GOP should stop fighting Obamacare and work to improve it

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  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    May 5, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    To "mark" I am sorry that you are unable to get to the Flat Earth Society web site. I am also sorry that you are unable to read their liberal posts. What worries me most is the fact that the Flat Earth Society's support of Al Gore and his Global Warming is lost to most on the left.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    May 3, 2014 7:23 p.m.

    So, Redshirt, in other words, no, you could not prove one of those claims. You couldn't prove your claim that the same percentage of liberals believe Obama was born in Kenya as conservatives (you didn't even try). You could not prove your claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement (prove that Hillary did, not some annonymous "supporter". Give me the quote from her mouth). You also couldn't back up your claim that "more liberals believe that the earth is flat than conservatives." It doesn't matter if you think the flat earth society has liberal philosophy. To back your claim you would have to have a far broader study then one single organization. (You could make the claim that the flat earth society is liberal, if they are, but that is not what you said. You made a broad characterization based on one small observation. Of course that's business as usual with you.)

    Besides, flat earthers, historically have based their believe on the bible. And the Canadian flat earth society was totally tongue in cheek.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 1, 2014 8:57 p.m.

    what the writer of this post fails to understand is the fact that the divide between the Socialist Left in this country and the Constitutional Right is as WIDE and DEEP as the Grand Canyon and growing by the month. There are NO points of compromise. There is NO common ground. Not anymore ...not since Barack got the keys to the White House. Ronald Reagan was once asked what his thoughts were on the Cold War with the USSR ....he said "it's simple, we win and they lose". Reagan's words are as true today as they were then except today the Cold War is not with the USSR is with the progressive left in this country. No there is no war of bullets and bombs but there certainly is a war none the less and the only option is to fight for our childrens future...or what is left of it. I have no use for liberals / progressives / democrats....maybe 30 years ago but certainly not today. The Jack Kennedy Democrats don't exist today...not even close.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 1, 2014 8:46 p.m.

    As a software engineer the WORST thing you can ever do is attempt to bandaide a bad architecture. What results is a terribly inefficient, terribly hard to maintain and usually almost unusable piece of software that the customer hates. The best and obvious choice is to simply scrap the design and start over with new design goals and a sound well thought threw architecture.

    With Obamacare you have a nightmarishly bad architecture both from a software standpoint as well as a policy and law stand point. So to suggest we keep the bad design and try to bandaide it is absurd. Of course you scrap the thing and of course you start fresh ...THAT IS IF you really want to solve health care in America. The Democrats hatched this historical train wreck of a bill NOT to solve health care but instead to FORCE Socialism on America and anyone paying even casual attention understands that. The goal is NOT to create good health care - the goal is to create BIG Government which forces wealth redistribution and controls all aspects of its citizens lives by making them dependent citizens ...not free citizens. Free citizens don't need or want Socialism.

  • LiberalJimmy Salt Lake City, UT
    May 1, 2014 6:41 p.m.

    @Red Shirt...Nice stab in the dark. Apparently you did not read my retort regarding your non factual postings. Confirmation and admission of facts are quite different my dear friend. Secretary Clinton's "followers" as you so eloquently stated by no means continued the ridiculous birther movement once she recanted and then later apologized. Now I believe that I've been unfortunate to have read several of your anti Obama/Liberal rhetoric which can be found in many of your blathering posts. I.E Regarding how Obama was in fact born in Kenya which means he could not "legitimately" become President. I'm most certain you remember even though conservatives have in fact a difficult time with remembering. At no time did I mention the physical action of voting for Cruz (myself and many Liberals would thank you for this) was a double standard but rather the argument yourself and many conservatives have continue using to this day regarding Obama's birth.. Where was Cruz born? Now as far as The Flat Earth Society is concerned your point is because some of their views are deemed "liberal" by yourself and other conservatives this in fact makes them a liberal origination?

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    May 1, 2014 3:31 p.m.

    To "Jimmytheliberal" you should read what I said. I clearly stated that it was Clinton and her followers that started the Birther movement. You haev only confirmed that. Clinton may have appologized for it, but her followers kept it going for a while and it does all go back to her.

    How is voting for Ted Cruze a double standard? I didn't vote for Obama because he is a socialist, not because of where he was born.

    It is only a lack of intellect that would assume hypocrisy where none exists.

    You do realize that it is the Flat Earth Society that believes in man caused global warming, and that the Flat earth Society is quite liberal in their views. If you don't believe me, go to their web site and see for yourself.

  • Jimmytheliberal Salt Lake City, UT
    April 30, 2014 6:24 p.m.

    @Red Shirt...Sir or Madame I applaud your attempt at deflection regarding the birther movement that continues this very day during the middle of our President's second term. Yes. Secretary Clinton did in fact speak of this during the Democratic primaries. However, Secretary Clinton not only recanted but quite quickly apologized. She did not at any time question the validity of President Obama's birth certificate. Thank you for your admission that in fact you would vote for Canadian born Ted Cruz, once again applying a double standard (Regardless of his mother being in fact born in America). The lack of intellect to make this decision alone speaks volume. As far as the topic of science is concerned I believe your party is still denying climate change in 2014! Therefore, I believe we should not even speak of your comment regarding the Faux News rhetoric that in fact more liberals believe that the World is flat then do conservatives. Especially Utah born conservatives. May I suggest that cavemen riding a top dinosaurs be removed from classroom textbooks in the State of (guess what?) Texas prior to discussing this topic. What State does Cruz represent again?

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    April 30, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    To "mark" that is too easy.

