Why do rich people always want to spend the money of poor citizens to pay for
I think the LDS Church is totally wrong about this subject. These illegal
immigrants are using the system and there children are putting tremendous
pressure on all our institutions. They should be deported and have to come to
the U.S. by legal means. Illegal immigrants are stealing from our children and
tax dollars. They get free education, free health care, and no doubt many of
them getting welfare resources. It is time for American's to stand up
against this invasion.
DowntownzIf what you are saying is true then that is all the more
reason to draw the line at the law. If people who grew up having no idea they
were here illegally were required to return -- with the parents who brought them
here (remember them?) -- to their lawful countries of residence, then word would
spread and other parents would think twice about illegally trafficking their
children across international lines. On the other hand, if we allow
such children to stay and also say, "we must not deport the parents either
since this would break up the family," then guess what happens? Countless
parents then take advantage of this "exception" by -- you guessed it --
illegally trafficking their children into this country, who then effectively
function as back-door tickets to the USA for these families. But it
is far more likely that most of these children ARE brought up to know that they
are here illegally and are briefed in how to live "in the shadows" so as
to not draw attention to their families' illegal residency status.Immigration law enforcement does not "break up families." People
break up their own families by willfully choosing to flout the law.
@Chris B & Richard BI imagine the laws of heaven will be just.
Our immigration laws are not always so. Heaven would not deport you for having
checked a box, saying you are a citizen, on an application for employment, when
in fact your parents never told you that you weren't a citizen, and you had
no reason to suspect that you weren't: you grew up here, speak only
English, went to school with all your friends, played on the high school sports
team, and then tried to get a job after you graduated from high school. YES,
this happens all the time. There are many intricacies of immigration law that
are cold and harsh and completely inhumane. If you disagree, just do a little
research into the ACTUAL LAW.
To: Richard B - what you said was absolutely right...thank you
I support the prophet on this one. I believe by supporting him I am following
God's will. I happen to agree with the Utah compact. If any of you think
most of these "illegal immigrants" are vile criminals, you are naive and
need to get out a little more. Sure, we hear about the very few bad ones every
day, but we don't read about those who are doing so much of the work that
makes our lives better. We celebrate baseball players who defect and receive
deferential treatment upon entering illegally (all arranged with their potential
millions of dollars), and we want to send back those who brave dangerous paths
to get here to make a modest living. We could easily have "rule
of law" if we passed reasonable laws. Our immigration laws are horribly
broken and ineffective.
To "NeilT" how is illegal immigration not a criminal problem? You do
realize that when many of those illegal immigrants get jobs that they are often
using stolen identities, including Social Security numbers? They can destroy
the credit of your child before you child is in Elementary school.Also, if you look at the crime rate of the children of illegal immigrants, it
is higher than for the nation as a whole.In addition to being both
an economic problem and a criminal problem, it is a security problem. If you
search the internet there are news articles about the border patrol finding
known terrorists trying to get into the US. Do you want more bombings in the
Illegal immigration is an economic problem, not a criminal problem. The far
right want to use immigration policy as a way to keep Hispanics from coming to
America. They are terrified of amnesty because amnesty leads to citizenship
which lead to voting rights. It is all political. I wonder how many who
are opposed to immigration reform would do the exact the same thing if they
lived in an impoverished third world country. It easy to say just come legally.
What if your country is controlled by drug cartels and remaining could be a
life or death decision. Would you be willing to wait five years for a visa.
And what about cost. How many impoverished families can afford the immigration
fees. My wife immigrated from Russia. Total cost twenty five thousand dollars
without the services of an immigration attorney.
delasalle 6:42 p.m. April 15, 2014 stole my thunder. I wonder how many of those
who are routinely shrill on immigration are cheering Clive Bundy?I'm at a loss as to how anyone can presume to understand LDS doctrine
better than the First Presidency and advocate an unnecessarily harsh position on
immigration based on the 12th AOF or some other scripture. I'm pretty sure
Pres Uchtdorf is familiar with the 12 AOF. The laws can be changed
to show compassion for those who made decisions many of us might have made under
the same circumstances. Deport the bad apples but provide a way for decent
members of the community to square themselves with the law.
I'd personally be very careful about trusting Obama to enforce our actual
borders . . . or to allow you to keep your health plan, or allow you to keep
your doctor, or have you save $2,500/year on your premiums, or have a
transparent administration, or bring those Benghazi attackers to justice, or
ensure that the IRS doesn't attack conservative groups, or not write rubber
checks and run up the deficit like the previous administration, or etc, etc,
etc, etc, etc. I'd be very careful about saying I'd agree with or
align with him on ANYTHING of any substance.
@ XertNot sure where God puts people into line when going into heaven but
do know that having a fact based discussion with many posters on this blog is a
useless endevor. Anything that will happen on immigration reform will be the
result of political strength as the issue has been hijacked by the right wing
radicals of the GOP. We've seen the Mike Lee's and Ted Cruz's
destroy their own party and they would do the same for the country if given the
chance. Much work is being done to improve the party in 2016 so we can get back
to governing instead of groaning.
Having served a Spanish mission in California, we didn't deny baptism for
converts who were here illegally. We are talking about imaginary lines that
divide us as countries which exist now, but won't when Christ comes again
on the earth. Remember we are all brothers and sisters and children of God no
matter what country we were born in. I love the church's stance on this
issue to resolve the matter with peace and love as the Savior would. We need to
pass immigration laws which will bring us together and not divide us more as a
Since our president cherry picks which laws he will enforce, it is silly to give
him more laws to pick from. If we pass a comprehensive law, he will throw out
what he doesn't like and use the parts he does to again do what he wants,
not what the American People want. I say wait until next year when things are
different and we have a Senate that will stand up to the President when he is
It is so easy for me as a latter day saint to see the correct way to apply the 3
points that the church emphasizes:1. Send all immigration law
breakers home to get in line and come legally2. Make sure they take
their families with them3. Do one and two above in a spirit of love
and kindness. A genuine, Christ like love isn't permissive (see jefferey R
Holland April 2014 Conference address).
@Allbalck You make a good point about economic studies and
immigration,all most all serious studies do support immigration reform with
freer entry. That is why 110+ conservative economists signed an open letter to
to Congress supporting it. I tried and failed to include the link@ObjectifiedI agree that remittances to Mexico are a small drain
to the U.S. economy. They totaled $10.7 billion in 2013. Remittances from a
worker to Mexico tend to end when the person gains citizenship. I
disagree with your economic analysis about the impact of immigration on labor
markets. Labor market are weak, but the recession was caused by a housing
bubble fueled by federal programs encouraging home ownership and aggressive
practices of banks too big to fail. Like any other worker, undocumented workers
earn jobs. Their presence in labor markets would lower wages if all other
variable are held constant but they are not. They buy goods and services which
benefits owners and workers. In part, the open letter I cite readsImmigration reform is an opportunity...to improve the long-term prospects for
economic growth, enhance the skills of the U.S. labor force, and augment the
flexibility of the Nation’s labor market.
