued -
Howard S."do you really think BYU deserves an
exemption..."Let the facts speak for themselves:According to an article published by SB Nation:Counting Notre
Dame, there are currently 65 power programs, as recognized by the SEC and
ACC.- Of those 65, 24 have never won a national championship and 30
have never won a Heisman Trophy, while BYU has one of each.- The
Cougars have an all-time record of .500 or better against 18 of the 42
power-conference teams they've played, including a 3-1 mark against Texas,
the country's most advantaged program.- In three years of
Independence, BYU has beaten six teams currently in power leagues, including
Texas. In the last 10 years, that number climbs to 19, including Oklahoma. In
the last 25, they've beaten 44 power-conference teams, including
SEC-approved and ACC-partnered Notre Dame, twice.- continued -
@ Rose Bowl call yet?He lost to SDSU in 2005 who went 5-7. Bronco
lost to Utah St. in 2010. The Aggies went 2-6 in the WAC that year. He lost to
UVA last year, who went 0-8 in the ACC. Lets try another example
though. Gary Patterson didn't lose to conference bottom dwellers, yet his
team has struggled with the transition. You think BYU would be in a better
position right now than TCU is?
Pretty simple solution. If these conferences are worried about their members
maintaining a reasonable SOS in their OOC games, just allow their members to
schedule OOC games against programs whose Sagarin rating has averaged 65 or
better over the 2 (or 3) years before they're scheduled. Mission accomplished and you take all the politics out of it. Of
course you'd have to decide whether all other P5 conference members would
get an exception since a number of them wouldn't meet the Top 65 criteria.
2fer"You think BYU would have done any better?"Absolutely!Unlike Kyle, Bronco doesn't lose to fellow
conference bottom dwellers like Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV,
Colorado and Washington State.-------------fuddYou're desperately spinning if you're trying to equate Marshall,
Iowa State, Kansas, and Louisville, with Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise
State, and Washington.BYU is 5-1 versus Texas and Oklahoma. Name a
comparable pair of elite teams that Utah has an equivalent record against.Against the best conference in the country, the SEC, the Utes are 1-6 -
winless on the road (0-6), winless at home (0-0), and 1-0 at neutral sites. It's laughable that Utah fans have invited themselves to a
discussion about scheduling OOC games against SEC teams - U haven't played
an SEC team home or away since 1984.Stick with Idaho State and
Fresno State. They're more your style.
Howard S.Thanks for a nice, civil response. This is what the
message boards should be like, respectful and courteous. To answer your second
question, absolutely not. I think in considering giving BYU the exemption, the
SEC should look at BYU's whole body of work and not just at recent years.
At least from when LaVell began coaching. If I were a power conference team,
I'd rather play team's like BYU and Boise St. instead of the lesser
teams I mentioned in my previous post. The way I understand things, playing BYU
would do a whole lot more for strength of schedule and any other playoff
considering factors than playing these lesser teams. Having said that, strictly
from a fan's perspective, I totally think BYU should get the exemption. I
think BYU would only get better playing better teams therefore making them an
even more attractive opponent.
@ UteanymousYou think BYU would have done any better? Utah and TCU
have both struggled so far, and Utah and TCU both OWNED BYU....@
Cosmo1974Syracuse and Rutgers won their conference in 2012, and Duke
played in their conference championship game last year. Temple is not in a P5
conference. You make a good point, but your choice of teams was poor.
Cosmo 1974Yours is a thoughtful and honest response.But... do you really think BYU deserves an exemption because the fans think
BYU provides a challenge equal to current conference members?Boise
St fans probably think the same thing.Is it the opinion of the fan
base that is the qualifying factor for an exemption?
Lol! Is this Cougar or King of the Hill board?We came so close to
beating #6 Georgia back in 1982 with Steve Young vs Herchel Walker 17-14 during
the soggy game. Both Steve and Herchel did play in the USFL leauge at that time.
We did beat U Miss with Doman and Steley and including Ole Miss.
To me, it seems as though Utah "fans" or more accurately BYU
"haters," don't think BYU should get the SEC exemption simply
because its BYU that wants it. If any other team like Boise St., Fresno St.,
etc. wanted one, Utah "fans" would be all over that saying they deserve
one. They probably do. I think that part of the reason BYU fans think the
exemption is deserved is the fact that they believe that BYU would provide
better competition than teams like Rutgers, Temple, Duke, Syracuse, etc. To my
knowledge, none of these teams, or any of the other lesser teams in the power
conferences have ever made any real noise in their respective conferences. And
I think that is why some BYU fans think the exemption is deserved. Can anyone
really say that BYU is a worse team than some of the ones I mentioned above when
it seems that they are members of a power conference in name only?
