Obamacare's 'success' doesn't hold up to scrutiny

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  • Supercool11 R-Valley, NV
    April 15, 2014 10:46 p.m.

    It seems many commenters don't understand the difference between a news story and an editorial - such as freedomfighter41.

    The Affordable Care Act will not lower health care costs. Adding layers of bureaucracy and regulations will only add costs. More people may become insured, but most of them will be heavily subsidized, so the government piles on more liability. Someone may have to pay for that eventually.

    I heard it said one time that the ACA will lower costs by reducing corporate profits, which is funny in its absurdity. Profit motive in tandem with competition lowers costs by increasing efficiency. True competition in the health insurance industry would lower costs. Government regulation will not. Remove profit motive you have no reason to cut costs and be more efficient. Witness government agencies and divisions of corporations spending money on petty projects so they don't "lose" that money out of next years budget.

  • YoungPuppy west Jordan, UT
    April 15, 2014 9:54 a.m.

    All I know is that my wife is one of those 7 million people. She has been in terrible pain for the past 3 years and unable to afford healthcare since she lost her job 2 years ago. She took about 30 minutes to sign up for the ACA on the exchange and now she has affordable healthcare and is being treated and hopefully soon she will get better so that she can re-enter the workforce and be a productive member of society again. Without the ACA her options were to stay in pain or die. I think that it very much successful and "holds up to scrutiny" for me.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 15, 2014 6:41 a.m.

    The recent results showing it will lower the deficit makes all conspiracy spins irrelevant. the program is successful because the private health care industry is the main engine.

  • Rolo_Tomassi Park City, UT
    April 14, 2014 8:20 a.m.

    The objective of Obamacare was NOT to cover the uninsured; that is merely a byproduct.

    The first objective of Obamacare was Democratic fundraising. Tens of thousands of new IRS agents are required to enforce Obamacare (both to ensure accurate delivery of tax credits & also to audit companies & individuals for compliance), all of whom will join the National Treasury Employees Union, a left-wing public sector union, that in turn collects dues & funnels them to the Democratic Party. In addition to the new IRS agents, other governmental organizations have hired hundreds to thousands more -- all of whom reliably contribute any politician (Democrats) who will promise raises and increases to their gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care.

    The second objective of Obamacare is to create a permanent underclass reliant upon Big Government for ever-increasing handouts from the productive class. The permanent underclass will reliably vote for more handouts.

  • Dr. Thom Long Beach, CA
    April 14, 2014 4:47 a.m.

    There is also the consideration that many people who had a health plan and liked it because it met their needs (physically and financially) had their policies canceled because they didn't meet the governments definition. Estimates place this number as high as 5 million. If that number is correct, then 5 million subtracted from 7.1 million is 2.1 million. Also, how many people are being subsidized or not paying the premiums? A friends ACA premium is $875 a month but is 100% paid by the government, so giving a product away is not the same as selling a product. This is all smoke and mirrors just like the quote that all the jobs lost during the Great Recession have been replaced, if so, why are three of my academic colleagues with PhDs in science, math and law still unemployed after 3 years. If they get jobs at Walmart, is that the same as having their jobs replaced? Hardly.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 12, 2014 9:58 p.m.

    The bottom line with Obamacare - we can do better for us and our kids. This nation has smart people - perhaps not a majority anymore but enough to create and vote for a good health care law that will help everyone. Obamacare is not it. We can and must do better otherwise our kids have no future - we will pass to them a bankrupt country in dept so far to China that even our freedom is questionable. When the US goes bankrupt and China calls our loan it effects all of us - liberal, conservative and everyone in between. Got to get it together people - set aside your political bias and ideology and do what is right for your kids and grandkids. This isn't that hard people. Really. This is economics 101. Everyone - including liberals - knows Obamacare is disaster but pride keeps us from doing the right things. Swallow the pride and just do the right thing for the country - not the party or the ideology. Your kids deserve it!

  • Gene Poole SLC, UT
    April 12, 2014 3:38 p.m.

    The controversy indicated in the article is about religious freedom. As in, my religious right to not participate in something that does not conform to my sacred rights protected by the Constitution. Though I may be denigrated for this reference, please consider this: "Unfortunately, people are re-interpreting the Constitution as a living document, and it's not. It's a solid-based document and it shouldn't be played with." - Chuck Norris.

    It isn't about enrollment numbers, extended cost basis, who did what to whom in regards to success or failure of the program. It is about the multisided attack upon personal freedoms that has transpired under both conservative and liberal governments. Platitudes about your party or my party are part of the plan of divisiveness that is being played by both parties to keep us mollified into believing that politicians actually care about us commoner's needs.

    Ambrose Bierce said it best - "Politics is the conduct of public affairs for private advantage." I've lived in countries with "public health care". All of them were/still are disasters. How is the ACA any better? Don't know. I do know it's infringing upon my basic freedoms.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    April 12, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    @liberal larry "no death spiral has occurred"

    Your comment makes me believe that you don't understand what the death spiral is. The death spiral occurs when there are not enough younger, healthy people in the program to cover the costs of the older, sick people. Insurance companies then must raise their rates in order to make up the difference. As a result, fewer young people are able to afford insurance. Repeat until collapse.

    At this point, no one knows what the mix is on new enrollees. Is it more young, healthy people? Or more old, sick people? Obama's not saying. How would you know whether death-spiral conditions exist? When you declare that we are past danger, it's only cheerleading. It's just as misleading as Obama's self-cheerleading the other day.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    April 12, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    What I find most interesting about this editorial, as well as almost all other editorials and letters printed in this ultraconservative newspaper, is that the moderate and liberal comments get consistently higher "likes" compared to the conservative comments. What this tells me is that either the left-leaning comments are more well-reasoned or the conservative readers are more complacent. Or maybe both. Whatever. This is a trend I have noticed for a long time now.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 12, 2014 9:51 a.m.