To Richard and Chris B. Is god going to allow the judgmental, and self righteous
into heavens? I have a feeling he's going to put them somewhere in line
behind those who go to disparate measures to feed their starving kids. Just a
thought, but one the both of you might want to mull over before you continue to
posit our fathers positions.
The Duece:The document was written to not be clear. I had the same
problem when I read it. The church was brutalized due to its standing Prop 8 and
they do not want another such attack via illegal immigration so the dodge the
issue without a clear statement of their position.
I took the opportunity to review the document referred to in this article that
the LDS Church supports. I still do not understand the position that the LDS
Church has regarding illegal immigration. The document in question is a list of
well intentioned thoughts but does not address the key issues of this problem. I
still cannot understand what their position is regarding illegal immigration.
First, I am not a member of the LDS Church. Second, this topic is of concern to
all of us in this nation. Yes, Congress needs to act and not keep kicking the
can down the street. We are a nation of laws and order. I am not sure of the
requirements of LDS members to enter their temples, however, if you are not
honest in your dealings with others I can't see how you would be able to go
into a temple. The LDS Church may as well open the doors for everyone at that
point. It is hard to try and differentiate between breaking one law and breaking
another law as to which one is important. Once a law is broken, everything after
that is still based on breaking the law. Let's first get our house in order
so that we may make it possible to invite others here who want to come.
@SNPTR "Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws
of God hath no need to break the laws of the land."That would
come as a surprise to women who become pregnant in China and find themselves in
violation of the one-child policy. It would certainly have surprised Anne
Frank's family during World War II, although I suppose a person who ratted
on the Franks might feel like he had obeyed the laws of the land. I wonder how
it would apply to the treatment of certain racial and religious minorities not
only today but throughout history or how it might apply to certain
"lawful" orders pertaining to treatment of prisoners.It is
an optimistic but incorrect teaching.
Some members of the Church out west, having been so thoroughly indoctrinated by
right-wing politics that it has blinded them to the true principles at the heart
of the Gospel, may not like the Church’s stance on this issue, but frankly
that’s just too bad. The stance is nevertheless the morally, politically,
and theologically correct one, and I am grateful to belong to a Church that does
not allow secular, worldly politics and a desire to win the praise of the world
get in the way of championing the cause of the poor and oppressed, as any truly
Christian organization ought to. The one Southern Baptist representative quoted
in this article, unsurprisingly, does not seem to understand the correct purpose
of comprehensive immigration reform…but the majority of the forces
involved in this debate do understand it, and eventually (even if it does not
happen until after 2016), the long overdue change that we need will come to
Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath
no need to break the laws of the land. Doctrine and Covenants 58:21
March 30, 2011 The Examiner"The idea of the Utah Compact actually
originated with us here at the Chamber", Rigg claimed. Rigg also explained
that "the compact...we tried to make sure that it was something that was
characterized as something that came from broader community and not from the
Chamber...so if you look..I can tell this group that...if you look online or
look anywhere, you're not going to find the Chamber's fingerprints on
it".----------------------------I had to check this out to see
if it was true, and it is. I'm surprised someone from the LDS church still
endorses this. Ignoring the id theft, social security fraud and
perjury (all felonies) does not make them go away. The jobs being
taken now, construction, service, hospitality etc. are jobs that can't be
exported. They are jobs needed by Americans.
@ Wacoan:The percentage of illegal aliens here in the United States
who are picking food crops is miniscule compared to the overall numbers.
It's the other jobs that illegals are doing that many unemployed American
would do and want to do that is causing the biggest problems. It
also is a hindrance on our economy that many illegals send part of their wages
back to Mexico rather than spending that money here to recirculate and help our
economy. Sending money out of the country that was earned here actually helps
Mexico's economy while hurting ours. That's the primary reason the
president of Mexico and other Mexican leaders are pushing for amnesty and open
borders, and/or trying to make illegal immigration more acceptable to the
American public. We are having a hard time getting our economy out
of a rut and getting our unemployment numbers to drop significantly. Harboring
illegal workers who steal American jobs by working for less pay is hurting the
situation, not helping. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand
basic macro economic principles and why not adhering to them always creates
problems. And yet here we go again...
@ DrGroovey:First of all, this isn't a matter of needing to
choose one law over the other. But even if it was, by choosing to follow civil
laws of our land, we are actually helping to show love toward our neighbors who
happen to be unemployed because of others here illegally taking needed jobs. Following your suggested approach of not having any country borders thus
allowing anyone in the world to come here unimpeded would result in a condition
of anarchy and soon dilute America into a third wold country. There are valid
reasons that literally every nation in the world maintains borders. It's
extremely short-sighted not be able to see and understand that. Once
all the problems of mankind are overcome and God rules over the entire earth,
then it will make sense to do away with our borders. But that time is not yet,
nor even close. As such, sensible laws, including with immigration, are needed
more than ever before. And they need to be taken seriously and followed...
something that hasn't been happening very well regarding illegal
immigration. That's why this situation keep happening with each new
@RRB and Steve C. WarrenNo, illegally entering the United States is
generally done for a more pure motive than speeding, increasing the economic
welfare of a family and, as RRB nicely points out, carries a larger penalty.
Although I haven't seen a comparison, I would bet that more property damage
and death to third parties occurs because of speeding than illegal entry. I could have gone on about illegal actions taken by honest, and I mean
honest, U.S. citizens. Do we help our children fill out tax returns on income
earned mowing lawns or babysitting? Do we follow all gun registration laws? Do
we talk on cell phones while driving? Well, I am not sure about Utah laws.
It's legal in Texas and it drives me crazy to wait behind someone
completing a text message. I too am appreciative of workers, here
illegally or otherwise, who pick crops to keep the cost of food low.
@ Esquire:Since you are obviously an Obama liberal, you haven't
taken the time or effort to determine what Mike Lee is actually advocating. He
is sensibly asking that border control be a first step before moving on to other
immigration issues. That's akin to putting out the largest fire before
worrying about the smaller ones. Since a lack of border control is the
root cause of this problem, that needs to be dealt with as a high priority. Once
we prove that that can be done, then we'll deal with the already here
law-breakers. When Reagan was in office, this exact same situation
existed. Democrats said if we allowed amnesty to the then illegals, it would be
the absolute last time. More border control was also promised. But since that
level of hoped for border control never happened, here we are a generation later
back in the exact same boat, proposing the exact same empty solutions. Anyone old enough to remember the conditions and promises made in previous
illegal alien amnesties have good reason not to trust the same lame promises
attached to this proposal. More law enforcement is our biggest need.