    See "Birther row began with Hillary Clinton" in the UK Telegraph. If that isn't enough, News Busters' article "NY Times Flubs Timeline of 'Birther' Myth: First Spread by Hillary Clinton Supporters in 2008" also shows how Clinton started the Birther movement. In the Politico article you missed the line "That theory first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama's citizenship." They continue to quote the email being sent around by Clinton supporters that stated "Barack Obama's mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy. She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth". That sure sounds like the basic Birther theory, and it was pushed by Clinton supporters first.

    As for the flat earth society, if you go to their web site and read their forums, they do support a lot of liberal causes and bash the GOP and capitalism. I don't see many conservatives bashing the GOP or capitalism.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    April 30, 2014 7:21 a.m.

    Those who oppose Obamacare have never been denied coverage or have had a child denied coverage. They have never had to cash in their 401K to pay medical expenses or have they lost their home. Maybe they have never been denied medicine coverage because they have reached their life time limit.

    It is a good thing that Obamacare has been enacted because your worlds will remain perfect.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 6:25 p.m.

    Redshirt, can you provide the proof for this claim:

    "You also know that there are about the same percentage of liberals that believe Obama was born in Kenya as conservatives"

    And can you provide the language from the two articles you present that backs this claim:

    "is well documented that Hilary Clinton and her supporters started the whole Birther movement."

    Go ahead and back up this one also while you're at it:

    "You realize that more liberals believe that the earth is flat than conservatives."

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    April 29, 2014 12:36 p.m.

    To "Jimmytheliberal" it is well documented that Hilary Clinton and her supporters started the whole Birther movement. See "Birther row began with Hillary Clinton" in the UK Telegraph. Also see "Birtherism: Where it all began" in Politico.

    You realize that more liberals believe that the earth is flat than conservatives.

    As for Ted Cruz, yes I would vote for him. He is a natural born citizen, just like Obama. See "Sen. Ted Cruz still citizen of U.S. and Canada" in USA Today where they explain the legal definition and qualifications to be a natural born citizen.

    To "pragmatistferlife" by your ilk, I mean liberal/Progressives that are sprinting towards increased government control of our lives. Nothing else that you have done acedemically, financially, or within your church are in question at this time. Your acedemics, finances, and church calling is no different than many conservatives.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 11:12 p.m.

    @Anti Government
    "What would liberal democrats do if the tables were reversed? Soros would be pouring billions into overturning it and the liberal sheep would be lined up behind him if the republicans had used the same parliamentary stunts and 100% party line vote (that needed every single strong-armed liberal vote via threat and bribe) to get it passed."

    Democrats would've worked to help improve things, wouldn't have voted 50 times to repeal it, and would've actually deemed legislating part of their job description so they would've been involved from the start (see: Medicare Part D, Romneycare).

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 11:11 p.m.

    @Fitness Freak
    "Obamacare WILL be repealed for the variety of reasons that others have already pointed out."

    No it won't, even Scott Brown and that Cotton guy in Arkansas are already backing off of total repeals while Begich and Pryor are on the offensive. Republicans are not going to repeal it because you aren't going to just take away health insurance from 30 million people in 2017 (the earliest it'd even be possible and the minimum expected to have some sort of Obamacare insurance by then) without pushback.

  • Jimmytheliberal Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 5:53 p.m.

    @Red Shirt...The fact that yourself and most of the irrational tea party still desire to waste time on this ridiculous topic speaks volumes. The tea party and neo conservatives continue to hold our country hostage will find any poll and twist it dramatically in their favor. Especially if it is anti Obama. Care to site sources regarding Democrats believing our President was born in Kenya? How about the Earth being flat? Did you hear that one on Hannity or Limbaugh? That's what I thought. To myself and the rest of us that possess intellect it's quite ridiculous your party still whines about this to the very day. How about coming together for the good of the people for once? In closing, I'm certain that you would have no issue voting for Ted Cruz in 2016. Where was he born again? That's right Alberta. As in Canada! Now let the backwards thinking spin begin....

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    April 28, 2014 5:47 p.m.

    RedShirt "To "pragmatistferlife" because it puts the burden on the hospital to determine who is actually needy and who is not. Hospitals will cut down significantly on free care once you actually have to pay for it."

    That makes no sense at all. It will cut down on free health care once you have to pay for it? That's what the ACA does. Makes it so the everyone has to pay what they can. What is not conservative about that?

    My ilk? You mean someone who paid his way through both undergraduate and graduate school, who worked two jobs where he had to travel a hundred miles to and from the second job, you mean someone who could work a full time job, raise five children, hold a high church position, attend graduate school and get straight A's, run over 80 miles a week and set PR's every weekend all at the same time.

    Yet..still knows that I owe my upbringing, my culture, my friends, and a giving society for all of these opportunities. You mean that kind of ilk?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 28, 2014 4:34 p.m.

    To "pragmatistferlife" because it puts the burden on the hospital to determine who is actually needy and who is not. Hospitals will cut down significantly on free care once you actually have to pay for it.

    Actually your ilk does put the collective over individuals, you just don't accept that truth. Just look at the massive welfare state created by liberals. It takes from those that work to give to those that don't, it disregards a person's freedom to do with their property as they please. Look at what the liberals are pushing for on the TV and Internet. Your ilk wants to force News agencies into a new version of the "Fairness Doctrine". It destroys the ability of news commentators to engage in free speech. There are countless examples of your ilk putting the collective ahead of individual rights.

    Yes, conservatives reject the idea of putting the collective first. That has always been a bad policy.

    I don't know where your gun rant came from, but statistics show that where there are more conceal carry permit holders, crime goes DOWN. Do you want to live in a crime filled city?

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    April 28, 2014 4:18 p.m.

