Does American policy value work?

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  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    May 10, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    Addendum: Looking at the above picture is such a mockery and joke. These politicians must think people are so stupid! "A fair shot for everyone". I am certain they think they are dealing with Kindergarten age appropriate slogans! These are the most corrupt patronizing millionaires around. A business man embezzling money from poor widows has more integrity than these guys! I find it beyond words to describe the fluffy supporters of these guys! Come on, America, wake up and get your heads out of the sand! These men have been in power so long and deluded so many people that they actually believe they are doing good!

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    May 10, 2014 8:23 a.m.

    The problem with progressives is that they see everything as a zero sum game! Is it any wonder that they continue to come up with ideas to " help" people! They have never been able to see the worth of each individual! They only embody the worst human trait of them all, pity! Feeling sorry for anyone has never helped one solitary person! Here is an idea for all those "pity" minded progressives! How about if the government gave every father who had a job an extra 10k as a way to keep them incentivized to work and also allowed mom to stay home! I am absolutely certain that one idea is worth all the other ideas every democrat or republican has come up with combined to "help" people! The strain on our tax system would be far less! Mothers could actually be doing something they are better at than dad, and dad's can go to work! Oh, wait a minute! Then all those politicians would lose power! It is too simple! Excuse me! Government doesn't like simplicity! They want to create another rat hole managed by bureaucrats and abetted by ignorant and pseudo "helpers" of the working class!

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    May 9, 2014 10:49 a.m.

    If we could pay off the national debt and actually just pay for services needed. Then we could cut taxes completely for the bottom 40% earners a small tax for the next 40% and the same tax on the top 20%.

    But, we have a debt is wealth mentality and buy buy buy who cares about the consequences as long as our immediate needs are pampered.

    Oh well, no matter what all of our debt is going to hit the fan, making the housing bubble burst seem like a ripple.

  • Ender Salt Lake City, UT
    May 7, 2014 10:52 p.m.

    Personally, I can't stand even the idea of the minimum wage! It ties businesses' hands and makes the USA less competitive in the global economy. Basic economics teaches that all artificial limits create inefficiencies. I want a strong economy that will be able to employee my kids and their kids, so I don't like inefficient limits!

    Now the EITC is altogether different. It essentially does the same thing as the minimum wage (anti-poverty device). However, it does not place any inefficient restrictions on business and the economy. Talk to any economist (or just google it), and you'll see the economic advantages of using this tool over the minimum wage.

    Unfortunately, the better option for our economy (EITC) is politically disliked. There's no appetite in the current environment to increase federal spending for welfare programs, even if they have proven incredibly effective like the EITC has. It's far easier for politicians to force businesses to pay for the subsidy via minimum wage increases, even though it's less effective for the families it would actually affect, not to mention that it's worse for the economy as a whole.

  • michaelitos Salt Lake City, UT
    May 7, 2014 10:37 p.m.

    @Midwest Mom
    You claim that the rich are sheltering their money off shore and fail to "give in abundance". Unfortunately, if one looks at the tax burden by income, the most recent data released by the IRS(2010) shows that the top 10% of income earners paid 71% of the total personal income tax burden! This is especially startling considering that they earned only 45% of all income.

    Contrast that with those whom you term "givers". The bottom 50% of income earners paid just 2% of the tax burden, but earned 12% of income.

    Before we start up the populist rhetoric and class wars, let's look at the facts!

  • KJR Alpine, UT
    May 7, 2014 7:45 p.m.

    Raising minimum wages sounds noble, but where does the extra money come from? Does it generate more customers? More customers with more money to pay a higher price for the goods and services? More payroll money for the employer (or does he lay 2 of his 10 workers off). The unspoken mantra of do-gooders is "there will be no unintended consequences." When you change laws and policies people react -- generally in ways totally predictable to anyone outside Washington DC. There there are some that want to introduce even more regulations to make us toe the line on the first set. If I recall, however, we repealed slavery in the 13th amendment.

  • Kings Court Alpine, UT
    May 7, 2014 6:55 p.m.

    Americans value work more than most cultures. We value it so much that we have become slaves to our jobs, often ignoring our families. The pursuit of material gain is something Jesus spoke out against many times.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    May 7, 2014 6:42 p.m.

    mcdugall –
    Her plan reduces income tax as an incentive for both parents to work.

    That would make the work place more competitive for everyone. Job seeking is a zero-sum game, a win-lose situation. If the spouse of an employed worker gets a job, someone else will not get that job. That means someone will be unemployed. And that person could be the sole provider for his or her family.

    Is it better for families to have SOME money coming in or NO money coming in? If both spouses are further incentivized to work, then it’s very likely that sole breadwinners in other families could lose their jobs because of that added competition.

    That would reduce government revenue because the incentive is in the form of a tax DECREASE for families with two working spouses. The worker displaced by a working spouse would no longer be paying the normal tax, and the government would be without that revenue ... thus adding to the budget deficit and the debt.

    Parents would be spending less time with their kids. And it’s good for kids to have parents with time to parent.

  • mcdugall Murray, UT
    May 7, 2014 6:01 p.m.

    @GaryO - I see a lot of reference's to bad plan. bad this.. bad that.. can you please substantiate, with data, your reasoning that this is a bad idea?

    @No One Of Consequence - This bill in no way legislates prosperity. I wouldn't consider anyone making 10.10 an hour prosperous, they are simply surviving.