Which law or commandment is most important:1) to love your neighbor
as yourself, or2) Sustain a man-made arbitrary law about who can
cross an imaginary line drawn on a map.It seems that most people
today vote for #2.
The Church has been very outspoken in its support for open borders and amnesty.
There has been no dissenting voice in any of its media. I understand
the Church's desire to win over the Latin American people, just as I
understand Obama's (U.S. Latinos are overwhelmingly Democratic). I
understand the desire of business leaders who appreciate the cheap labor. They
all have their self interests.But that doesn't mean that I need
to agree with any of them.To me, the most important issue is the
rule of law. Without it, we have anarchy. And rewarding people for breaking the
law will only encourage others to do the same. We will be dealing with this same
issue for decades to come until the borders are secured. Should the
Church deny temple blessings to anyone who sneaks into a temple through the back
door? Where’s the compassion? Let's be honest. If the 10
to 15 million people who are here illegally were devout atheists, sternly
conservative (with a 90% likelihood of voting Republican), and demanded high
pay, there would be no call for amnesty, compassion, or keeping families
together. And this meeting would not have happened.
I think most everybody is getting all wrapped up in the religion/politics of the
situation. I don't think many took the time to think about what was said.
Elder Uchtdorf said "The president mentioned in our conversation in the Oval
Office he would not use executive orders through the summer because he hopes
Congress can find a solution.."In other words Obama told this
group of faith leaders that he is going to circumvent the law to impose his will
on the nation. He is telling us that he is going to do something against the
constitution if Congress doesn't do what he wants.Shouldn't we be more concerned about an out of control President of the
US before we worry about the reason behind Obama talking to a group of faith
"Chris BSalt Lake City, UT"Should we change the law so bank
robbers who have robbed banks can keep the money they've stolen?"Off course not. But immigration reform certainly isn't
about felonies like bank robbing,stolen money or similar. Breaking basic
immigration laws today is akin to speeding or other minor traffic offenses,
which are subject to review and changes from time to time. Its the consequences
of all the other laws that are the problem making good decent hard working
people guilty of various frauds. Pres Utchdorf -or the church- are
only asking that a more common sense law is passed so that families aren't
split up as easily as they are today in some states, some because this
doesn't happen as much in CA or NJ. iAnd remember that all
studies, that's all serious studies, show that immigration ultimately helps
both the economy and society at large, as it has done with Utah with all those
european mormons who now inhabit the ute lands.
Good to see that the involvement of organized religion in political matters is
acceptable so long as it hews to the politically correct side of the matter. If
these churches were to take contrary stands on other "political"
issues--say, traditional marriage, gambling, abortion, contraceptives,
etc.--they would never have a seat at the table and would instead hear the calls
for IRS investigations and revocation of their tax-exempt status.
As long as Democrats continue to renege on promises they made in the past to
secure the border and enforce employee verification, the immigration impasse
will continue. As far as compromise goes, remember the old saw, "You
can't make a good deal with a bad politician."
@LDS Liberal - "And once again, We see from comments that some Utah
Mormon conservatives will put politics AHEAD of the Prophets."I
definitely agree with you that it's hypocritical...similar to members who
denounced the Church for its stance on Prop 8, or who disregarded its request
for protesters to stay on the other side of street during the Priesthood Session
of Conference. Often too much politics and too little faith on both sides.
@RRBYes, it's up to the bishop to decide what positions illegals are
called to, and our general church leaders know and approve of the fact that
bishops are calling them.I'm also pleased that members of the
business community who need low-income workers are willing to hire immigrants
who are trying to provide for their families. I worked six weeks picking apples
in Yakima, Washington, and I was one of the very few U.S.-born people working in
the orchards. I believe many of the others weren't here legally, but then
the orchard owners didn't bother to ask--they simply needed good,
hard-working people. These illegals didn't "move to the front of the
line"; they were simply doing work that local residents didn't want to
@Steve C. WarrenIt's up to the Bishop what leadership roles they are
allowed to hold. It's not the same as a speeding ticket. Unlawful entry into the United States is up to six months in jail plus a fine,
followed by deportation. Visa overstayers are subject to two years in jail.
People who were previously deported have even stiffer penalties because they
aren’t supposed to come back for at least ten years. Using someone
else’s ID to obtain a job is another violation. I-9 document fraud carries
a penalty up to $3,200 per document. Using fake ID to obtain a car loan, a cell
phone, a home…makes you subject to ID theft laws. Falsifying or fraudulent
use of a Green Card is a federal offense, as is a false claim of US Citizenship.
Using that fake ID when stopped by police constitutes obstruction of justice.
Accepting your pay in cash without the required reporting and deductions
constitutes tax evasion. Failure to file a tax return, or to file one under a
false name are serious federal offenses.Why should they move to the
front of the line over people who follow the laws?
I very much appreciate the fact that many Latter-day Saints who are here
illegally also hold positions in their wards and are allowed to take the
sacrament, no questions asked. It shows that sensible Church leaders view the
efforts of immigrants to provide for their families as commendable. "If any
provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath
denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." (1 Tim. 5:8)
One other thing. To the anti-immigrant folks who talk about obeying the law of
the land, I say two things. First, the law of the land can be changed and that
is what this is all about. Problem solved. Easy, right? Second, are you
fastidious about obeying and sustaining the law when it comes to implementing
the ACA (aka Obamacare), or are your principles situational, depending on the
law and the issue? I think it's a fair question.
Mike Lee, incremental reform is just another way of saying, "Let's not
do much, if anything." The problem has been festering for too long, and the
GOP approach is to do nothing. You and your party refuse to govern. In the
end, the Church is far more correct than you, Senator, and certainly more so
than the Republican Party.On another note, President Uchtdorf said
"The president was warm and kind. In many ways, we don't always agree
with this administration, for instance on marriage and other issues. I
understand the marriage issue. But President Obama and his Administration has
hardly been leading the charge on the issue. But what are the other issues? I
think if you are going to put the idea out there, we deserve to know. How many
of the issues are truly religious issues (institutional vs./and moral) and how
many are merely political stances? As a member of the Church, I think we should
I trust Elder Uchtdorf. When he says that we can apply faith, hope, and charity
to a solution; when he says that we should be motivated by love; when he says
that our laws should favor keeping families together; when he calls the rule of
law "one of the major pillars" of a common-sense solution -- in all
these things he is telling the truth.The Latter-Day Saints worship a
God who is perfect in both justice and mercy. Perhaps this is why one of his
servants would favor immigration laws that include both punishment for
infraction, and a way to put things right.