    RedShirt, and just how is giving tax credits to hospitals for free health care not me paying for your family's health care?

    And no we don't value the collective over the individual. In fact most progressive policies are intended to promote individual freedom, mostly through opportunity.

    The problem conservatives have is they don't realize you can't separate the individual from the collective. The individual cannot function without the collective so the challenge is to balance the promotion of both.

    In reality it's the conservative who rejects the collective not the progressive who rejects the individual. Thus (my term) freedom fetish.

    It's like the right's mania for guns. less than 1% of Americans who don't live in inner cities will ever face a situation where a gun will make any difference at all but yet we have over 350 million guns in America.

    In actuality guns are just a proxy for freedom. a rallying call for an irrational view of liberty.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 28, 2014 3:43 p.m.

    Why didn't we work to improve it BEFORE we passed it???

    Why was one party locked out of the room when they were working on it? And told in no uncertain terms that they didn't care what they wanted... they have the votes to pass anything they want and they don't need any minority votes to get what they want??

    If it was great law... why put off most of it till his second term? Re-election?

    If it's great law... why put off the most painful parts till he's out of office???

    Few people are impacted by the mandates now... but when the corporate mandate hits... the majority of Americans will be affected. We will see if they really LIKE this law... or not...


    I think the answer will be... not. And we will need another solution.

    It's too late to go back (that will NEVER happen). So our only option will be... you guessed it... what they wanted all along.... single-payer at least, and government healthcare if they can push far enough.

    If we don't like that... we are out of options...

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 28, 2014 3:22 p.m.

    Resistance if futile... you will be assimilated....

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 3:10 p.m.

    "Liberals and Progressives do not want to have insurance companies at all. They want a single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system. A system, where THEY get to decide not only what level of care you get, but whether or not you get health care at all." (THEY? Who is THEY? As opposed to bureaucrats within the private, for profit, insurance companies making those decisions?) "Over 70, too bad, we're not paying for that expensive procedure. Why don't you just die?"

    Uh. . . Dude, you realize that people over 70 are part of that "single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system", right? Tell you what, why doesn't the right tell people over 70 that they are going to take them off the "single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system" and put them in the private market. HaHaHa.


    "The best thing about the Tea party is that no one knows who they are and where there leaders are!"

    Hahaha. Brilliant. So this guy says Tea Party people are following people and they don't even know who they are. And that's a good thing. Brilliant.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 28, 2014 2:59 p.m.

    To "Jimmytheliberal" why are you ripping on liberals like you. You do know that "neo conservatives" are just liberals that use the military to bring their message to the world.

    You also know that there are about the same percentage of liberals that believe Obama was born in Kenya as conservatives, and that is actually a minority. Less than 25% of conservatives believe Obama was born in Kenya.

    Why should conservatives get over the ACA? Do we still have Jim Crowe laws? Can women vote? Do you have to be a land owner to vote? Apparently lots of people have refused to "get over it" when bad laws were enacted, and were able to get rid of the bad laws.

  • Jimmytheliberal Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 1:44 p.m.

    @Procuradorfiscal, @Cats...It always seems to be the same highly intellectual posters refusing to acknowledge basic facts that live inside this closed minded neo conservative bubble where the Earth is still flat and our President was born in Kenya. The ACA is now the law of the land and our President is black. Get over it!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 28, 2014 1:36 p.m.

    The ACA was not intended to succeed... it was intended to make Americans so miserable with the private system we have... that they will BEG the government to step in and save them with what the Democrats have always wanted (but knew the Public didn't want). But they WILL want it IF... they can destroy our private system.

    But you really need to give ACA time to work (or fail, which is what it was intended to do).

    If you pull the plug too early... people will not be miserable enough and may actually want to KEEP elements of the PRIVATE system.

    Real Progressives do not want us to move too early... wait till people are gagging and begging for the antidote... or the ACA will have really failed on ALL fronts...


    It's a calculate risk (to sabotage the system you have so people will beg for the alternative they don't want now). But it looks like it may work...

    The one thing that's for sure... there's no going back... We already sunk that ship. Now we need to stick with the life-raft until somebody comes to save us (progressives politicians and government assistance)...

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 28, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    To "pragmatistferlife" you are partially right, but then totally wrong.

    You are correct that "conservatives are not really concerned about providing a health care system where all are covered and all pay." Why should you be forced to pay for my family's health insurance? If I decide to risk my finances by not having insurance, then I should be allowed to risk that. We should also get rid of the mandate that hospitals treat anybody that comes through their doors. They should be required to work out payment plans or be allowed to waive fees for the poor in exchange for tax credits.

    The problem that you and your liberal ilk have is that you put liberty and freedom second to the collective. The problem with that thinking is that once you have cut freedom and liberty in favor of the collective, nobody is free.

    To "SG in SLC" actually the Gadianton Robbers are alive in the Progressive Democrats and Republicans. The Gadiantons cannot exist where government has little power because they can only exist where government can be corrupted. Hence, small government, little power, and a more difficult thing to corrupt. The Tea Party wants a small government.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    "For those of you who think that the Tea Party is a radical fringe element: As a delegate to the state Convention, I witnessed a rousing standing ovation for Mike Lee when he was announced" -bandersen

    Actually, that is simply evidence that the Caucus/Delegate system is fundamentally flawed (particularly on the GOP side in Utah), because it is not truly representative of the moderate-conservative GOP mainstream. These are the folks who consider anyone not positioned somewhere to the "right" of Rand Paul to be RINOs.

    "The best thing about the Tea party is that no one knows who they are and where there leaders are!" -bandersen

    Sounds like Gadianton Robbers to me . . .