Rose Bowl call yet?:Elmer Fudd just ate your lunch! Why do you
cougar fans always set yourselves up like that? When will you all learn how to
do a little research? Why can't you see how easy it is to blow up an
argument like yours when it's based on cherry picked talking points?
Rose Bowl call yet?"Remind us the last time Utah beat Notre
Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, or Washington.Remind us the last
time the Utes won a road game versus a PAC team with a winning record"Remind us the last time BYU beat Utah?When was the last time
BYU beat Alabama, Stanford, Marshall, Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville?
brs27Notre Dame is granted an exception because they are "Notre
Dame", and because they have a scheduling agreement with a P5 conference,
and because they play 9 P5 opponents each year... on each of these points BYU
falls short of qualification.
tomahawkRemind us the last time Utah beat Notre Dame, Oklahoma,
Texas, Boise State, or Washington.Remind us the last time the Utes
won a road game versus a PAC team with a winning record.The truth
is, the vast majority of Utah's big wins against "power conference"
teams, have come against mediocre teams, including 2004, when the Ute's
didn't beat a single regular season opponent that finished with better than
a 7-5 record.
It's laughable that Utah fans are even involved in the discussion - the
Utes haven't played an SEC team on the road in 40 years and they've
never played an SEC team at home.
howie"All 65 teams in the p5 conferences do one thing that BYU
does not do... play a minimum of 9 games against power conference
opponents"What difference does it make if you play 9 games
against PAC teams, if you lose the majority of those games?4-5, 3-6,
2-7 says it all - you simply aren't good enough to compete in a power
tomahawkI'm going to forego any comment on a Ute fan that has
the brass to say "routinely gotten clobbered by nearly every elite program
they have faced and consistently lost to power conference programs",
that's just way too easy a target given recent history.Speaking
of history, I bring it up because history matters! Notre Dame isn't being
granted an exception based on their most recent 10 years of work. Before the
last two years their performance was mediocre at best; evidenced by the
revolving door on the coach's office in South Bend. True, BYU hasn't
played in any BCS games but they were the ORIGINAL BCS busters! Utah and Boise
were only allowed access to BCS games because of the uproar when BYU, and then
BYU and Tulane were OBVIOUSLY excluded by the BCS committee DELIBERATELY. At
that point the BCS either had to crack the door or Congress was going to begin
anti-trust investigations.Finally, granting an exception to BYU does
not mean that every deserving "mid-major" team would have to be allowed.
Being an Independent means that BYU is in a unique situation; all other teams
belong to competing conferences.
Many commenters here are fans of a conference and team completely irrelevant to
this situation. Sure you can express an opinion but remember, it's a
biased one. I hope BYU gets the exemption but don't think it will
automatically doom the program if it doesn't. Many try to assert that just
"being" in a big 5 conference automatically excuses any losses and makes
you better. This simply isn't true as the article points out. I've
long believed there are many lower level big 5 schools that are not as good as
many "mid-major" teams. It's that haughty opinion that made Utah
beating Alabama so fun to watch. It's also why some programs see adding BYU
to their schedule as a way to boost their SOS. There are many reasons why
adding BYU makes sense more than adding just any old mid-major team. Comparing
an independent to teams in a conference isn't the right approach at all. I
hope it happens and if it does, it could lead to a conference affiliation even
if on a limited basis.
brs27Beaver, UTThey're still just a flash in the pan
compared to BYU----------When are you going to let go of
the belief BYU deserves inclusion based on what they did 30 years ago... while
other teams that have performed substantially better than BYU over the last
decade don't?Flash in the pan... you've got to be kidding.
BSU has gone to and won multiple BCS games. They have been consistently ranked
in the top 10. They have beaten numerous power conference and elite programs.
They are now entering a slightly less successful stage, but their resume has a
ton of accolades.Meanwhile, BYU never made even one BCS bowl game,
let alone won one. They have routinely gotten clobbered by nearly every elite
program they have faced and consistently lost to power conference programs. All
BYU has done over the last decade is show they can beat on a slate of dogs, and
toss in a victory here and there over a moderately decent mid-major.At least BSU has been a flash in the pan... while BYU can't even claim
that status yet.
BYU should not be granted an exception in any way shape or form.Reason is simple -- if you allow BYU, why not allow every other G5 team to
fill the requirement? And at that point, the requirement becomes useless.It is not fair to the other G5 teams that BYU gets an exception and they
don't, since they are all mid-majors.Then you get to the
argument of why does BYU deserve and exception when all the other G5 teams
don't? BYU's recent win-loss record? The fact that their fans THINK
they should be a power team? What?Well then that argument goes down
the drain once BYU experiences a lag in success, and other G5 teams not included
experience a spike in success.No, it's not fair so they should
not give BYU anything. They haven't earned that respect.