The problem is by not keeping the people in their country, lets those countries
ditators keep up their current system. Cuba is still under Castro because we
let so many Cubans into the States, if those millions stayed in Cuba, they
could have have rebelled and sent Castro packing. It happened in Eastern Europe
about fifteen years ago.
@The Real MaverickWe are suppose to question."I am more
afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will
not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. "--Brigham
Young, "Eternal Punishment," Journal of DiscoursesWe have
our free agency to choose. We are not bound politically to the Churches
political position on political issues.
19 years ago, my family and I immigrated from Canada to Utah as "resident
aliens" to work and live in this country. My Dad was a US citizen living in
Canada, so I was able to get US citizenship through him. We filled out all the
papers, paid all the fees, jumped through all the "flaming hoops" to do
it. 10 years later, my husband and sons became US citizens, by filling out all
the papers, paying all the fees and jumping through all the flaming hoops yet
again. I never considered the system "broken", just what we had to do
to gain legal access to this country. We pay taxes and have enjoyed a good life
here. Not thrilled about the medical system even before Obamacare, (a whole
other story), but we expect that since we are here we follow the law or suffer
consequences which may include separation from our family. This isn't
rocket science. Everyone has the same opportunity. It's tougher for some,
I'm sure to come up with the fees, so maybe the humane part of it could be
a "perpetual immigration fund" to assist those who can show dire need in
their refugee status.
"I'm not aware the Church tells its members what political views they
should have. The Church is entitled to speak out on issues that may be
considered political. Many folks who simply believe that the government's
role in such issues should be different are not necessarily opposing the
Church's stance."Sometimes the Church isn't as soft
about it as you are implying they are. For example, in California during Prop 8
letters were read to all the congregation encouraging members to do what they
can to get it to pass. When a political issue is also a moral issue (and
same-sex marriage is, since it tramples under men's feet God's notion
of marriage), the Church not only speaks out, but says what is the right thing
to do.The Church's stance is that gay marriage should not be
legalized (I hope you know that's not a secret). If somebody's stance
is to legalize SSM, that person is in fact opposing the Church's stance.
Simple as that.
I am surprised by the intransigence of many posting comments regarding
immigration reform. Utah probably has more people per thousand who have lived
in a developing country among common folk. You speak their language and ate
their food. You tasted of their povertyThe current system of
immigration does not work well; it is time consuming and expensive and favors
the politically connected in most countries. The Church supports it. That
almost certainly means that reform would help the Church achieve its goals.
Sure, undocumented people have entered or stayed in the U.S. illegally but I
have driven highways in Utah. Let's just say that most drivers exceed the
posted limit. People entering illegally generally are working to end the
grinding poverty experienced in their home countries because of crony
capitalism. Why do you break the law daily?It is true that their
labor acts as a substitute for our low-skilled labor, but it also acts as a
complement and their demand for goods and services creates jobs. I do not want
to change the size and scope of government to resolve a small problem.
@Mexican UteWe would all like to know the source of your information that
Mexicans are no longer crossing the border, but they are mostly from Central
America.I had heard that the flow into the USA had slowed due to the lousy
economy, but your comments are interesting.Where did you get your
Many people seem to be hung up on the typical argument of letting people in vs.
keeping them out.The leaders of the Church, according to this
article, say nothing of it; their focus on immigration reform isn't to let
people funnel into the United States, it's to keep families together,
whether they stay here or leave. They also affirm the importance of border
security. It isn't at all about amnesty or free pardoning.
What's missing is an explanation to members about why President Uchtdorf
said what he said.This goes beyond "Love your Neighbor."We
might understand better if President Monson said something like this in
Conference:National borders are the creation of man. God does not
distinguish between his children on one side vs the other. Many people have
moved north into Spain, England, France...and yes, the United States and have
embraced the gospel. They are fellow citizens in the Kingdom of God. Their
man-determined immigration status does not matter. As Saints we will accept them
and ignore their legal troubles. We support amnesty for these brothers and
sisters.No one said that at Conference.You have to step over
some serious doctrine to support amnesty. We deserve an explanation.
Mercy cannot rob justice and remain righteous. If we can compassionately apply a
painless death penalty, we can compassionately deny resident privileges to
illegal immigrants March 30, 2011 The Examiner"The idea of the Utah Compact actually
originated with us here at the Chamber", Rigg claimed. Rigg also explained
that "the compact...we tried to make sure that it was something that was
characterized as something that came from broader community and not from the
Chamber...so if you look..I can tell this group that...if you look online or
look anywhere, you're not going to find the Chamber's fingerprints on
it".It concerns me that the Church has taken a moral position
based on the business communities thirst for cheap labor. In 2009,
Mexican President Felipe Calderon told the Associated Press: "Every single migrant to the United States is one family that is losing the father,
or one family that is losing a son."Many husbands come
here and start a second family, and never return to their first family.
Something is wrong here. I think the majority of people know it's a problem
caused by business trying to cut labor costs. If families are the concern, why
not take the battle to them? And why just immigration? It seems wanting to keep
families together should apply to all people breaking laws. I don't
understand why they have singled out one group that commits crimes daily. I have family that came here legally from Mexico. You would be surprised
how many Mexicans have been in this country at one time or another working. Many
times it's the husband that comes here and sends money back to his family.
Our laws are not separating families, it's our lack of enforcement and
their choice to come here and work, defying our laws. Amnesty will
just keep repeating the problem, until we enforce the laws. And there is no
better time to start than now. But it won't happen under Obama. Any actions
should wait until we have someone in office that respects the law.
I really appreciate that the leaders of the Church are willing to participate in
this issue that it's not easy.The only thing I can say is that
anybody that has not been separated from their family cannot even understand the
pain and hardship these people go through. You don't have to be Christian
to understand this, this is just simple sense of humanity. Yes they should
enforce security at the border and all that, but they haven't done it. Now,
I read here if God will allow illegal immigrants into heaven, sorry, that does
not makes sense at all. There will be no illegals trying to be with God because
his laws are above our terrenal laws and he is a God of compassion and
forgiveness and those attributes we are lacking in this country that we say was
stablished because of our faith in God. For God there are no boundaries or
countries. We are ALL his children and he welcomes everybody.