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 28, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    "It seems rather childish of democrats to expect the republicans to fix the mess the democrats made. If the democrats want the ACA fixed, they should do it themselves. After all, they created it themselves."

    I love it. It is akin to "the other guy ran the boat onto the rocks, why would we bail water"..

    A wise manager of mine early in my career said to me once when I had messed something up " I don't care one bit how we got here, all I care is what you are going to do next". This endless finger pointing game of blame solves no problems. What we need is smart people who are more interested in fixing problems rather than standing at a podium pointing fingers of blame.

    We had problems with medical care before ACA, and we have problems now. Lets focus of fixing problems rather than political grandstanding.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 28, 2014 11:03 a.m.

    "Yeah, that's why it has a totalitarian, forced participation component"

    Do you own a car? Drive it? Buy insurance?

    Here is the deal. Because of the law passed under Reagan, everyone gets needed medical care (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - EMTALA). The government told the medical system they had to treat everyone. What that law passed under Reagan didn't do was provide any funding mechanism to fund these federal mandated and guaranteed services.

    So we have an option. If you get rid of ACA, then you should also eliminate EMTALA. You need to repeal Reagan's "totalitarian, forced participation component" from medical providers.

    Sound fair?

    You can't mandate services without providing a funding mechanism.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 28, 2014 10:26 a.m.


    "If you don't want it (and of course, that means you don't need it, right?) Then don't participate!"

    And don't ask us to pay any fines.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 28, 2014 10:17 a.m.

    The best way to fight it is by not signing up for it and not filing your tax returns so you won't have to pay the penalty. They can't imprison everybody.

  • annes albuquerque, NM
    April 28, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    Obamacare is becoming more and more popular as its positive effects are felt. Many of our fellow citizens can get health insurance and see their Dr. for the first time in years.

    Yet conservatives continue to demand Repeal and Replace. But they never say what they want to replace Obamacare with. I suspect the replacement plan is to restore the former practice of letting the health insurers take peoples' premiums then bounce their claims. If it hasn't happened to you, it can't now, unless Obamacare is repealed without a replacement plan.

    Whatever will the gop and conservatives do on voting day 2014 if they can't keep voters riled up with anti-Obamacare propaganda? They won't close the government again or try to take the US government into bankruptcy until after the upcoming election. They are too smart to make that mistake again in the immediate run up to an election. But if you return them to office, just wait for 2015 and beyond. It's not just Obamacare they want to repeal, Medicare, Medicaid and also Social Security are on their chopping block. (See idazut's comment. Rikitiki did you object to Bush's EOs?)

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    April 28, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    Two facts that override this entire ACA discussion.

    Fact 1) conservatives are not really concerned about providing a health care system where all are covered and all pay.

    Fact 2) Conservatives are obsessed with the idea of liberty to the exclusion of other founding principles.

    If the ACA has a corrupting principle it is that it is market based. Markets never were and never will be designed to provide universal access to anything. If you promote a market based health insurance system you have to admit to the first fact.

    The Declaration of Independence speaks of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Conservatives act as though Liberty is the catalyst of the other two rather than one leg of a three legged process that requires interaction and choices in order to provide a civil society.

    The ACA is just a symbol of ideology where those who actually believe in Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness can be labeled socialists, communist, Marxists etc., and a playground for those who don't believe in the phrase "for all".

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    April 28, 2014 7:44 a.m.

    Today's GOP is not going to work to improve the ACA. That's ridiculous. Just as they would not work to imporve Social Security or Medicare. Their goal is to remove the public safety nets in our socieity and return the money to the people.

  • ohiowhit New Albany, OH
    April 28, 2014 7:05 a.m.

    It's the majority of American People who don't want Obamacare, not just the GOP. Many leaders from the Democratic Party are also increasingly opposing this bad legislation as they see the negative impact it's having, and the coming fallout. And this even with the strong, very biased push from the national media.

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:01 p.m.

    "Mike Lee knows what he is doing and the 4,000 delegates responded in like manner! Utah should be leading the nation with more Mike Lees!!!!!"

    Welcome to the ultra-conservative bubble within the national conservative bubble. The tide has turned. I pray heads don't explode when both bubbles pop during the next two elections and President Clinton ushers in the single-payer plan we should have had to begin with.

    Apocalypse will be predicted, but, five years later, it will be as loved and indispensable as Social Security. Which will be fixed by taxing us at Ronald Reagan rates.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    April 27, 2014 10:27 p.m.

    It seems rather childish of democrats to expect the republicans to fix the mess the democrats made. If the democrats want the ACA fixed, they should do it themselves. After all, they created it themselves.

  • Anti Government Alpine, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:50 p.m.

    The liberal hypocrisy is endless.

    What would liberal democrats do if the tables were reversed? Soros would be pouring billions into overturning it and the liberal sheep would be lined up behind him if the republicans had used the same parliamentary stunts and 100% party line vote (that needed every single strong-armed liberal vote via threat and bribe) to get it passed.

    There is no good legislation that can't get a single vote from the other party and that goes to both sides.

    The ACA act is anything but affordable. My decent 80/20 plan has turned into $4000 out of pocket before I get ANY insurance coverage. Effectively if I don't have catastrophic illness I have no insurance despite the fact I pay $6000 in premiums and $4000 out of pocket. $10000 per year and I get nothing in return.

    Who does that sound affordable to? Liberals thats who. It allows me to pay alot in that they get to use for all the other people who can't or don't pay their own way. Translation? Purchased votes.

    Liberals spend every waking moment scheming ways to get access to others money. I'm sick of it.