    @Mike Richards… you said "This whole argument can be broken down into two opposing view points: Those who think that government is our savior and those who think that government is our servant."

    You are right, and wrong. There are two sides. There is one side that sees this as a government of the people, for the people, to do the peoples business. There is the other side who thinks that the government is some foreign entity that by its own nature is our enemy.

    That is the difference. One side sees it as how we as a people do things as a society that could not be done otherwise. Others… the government is to be attacked at all cost.

    I don't think out governmental situation is perfect, but we will never achieve perfection in this existence. We can only strive to do those things that move us closer to that end - feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, protecting those who can not protect themselves. We are not just stewards of ourselves, but our fellow brothers and sisters… how we do that is the subject of debate in my mind.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2014 8:46 a.m.

    People in Utah are supposed not too want affordable health care, at least that is what the neighbors and the D News state daily.

  • FT1/SS Virginia Beach, VA
    April 12, 2014 6:38 a.m.

    For all of you applauding Medicaid Expansion, your applauding those who Obamacare hurt the most in the expansion. The elderly, and the disabled who need Medicaid. The elderly and disabled that Medicaid was originally intended for, those who are not capable of earning a living, and have no funds. The expansion to those who are capable of working a living to obtain insurance are taking away funding from the elderly and the disabled. How proud they must be! What a lazy segment of the population to take away or reduce services to the elderly and the disabled. The expansion funding is not enough to keep services! Those who need it the most, have already had needed medical supplies taken away, and personal aide services reduced. All because of the healthy refusing to help themselves, and a liberal people willing to take it away for votes. I work within the system.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    April 12, 2014 6:33 a.m.

    Most people don't realize what a success the ACA is because they have never been one of the have not's or unprotected class of american society. You could play by the rules and a small percentage of the populace without the voting power to change things would unjustly be denied coverage in the individual marketplace due to pre exhisting conditions or lack of protections or the means to afford healthcare. In the meantime employees of corportations healthcare benefits weren't taxed and they benefited from coverage mandates like maternity (without the $7500 co pay commonplace in the individual marketplace) etc.

    While Bush was President the price of healthcare about doubled leaving more and more people unable to afford insurance. They were in effect priced out of the market of healthcare and more and more companies quit providing healtcare or increased deductables. The ACA gives subsidies to those that can't afford it. There are a ton of people that make $12 or less (not freeloaders) that struggle to pay premiums that average over 12K for a family. Pharmacutical pricing is obscene but Republicans won't even discuss price controls that could make healthcare more affordable and accessable like other countries.

  • endoftimes Vernal, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:51 p.m.

    Please - I beg you all to calm down. As all of us know the President told us over and over again that we will be taken care of because we can keep our doctors and insurance policies period (trust them). The promises have just got to be true.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:24 p.m.

    Re: Mike Richards "This whole argument can be broken down into two opposing view points: Those who think that government is our savior and those who think that government is our servant." It's actually a whole lot more complicated than that.

    I have been part of hired labor most of my life, except for two short stints as a self-employed businessman. As such I have been a servant of capital. I have sought to use government to help me survive against capital. As my late father said "the first thing you have to do in life is figure out how you're going to survive." True. This country's halting steps into socialism have helped me survive. In the future socialism will help many more, to survive.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:51 p.m.

    Obamacare's 'success' doesn't hold up to scrutiny’

    Not even in the "meant to be a slam" headline?

    This whole argument can be broken down into two opposing view points:
    Those who think that government is us, and we are them.
    Those who think the government is some kind of alien or non-tangible object bent on the destruction of America for no apparent reason.

    I don't think Obama is worried in the slightest about his place in history, not reagan mythology, but actual history.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    April 11, 2014 6:28 p.m.

    20% is considered "success". And these guys want to control our schools next? YIKES!!! (By their standards, the worst inner city schools are a success now.)

    This article just a slam on Obama?? Can't be. It never mentions his name, not even once. Paranoia anyone?

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    April 11, 2014 5:07 p.m.

    @Mike Richards – “This whole argument can be broken down into two opposing view points: Those who think that government is our savior and those who think that government is our servant.”

    And this cartoon caricature of the world, not to mention the nuances and complexities of specific issues (where tradeoffs have to be and there’s no such thing as a perfect solution), tells us everything we need to know about the conclusions you consistently reach.

    Personally, I prefer to think using facts, logic and reason and not an ideological algorithm.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 11, 2014 4:51 p.m.

    There are many stories about the gravely wounded rising up and doing heroic deeds. And in the words of that great New York sage "It ain't over till its over".

    The fact that so many conservative republican businessmen are spending so much time and energy to defeat Obamacare is a clear indication to me that it might be something very good.

    It may not be perfect but it seems to be better than the condition of health care by businessmen. Honest, decent, moral doctors and health care workers will cheer that which serves people better.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 11, 2014 4:37 p.m.

    This whole argument can be broken down into two opposing view points: Those who think that government is our savior and those who think that government is our servant. I'm part of the second group. We can read. We have read the Constitution. We can clearly see that the Federal level of government has been assigned only 17 duties. Health care and personal welfare are not on that list. Others who have not read the Constitution or who disagree with the Constitution think that government has whatever authority THEY want it to have. They disregard the Constitutional process that is required to add duties to the Federal Government by amending the Constitution. They want THEIR will to prevail, without going through the process.

    Mr. Obama has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution as it is written, not as he thinks it should be written. ObamaCare would not be allowed if he honored his oath and kept his promise to uphold the Constitution.

    The 10th Amendment assigns the State or the individual the responsibility to handle all duties not specifically listed in the Constitution. No cheating is allowed.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 4:17 p.m.

    "Obamacare's 'success' doesn't hold up to scrutiny"

    There really isn't much about this administration that DOES hold up under close examination. Which explains why there is so little interest in the mainstream media for doing that.

    Whether it is the Benghazi debacle, the IRS malfeasance, the "Fast'n Furious" scandal, the overreaching executive actions, the under-reaching immigration enforcement, sluggish recovery, the stagnant employment numbers, the vacuous foreign posture, this ridiculously mismanaged and unilaterally supported "Obamacare" fiasco or any of the many, many other examples of poor governance, this administration does not "hold up to scrutiny". And, we all pay for that poor performance.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    April 11, 2014 3:50 p.m.

    LDS Liberal: "Is it just me, or has the Deseret News Editorials really, REALLY turned uber-far-right-wing..."

    Judging from all the uber-far-left-wing commenters on this forum...its obviously not just you that thinks that way.

    When 99% of the media in this country are lock-step in complete agreement with the Obama administration, anything to the right of Nancy Pelosi or that even hints at criticism to this president's policies seems "far right" to many liberals.

    Those of us who believe in limited government (you know the stuff the U.S. Constitution was built around) see such restraints as common sense. Unfortunately, sense isn't as common as it used to be.

  • factsplease SLO, CA
    April 11, 2014 3:00 p.m.

    "Blue Cross Blue Shield, one of the largest insurers in the country, has said 80-85% of people have paid the first month’s premium for plans obtained through exchanges.

    "To look only at the exchanges (what DN does)is not giving you the full picture," said Christine Eibner, a senior economist at Rand Corporation.

    The Rand report found 9.3 million Americans gained health insurance from September 2013, which preceded the most recent open enrollment period, and mid March 2014, the last month of that period. The Rand numbers are estimates based on surveys of a 2,425-person sample."

    The CBO estimates that by 2019, 27 million people will have signed up on the marketplaces. There will still be roughly 31 million nonelderly residents who will be uninsured by 2024 due to being undocumented immigrants, would-be Medicaid enrollees who do not sign up or live in a state that did not expand coverage* and others who just don’t sign up.

    *According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, nearly 5 million people are not insured due to states refusal to expand medicare. (57,000 in Utah, 1 million+ in TX 700,000+ in Fl)

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    April 11, 2014 2:43 p.m.

    As others have pointed out, saying only 7 million have signed up overlooks the millions still on their parents insurance while in college--previously impossible--as well as those that have signed up under the states' expanded Medicaid programs.

    Another element being left out is that the ACA is intended to roll out piece-by-piece, so as not to shock the system so drastically. They knew the young and healthy would be reluctant to participate until they are older. The penalty is the incentive to make them do so. The first year it is minor, to nudge those already on the edge. Each year it goes up, allowing for several years of preparation. At some point, the youth will balance the penalty with the cost and opt-in.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 11, 2014 2:40 p.m.

    Like I've pointed out...

    Is it just me,
    or has the Deseret News Editorials
    really, REALLY turned uber-far-right-wing just the past couple of months?

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    "What you meant to say is Obamacare doesn't care how many millions of Americans lost their healthcare insurance because of Obamacare. "

    You don't go from around 20% uninsured to around 16% uninsured without there being many more gaining insurance than losing it. It's the insurance companies fault people lost insurance because all plans in place when the ACA passed are grandfathered in. Only those created after the ACA was signed into law that failed to meet standards got dropped.

    "Obamacare doesn't care how many millions of Americans are now paying higher premiums, higher co-pays and higher deductibles."

    The last three years have seen the slowest increase of healthcare expenses in half a century, where are the numbers that show that healthcare costs are increasing substantially?

    You want to know what failure is? Failure would be if we weren't seeing a sizable drop in the percentage of people uninsured (which has gone from around 20% to 16% already despite half the states not expanding Medicaid). People getting insurance on the exchange rather than their old plan, whether that number is 500k, 6 million, or 30 million, it doesn't matter.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 11, 2014 1:56 p.m.

    The marxist/Socialists commentary is interesting. Without defining liberty, it is easy to talk about the universal brotherhood of man. If it isn't defined, then the Utopian dream that ends in ashes is always under girded with the philosophy that 'It will be different this time. Our Socialist dreams will be different because WE are in charge?' 7,000 years of human history illuminates the contempt they eventually feel for mankind. It reveals the truth about their desire for the ACA or any other program. It isn't about others; It is about me! A question Doestevsky asked is pertinent, "“Do you despise or respect mankind, you, its coming saviours?” I believe that Democrats and Republicans are made up of people, for the most part, who want to use the power of the government to expunge their guilt for empty living. When you import a solution, as the Democrats and Republicans like to do for their favorite programs, or you are doing something out of showing that you are better than someone (most government programs), it will fail. The free market is the fairest, most desirable system the world has ever known. It allows Christianity to flourish.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    April 11, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Schnee. What you meant to say is Obamacare doesn't care how many millions of Americans lost their healthcare insurance because of Obamacare. Obamacare doesn't care how many millions of Americans are now paying higher premiums, higher co-pays and higher deductibles. The 14% figure that you summarily dismissed is the % of people who were previously UNINSURED who signed up. Do the math! 7 million signed up but less than a million uninsured GOT insured! Wow! If that is success, please explain what failure looks like!

  • Kindred Mesa, AZ
    April 11, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    I think this article brings up some very legitimate issues. While success is a matter of opinion, it is reasonable to question the success of a program that reached its numbers artificially the way this one did. It seems to me that the success of Obamacare program is at the very least still in question. It’s shameful that so many people continue to judge everything a politician does based on whether the politician is part of the correct party or not. We seem to have lost our ability to have a discussion about facts. If there is disagreement, far too many people are willing to label the other side in an attempt to silence their views. We should be willing to judge the performance of our politicians honestly. If it is a mistake, it is a mistake whether republican or democrat. Please stop being so quick to condemn the other side and dismiss the viewpoints of others. Additionally, please also consider that the success of a program is a moot point if we cannot pay for it.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 1:03 p.m.

    "Only in a liberal's mind is 14% a success! "

    Um... Obamacare doesn't care if people who already had insurance use the exchange. That 14% number is completely meaningless in that the Administration doesn't care what percentage it is.

    Want to know a statistic that does matter? The percentage of people who are uninsured. The RAND American Life Panel study estimates that the percentage of people who are uninsured fell from 20.5% to 15.8% (comparing mid-March 2014 to September 2013). It'd be a couple percentage points lower if all states did the Medicaid expansion as the bill intended when passed.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 12:55 p.m.

    [Tells me there is "something rotten in Denmark."]

    You know what's not rotten in Denmark? Their healthcare system.

    Besides, Sebelius is not a tech expert. She's not the one who made the federal rules where contracts have to be awarded to the lowest bidder. That's where the blame should be for the website being absolute garbage in October, with the contractor, and the hiring process used to select such a contractor.

    Romneycare got off to a slow start too, as did Bush's Medicare Part D expansion. These things take time to implement and it's working a lot better now. I'm not going to say Sebelius is perfect, but I find some of the criticisms of her to be over the top.

  • kiddsport Fairview, UT
    April 11, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    It really gets tiring reading the biased complaints of the uninformed who hypocritically claim DN bias. Are they really so naïve they cannot fathom the financial damage already perpetrated by the Unaffordable Care Abuse? How long will they stick their fingers in their ears when scores recount their lost coverage, lost doctors, higher deductibles, higher premiums, higher costs all across the board? That is, except for those underwritten by an extremely inefficient government. The liberal mindset doesn't understand we easily predicted this would happen as surely as B follows A.
    As for the charge the DN is attempting to undermine the "law of the land," let's not forget the dozens of times the president has illegally undermined this fiasco for purely political purposes.
    Hypocrisy, thy name is Liberal.

  • OneWifeOnly San Diego, CA
    April 11, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    "Being able to have your parents pay for your insurance until you are 26 is no big deal to me. Who would want to live with their parents and have them pay your way till you are 26?? I had a career and 2 kids of my own by the time I was 26."

    My Utah Mormon relative has her married

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    April 11, 2014 11:43 a.m.

    Does anyone have the courage to tell the truth? Of the reported 7 million people who signed up, only a small fraction (14%) of those were previously uninsured, the other 6 million+ either had their previous healthcare coverage cancelled by Obamacare or have NOT paid their Obamacare premiums, period! Only in a liberal's mind is 14% a success! Anywhere else, school, business or private lives is 14% considered a success!

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 11:32 a.m.

    Your position on the ACA is one of a long series going back to the 1930's. You have opposed virtually every progressive measure which has made life for little people like me, tolerable. You hated social security at is inception - still do. You oppose medicare, and now you oppose the ACA. It's a sad record, and the fact that you are the primary media outlet for my church makes it even harder to take. But take it I must.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    April 11, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    We haven't begun to see the disaster of the ACA. Remember all those corporate mandates the President has been pushing back behind the November elections. When they hit and multi-millions lose their corporate provided health care, your going to see Rome burn. The Dems in Washington are really going to with the Republicans are in office when it hits so they can pretend it was not them that did it.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    April 11, 2014 11:11 a.m.

    I notice not many of you Big Obamacare supporters are over there on the other story defending the woman who was in charge of this great program, and resigned because of it. What does that tell you? Tells me there is "something rotten in Denmark." You can quote me.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 11, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    I think there will come a day when Democrats look back on Obama with regret. Much as I now regret some of the support I gave Bush when he was in office.

    It won't come while he is in office... that takes too much self-reflection and will to overcome the partisan urge to defend your guy. But once he's gone, and you don't have the knee-jerk response to defend your guy.. it changes, and reality gradually seeps in.

    THEN... we will be able to have a real conversation about this. Much as we now can have a more open and realistic conversation about Afghanistan and Iraq (without the partisan knee-jerk responses we had when the President who did it was in office).

    It takes time...

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 11, 2014 11:07 a.m.

    Most of what I was going to say in response has already been said by others. Despite overwhelming opposition from conservative opponents of the bill, the ACA is working and has reduced the number of uninsured. In fact it mirrors the experience of Massachusetts in its first year. Conservatives will continue to chirp about the ACA because they are afraid they will loose politically as the public notices that the Death Panels never materialized but affordable health care did.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    Of course one must reckon with the fact that Obamacare is being fought hammer and tong by the Deseret News and its allies. Half of the states, including Utah, have refused to participate. Against this backdrop the ACA's success is remarkable.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    When Obama took office there were 46 million uninsured Americans. Now that number is down to about 31 million Americans. I wouldn't call that a disaster. It would be even less but several states didn't expand medicaid.
    Republicans had many years where they could of tried to improve the health care system, but it was never a priority. In the meantime the cost of health insurance doubled when Bush was President and he added an unfunded entitlement (Medicare Rx benefit).

    Give Obama credit for getting something done. The Republicans have been the party of no and complain, but they didn't seem to care about the injustice to the individual marketplace were those with preexisting conditions were denied coverage. They were fine with health care protections and mandates as well as tax benefits for employees of corporations that indivuals and families in the individual market were denied. The ACA gives the responsible Americans the ability to purchase insurance at a marketplace (Republican idea). The subsidies aren't outlandish to help the poor thus many don't sign up. Also the deductables are typically high so people won't overuse healthcare.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    I gotta quit reading these inane op ed pieces. My blood pressure is taking a hit. Um, guess what. Everything is not going to happen overnight. Nor did Obama say it would -- I believe 7 million was the goal for this sign up period. But I guess, in my opinion, having some previously uninsured people covered is better than having NONE, which is apparently, to you, the better course. Lots and lots of sick people who can't get healthcare. Yeah, that's what we should strive for as a society. Unbelievable.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:40 a.m.

    Presidents have "legacy lines." For instance...

    We have nothing to fear, but fear itself. FDR

    Ask not what your country can do for you (like provide health care), ask what you can do for your country. JFK

    I am not a crook. Richard Nixon

    Tear down this wall Mr. Gorbachev. Ronald Reagan

    I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewenski. Bill Clinton

    Well, if things don't change for Obama we already know his legacy line. Say it with me.

    If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. Barack Obama

    Not exactly inspiring like FDR or JFK is it.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 11, 2014 10:39 a.m.

    "I bet the Soviet leaders proclaimed every thing they did a success all the way til the end of the 80's."

    Exactly... since that is what we are talking about here. This is full blown communism..of course they didn't have independent health care insures... or was it through the private sector delivered... or that our doctors are not state employees.... but other than that, it is exactly the same.

    Lets completely ignore the rest of western civilization that uses socialized medicine... that are all doing just fine. That doesn't fit the ceiling is falling narrative here no does it. I mean, Europe, the fact that they have extremely successful economies (UK, Germany, Netherlands, Nordics, etc) and floundering ones (Greece, Spain), and yet they all can offer everyone medical coverage. We surely don't want to learn anything from that, now do we.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 11, 2014 10:34 a.m.

    What were the promises that were made to the CITIZENS before ObamaCare was passed?

    - Each family's health insurance would go DOWN $2,500 per year. (Didn't happen.)

    - We could keep our doctors and other health care providers. (Didn't happen.)

    - We could keep our current policy. (Didn't happen.)

    In addition to those total lies, over 1 million people have lost their health care coverage. Costs have skyrocketed.

    How many people have signed up who didn't have insurance before ObamaCare? How many people have lost their insurance because of ObamaCare?

    What the Deseret News told us is just the tip of the iceberg. ObamaCare is a jumble of contradicting statements. If you want to read a real thriller, read the entire bill. You'll see how one promise after another is removed by later parts of the bill. You'll see how YOUR health and YOUR welfare will be determined by someone like Kathleen Sebelius (who "resigned" from office just this morning).

    We don't have a single payer system (thank the Lord) and now that Obama has ruined health care, it will take a miracle to fix things.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    Obamacare may be success for Obama, but it's certainly not success for the United States of America.

    I bet the Soviet leaders proclaimed every thing they did a success all the way til the end of the 80's.

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    Every independent analysis shows that the actual number of previously uninsured people who now have coverage is around 9.4 million, if you include Medicaid expansion. Those states that have rejected Medicaid money seem prompted to do so by nothing but the pettiest of political motives. The ACA is working, and the conservative response is, ostrich-like, to jam their collective heads ever firmer into the sand. As evidenced by this preposterous editorial.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    April 11, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    2 bits - "Regardless of whether it's a "success" or not. That's pretty irrelevant at this point. It's here and we need to make the best of it."

    And that the real irony of the current ideological intractability and all-or-nothing tactics on the Right.

    Even after a disastrous roll out of the website, in a few short months most observers agree that Obamacare is here to stay. And since it really is a center-right approach to healthcare (with some admittedly left leaning insurance regulations), the smart approach would be to do everything you (conservatives) can to make it work well.

    Perhaps there are some true Machiavellians on the Left who, knowing what the knee-jerk response on the Right would be, bet that this Heritage/Romney would fail due to lack of political will to make it work, and would ultimately lead to the Left’s dream of single-payer.

    Makes one wonder if the Tea Party types are the most practical socialists this country has ever seen.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    From the Article..."To answer “yes,” one has to radically redefine the definition of success."

    This is priceless. Perhaps the DNews would have preferred it if we replaced the phrase 'success' with 'mission accomplished'? The latter phrase never seemed to cause the DNews any grief.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:41 a.m.

    You wanted it to fail. I would hazard that you even worked to make it fail. Except that it really hasn't, I guess it's time to declare it a failure. Sad, really.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    The bottom line: Socialism isn't success no matter how many "successful" programs are trotted out to euthanize Americans into believing that it is success. Individual Liberty is too important to be sacrificed at the alter of the state no matter how altruistic those programs sound. Europe is not worth emulating. America is exceptional for a reason. We know that liberty comes from God and government's power is clearly defined in the Constitution for a reason. It is not God and any attempt to make it so will only subvert and destroy liberty!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    Regardless of whether it's a "success" or not. That's pretty irrelevant at this point. It's here and we need to make the best of it.

    What I'm concerned about is... what's NEXT (IF this fails)...


    I think we need to get ready for nationalized healthcare. The writing is pretty much on the wall.

    Obama himself said that was his ultimate goal (he didn't know he was being recorded, google the video). But admitted he thought that would take 10 years, and he didn't have 10 years... so he had to do this.

    Many in his administration have also stated that their ULTIMATE goal is single-payer (government). So it should not be a total shock to anybody that it's going that way...

    So the sooner this fails.. the sooner we are forced to go to single-payer... IMO...

    My big concern is what that's going to do to the economy and taxes. There's many Americans in the insurance industry... that means a LOT of empty office buildings and unemployment (unless the Government absorbs all those jobs to administer the new government healthcare system).

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    April 11, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    The other day this paper ran an op-ed declaring victory in Afghanistan based on the recent election as its single data point, ignoring almost 13 years of data suggesting otherwise.

    Today the trend of cherrypicking data continues, despite far, far less available data for the ACA implementation and rollout. As messy as it's been, I have far more optimism about our ability to shape it in a way that meets the needs of American citizens than I do about finding meaningful, longterm success in Afghanistan.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:36 a.m.

    Remember kids, Sebelius resigned because Obamacare has been such a raging success, right? Do liberals think we are stupid--wait, of course they do. Obamacare is a success if you define success as radically raising healthcare costs for everyone, jacking up deductibles, premiums, forcing men to get pregnancy coverage, and on and on and on.

    7.1 million signed up for what? 20,000 a year deductibles, on an 800 a month premium? That's morally unconscionable. Yet the liberals think it's great! "Why is America mad at us? We've only forced them to buy insurance that sucks royally? WE meant well! Obama, make the mean people stop being mean--they should like their new premiums and deductibles!"