I am disappointed obeying honoring and sustaining the law is deemed to be
non-applicable by the church leaders. So can I now decide which laws I will
obey, sustain, and honor? And as one writer noted: what about harsh immigration
laws in countries like Mexico? Is the Church objecting to them also? If not, why
There are many repub posters here speaking out against the Utah compact endorsed
by the LDS church.How many of you watched conference?How
many of you sustained the prophets?How many of you have temple
recommends?It's time to repent.Sustaining our
leaders is more than just lip service on Sunday. It's pretty simple, you
either follow the lord's anointed or not.I think that beck,
skousen, John Birch Society, and other similar groups (false profits) are
exactly what The Lord warned us against. As for me and my house, we will serve
The Lord and follow his living prophets before ever bowing to political party
ideology or am radio.
@hamacaThe Church as an institution is politically neutral. The
issues mentioned are not solely political issues. The "ordain women"
hoopla, is strictly doctrinal, so I won't comment on that one. But as for
abortion and changing the definition of marriage, well, those have to do with
human life, and changing the very definition of the basic unit of society, which
definitely have moral implications. These are moral issues of eternal import,
not solely political issues. As Elder Holland once said:"My young friends,
there is a wide variety of beliefs in this world, and there is moral agency for
all, but no one is entitled to act as if God is mute on these subjects or as if
commandments only matter if there is public agreement over them." Think of
the "watchmen on the tower" analogy.
@Mexican Ute:"I would also have everyone on the board know that the
wave of Mexicans crossing the border has slowed down to a trickle."Could be... they've switched to coming on visas and overstaying. Cuts
down on hiking through the US's southern desert."Most of
them that come through now are of Central American origin."Doesn't matter from whence they come. Illegal is illegal.
Exactly what immigration laws are inhumane? Deportation? And why is it just
America, when other countries enforce much stricter laws? @Mexican
Ute, your example is no longer relevant, as a spouse is covered by one of
Obama's waivers, so is family unification. Marry someone here on a visa,
and you should expect problems. It's that way in most countries. This looks like another big push for business to continue flooding our labor
market. After 28 years of no enforcement, haven't we had enough? Amnesty
just brings more families here illegally, and encourages them to break our laws.
It just continues the problem. The only way to stop it is through enforcement,
and it has to happen now. California no longer has a white-non Hispanic
majority, Hispanics, both legal and illegal have become the majority. It's
gotten out of hand. As far as the statue of liberty goes, it
welcomed legal immigrants. They are not the focus of this discussion.
I think it was great that Pres. Uchtdorf was invited to this meeting and I
appreciate what he said at it. I didn't hear him advocating breaking the
law, but writing a law that was humane and effective all around. Only time will
tell if this is even possible, but we need to at least hope for the best and
then go from there.Do I think the President will endorse and act
upon any of the counsel gleaned at this meeting? No. As stated already,
I'm sure this whole thing was just for show, but I think these religious
leaders needed to speak up all the same.
I would also have everyone on the board know that the wave of Mexicans crossing
the border has slowed down to a trickle. Most of them that come through now are
of Central American origin.That has been the case since at least
2010.I could show you guys an image that is shown in most
immigration centers in Mexico, where it shows a grpahic picture saying,
"Crossing into the USA without documents is very dangerous, and you could be
playing with your life as well as your family's. Obtain legal
documentation."The Church's handbook is clear in that it
does not support illegal immigration. Nevertheless, there are still many people
that do it even members of the Church. I never support immigrating to another
country wo proper documentation.The second one is the most
sustainable for the health of the nation. And the sentiment against the Latin
Americans is really no different than it was against the blacks in the Jim Crow
Era or the Irish in the Civil War era. Anytime the economy goes down in the USA
immigrants (the most recent ones) always get the blame.
"In 1979 testimony to Congress, Chavez complained, "... when the farm
workers strike and their strike is successful, the employers go to Mexico and
have unlimited, unrestricted use of illegal alien strikebreakers to break the
strike."Some things don't change, do they? In 1986 the LDS
church supported amnesty also, and never complained when the enforcement part of
the laws were not enacted. (To be fair, neither did other churches).
D&C 42: 79, 84-86 84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she
shall be delivered up unto the law of the land. 85 And if he or she
shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
86 And if he or she shall lie, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of
the land.That says it all.
@prelaxWhat I am talking about are the financial constraints that go
behind the laws. Imagine. Getting married to a foreign national HERE on a
student visa, and then have USCIS say that she has to go back to her country
because she came here on a student visa. Then have bank accounts and stock
options proving that your wife won't become a public charge in the
USA...stock options!The Immigration laws are liberal...for those
that have no visa requirement to enter the USA. For those that do have it,
it's extremely tough and costly.Mexico on the other hand has
liberalized their immigration laws. You marry a Mexican national and you are
automatically fast tracked to the equivalent of the green card if you so desire.
The cost of said residency is MUCH cheaper than in the USA.
@AllBlack:"But this is about changing the law for a common sense one
so that these people aren't in a 'breaking the law'
situation."Then you should welcome that same law change re bank
robbing."Most just want to work and build a better life and the
law should allow you to do that."In the mean time they come here
taking jobs that unemployed Americans should be working... and depressing wages
as well.@play by the rules:"I hope he remembered the
sustaining the law portion of the 13th article of faith."You
mean the portion of the law that says it's a felony to aid and abet an
illegal (USC 1324)?@Isaiah 1:15:"Most of Colorado, Utah,
Nevada, Arizona, California and parts of Texas were stolen at gun point from
Mexico."No, no. They were part of the American Indian
nation.@Mexican Ute:"The Church is concerned with the
current immigration laws that separate families."Then the Church
should encourage illegal immigrants to stay home with their families.
Bank robbery, illegally crossing the border, id theft, social security fraud,
and lying on a I-9 form are all Federal offenses. Crossing the border illegally
is a misdemeanor, the rest are felonies. So it is a valid comparison. @Steve C. WarrenGod never said illegal immigration was OK. He told us to
live the law of the land. Making life better for your family is not
a reason to break the law. There are billions of people in the world with worse
lives than our neighbor to the south. (Mexico has the 12th best economy in the
world). “Good, law-abiding citizenship is a key to more
abundant, joyful living. Taxes could be much lower, people would be more happy
with their neighbors, homes would be strengthened, and each individual would
find more inner peace, if laws were better observed.”---LDS President
Spencer W. Kimball
@SLars,Our legal system is not obliged to hand out the stiffest
possible sentence for every infraction. We can do better than demand a pound of
flesh, particularly since we're dealing with a lot of people who are a net
positive. We should not be so completely appalled that someone might commit a
civil infraction in order to obtain freedom and opportunity or to survive. Jean
Valjean, anyone?Speaking of France, I suppose we should send the
Statue of Liberty back to France because we obviously no longer believe in what
it represents. By that I'm not suggesting we should have an open border
policy. What I'm suggesting is that rules, principles, and laws exist in a
hierarchy, and we would do well to recognize situations in which one principle
takes precedence over another. The day that overstaying a visa becomes a higher
law that is used to subvert human beings seeking freedom and opportunity in the
best way they know how is the day that we've officially lost the recipe.
"There are also LDS liberals who also put politics ahead of the prophets,
for example when they support the "ordain women" movement, oppose the
church's stance on abortion, and oppose the Church's stance on gay
marriage."I'm not aware the Church tells its members what
political views they should have. The Church is entitled to speak out on issues
that may be considered political. Many folks who simply believe that the
government's role in such issues should be different are not necessarily
opposing the Church's stance. Rather, they simply have a different take on
the role government should play.
PopsThere already is a way to become square with the law. Stop doing
what they are doing, return home, and come back legally. The business owners
that commit felonies by hiring them need to get square with the laws also. Rewarding illegal actions harms society at it's most basic core.
It seems we are being led into conversations to divert discussion
away from enforcement of immigration laws.
Helping the families of illegal immigrants stay together may not conform with
the law, but it tends to usually be the right thing to do. To say that obeying
the law is always the right thing to do is a comfortable position only for those
who know little of history. People sometimes are put in a position where they
must choose to obey a higher law and disobey a lesser law. That was the case
with Adam and Eve, with the prophet Daniel, with the patriots at the Boston Tea
Party, with the comparative handful of German Christians who illegally worked
against their nation's duly elected leader, etc. I believe in
obeying, honoring and sustaining laws except in cases where doing so isn't
in harmony with the will of God.
I'm surprised at the number of people that ignore the id theft, social
security fraud and i-9 perjury, all felonies. Coming across the border illegally
carries a fine, deportation and jail time. It's much more than a speeding
ticket. I'm also surprised at the Church leaders who ignore
three of Gods ten commandments, lying, stealing and coveting. In the
1986 and 1996 amnesties we passed building the border, interior enforcement,
e-verify, more judges and law clerks. We also passed a visa entry-exit check in
1996. None of them were ever enacted. In my opinion, Church leaders would better
serve by wanting enforcement, instead of the political stand they take with
amnesty (including letting them stay). Anyone who supports amnesty,
supports continuing illegal immigration.Reform provisions dealing with
enforcement in the past have been ignored, there is no reason to believe they
will be enforced in the future.
@Samson01:"I really don't know if there is a viable solution to
the whole illegal immigration problem."There is no solution
because Hispanic immigrants (from across our southern borders) are starting to
control our elections. And since politicians want to continue to reelected,
they continue to cow-tow to the Hispanics vote... which means no meaningful
immigration controls. Face it folks, our country is very rapidly being taken
over by foreigners...without a shot being fired, by the way."If
I were to enforce change though...It would be to make extraordinary efforts to
secure the border."Never happen. Many cross the border
submissively placing themselves in the hands of the border patrol seeking
asylum, who are then put up in hotels and fed awaiting court decisions, then
silently sneak away.And many come on visas but overstay."Then, I would streamline the path to legal immigration and
citizenship."Disagree. Illegals should never obtain citizenship
unless they go about it in the legal fashion. Stay if they want, but no
Chris BImmigration does not equal robbing a bank.techpubsI think it should be obvious that Church leaders do not
want most immigration infractions to be treated as felonies.RichardB,God is perfect. Men and governments are not. I assume
Church leaders are aware of what God requires.Patriot,There are no illegals from Cuba. The so called Wet Foot, Dry Foot policy
guarantees amnesty to every Cuban who reaches US soil. Each and every one is
here legally.Lone Eagle,Is there any reason for the church to
worry about how illegal immigrants to Mexico are treated? Is there a wave of
such folks? Seems unlikely.Play by the rules and Mack2828,I am quite sure President Uchtdorf knows the Articles of Faith and that the
First Presidency (who he represented here) does as well. The Church is
advocating for a change in the law (which many law abiding folks do for various
Chris B,I don't know why we keep comparing illegal immigrants
to bank robbers. That's pretty harsh. Go live in Mexico for a few years and
then come back and say you wouldn't do exactly the same as many have done
in coming here illegally because, all things considered, it was their best
option. Judging from many of the comments, one would think that illegal
immigration is the most heinous crime one could ever commit.Many of
the commenters here apparently identify with Javert in Les Miserables. Might I
suggest that a better alternative would be Bishop Myriel. I say let's
provide a way for illegal immigrants to square themselves with the law, which
will then allow us to keep the good ones (there are many) and throw the bad ones
back. Many of their kids are awesome. We could come out of this smelling like a
rose. I don't understand why so many are so fiercely focused on making a
bad situation worse.
Given that crossing the border illegally is less of an offense than exceeding
the speed limit by more than 10 mph I think most of these comments are
misplaced. Huge problem, no easy answer. Some of the hardest working, law
abiding people I know came here by non-legal means. Chris B, just like most of
your anti BYU comments you are way off target. Stick to sports, at least then
you are entertaining.
allblack,Should we change the law so bank robbers who have robbed
banks can keep the money they've stolen?
Most of the animosity toward the "undocumented" expressed in the
comments seems to be misplaced. We should be upset with our federal government
for not dealing with the border in appropriate ways. Many of the people who come
here illegally are simply doing what any reasonable person would do, given the
circumstances. (I've lived in Guatemala - I've had at least a taste of
what it's like to live without hope for the future.)The Utah
Compact does in fact provide common-sense guidance towards resolving the
problem. A big part of it is to provide a reasonable way for people to square
themselves with the law. That in necessary so that we can sort out the bad guys
and send them back, whilst keeping the good ones who, quite frankly, are
Mexico's (and Guatemala's, and El Salvador's, Honduras',
Nicaragua's, Panama's, etc.) loss. There are a lot of people here
illegally who make America a better place. I think we ought to figure out a way
to keep those people, and we especially shouldn't punish their children.
Common sense tells us if we want it to stop, then we need to enforce the laws.
Encouraging people to come here illegally with "reform" doesn't
work. To those who want legal immigration to be easier, we already
have the most liberal laws in the world. Before 1976 we allowed in 500,000
people a year, now we let in over a million. In 2011 we let in 1.2 million
people when 26 million Americans were looking for full time work.Do
we let in everyone from China and India that want to come here?
How does this help BYU football - I don't see the angle.
Common sense tells us to abandon the fence, it's a fool's errand,
it's an expensive gimmick that's easily bypassed and will not work.
Common sense tells us we are neighbors with Mexico, so act like neighbors, and
remember in the west we share historically common lands. Common sense plainly
requires us to be neighborly, so those whose shrill call to follow the rule of
(a bad) law are plainly out of touch with reality. The law needs to be changed
and those who broke? a bad law need to be forgiven, Congress can do that except
it's common knowledge that Congress is broken.My ancestors came here
as parts of families, so today they'd be a broken family, but back then
they were allowed, thankfully. We need to return to more sane policy about
immigration from our friends and neighbors. Mexico is not our enemy, so the
border should be like our border with Canada.