    @patriot - President Obama and the "liberals" have not been able to pass any meaningful piece of legislation since 2010. The only legislation that seems to be passed it bill preventing financial catastrophe, although Mike Lee and Ted Cruz certainly like to drive really close to the financial cliff. Next theory?

    @Fred44 - I hope that was satire.

    @lost in DC - If only the DN would allow the posting of links. The greatest growth and prosperity this country has ever seen was under Democrat leadership. Also, more jobs have been created under the BO administration than under GW and BO still has ~3 years left in office.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    May 7, 2014 5:27 p.m.

    Hey lost -

    " . . . sorry you are so implacable . . . "

    Yeah? You must be even sorrier that millions of voters are just as implacable.

    You do recall, don't you that Obama beat Romney by what was it? . . . 124 electoral votes.

    A solid MAJORITY of your fellow American voters made the correct choice . . . AGAIN.

    That just goes to show that while the Koch brothers can buy votes and influence impressionable minds . . . the MAJORITY of Americans are not nearly that simple-minded.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    May 7, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    I have no confidence in anything coming from the dems, especially not Patty Murray (though she’s not worse than harry or BO)

    An increase in the minimum wage will kill 500,000 jobs (CBO estimates).

    Her proposal to give a 20% deduction to the second income has some merit, but she links it to the indigestible minimum wage hike. What is wrong with encouraging a stay-at-home parent? Patty’s first campaign slogan was she was just a mom in tennis shoes. I guess there is something wrong with that now, though she wore the moniker with pride when she first ran for senate.

    Fix the overall economy, which BO and the dems are incapable of doing, and things will improve for workers.

    Glad we could educate you – you are welcome

    sorry you are so implacable

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    May 7, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Hey Fred44 -

    " . . . everyday I learn of something else that President Obama has done to ruin this country. . ."

    You're not learning anything.

    You're just soaking up right wing lies like a sponge.

    You aren't making observations. You're just repeating falsehoods.

    Don't feel bad. Millions of Americans are just like that. They're called "Conservatives."

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 7, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    I love reading the Deseret News discussion boards. Everyday I learn of something else that President Obama has done to ruin this country. It is pretty amazing what he has been able to accomplish in less than 6 years. He has pretty much ruined everything great every done in this country all by himself. I shudder to think of what damage he can do in the next three years. Lucky for us we have the far right Like our good Senator Lee and Representative Chaffetz in Washington to try and save us.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 7, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    The Obama adminstration and the liberals in congress have created law and a culture that acutally discourages work and encourages people instead to just turn to the government for the free handouts. By doing this dispicable thing the Democrats create a dependency chain that keeps them in power ....which is the main idea. Now we know why America is falling being China this year as the #2 economic power. This free fall for America will only get worse unless we root out all of these Socialist - Marxist - polititians from the presidency, congress and local legislatures.

  • vern001 Castle Rock, CO
    May 7, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    I think it's pretty clear that we don't value work. When hedge fund managers and financiers pay 15% capital gains taxes on all their millions while school teachers and police officers pay 25% for long hours and little pay, it's pretty clear that hard work has been devalued in favor of speculation.

    How about we reverse things, and give the people who are actually working by the sweat of their brow a tax break and make those who play the roulette--oops, stock market--pay a little more?

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    May 7, 2014 8:13 a.m.

    Why do the people who tell us you can't legislate morality also tell us they can legislate prosperity? Government's efforts to manipulate the economy are very much like pushing a rope: if it seems to be working it is only because it's going downhill.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    May 7, 2014 8:08 a.m.

    I hope that incite has the same idea about owing anyone success when it comes to all the privileges that are given to the upper classes. Then, it's called protecting the "job creators." In truth, the real wealth creators are those who do the labor. An idea is just that, until someone does the work to make it and someone has wages to purchase the product. By worshiping the wealthy, America has become a second-class nation. Since many of the uber-wealthy shelter their money offshore, it begins to become a question of what it means to be a true patriot. Is America just a place to exploit, with no investment of blood or treasure? The working class gives in abundance. The top earners not so much. Kind of changes the definition of "makers" and "takers."

  • Incite Full Layton, UT
    May 7, 2014 7:36 a.m.

    "When a group is unfortunate, we have a tendency to blame them rather than see situational things that make it difficult for them," she says.

    Actually we live in a country founded on the idea of self-reliance, so when things go wrong, rather than blaming circumstances outside of ourselves, we tend to find things we can do as individuals to better our situation.

    The idea that the country owes me success is foreign to most americans, as it should be.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    May 7, 2014 7:07 a.m.

    Rep Patty Murray's bill is unwise.

    It's a Bad plan.

    So the plan is to incentivize both parents in a family to work? . . . by reducing taxes?

    What would that accomplish?

    It would make the work place more competitive for everyone (making it harder for job seekers to get a job), while simultaneously reducing badly needed government revenue, while simultaneously reducing the time parents can spend with their children.

    Bad plan.

  • Sasha Pachev Provo, UT
    May 7, 2014 6:57 a.m.

    The solution is to fix the economy so that the second income is not needed. Two working parents is a counter-productive paradigm. The mother already has a full-time job. If we could keep the mother at home 40 years ago with the relatively primitive technology of that time sure we should be able to do it today. But in spite of the blessing of technology we have cursed ourselves with extreme inefficiency. We do the work that does not need to be done while neglecting what actually matters. We do poorly with using the resources at hand. When any extra money or time becomes available we find a way to waste it. Indeed a fulfillment of Haggai 1:6 - "he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes".