These people are not true Americans, they never were. They love America as long
as it delivers everything in their favor and hate it as soon as it doesn't.
jrgl, he would pay the fees to his state, not the Feds. The only reason the
Feds claimed the land was due to the claim to save some obscure tortoise. And
yet this same government bombed the Nevada desert with nuclear bombs how many
times? Seems a rather "convenient" excuse to control millions of acres.
I'm proud of our patriots who stood up to the Feds who should never have
been there in the first place.
Grazing fees, or no grazing fees.Our government should not be using
armed snipers to take away property from its citizens.These same
leaders now own much of this nations houses. What are they going to do if our
economy worsens, and people can't pay? Take our stuff at gunpoint?It's been reported, fifty three ranchers in this area have now loss
WORFThis has nothing to do with BHO. Taking lavish vacations should
be the subject of another article. Mr. Bundy needs to become
familiar with who owns title on the land - the US Gov't. It is within the
right of BLM to manage and remove the cattle if they see fit.
What is worse?Our commander in chief taking tens of millions from
tax payers for lavish vacations, or Mr. Bundy not paying grazing fees?Oh the inequality, and wage gap.--Did our commander pay taxes on that money he
took away from us?
No matter how some will try to spin it, this situation is really about an
American citizen (in this case a Nevada cattle rancher) who refuses to comply
with existing laws. If Mr. Bundy gets away with circumventing the law, then why
should any other citizen be expected to comply? “Freedom” does not
mean “free from obeying the law.” Mr. Bundy and his supporters are
on the side of lawlessness and are using the American flag and freedom as a
smoke screen to further their anti-government agenda. I support ranchers, except
those that think they are above the law. Unfortunately Mr. Bundy, through his
actions and words, is giving all ranchers a bad name.
Hmmm... Seems like Harry Reid is wanting the land to put a Solar Energy plant
on, to be built by a Chinese company. Many people out of work and he is farming
out jobs to China. I hope the Bundy Family and supporters stand firm, the US is
slowly, piece by piece, being sold out from under us.
No matter how many attest to Clive Bundy's character on these pages, the
man didn't pay his grazing fees for 20 years & owes $1.1 million
dollars. Who cares if your family has been doing something on land you
don't own for 100 years. You didn't pay so now your cattle are
rounded up. If you didn't like it be an individualist and buy your own
land to graze your own cattle. Can't afford it? Shouldn't be in the
business. Times change and we're not an agrarian society anymore. Why
heart disease is the number one cause of death in that area and Dr's
promote us eating plant based proteins anyway. So the ranch is going the way of
the old Wild West, perhaps our arteries will be clearer due to it.This
whole business of Utah getting involved in where the cattle are going to be sold
is cow manure.Sagebrush rebellion renew?
SammyB, We are all blessed to live and operate under the protection of the same
constitution. It's influence if felt by my bank and Clive's ranch. Some just think their interpretation of how it applies trumps everything
and everyone else. The founders set up a system that provides relief
when over-reaching abuses occur. It sounds like Clive and his colleagues have
fought some court battles and did not like the outcome. It was claimed that
these folks do not have the resources to advance their perceived claim to
constitutional purity through the courts. May be so. However, these issues have
been well litigated many times before. Utah is advancing a state's rights
assault on federal supremacy that will eventually end up in the legal system.
Perhaps that or other litigation will change things for Clive. That does not
change the fact that for the last 20 years Clive has opted to engage in criminal
activity. Just because you feel really, really passionate about something and
you really, really think you are right it does not give you the right to ignore
the law without consequences. Change the law!
Logan, your bank does not have a constitution.
Sammy, Clive nor the county are the arbitrators of what is constitutional. That
is the function of the judicial system. I said the same thing with Tim
DeChristopher's little tirade.Clive,Sammy and 52 other ranchers
have disagreements on how the owner of the land from whom they lease access to
run their private business has chosen to manage it. They may have valid
complaints. For what ever reason the management processes have not reflected
their interests. Does that give them the right to take what is not theirs? The
public has property rights too.Zion's bank best reflects my
values. I am going to call my current bank that holds my mortgage and see if
they are OK if I send my payments to Zions.
This is not his land and he paid the lease price before but now has decided not
to . I think there is some point he is not telling about. Does he want to cause
problems to make a point only he understands?