I liked the part about border security! That MUST come first, before any
solution can be found. It would take care of a big part of the problem.
I find Elder Uchtdorf's comments reassuring. I went to my caucus meeting
and all the candidates to be delegates just wanted to ship everyone back, one
even prefacing her stance as "I know this sounds cruel". It sounds
cruel because it is cruel and deep down she knew it was wrong. It is not
realistic or practical either to ship 12 million people back, many of whom have
been here for decades. Yes ship people back who just got here. Yes ship
people back that have criminal histories. Yes build a fence and make it
difficult to cross and enforce our borders. No don't ship people back who
have been here for years and their children grew up here. No don't break
up families. Yes make them pay a penalty and earn the right to vote through a
significant process. If they are veterans of our military, yes grant them
citizenship. Yes let there be a workable program for mirgrant workers.
@Wasatch Rebel:You said "If we aren't a nation of laws, but
instead a nation of feelings, we are doomed indeed."Well, I
think the LDS leaders position is based on their "feelings" or
promptings. Facts or various arguments carry no weight.
I believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. Does President Uchtdorf?
Religious leaders support amnesty for the vast majority of illegal aliens who
routinely commit serious felonies in order to get jobs– document fraud,
forgery, Social Security fraud, perjury on I-9 forms and child identity theft.
At the same time, they turn their backs on an estimated 80,000 Utah children who
are victims of illegal alien driven identity theft. They allow the illegal
aliens who use these children’s Social Security numbers to become full
members of their religious organizations without requiring them to stop their
job-related, criminal activities. They show no compassion for the innocent
American children who have their credit destroyed, are saddled with arrest
records, have their medical records corrupted with life threatening consequences
and who are denied means-tested benefits.
We need to have compassion for famiies. We need compassion for those who are the
victims of illegal immigrant criminals...those who rob, rape, and murder, or
kill people by driving drunk. We need to have compassion for the families of
those who can't find a job because there are illegals willing to work for
lower than minimum wage to do those same jobs. Yes, there needs to be a sensible
immigration policy, beginning with enforcing the borders, and some kind of
earning of citizenship should be made possible, such as serving in the military
for a specified number of years. But those who commit felonies and those who
have D.U.I.s should be sent packing. I only wish we could send regular citizens
who do these things packing as well.There are solutions, but we
should start with the current laws and enforce them. If we aren't a nation
of laws, but instead a nation of feelings, we are doomed indeed.
I'm amazed at how obtuse so many people are when it comes to "the
law". How many of you standing on your pedestal arguing nothing is more
important than the law were also the first to grab your guns to head to Nevada
to support Mr. Bundy? Isn't Mr. Bundy also breaking "the law".
Oh, I see, you support the law only when it aligns with your ideals. Sorry, you
can't have your cake and eat it too. If you support rigid interpretation
of one, then you need to for another.Many laws exist on the books
that are either not enforced, are contradictory or are considered obsolete, even
though they exist as laws. Immigration laws have been arbitrarily or not
enforced for some years. Fix the law, fix enforcement, but don't apply
retroactively to those who were just trying to find a better life through hard
work and opportunity, particularly if they have committed no crime. It's
the only way, particularly for true Christians.
From the sound of most of these comments, I hope Jeb Bush isn't planning on
throwing his hat in the ring. His words that illegal immigration is an "act
of love" appears a non starter. The right will hand him his hat if he tosses
it in. And the status quo which everyone defines as "unacceptable" just
rolls on. Why not just give Congress a year off to think about a solution since
not one in the House even wants to mention it...election coming you know.
Isaiah 1:15Ogden, UTAnd how did Mexico obtain the right to the
lands mentioned? At gun point. Mexico was unable to control the land they
claimed and realized that selling it was better than having it taken without
payment. They did not pay anyone (Native Americans) when they "acquired"
I follow the prophets on this one.No, entering into a country
without proper documentation is nowhere near the same crime as robbing a bank.
Especiallly if you are a minor and you have to cross with your parents.When the prophets speak, the debate is over. The Church is concerned with the
current immigration laws that seperate families.I am also concerned
with the current immigration laws are so tough to meet that the people that are
looking for work to feed their families have no other choice but to cross
illegally because they cannot meet the high financial constraints of a work visa
in the USA or even a tourist visa.Even Mexico has liberalized its
immigration laws with Calderon and now Peña Nieto. There are even signs
discouraging illegal immigration to the USA in the immigration centers in
Mexico.The USA would do good to do the same. No amnesty. But yes,
ease up the financial constraints so people are more apt to follow the law.
It's coming here illegally that separates families. If we want to stop it,
then we need to enforce our laws, and force people to come here legally. We
allow over a million people a year on green cards, more than the rest of the
world combined, and more than any other time in this countries history. If you
add in the 3.2 million work visas each year, good for 3 years, we do not need
illegal immigration.Fathers come here without their families,
parents hire people to bring their children here illegally, many times the rest
of the family is in their home country. This is illegal immigration, it breaks
families. Parents know they are breaking the laws, separating
families is is a result of their actions, and the business owners that hire
@Chris B.So please Chris, if you live in Utah, then you'll
recall that Utah was part of Mexico. If I start a war against you, then put a
puppet ruler in charge with a gun to his head and say, "Now sell me the land
you refused to sell be before the war I started," is that a legal
transaction? I think not. Most of Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, California
and parts of Texas were stolen at gun point from Mexico. What makes you NOT the
illegal alien is you live in one of those states and are not of native indian or
I wonder if the people got to heaven who came to this country and summarily did
away with people who lived here who were different from them in beliefs,
languages, culture, and dress. Even though, I could add, many of them fed those
people and taught them to live in the land that was, to the newcomers, so
strange and unenviting. For their efforts, the original residents lost their
lives, were herded like cattle to be relocated and had their land taken. Yes, I
do wonder, did they make it to heaven?
I believe that most, if not all, Americans want growth and prosperity. We all
want happiness. We all want to be together with our families.Immigrants represent a wonderful opportunity to learn from other cultures and
people. Immigrants also represent potential for economic growth and prosperity.
They represent new small businesses, new homes, new schools, and so much more.
I agree with the LDS Church's stance that we must try to keep
families together.I believe if Congress would enforce the borders
and make it possible for faster immigration, but reduce the ability of illegal
crossings, drugs, human trafficking, and other terrible things to occur, that we
could achieve the good things that immigration represents: strong families and
a strong, growing economy. All people can benefit from America, and
what we represent: freedom and opportunity.
