Utah's model for 'smart growth' and containing sprawl

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  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    April 28, 2014 9:26 p.m.


    You're right, if we had the population of Seattle our air would be just plain toxic. So as we head to the population Seattle has now, we might want to do something as we face these geographic realities. Of course, we don't need our population numbers to be like Seattle to be that bad, so again maybe we might want to get ahead of the curve.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 28, 2014 8:24 a.m.

    Re: "Bamberger was one of the greatest transportation enterprises of the west. It was electric, with acceleration even faster than TRAX. All of it was lost!"

    And, for good reason. It did not meet the needs of the real people it pretended to serve. So, it required insane amounts of subsidy to stay in business.

    Exactly the same as TRAX and all the other UDOT collective transportation initiatives.

    Why do politicians believe we're stupid?

  • IndeMak South Jordan, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:19 p.m.

    seattle, WA
    If Utah is doing such a great job of managing growth, how come the air is unfit to breathe?

    Utah has had bad air since cars and fire places were created. The entire Wasatch front is built in valleys. Pollution is heavier than air so it takes wind to push it out. Imagine Seattle in a valley. The pollution would be much worse than it is in Utah.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:20 p.m.

    I am the only one disturbed by this:
    "One, by a population-reduction group known as NumbersUSA Education and Research Foundation..."

    Population-reduction Group?

  • K.Call Moab, UT
    April 27, 2014 6:23 p.m.

    Envision Utah is listed as a regionally based initiative in "Profiles of Regional Initiatives in the West", appendix 2. Regional initiatives might be defined as "experiments in regionalism...that encompass more than one established jurisdiction, such as a county or national forest boundary". Some plans are "citizen-driven" and some are "government-driven". From T. David Horton, Legal Counsel for the National Committee to Restore the Constitution: "The grouping of the states of the United States into regions for the purpose of exercising governmental powers ~ multi-state regionalism ~ and the intimidation of the legislature of each state to divide the state into regions for the purpose of exercising governmental powers ~ sub-state regionalism ~ constructs a system of government by appointed bureaucrats that by-passes and undermines the lawful government of each state by it's elected state and local officeholders.....it is sedition. The avowed purpose of regional government is to exercise governmental powers.....it is sometimes represented (as) just planners.....regionalizers....an advisory plan."

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    I couldn't tell if there was actually a "model." I must have missed something.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    Procuradorfiscal hit it on the head. I agree that unknown "others who have" want to "manage" (read control) other people to their own self-interest. We are breeding a self-important privilege-for-me class who want to ration quality of life for and to others.

    In all of the discussion, maybe we should consider how local municipalities zone out small lot development in favor of large house, large lot development to increase tax base income per unit and lessen services as large lots usually have smaller families and consume less utilities and services.

    I do recognize the need for information to be available to people on various issues that deal with our changing life styles and options. But really people, who are these self-appointed committees, councils, boards and such? Maybe we should list names, occupations and funding sources for openers.

    I am for individual home ownership, a family's castle if you will, without all the nit picking controls that hinder the freedom of the individual to own and do what he wants to do with his property.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    April 27, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    Do these projections encompass the open-borders mindset of the Utah Compact? This is important because projected growth of Utah would be directly impacted by a more porous border. Likewise, projections for housing (as well as social issues, such as crime) would also be directly affected.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    April 27, 2014 1:55 p.m.

    Where are some of these editors getting their information from?

    A few weeks ago? The legislature and making great strides in improving education.


    A few days ago? Congratulating the legislature for improvements in air quality?

    Huh?? What was actually done?

    Now? We are congratulating our state for having foresight to avoid urban sprawl.

    Huh??? We are the least regulated state in the nation and it shows. Ivory jokes are junk and falling apart, people are being ripped off, traffic and congestion is worse than Southern California, gas prices continually lead the nation, a public transit system that is worthless, and disgusting air quality for 8 months of the year.

    Currently, many towns have grown so fast that they have run out of water (ex Lehi).

    Foresight in planning? We have none

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    Let's look at Davis County to see if we can avoid similar mistakes in the future. Say we're still in 1952. What do we see? We see a population concentrated along the late great Bamberger Electric Railroad. I'm now one of the few who remember it. Bamberger was one of the greatest transportation enterprises of the west. It was electric, with acceleration even faster than TRAX. All of it was lost! What if UDOT had placed Bamberger with its electrification under maintenance pending the day of its renewal? We didn't have the necessary foresight then, so lets try to make sure we keep all of the newly built rail corridors no matter what!

    Also in the 1950's we didn't have the urban sprawl up the mountainside, like in North Salt Lake today. Through the years the developer puppet city governments have allowed this insane growth, on grades so steep that no public transit vehicle will ever enter (except rack and cog railway lol). At the very least we need to stop this kind of development which locks out mass transit and destroys animal habitat. Let's quit making these mistakes.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    "Utah’s economy and population are growing — and that’s a good thing. " Really?

    Growth has its price. When I was a kid in the 50's my dad and I hiked and fished the Davis County each bench. It's hard to imagine now, but the Davis bench in those days was wilderness. I didn't realize it, but an era was passing away. I'm glad I saw it.

    Now Davis County is mostly one sprawling, gas guzzling, nerve shattering pit. Davis County used to be a great place to live, with an interesting balance between urban and wilderness. Gone forever.

  • Goldminer Salem, ut
    April 27, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    Well, I don't know where these "experts" are looking but I can tell you that in South Utah County the amount of farming and grazing land has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY in the last 20 years and is dropping even more! People may think that food only comes from the store but, surprisingly, it comes from farms and ranches and they NEED land and water!!!

    I suggest that if there is a vacant building in a town or city, that has to be used BEFORE a new one is allowed to be built. Similarly for homes. Both of these can be remodeled and it will save a lot of space. Drive through down town Salt Lake City and see all the vacant buildings; redo them and sell them.

    Lastly, water is crucial. Stop the NSA from using over one million gallons of water daily in their new facility! That is crazy!

    I know, the "experts" will totally disagree and say I don't know what I am talking about and they are certainly worried about their pocket book being impacted I suspect!

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    The key to controlling sprawl, since developers want as much sprawl as they can sell, is low priced rail public transit, as population tends to concentrate along such corridors.

    TRAX is working well. Its success has been an unexpected treat. However, Frontrunner needs to open up a lot more interfaces along its route. Too many urban concentrations are being left out of the Frontrunner picture. A good example of this is North Salt Lake.

    Steps must be taken to make Frontrunner equipment accelerate faster so as to be able to handle at least double the current number of stops. Does that mean electrification? Maybe. But I recall the days of the Southern Pacific "commutes" along the San Francisco peninsula. They used early generation diesels, but had lightning acceleration! Let's get a fix to Frontrunner. Time's a wasting.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    April 27, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    If Utah is doing such a great job of managing growth, how come the air is unfit to breathe?

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    The developers created a mess at Cottonwood Mall and other locations.IF they still had pre 2008 free money they would be doing the same. All transit needs to be pollution free in ten years.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    Re: ". . . many of Utah’s leading minds have been planning and preparing for this future through the Envision Utah process."

    Envision Utah's ideas are far from smart. They amount to nothing more than callow envy of the crowded, unsustainable, unfulfilling euro-socialist shared-misery model.

    Fact is, Utah -- along with the entire intermountain West, and even large areas in the Midwest, and on the Gulf, East, and West Coasts -- is nearly empty.

    There is plenty of room to expand, and in an era of increasingly decentralized production of nearly everything from manufactured goods to foodstuffs to energy, Utah is well positioned to lead the way into a better future for real people.

    Envision Utah, and those of its ilk, however, are planning a return to forced medieval population concentrations that can benefit only those of the new liberal "nobility," intent on keeping us closely penned and heavily dependent on their largesse, and away from the new "king's forests" of prime federal lands.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 27, 2014 12:34 a.m.

    Nothing has been done to "regulate" developers for the last 50 years.

    If Nothing is changes now --
    50 years from now ALL of the Salt Lake Valley will look like Beck Street.

    We need to look at other countries and recycle.
    And Real Estate is like garbage...

    We can either used it throw it away,
    or recycled and reused it.