  • Ralph West Jordan Taylorsville, UT
    April 27, 2014 6:56 p.m.

    " Real compromise comes from two totally different viewpoints coming together," truer words were never spoken! What party has voted 40 plus times to repeal the ACA instead of working to find a way to improve it, and save your breath if you are going to trot out the "they shuts us out" gag! Where was the compromise there? Who is it that carries the reputation of the "Party of No"? Who led the parade when the government went into shut down, could it have been your hero's Lee and Cruz, where was the compromise there?

    4000 tea partiers in Utah cheering Lee after hearing an hour of red meat rhetoric is like bragging about 4000 children cheering Donald Duck as he is throwing lollipops.

    Sorry my friend, when you say there is fear out there you are absolutely right. Unfortunately the fear is within the Republican party! The likes of Lee, Rand, Cruz and Love are using it to gut the Republican Party and as sure as happened in 08 and 12, the same will happen in 16 and 20. As one of the great ones said "A house divided cannot stand".

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 27, 2014 6:51 p.m.

    Hey Banderson -

    "I witnessed a rousing standing ovation for Mike Lee when he was announced . . . "

    That's eerily reminiscent of the Nuremberg Rallies of the 1930's.

    Fortunately most Americans are bright enough to learn from history, and certain events will not be repeated.

    The Tea Party will go down in history as just another bizarre Right Wing nationalist movement with a funny name . . . Like the No Nothings of the 19th century America.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 27, 2014 5:44 p.m.

    Ralph West Jordan: The progressives don't even understand that you can't find something good about an adulterous relationship! They keep wanting to say to those who believe it was wrong in the first place that we need to just compromise our standards so that everyone can feel comfortable about another affair! when the Democrats talk about compromise, they don't realize that there were many on the sidelines that knew something was amiss, but were hesitant to stand down against it for fear of being rejected or ridiculed. The fear is gone and they know it was the fear that has put our country on the verge of collapse. Mike Lee represents those without fear! The establishment Republicans are in trouble because it is they that have joined with the Democrats in ruining our country. The pretense was that they were joining with the Democrats in compromise, when in fact there was no compromise at all or any discussion about two different visions; it was one vision and it is obvious it not only was bad, it represented only the big government version. Real compromise comes from two totally different viewpoints coming together, not one viewpoint getting bigger!

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:58 p.m.

    For those of you who think that the Tea Party is a radical fringe element: As a delegate to the state Convention, I witnessed a rousing standing ovation for Mike Lee when he was announced, while Senator Hatch was met with dead silence and a sprinkling of boos. No, the Tea Party is alive and well and if Liberty means anything, it means not accepting Socialism and the Compulsion crowd! Mike Lee is not a dying fringe movement; He represents the Independent, conservative minded American, one that has finally, thank God, said "no" to both Republican and Democratic answers to Societal problems! The best thing about the Tea party is that no one knows who they are and where there leaders are!, something that is inimical to both Republican, Democratic, and the state run media machine! If you can't find them, how do you tear them down, discredit them, and maintain your power? Mia Love may be a Republican star or the real thing, but Mike Lee knows what he is doing and the 4,000 delegates responded in like manner! Utah should be leading the nation with more Mike Lees!!!!!

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:52 p.m.

    To the people that don't want "Obama Care" (the ACA):

    If you don't want it (and of course, that means you don't need it, right?) Then don't participate! But for those of us that had been denied or who had it taken from us, we are very grateful for it (and don't consider it "Socialism")and we are getting the healthcare we need now. In this free country, it is your right not to like it, but it is not your right to take it away from us! God Bless America!

  • idazut Riverton, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:42 p.m.

    Article says:

    "It’s time for the GOP to accept that the ACA is the law of the land"

    Not even Mr. Obama accepts that. He keeps changing the law, extendidng deadlines and waiving portions of it. If it is the "law of the land" then he is bound by his oath of office to enforce it exactly the way Congress wrote it.

  • CASteinman San Diego, CA
    April 27, 2014 4:36 p.m.

    Why is the Deseret News letting such a biased organization as Americans for Democratic Action speak for it? Does Deseret News not have its own editorial staff?

    And why should we just "accept" that the law is the law -- when everyone knows laws can be rescinded and the President is repeatedly breaking this law?

    Lots of fixes that people like can be put into place without the massive federal bureaucracy this brings and without IRS intervention in our medical health and welfare.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    I get a little tired of all the blame for the failure of Obamacare is due to "tea-party conservatives".

    Are Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Orrin Hatch all "tea party conservatives? I'm doubtful.

    Obamacare WILL be repealed for the variety of reasons that others have already pointed out.

    I just hope that in the long-run democrats learn that they CAN'T govern by one-man rule. Essentially the last 5 yrs. have been wasted!

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 27, 2014 3:50 p.m.

    Thid Baker –

    Force is evil?


    The force of public opinion evil too? . . . The force of public opinion turning in favor of the ACA and against regressive Republicans? I don’t think so.

    How about the force of good sense and reason that are allowing many to see just how ridiculous Right Wing Extremism really is? Is that evil too? NOPE.

    Let the force of Good prevail.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 27, 2014 3:34 p.m.

    "GOP should stop fighting Obamacare and work to improve it"

    Of course they should. But what are the chances of the GOP actually doing something right for a change?

    . . . Not good, I'm afraid.

    They're too caught up in the myths they keep inventing and reinventing . . . all the falsehoods they generate while trying to make their ridiculous ideology sound viable.

    I think, deep down, a lot of Republicans are not nearly as clueless as they seem to be.

    They know that ObamaCare is in fact good for the country, and they are extremely embarrassed that they refused to help design the ACA when they had a chance.

    And so they insist Obama can't work. They are stubbornly sticking to their story in spite of all evidence that shows their beliefs to completely false.

    What would make the Repubs admit their mistakes and their past silliness?

    That would take some real integrity.

  • Jack Aurora, CO
    April 27, 2014 3:18 p.m.

    Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha....oh,this is a great comedy sketch........

    what? this is supposed to be serious?

    You can't fix a train wreck with amendments. You have to clean up the mess, re-lay the track and start again. The US healthcare system needed to have that same approach, but the ACA was a fantastic overreach that will bankrupt the nation. You can't fix that with a few amendments. The Republican proposals haven't gotten past the Senate, where they refuse to even consider them. Must be nice when you can complain that there haven't been any attempts to fix it and then not allow any amendments. I think they call that being disingenuous..

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 27, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    If ObamaCare is so great, why does Obama make us "rich guys" (those who work hard enough to pay income tax) subsidize those who won't or can't work hard enough to pay income tax? There is a huge difference between requiring that insurance companies offer insurance to those with pre-existing conditions and requiring that you and I pay most of the premiums for those policies in addition to paying for our own policy. Let all government workers, including the President, be assigned doctors, hospitals and insurance policies. Let them pay the highest rate, because they are the highest paid people in government.

    Some liberals think that they have the right to force everyone else to do whatever it is that they think society needs. They want the minimum wage raised. Fine. Let them offer to give the bulk of their own paycheck to someone who earns less than then do. Let all workers in the White House, including the President, receive the same (low) wage. If they want to equalize things, start with the White House. Let them lead the way.

  • Ralph West Jordan Taylorsville, UT
    April 27, 2014 2:23 p.m.

    Bandersen 12:12PM Says it all. Read and re-read this post! It tells all who are real conservatives and anyone left of center just what the the Tea Group and extreme right think of those who are not totally in agreement with their agenda! I will say that the " the illiterate poor, the patronizing calculating Socialists, the historical ignorant crowd," didn't do to bad during the last two presidential elections. As a life long conservative I don't see change anytime soon.

  • McMurphy St George, Utah
    April 27, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    liberal larry is close to getting it. The first Republican response to Obamacare was to "repeal and replace." Then there was a long period, including all of the House votes, of just repeal. While there are numerous problems with Obamacare too many people are not interested in just going back to the pre-Obamacare days. Now that Republicans are actually talking about fixing the problems that Obamacare was supposed to address there may a possibility of correcting the technical problems in Obamacare. Straight repeal ain't gonna happen.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 27, 2014 12:30 p.m.

    This is also true of immigration, entitlement reform, education, land use, and who knows how many other things. We can come to broad compromises on all these things. It seems that we let a minority of people on both sides of the aisle bring compromise to a halt. We should all have learned by now that in a diverse country an "all or nothing" attitude usually gets you nothing.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 27, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    If it weren't for the fact that the illiterate, the illiterate poor, the patronizing calculating Socialists, the historical ignorant crowd, and lastly, and certainly not least, is the lead by compulsion crowd were voters I'd have more hope for its repeal. Only a miracle, and enough people returning to the Constitution and God, is there a chance. I will take that chance. I

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:58 a.m.

    I fail to see how a law passed without consulting Republicans, passed by backdoor deals, threats, and locked doors, without a SINGLE Republican vote, can be considered a good law. All this when the vast majority of Americans opposed it and, despite Obama's promise to give the public 5 days to view the bill and give feedback before signing it, he IGNORED them (because they said "no") and signed it asap! Then there's the "we have to pass it to find out what's in it!" line by Nancy Pelosi. And don't forget Obama couldn't get it passed with it being a tax (he called it a fine, not a tax), then couldn't get it considered constitutional with it being a fine (then he called it a tax, not a fine).

    Imagine if Bush had signed a major piece of legislation in which he locked Democrats out of the discussions, bribed Republicans who opposed the bill, and passed it without a single Democrat vote. I know Bush signed some unpopular laws, but at least they at least had SOME Democrat support!

    Do what's best for America. Repeal Obamacare.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    April 27, 2014 10:53 a.m.

    If ObamaCare is so great, why isn't President Obama going to get his health care from it?

    Oh sure, he signed up for the Bronze plan, but it was all symbolic. He knows that he and Congress are going to use the much better, taxpayer supported government plan for their health care.

    If ObamaCare is good enough for US, then why isn't it good enough for them?

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    "work to improve it" is a viable option given the limitation of the Republican Party. With Tea Party Republicans trying to squash the Reagan Republicans, the Republican will never come up with an alternative to the ACA.

    Without a unified alternative, a Republican Congressman may suggest something like "allow buying insurance across state lines". That is an improvement to the ACA, not a replacement. Its the best Republicans can do right now.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 27, 2014 10:48 a.m.

    "GOP should stop fighting Obamacare and work to improve it"

    Well, DUH!

    But that might require some actual THOUGHT. Something that is in short supply under the GOP's tiny tent.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    April 27, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    ObamaCare will fail because it is designed to fail.

    When that happens (and it will) the Federal government will step in and say, "See, we tried an insurance company, private sector, solution and it didn't work! We now need the Federal government to step in and take over health care in order to deal with this crisis."

    Liberals and Progressives do not want to have insurance companies at all. They want a single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system. A system, where THEY get to decide not only what level of care you get, but whether or not you get health care at all.

    "Over 70, too bad, we're not paying for that expensive procedure. Why don't you just die?"

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    April 27, 2014 10:06 a.m.

    I cannot express how reassuring it is to read how repubs still think that they can kill the ACA.