I hope he rememebered the sustaining the law portion of the 13th article of
LDS Liberal,There are also LDS liberals who also put politics ahead
of the prophets, for example when they support the "ordain women"
movement, oppose the church's stance on abortion, and oppose the
Church's stance on gay marriage. I don't know you so I am not saying
you are one of these LDS liberals, but some of your fellow LDS liberals do
indeed put politics ahead of the prophets. Not to mention, the Church
doesn't really have a strong position on immigration (as others have
pointed out), but does have quite a strong stance on gay marriage and abortion.
Chris B et al,Yes they are currently breaking the law. But this is about changing the law for a common sense one so that these people
aren't in a 'breaking the law' situation. Most just want to work
and build a better life and the law should allow you to do that. Draconian and victorian-era type laws are ultimately a mistake.
I call for a unified socialist system to include all of North America. Passing
NAFTA without political union was an exercise is disaster. You may not like the
socialist part, yet, but given population shifts the unity concept is
12th Article of Faith, except when families are impacted by the "obeying,
honoring, and sustaining the law." Then, ignore the law to keep the
families together. Hard to reconcile the two.Just curious, is there
such concern for impacted families who are in other countries illegally, for
example, in Mexico? Has the Church leaders spoken out for the harsh penalties
of breaking Mexican immigration law leading to the separation of families?
@But seriously folks!President Uchtdorf met with Obama and a similar group
in March of 2013 with pretty much the same message.If you ask me,
Obama is just checking it off the list. Amnesty is a bad idea, especially in an
election year. He is probably setting up the GOP for another message to Latinos
that they are "the enemy."It is similar to his spin that
Republicans hate women, equal pay, students, sick people, minorities, ponies,
puppies...well, you get the idea.
I love President Uchtdorf but I'm afraid this meeting with Barack was
nothing more than a dog and pony show for the media as well as a way to pressure
the GOP to soften its illegal immigtant policy to something closer to out right
amnesty which is preferred by the Democrats for obvious political reasons with
the up coming election. Of course we love people but we also beleive in honoring
- sustating and obeying the law of the land. Illegals from Mexico and Cuba
etc... will find IF they are willing to obey the law and come here legally they
will find an open hand to pull them in. Barack and the Democrat's have no
intention of having a common sense immigration policy - it is amnesty or nothing
with Barack and forget about securing the border too. Instead of securing the
border we will however send M-16 carrying ATF agents to Nevada to gun down and
intimidate a 67 year old cattle rancher and his family. Welcome to AmeriKa.
Completely agree with gdog. A bunch of warm fuzzy statements that clear up
absolutely nothing.Why even make a statement so vague?
And once again, We see from comments that some Utah Mormon conservatives
will put politics AHEAD of the Prophets.I support Pres. Uchdoft and
the Utah Compact -- which the GOP soundly rejects.
@RichardB,"Will God allow illegal immigration into Heaven? I
doubt it"You're great Richard. Well said. Keep up the
The Utah compact was the work of business leaders in an effort to obscure the
line between legal and illegal immigration, and to make illegal immigration an
accepted way of coming here.
I don't have a great appreciation for the Utah Compact on Immigration. It
is long on ideals and short on solutions. It was our disregard for
the rule of law that has created the situation we are in now. A return to the
strict rule of law at this point would hurt so many. I really don't know
if there is a viable solution to the whole illegal immigration problem. If I were to enforce change though...It would be to make extraordinary
efforts to secure the border. As for the illegals that are here now? Make them
choose where they want to be. The defacto choice would be to remain here.
Those that remain, full citizenship. Then, only after the border is
reasonably secure (is that even possible?) enforce the rule of law strictly.Then, I would streamline the path to legal immigration and citizenship.
The current system is so broken!Is this even viable? If it were,
would we have the will to do this? This will probably have to be
solved by greater minds (or crueler) than mine.
I think it's great that LDS leaders are willing to meet with President
Obama to discuss immigration reform. I also think it shows respect for the
President, which may go a long ways to mend some of the public perception of the
LDS Church's history with respect to race and the priesthood.We
can all work together to make progress.
Will God allow illegal immigration into Heaven? I doubt it. He is strictly about
following rules to strengthen families and help future generations. I don't
see him allowing people to steal, lie or covet as a way of showing love to their
families. It's forbidden no matter the reason one chooses to follow these
paths. Amnesty in any form has failed this country seven times. It
encourages more law breaking, and should never be used again. We need to follow
the example of other countries and start enforcing our laws. Arguing
family separation over criminal activity is a waste of time. Especially when
it's only applied to breaking immigration laws (that leads to id theft,
social security fraud and perjury on I-9 forms).Love is sending people down the
path of righteousness; rewarding illegal/dishonest behavior is not love.
LAW ENFORCEMENT We respect the rule of law and support law enforcement’s
professional judgment and discretion. Local law enforcement resources should
focus on criminal activities, not civil violations of federal code. The question still remains as to whether or not the Church Elders believe that
those who have been deported at least once before should be removed since
re-entry after deportation is considered a felony. And a few million have done
@But seriously folks,President Obama meets with Christian leaders
all the time, and has since the beginning of his presidency. Just recently the
DN published an editorial detailing his meetings with the Pope. He also recently
met with prominent Buddhist leaders. And Jewish leaders. Google this and you can
find news stories about these issues almost every month.
I for one am very surprised that Obama would even care enough to meet with
religious leaders of Christian faiths. This is a huge step for him. Maybe
there is a glimmer of hope for our country.
Is breaking the law an act of love?Sure, it can be, whether it be
illegal immigration or robbing a bank. If a person robs a bank to give money to
their children that's as "admirable" and illegally immigrating to
better provide for your children.Is it right?No. Should it be rewarded?No.Is it tough when bad
decisions by bank robbers or illegal immigrants cause families to be
separated?YesShould we stop sending bank robber to
prison so that we wont be breaking up families?No
There isn't a stance made at all, let alone a reaffirmation of it. There is
a collection of warm fuzzy statements that at different times give creedence to
both main immigration positions. I suggest reading the provided link in this
article if you have not done so. The main bullet points:
*We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The meaning of the
term 'neighbor' includes all of God's children, in all places, at
all times. *We recognize an ever-present need to strengthen
families. Families are meant to be together. Forced separation of working
parents from their children weakens families and damages society.
*We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure
its borders. All persons subject to a nation's laws are accountable for
their acts in relation to them. So here we see sensitivity for the
needed love of neighbors (immigrants). But we don't see definition of
anything regarding limitations or none at all on how they come to our nation.Given is an acknowledgement of a nations rights to secure its'
borders. Except there isn't a stance made on what this should be defined