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 11, 2014 9:32 a.m.

    Imagine our collective shock.... Deseret News doesn't like the affordable care act. This and other ground shaking news at 10 pm.

    I was worried the DN was slacking of in their ever present barrage and pandering to its reader base. Heaven forbid it should carry other news happening in the world. Without ACA and Gay Marriage, the DN wouldn't have much to write about.

  • Gandalf Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:29 a.m.

    The Des News damages its credibility tremendously when its editorial board so mindlessly engages in Obama bashing. To discuss problems with the scope of coverage of the ACA without every breathing a whisper of the 25 or so states controlled by Republicans that have rejected Medicaid expansion for no good reason is to show a partisan ideology that is very troubling. Facts matter Des News editors. And the fact is, there are no good reasons for any state to refuse to opt in to Medicaid expansion. To do that is to engage in a war on the poor.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 11, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    Tyler D,
    I think I'm a "Conservative". And I don't want people to be uninsured. That costs me and everybody more (in charity care).

    I wish EVERYBODY was insured (just not necessarily by the government at tax payer expense).


    I think we need to do something about the COST of healthcare, for everybody, not just for the poor. The ACA did nothing for that, never even tried. The ACA just focused on finding somebody else to pay for it... usual for big government solutions...

  • Outside-View Federal Way, WA
    April 11, 2014 9:13 a.m.

    Lets be clear that "signing up for coverage" in only the most basic of steps toward a successful health plan. Since the ability and effort to sign people up has been this troublesome one has to fear and wonder how the actual coverage will be. Will bills be paid? Will you not get even part of what you are expecting coverage and price wise? Then, of course, what happens to the cost 1-3 years down the road.

    This is certainly an effort to show that the goverment is already paying for such a large percentage of people either by medicare, medicaid, and ever expanding "underprivileged", plus giving people a choice really has not worked and is proving to be less efficient, so why not just provide medicare for everyone from beginning to end? That is the goal.

    Again, signing up was the easiest part of this project. Now what will happen?

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    Great editorial, well reasoned and factual.

    Absolutely absurd and pathetic criticism from readers blinded by the rainbow and unicorn fantasies repeatedly told by the Obama administration and its allies.

    Any good coming from forcing 7 million people to sign up for new policies (even if they are not paid for), or adding them to the unfunded liability of Medicaid (health welfare) are offset by the millions of people forced off their old policies they liked and were untruthfully told they could keep.

    The utter failure of this law is proven by the fact that the Obamacare being implemented is not that which was passed and signed into law, but is some seat of the pants scheme illegally modified over and over by Obama to hide the law's flaws and deflect criticism.

    He has indeed fundamentally changed our healthcare system, not just the insurance portion but the delivery portion (where NO ONE was denied treatment, even without any insurance) so that now everyone's treatment will be less quality, cost more, and be harder to get.

    The only thing Obama has done with the ACA is move us closer to single payer socialized medicine...and bankruptcy.

  • factsplease SLO, CA
    April 11, 2014 8:54 a.m.

    Here, I'll do DN's job and supply some data from the study.

    The Rand study was done in March, before the deadline.

    The Rand study reports:
    Enrollment in employer sponsored insurance increased by 8.2 million, most of this was due to people who were previously uninsured.
    Medicaid enrollment increased by 5.9 million.
    3.9 million are covered by state and federal marketplaces.

    Of those who were previously uninsured:
    7.2 million gained employer based insurance
    3.6 million gained insurance through Medicaid
    1.4 million gained insurance through the marketplace.

    The uninsured rate dropped from 20.5% to 15.8%
    Less than 1% of people who previously had individual market insurance became uninsured.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    April 11, 2014 8:48 a.m.

    Obamacare is not a success by the standards of either liberals or conservatives.

    For liberals, it has not yet and may never achieve universal coverage.

    For conservatives, who knowingly and unknowingly support healthcare policies that all but guarantee an ever shrinking pool of insured Americans, any increase in the number of insured is a failure.

    Obamacare – the great cyborg-like compromise between the Heritage Foundation created endoskeleton that is the individual mandate (albeit with very weak enforcement penalties) and market exchanges; and the external living tissue of liberal mandates on basic insurance standards of coverage – is working exactly how it was designed to… slow, clunky, and not very efficient.

    But it’s the best we could do given the only politicians we seem to be electing these days are named either Hatfield or McCoy.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    April 11, 2014 8:48 a.m.

    It’s been obvious all along that opponents of the Affordable Care Act are tactically masking their desire to see it fail. Privately, they are quaking and trembling in that it will succeed in the long run.

    The 7.1 million signed up was just a goal the Administration set and then met, much to the chagrin of the most determined opponents. It's far from being a final hurdle that's been cleared but it is an encouraging indicator that the ACA is moving forward.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    April 11, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    What is so awful about an insurance mandate?

    People should have insurance, unless they happen to have "Bill Gates money". How does health care get paid for anyway? Does everyone, or for the matter, a significant majority of those without insurance, have the kind of ready cash to pay for heart surgery? Who pays the bill when a person runs up a hospital tab, and can not pay? And don't a significant number of people annually declare bankruptcy because of health bills? Who pays that tab?

    Health care does not come free to anyone, yet we mandate that a sick person must be tended. The medical community does nothing for free, someone always pays the tab. Unless we have a system which requires medical insurance or a government sponsored program for all (we like Medicare don't we?), then those who do have insurance or do have "Bill Gates money" will be paying for those who can not afford or obtain insurance.

    We should be tired of medical freeloaders. Everyone should either have insurance or the money to pay for their own care, or we have a nationwide system of guaranteed healthcare paid for via taxes.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    So we get 7 million Americans to sign up for ObamaCare... and we're told on the news that's a BIG number.