    Nothing screams 8 years of Hilary than seeing repubs still stuck 5 years into the past thinking that they can just obstruct things and make the ACA go away.

  • micki Sebastopol, CA
    April 27, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    The GOP in congress has tried over 30 times to repeal Obamacare, without really providing a viable alternative. Not only this but they have refused to approve a Jobs Bill, or Equal pay for Women, many of whom are hard working women, mothers trying to provide for their families. It seems there is a real change of heart needed, a re-organizing of priorities. Instead of only helping their wealthier supporters, maybe the GOP in congress needs to do the job that the PEOPLE who voted for them put them there to do, that is to improve the quality of life for ALL the people, not just the few massively wealthy lobbyists.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    Thank you DN for allowing the viewpoint in this article to be expressed in your newspaper.

  • Anonymous100 Anywhere, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    Obamacare was passed without a single Republican vote and only after backroom deals, bribes, lies and threats (from democrat leaders like Pelosi) to secure enough democrat votes to get it passed. This is not good law. It cannot be "fixed." Those who did not have healthcare still do not. Millions of Americans who had health insurance lost their coverage due to this bad law and were literally forced into Obamacare, against their will, and at a much higher cost than what they had before. The best thing to do is for DEMOCRATS to join with Republicans and scrap this monstrosity with the agreement that they will start over and work together to come up with something that is much, much better for America and Americans.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:44 a.m.

    Re: ". . . Obamacare actually represents [a] market-based approach . . . ."

    Yeah, that's why it has a totalitarian, forced participation component. One that relies for enforcement on the heavy heel of government, pressed against the neck of anyone with the audacity to believe he has the ability to reject participation.

    Market-based? "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:17 a.m.

    The underlying premise of the article, that cooperation is better than obstructionism for it's own sake, is sound. The ACA can be improved if we work together on it.

  • idazut Riverton, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:12 a.m.

    The ACA, with an assist from the Supreme Court, sets a precedent that gives the federal government the power to force us to buy anything the federal government decides that we should have. It doesn't matter whether the enforcement mechanism is called a penalty or a tax it still gives the federal government a dangerous power not found anywhere in the Constitution. This is the primary reason that the law must be repealed but there are others. Inhibiting job growth, trapping people in part time jobs woking less than 30 hours per week and failure to proveide health care to the 30 million uninsured that were the primary reason for the law are some other major reasons.

    We now have three major health care programs with the potential to bankrupt the country and we still have not solved the problem of providing health care to the uninsured. It's time to scrap all three and start over with something that actually works.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    April 27, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    Where does the author get off with this diatribe knocking GOP opposition to the ACA? There is absolutely nothing remotely affordable about the ACA. Plus, Americans have been lied to from the get-go. Enough with the attack on GOP. They have only stopped working toward compromise because the ACA fiasco is totally unfixable. Obama has become so laughable with his changes, exceptions, delays, and extensions it is appalling. This White House is rife with incompetence, and is totally lacking in leadership. Governing via executive order is a huge cop out and is evidence of the blatant arrogance of the egotist in the oval office: completely un-willing and incapable of bringing both sides together.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    April 27, 2014 8:55 a.m.

    The ACA has issues that ought to be dealt with, but it is silly in the extreme to believe that the current system of health care will change in a meaningful way. It is also silly to constantly bring up this "government controlled" nonsense. 70-80% of people get their health care coverage from their employer. I don't hear anyone complaining about a lack of choice of carriers or employer controlled health care choices made for you without your consent. Or that you stand of chance of losing your preferred health care network when you change jobs, if the insurance for your new employer does not recognize your doctor/hospital/treatments in their provider network.

    No one complains too much about the "socialist" Medicare system we have for the elderly. And no one advocates for ridding us of the Medicaid programs all states have. (We only argue about how poor you have to be to qualify.)

    The main complaint about ACA is really that that awful Obama is the President who signed the bill.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    It is a success and may not be a smart move to take away insurance policies for people who have it for the first time. But that has not stopped the GOP to use this as the only issue. Maybe one more election loss will get rid of the radical tea party elements.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:27 a.m.

    In the past, whenever large and complex bills were passed by congress they would go back a couple of years later and pass what is called a "technical adjustments bill". Large and complex bills are always found to have phrasing that is confusing or contradictory, as well as minor details that were overlooked in the original drafting.. These bills cleaned up these flaws and made the programs work better. With the ACA this process has been impossible, because any attempt at even minor changes would have been used by the Republicans to kill the law or poison it.

    It could be made better, but not by the current congress.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    Republicans might wake up and realize that Obamacare actually represents the market-based approach that conservatives came up with as a response to Hillary Clinton's single payer model.

    They should, but if history is a guide, they'll be too busy trying to out-do each other in trying to establish who is more anti-Obama and anything he stands for, in the process paving the way for a single payer solution.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:16 a.m.

    Well said.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:00 a.m.

    Re: "Now is the time for the congressional GOP to . . . get to the business of making sure the Affordable Care Act works for everyone."

    Well, at least liberals are finally admitting that Obamacare is an unworkable, unmitigated disaster, needing enormous assistance, just to stay afloat.

    But, their suggestion that the real people most adversely affected by it are somehow obligated to ride to their rescue and salvage something good from it is just rubbing salt into the gaping wound they created.

    There is no rescuing Obamacare. Liberals designed it to collapse, and it is living out the full measure of its creation -- collapsing on itself, in the process bringing down the best, most efficient, effective, and compassionate health-care delivery system ever established.

    Now is certainly not the time for congressional RINOs to assume their accustomed capitulatory pose. Rather, they should salvage the best of the wonderful healthcare system we had before liberals undertook to "fix" it.