Geez, so many jabs being exchanged today. I think it would be in the best
interest of the SEC to allow the exception, because BYU provides name
recognition in addition to being a quality opponent. Just look at what WSU
almost did to Auburn last year. I think BYU could play spoiler to SEC teams more
often than the likes of a WSU.
All 65 teams in the p5 conferences do one thing that BYU does not do... play a
minimum of 9 games against power conference opponents.With a
schedule consisting of a few P5 schools and mostly MWC and AAC schools, BYU does
not consistently meet the competitive level of 9 P5 games.There is
no reason BYU'S schedule should be considered equivalent to a p5
schedule.BYU can level the playing field by scheduling 9 p5 games a
year or joining a p5 conference, but until then there is no justification for a
"BYU is making independence viable"Yes, BYU has done the best it
can with independence - better than Utah could have done with independence.
Kudos! But "viable" doesn't shed the "mid-major" label,
and that is what the SEC and ACC are concerned about for scheduling.The line is clearly being drawn. BYU should make an effort to get inside the
circle, but Plan B isn't bad either. After the 65 break away, BYU could
rule the remaining mid-majors. Think of the exposure to be had winning the
Division 1B National Title. That's almost guaranteed to make Sports
Back to the original comment, let's not get carried away with Boise State.
Over the past decade or so they've had a great program; and props to them
for making it happen in Boise, which is at least as difficult a location as
Provo. But they're still just a flash in the pan compared to BYU; and now
they've got to survive the loss of Chris Peterson. Let's talk again
in 20 years and see how things are going.
Unfortunately, I believe that the majority of the posters on here are correct.
I don't believe that BYU has done enough winning against the so called
"power conferences" to convince them that playing and defeating BYU
would enhance their resume for a playoff spot. Until we (BYU) start
winning the majority of our games against the schools in the power conferences,
I don't see why they would include BYU in any scheduling plans.
Duckhunter,Isn't it intesting that no big time conference wants
to invite byu?LOLIf byu had half the value and was half
the powerhouse byu fans think they are, every conference in the nation would be
calling.Maybe Holmoe is just busy deciding between the pac 12 and
big 12 huh?LOL. Keep telling yourself that
I like how those first 4 posts are from utah "fans" desperate that it
doesn't happen. if they truly "don't care" then they truly
wouldn't care but of course their comments here prove otherwise. It truly
cuts deep into their false sense of superiority (which is really just to mask
their inferiority complex) that BYU is making independence viable and
profitable. utah could never do such a thing, they have to depend on other much
greater institutions to prop them up and carry them along like a charity case
because they offer nothing on their own. Nothing.We'll know
when the delusional desires of chris b and 54iq are actually real when they are
no longer commenting on each and every BYU article. Until that time their
constant hysterical and frantic posts about everything BYU does will just
continue to expose the inferiority they feel and their desperation to convince
themselves otherwise. lol
...continuedI did my research and since 2002...ONE... ONE SEC team
has scheduled BYU and that was OLD MISS. So as I said before, give them the
exception. Chances are, SEC teams will still not schedule BYU so it makes very
little difference, although now that BYU is independent they may get a couple
The SB article calls lesser teams in the power conferences: "worst
power-conference teams"That fits Utah very well! They won't
get 6 wins so they'll enjoy their popcorn bowl for the holidays.
Oh come on Chris B, you are better than that. Use a different argument for a
change. This is just becoming old. Are you simply copying and pasting from every
other article you've ever commented on? Do you think it will actually make
a difference for BYU's chances at the NC or the playoffs if they get the
inclusion? Probably not. I say give it to them and let them see how they handle
it. How many SEC teams have they played anyway? The answer: not many.
The P5 is trying to separate the haves from the have nots. They need a reason to
They aren't notre dame and don't deserve the exception. And frankly the sec doesn't care if it hurts byu, and they
shouldn't. Boise is a better program and what if they want an
exception?Or Fresno? I will love it when the sec tells
byu "no"The power 5 are becoming division I and byu and the
rest division IIPretty soon the power 5 will permanently separate
and form our own playoffs with the real national title. The smaller
schools can form their own playoffs or whatever, we don't care
Based on the same criteria, it should be even harder to exclude Army. And Navy
has a Heisman winner, too... Roger Staubach.If religious persecution
is the angle to be played, let's hope the Jehovah's Witnesses
don't create a university and field a football team, because they
wouldn't be able to play on Saturday... which actually might make them a
great opponent for BYU, playing week nights.
BYU should not receive any scheduling exemption greater than Utah State, Boise
State, and others. If the 5 major conferences are requiring scheduling
agreements with their member schools to insure a strength of schedule necessary
to secure a spot in the 4 team playoff, why would they want to let a game
against BYU count as a "major conference school" game ? BYU
fan doesn't care either. All they care about is 6 wins against the easiest
competition they can find to insure attendance at a meaningless bowl game.