JJ1094--It's ownership that matters. Who cares if the Federal Agency that
is tasked with oversight management of that VALID ownership has changed 50
times. This only has bearing so he knows to whom he should make out the check
Logan,The rule of law gives the states the right over public lands in
their domain. FDR changed that with policy and it was unconstitutional. The Feds
have authority over territories as stated above but not states. Clive paid his dues until 20 years ago when the Feds decided the tortoises
(who cows do not hurt) took precedent. I watched as 52 other ranches in the area
were forced to shut down. They couldn't afford the legal fees in a system
that wanted them out so they could take the water and mining rights. Clive offered to pay the fees to the state but the BLM said no. He is a very
hard working, honest man.
Since when is freeloading a conservative principle? Now it is a "Concord or
Lexington moment" to refuse to pay for use of the public's land for
your personal business? You may disagree with the policy or management, but does
that give you the right to set aside the rule of law? Vanceone- Adverse
possession can not be used on Federal Land.
@UtahBlueDevilFor his part, Bundy maintains that his family's
claim to the land predates the creation of the federal agencies he's been
battling.I wonder if this is a 14 Amendment issue: No person may be
deprived of life, liberty,or property without "due process of law."Mr. Bundy would seem to suggest that these agencies do not have
authority since his "property" rights pre-date their existence - he is
questioning the legitimacy of the authority not the fees.
UtahBlueDevil: Ever heard of the concept of "adverse possession?" You
can, indeed, gain title to land that you are using, if no one objects to your
use for a period of time--normally seven years. These guys have been there for
a hundred years.
"In a joint statement, Sens. Orrin Hatch and Mike Lee joined Reps. Rob
Bishop, Jason Chaffetz and Chris Stewart in urging BLM director Neil Kornze to
keep the cattle out of Utah."The cattle lobby is obviously in
charge here in Utah, gotta love being able to buy protection, what's the
name for that?Safety of the Utah Cattle population, the same ones
who dump their cattle in the Uintahs and go look for them in the fall?
Our children were born in Bunkerville, we know these people. We watched many
friends who had ranches lose them when the BLM used the tortoise as an excuse to
drive them off land their great-grandfathers had legally used for grazing. Out
of 53 ranches, Clive is the last one. All the others closed because of the new
extreme fees and limits. I could write ten thousand words explaining the
legalities of this but no room.The government is now euthanizing the
turtles used as their excuse. They have sold water rights and mining and oil
rights and has to remove the last obstacle. Our relatives lost 150 yr old mining
rights in Gold Butte that were then sold to the big boys. Clive has
repeatedly stated he would pay the state the fees but not the BLM who have no
Constitutional authority over state land (this is not a territory so above
citation wrong). I have friends who have reported seeing the calves
separated from mothers crying for relief. I know these salt of the earth people.
KUDOS to the DN (and KSL) for covering this story. For whatever reason
I've found the local coverage of this confrontation sparse. Although the
national media are covering it quite a bit.After I got a chance to
watch the video of the "federales" guarding the cattle access, I have to
think that they are poorly trained in crowd control.I don't
know who's "right or wrong" on the issue, but its' quite
obvious that this whole messhas he distinct possibility of getting out of
hand - fast.
I've been wondering if any of these cows have new calves that are being
left without their mothers to care for them. It is calving season. I have also
been reading that the desert tortoise is going to be destroyed by the
government, but I don't know whether it is in this area, or somewhere else.
What kind of comment is that from our governor :"the concern and safety of
utahs herds". Talk about spineless... Really? That's all he's
worried about in this?
According to article four section 3 clause 2 of the US constitution- "The
Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and
Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United
States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice
any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State." Therefore Mr.
Bundy should address members of congress about this issue. It is apparent that
Mr. Bundy wants to properly raise cattle and he seems sympathetic to the
tortoise population. Cattle are not harmful to the desert tortoise and may even
be symbiotic given that Mr.Bundy has grazed cattle for many years on land that
contained desert tortoises. He has not paid the taxes imposed upon him to
sustain the BLM management of the area. However, given that the management of
this situation by the BLM has been quite embarrassing I would encourage the BLM
to construct a report that illustrates their need to manage the area.
This would have been a Concord and Lexington moment if Americans were of the
same caliber as the founding Americans.