    But we have over 11 million illegal immigrants in the US (and growing daily)... and we're told that's not a problem because it's just a small number.

    If even HALF of the illegal immigrant population signed up... it would be 6 million!


    86% of the people who signed up had insurance before ObamaCare, and just moved from the people paying for private insurance and contributing to the American economy... to government dependency.

    I call that a mitigated success...


    IMO the pre-existing conditions thing was a good thing.

    Being able to have your parents pay for your insurance until you are 26 is no big deal to me. Who would want to live with their parents and have them pay your way till you are 26?? I had a career and 2 kids of my own by the time I was 26.


    I still think ACA was never intended to be a "success".

    It was intended to make us so miserable we would be happy with what's to come next...

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:24 a.m.

    Our state is a sad example how Republican "leadership" put over 57,000 poor Utah citizens at risk by not expanding Medicaid. It defies logic. Also watching our government shut down by Ted Cruz and Mike Lee was horrible, and devastating to many millions of families financially.

    Also the Deseret New has got to slow down the daily axes to grind against our duly elected President. It is so refreshing to pull up the Salt Lake Tribune and see that they are not attacking our president every day You need to step up to a journalistic level to a standard that shows both sides.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    April 11, 2014 8:23 a.m.

    Why are some people so eager to believe all the lies we were and are still being told about Obamacare? Of the 7 million people who signed up only a small fraction have actually PAID into the system! That's not a success, its a total failure! Do you know what happens to any business where "customers" do not pay?

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    By the way: what, exactly, do they mean when they say "enrolled"? Last I'd heard, they were counting anyone who had put a plan in their cart as enrolled, despite never moving on to checkout.

    So maybe under that definition, they had "success." But under any other definition of enrolled, like actually, you know, made a binding agreement and put in their payment info--what's the real story?

    Because, heaven knows, Obama's a paragon of truth telling, right?

  • JimInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    The big chink in the ACA armor is that this program relies upon the young and healthy to opt in to offset the medical costs of the sick and elderly. The problem is that the young and healthy are strapped with student loan debt. Hmm which to pay?

    The ACA program was not designed to help the uninsured, it was designed to get money for a financially broke government in the form of fees, defined by the SCOTUS as taxes. Ever wonder why the IRS is monitoring who has coverage?

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:16 a.m.

    Wow. What a surprise.

    A right wing propaganda website produces anti-Obamacare rhetoric.

    I wish the Dnews would go back to being a news outlet. Sure, they can have a conservative bias. That's fine. But this propaganda that they put out does nothing to inform or enlighten.

    Then again, what can we expect from an agency that recently defended Swallow? Thank goodness the tribune actually did some reporting and got that criminal out of office!

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:15 a.m.

    Almost anything Obamacare results in will be better than the current system that has allowed:
    - excluding people with pre-existing conditions from coverage
    - cancellation of coverage for covered people who develop a serious illness
    - out of control fees by hospitals and doctors which are now unaffordable for families and business with no plan in sight by the private market to correct this
    - no realistic GOP plan in sight
    - a healthcare system that is breaking the financial back of America

    So at least Obamacare is a start to address these issues - albeit far from perfect. We need to do better - so let hear what the GOP or anyone else has in mind

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:14 a.m.

    Every independent analysis shows that the actual number of previously uninsured people who now have coverage is around 9.4 million, if you include Medicaid expansion. Those states that have rejected Medicaid money seem prompted to do so by nothing but the pettiest of political motives. The ACA is working, and the conservative response is, ostrich-like, to jam their collective heads ever firmer into the sand. As evidenced by this preposterous editorial.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:05 a.m.

    Lets shut down government again, cancel all the 7,000,000 plus new persons in the healthcare system, shut down medicare and social security. That plus losing another ten years of elections may make the point.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:04 a.m.

    "(the Obama administration never claimed it'd get everyone insured)." Who knows, but, let me be clear. Obama did make that claim 30+ times. The 7 million signs ups are offset by the 5 million that have lost their insurance.

    I suppose you can claim tax collection is a success, since most Americans by law are forced to pay their taxes every year. Which we all know obamacare is a tax. Because that is the only way it could be put into law after going through the supreme court. Have you forgotten about that? Obama cannot force people to buy a product, but, he can tax people into submission. And we know what a success story taxes are.

    Either way, time will tell. If the system works out and everyone is happy, great. He'll have one achievement for his 8 years in office. If it fails, then it's all of us that will be hurting. Let me be clear, the rich will come out of this just fine. Buffett, Clintons, Reid, Pelosi, obamas, gates.....wait all democrats! Unless they get caught in affairs, fraud....oh wait they all have already.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 11, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    In the media frenzy where we're fed nothing but the Administrations garbage, it's refreshing to read an editorial that gives facts about ObamaCare. That program is an absolute failure. Next year, when people have to pay the penalty for being uninsured this year, they will finally see what kind of ponzi scheme ObamaCare really is. Young people think that they're invincible. ObamaCare doesn't matter to them. They will pay the (minor) fine rather than buy something that they think that they don't need. That's what being an American means, having the RIGHT to NOT buy government required insurance. That requirement is not in the Constitution. The Court refused to rule on the Constitutionality of ObamaCare, but they called it a TAX. They didn't rule on the constitutionality of that tax.

    The Deseret News is to be complemented on telling its readers that ObamaCare is not the "success" claimed by the Administration.

  • Ltrain St. George, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    Two things to remember for all of you folks that are defending the indefensible.

    1) This magic 7 million number is a number that was set by the Obama administration as a benchmark of success) They obviously didn't set the bar very high.

    2) Half of the 7 million are people that were kicked off their insurance and forced to get insurance through the exchanges.

    This is a dismal failure, and anyone with any objectivity can plainly see the numbers this administration uses are "cooked" to help their cause.

  • Ltrain St. George, UT
    April 11, 2014 7:46 a.m.

    The "Deniers" making up excuses for obama all day, every day.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    April 11, 2014 7:36 a.m.