    In other words, what Congress should now do is act to fulfill Obama's cynical, disingenuous promise that, if we liked what we had, we could keep it.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    April 27, 2014 7:58 a.m.

    It is becoming obvious that the maniacal efforts by conservatives to undermine, and demonize the Affordable Healthcare Act are starting to wear thin. Largely due to the slow roll out, and hundreds of millions of dollars spent by conservative donors like the Koch Brothers, the ACA has had to overcome a huge PR disadvantage, but things are starting to change.

    A poll by the Upshot/Kaiser shows that even in rabidly anti-Obama South, the majority of respondents would like to improve the ACA, and NOT REPEAL it! In fact some of the Southerners interviewed in a New York Times article, said they are tired of all the yammering to "repeal Obamacare".

    The tide of public opinion is slowly starting to turn, the ACA is here to stay.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    April 27, 2014 7:45 a.m.

    Obamacare is fundamentally morally flawed because the entire law is based on an evil principle; force. It forces some people to work for that which they will not receive so others may receive what they did not work for. We used to call that slavery but now we call it Obamacare. Shall we work to "fix" slavery or should we abandon slavery? Obamacare is not about healthcare at all, its about power and control: Who controls you? If we keep Obamacare the answer to that question is, not YOU!

  • Lets check the facts Santa Fe, NM
    April 27, 2014 7:41 a.m.

    Wrong! Getting the government out of our lives would be the only improvement. There is certainly a place for the government to help with the truely needy. But having the government controlling every aspect of our lives is NOT the way to do that.

  • md Cache, UT
    April 27, 2014 7:36 a.m.

    If I am forced to buy a ship made with duct tape and concrete, which will never float, I don't think adding a few layers of duct tape will fix it. Time to scrap it and find an answer that is somewhere between the extremes of socialism and right-wing fanaticism. How about a compromise for legislation that works for BOTH sides. Not a 2500 page mess that none of the lawmakers read before passing it. Look at our economy. Look at the fact that 50% of those who signed up for this "reform" haven't paid for their premiums. This is not sustainable. Middle class Americans hurt the most from this debacle. Scrap it and elect legislators and a President who will work together to solve the problems that this country faces.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    April 27, 2014 7:34 a.m.

    Many many good points. There is no going back to pre ACA. Lets work together and make it work, not endlessly trying to tear it down out of political spite.
    Reform should be based on sound principles. I don't care if good ideas come from Democrats or Republicans, lets use what is effective and abandon the rest. Good government should be effective, fair, as simple as possible and not pick winners or losers. It also needs also help the most destitute and those unable to help themselves.
    Whether you buy insurance in the individual market, through your employer, or small business, or if you are a member of a union there should be no special tax benefits, coverage protections etc that all the others can't enjoy.
    Lets face it, a lot of the ACA is based on Republican ideas only implemented by a democrat. It mirrors Romneycare with a marketplace and with subsidies for the needy.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 27, 2014 7:33 a.m.

    The people of this country don't want Obamacare and have never supported it. It was passed over the heads of the American people by use of dirty tricks and shoddy parliamentary maneuvers. There's no reason why Republicans should stop trying to get rid of something the people don't want.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 7:25 a.m.

    I'd say the best way to improve Obamacare, for both the Democrats and Republicans, is to remove it.

    Replace it with a truly free enterprise system that would reward cost saving by returning cost responsibility to the customer. Make sure the users of healthcare are the payers of healthcare and made aware of the actual costs, with a system that allows worthwhile comparisons of the product (medicines, hospitals, doctors, etc.) so that there is a means by which the HUGE consumer advantages of competition are part of the cost cutting equation.

    Like every other instance where government is inserted into the process the net result will be inefficiency, waste, corruption, incompetence, ineffectiveness AND, as a consequence of all those deleterious factors, **higher costs**.

    We can do much better than Obamacare. But, all improvements over it should start with its removal.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 27, 2014 6:35 a.m.

    Let's just nurture the better part of an adulterous relationship, rather than admitting it was wrong in the first place! You either believe Socialism is good and pursue it or you admit it is worse than bad policy and fight to get rid of it! The sweet and honey dripping words can't fool some of us!

  • JMH Provo, UT
    April 27, 2014 5:51 a.m.

    Mr. Rice is a bit disingenuous in his comments. He knows that if the Democrats in Congress were to open ACA for amendments it would not look like it is today. The improvements that he speaks of are not the ones that might appear and then they would be force to stall them in the Senate or have the President veto them. This bill was passed on a strictly partisan vote and that is never a good thing, no matter the party. But to no suggest that Republicans should just roll over and allow the changes the Democrats want is simply ludicrous.

    If he was truly interested in making improvements he would urge the President and the Senate to fully open the bill with a series of hearings and up or down votes on changes with assurance that the President will accept them. That is not going to happen and he knows it.

  • Swartzy Arlington, TX
    April 27, 2014 5:39 a.m.

    I do not support the ACA. I want health care for all those who do not have it, but I feel this program, the ACA is unsustainable in how it is set up. It also give the GOVT too much power and say in how our health care is handled right down to our visit in our Doctor's office. I have many Doctors, nurses and other health care providers in my family and not a single one of them supports the limitations of the ACA. it is only affordable for the people who are getting GOVT assistance with the insurance. How is that affordable for all of us who have to pay full price? It is not, there is no FREE in the program, we all have to pay for it. It will implode. We could have put up free clinics all across the USA for a fraction of what this program is costing. I do not agree with the author of this article, I see it so much differently. I am hoping we can dismantle this program and then put forth one that really works and is sustainable. But I will never support this one, NEVER.