    Schnee makes a good point.

    It's entirely disingenuous for the D-News to be laying less-than-full enrollment figures at Obama's feet while states like Utah have opted to leave many, many people with no coverage. Talk about a set up...

    The double-standard is nauseating, kind of like Utahns complaining that Utah's large class sizes are not its fault, that school children demographics are unalterable, and then claiming victory because Utah gets it's tax freedom day four days before other states. (Just be honest and admit education is not a priority. The candor would be refreshing.)

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    April 11, 2014 7:34 a.m.

    McKinsey Research: "Only 14% of Obamacare exchange sign-ups are previously uninsured enrollees". That's less than 1 million previously uninsured who now have health insurance and at what cost? It would have been far less expensive to just write them a check and avoid all the lies, the wasted money and all the damage done to our healthcare system. November can't come soon enough!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    April 11, 2014 7:26 a.m.

    So the attitude the DN is displaying here is that regardless of what the ACA accomplishes we will be able to find some set of numbers or previous statements to prove it is not successful.

    After all we went out on the Republican limb and declared it an abomination before it ever started and without any kind of reasonable alternative. Why stop now?

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    April 11, 2014 7:21 a.m.

    Here we go again, the DN taking only part of the story to support their own opinion. No where in the article does it mention the millions of others who got coverage because of the ACA. Several million more were covered when children were allowed to stay on their parents policy until 26. Several more million were covered through Medicare and more were covered under other state policies that did not roll up under healthcare.gov. The ACA has brought new, better coverage to many more than the 7.1 million you chide.
    I read the DN to gain an understanding of how others look upon the world. What I often find is shallow reporting and extreme bias. Come on DN, we want news, not satire. Give us the truth, the whole truth and let us make up our own opinion.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 11, 2014 7:04 a.m.

    I am disappointed that the Deseret News continues its efforts to undermine the law of the land. It is sad that you have gotten on board the right wing express in its effort to subvert an effort to get more people on health insurance, lowering costs for the rest of us and reducing the number of bankruptcies and other problems because people, for whatever reason, do not have health insurance. The ACA is a process. It will not have instant universal application. Efforts like your ongoing subversions have caused many to not comply with the law, so it will take longer than hoped to get more people covered. I would suggest you go back and review the 12th Article of Faith. You are not adhering to your own beliefs. The bottom line is you and your right wingers have offered nothing of serious substance as an alternative. You have not offered anything to tweak the law. All I see is whining and complaining, and a failure to be law abiding voices in the public discourse. Shame on you. I expected better.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 11, 2014 6:46 a.m.

    “7.1 million people signed up for coverage prior to April 1. Does that constitute a genuine ‘success story?’

    To answer ‘yes,’ one has to radically redefine the definition of success.”

    WRONG. To answer “yes,” one only has to know and accept the definition of success.

    Achieving one’s goal IS success. And the Obama administration achieved its goal of signing up 7 million people by April 1st.

    And that’s just one success. Plenty of other successes lie ahead for the Obamacare.

    Right Wingers can fret and fume, lie and deny, and attempt to redefine our language, but that doesn’t change reality.

    You might as well get used to seeing a string of successes for Obamacare AND America.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    April 11, 2014 6:44 a.m.

    Remember when Bill Clinton was saying "it depends on what the meaning of what "is" is?:

    Conservatives have gone from predicting that Oabamacare would lead to a "healthcare death spiral" to arguing about "the definition of success". Now that 7 million people have signed up, and no death spiral has occurred, the right will just keep moving the bar.

    When you have to start parsing the exact wording of an argument you are in big trouble.

  • David King Layton, UT
    April 11, 2014 6:44 a.m.

    Anyone who wants to champion the success of the Affordable Care Act has to recognize one sobering fact: Its most controversial feature, the individual mandate, has not even taken full effect.

    When those millions of still uninsured Americans (who the law was supposed to help) start getting fined ..er, sorry, taxed for their poverty and their unwillingness to have other Americans subsidize them, then you can return and we can have a conversation about whether or not the law is a success.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    April 11, 2014 6:40 a.m.

    Bravo Deseret News

    I've been pointing that fact out for months now and have felt like a voice in the wilderness. Yes, Obamacare ACA is a complete sham. It was sold to the gullible Americans on helping out the 40 million uninsured, (most of whom were just between jobs or living in their parents basements.) Truth is, the Democrats never really had that goal in mind. What they wanted was to begin the country down the road toward a Single Payer system. Or socialized health care. Obama has been recorded as saying that very thing in the past, that we couldn't change it to a single payer system in one step, but that it would take incremental changes. His is the first really big move toward that. So, now that we can all see what ACA was about, we can argue the merits of MANY providers for health care, or ONE. ONE being the Big Brother, Sister, Mother, Father, and Uncle Government. For me, I'll take the private sector over bureaucratic medicine.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 11, 2014 6:26 a.m.

    The Deseret News: Printing Anti-Obama, all day, every day.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 5:13 a.m.

    "Republican leadership"

    Now there's something that really "doesn't hold up to scrutiny".

    Bring on 2016!

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 1:51 a.m.

    "The stated purpose of the Affordable Care Act was to provide coverage for all Americans, over 40 million of whom, by most estimates, have no health insurance. The 7.1 million signups constitute less than one-fifth of that number. In academic terms, a score less than 20 percent is clearly a failing grade."

    First off... the mandate has an opt-out provision/tax so you can't get everyone covered without single payer (the Obama administration never claimed it'd get everyone insured).

    Secondly, there's a lot of those millenials who do have insurance because of staying on their parents plan until they're 26, otherwise a fair number of them would be insured.

    Most importantly, you forget all the people who got health insurance from the Medicaid expansion... and then the 5 million more who would've gotten health insurance from the Medicaid expansion... except Republican governors decided against doing the expansion so that's hardly Obama's fault.