To "OtisBDriftwood" don't confuse spin with fact. According to the
Historical Tables for FY14, the closest that we came to a surplus was in 2000,
when the deficit was just under $23 Billion.Plus, the projections
for a surplus were made in 1998 and assumed constant growth in the economy. The
assumptions were killed in 2000 when the US entered a recession.Actually, under Obama,the defict has averaged 300% of Bush's average
deficit. I would consider that an increase. Current projections put Obama at
doubling the debt, that means that he will have added 4 times as much debt that
Bush did.I don't excuse Bush for his mistakes, but I also
recognize that Obama is leading the US to destruction at a much faster rate.
Gary O; I remember after the first election of Pres. Obama, he said that the
republicans could come along for the ride, but had to sit in the back. An
interesting concept. Also, when the democrats (Nancy Pelosi) said "we would
have to pass it to see what was in it." makes a lot of sense. maybe POTUS
Obama really didn't want or allow any republican input to his signature
health care bill. maybe that why over 5 years after it has become law,
he's still trying to sell it to the citizens of the United States.
To "GaryO" and what has Obama to change anything? Is the economy better
or worse than during Bush's Presidency? Is unemployment greater or less
than during Bush's time as president? Is the Labor Participation rate up
or down? How about the yearly deficit, is it greater or less than Bush's
average deficit?FYI, we haven't had a budget suplus sine the
1950's. We have run deficits for nearly 60 consecutive years.We get it that you love Obama. But what has he done differently than Bush?
The only differences that I have seen is the magnitude and cost for Obama's
programs. Obama's programs tend to cost more than for Bush.To
"LDS Liberal" are you saying that you would rather vote for somebody of
low moral character as long as they implemented their socialist adgenda?
Utah Republicans will continue to use the red herrings of SSM and abortion --
which Republicans will NEVER change [They can't, they need it. 4-
years later -- It's their only ace held under the table, and they only pull
it out and use it during elections].Meanwhile -- They will
continue to blindly support such High moral characters --Senators who
don't make their house payments, andAGs who sell out their
office for money.Simply because they have an R's and not a
D's next to their names.
Hey porcurdorkisal - . . . "slavishly hewing to what has become
the the evil, corrupt party line of the President, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi,
George Soros, and the Clintons?!"Was I doing that? I
didn't think that was even possible.After all it was Bill
Clinton who left GW Bush and his Republican cronies a nation at peace, with a
good economy, strong international allies, and a recent history of several
consecutive budget surpluses . . . And Republican leadership DESTROYED it all
in 8 short years.I agree that we have battle of good an evil going
on here. And there's nothing good about Republican greed,
arrogance, irresponsibility, pretense, and a tradition of very, very bad
OtisPres. Benson is not who made abortion, SSM, and the suppression of
religious rights the main planks of the dem party.Forcing the CEO of
a major corporation out because he supported traditional marriage is not
hate?Boycotting a fast-food chain because its owner supports
traditional marriage is not hate?Destroying the livelihoods of
religious business owners because they don’t support your lifestyle is not
hate? Who are the real haters? LDS libRight to choose comes
with the responsibilities for those actions – something liberals ALWAYS
ignore. I think you’ll be hard pressed to find an LDS position supporting
abortion because of inconvenience or the gender of the unborn as dems always
insist upon. Didn’t one of the apostles over the weekend speak up for the
rights of the unborn? Does the right to choose trump the rights of the
unborn?Being FORCED to do right is an NOT LDS value – we all
know who was behind that proposition!
As long as the dems = abortion, SSM, and suppression of religious rights in
favor of gay “rights”, they will lose in UtahMarxist,BO furthered the gutting of SS by cutting its revenues in a vote-buying
effort. He also took money from it to pay for Obamacare. He refuses to do what
Reagan did with O’Neal and reach across the aisle to extend its life.
What the Koch brothers are doing is irrelevant, they hold no elected office.The ongoing destruction of the middle class is the result of dem
policiesHoward Beal,Look beyond abortion and SSM? If a
mathematician tells you 2+2=7, are you going to believe what he says about
higher math? Until they get the basics right, we cannot trust them on anything
else.GaryOBO may have SAID he wanted GOP input, but when has
he ever told the truth? His statement was pure political posturing. Nancy
would not allow their participation anyway, other than to vote for it. Please
stop trying to revise history.
It seems strange that so many of the comments here are expressing opposition to
Same Sex Marriage, abortion, and immigration policy. The article is about the
state democratic party; these are issues that are being decided in national
policy and national court decisions.
Re: "I actually don't espouse . . . any of those things . . . ."Good for you!So, extrapolating from your comment
["we" had Frank Moss and Gunn McKay, "they" are the party of
hate] you're in the same boat with me -- a Democrat engaged in a thus far
vain search for Utah and national Democrat candidates that aren't cynical,
bought-and-paid-for DNC apparatchiks.You and I apparently share a
Diogenes-like quest for Democrats who can think for themselves and who can be
counted on to do what's best for the Nation and the people whose votes they
seek, rather than slavishly hewing to what has become the the evil, corrupt
party line of the President, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, George Soros, and the
Clintons.I'll keep looking. Hope you will, too.If
you find one, let me know, Bro.
Cleaner Air, Quality Education, Immigration Reform, Welfare,
Free Agency - Right to Choose, etc.You know -- Things consistant with LDS values, and things completely over-looked or
intentionally ignored by Republicans.
Hey Counter Intelligence – No revisionist history on my end. Just truth
here. And the truth is that Obama very much wanted an ACA with bilateral input,
but he was refused.As the ACA was being designed, Obama said "I
want to consult closely with our Republican colleagues . . . What I want to do
is to ask them to put their ideas on the table. . . . I want to come back and
have a large meeting, Republicans and Democrats, to go through, systematically,
all the best ideas that are out there and move it forward."But
the Republicans, as a body, refused him. They were not about to let this upstart
new Democratic President be the transitional leader he wanted to be. The Repubs
said "NO," and insisted that the bill be trashed.Republican
legislators who refuse to legislate or participate in legislation are obviously
HORRIBLE representatives of their constituents.With those
proclivities evident in Republican politicians, I can’t understand why any
sane person would EVER vote for Republican representation . . . Unless
masochism and a craving for defeat are Republican "values."
Re: "My whole beef with the GOP is that they preach fiscal responsibility,
but they're far from being fiscally responsible. They are the party of hate
. . . ."Interesting comment from one who apparently espouses
those mandatory liberal Democrat sacraments of abortion; snarky secularism;
disingenuous political revisionism; callow narcissism; insistent, but whacky,
unsustainable environmentalism; and the embracing of corrupt, destructive,
vote-buying giveaways and handouts, combined with dangerous, classist division
and discrimination as the highest forms of American political intercourse.
Let me be the one to make clear statement that explains why the Democrats
don't get more votes here in Utah.The Democrats have values and
ideals that do not correlate to the majority of Utah. The problem isn't
getting your message out, it is the message that you have.If
Democrats want to win more elections in Utah they need to become socially and
fiscally conservative. If they do that, they would win.
Until the Democrats return to being the party that JFK knew, and not the party
of George Soros, Big Government, income re-distribution, and the do anything you
want lobby, I wouldn't vote for a Democrat for Dog Catcher.
This comment board has been very enlightening, I hope that that Corroon reads
these. I think I can identify with many of the people on this board, I am not
represented well by the tea party, nor am I represented well by the democrats.
When the National democratic party paints a picture of religious people being
the problem in America I have a hard time supporting their candidates locally,
but on the other hand the tea party does not support education or the
environment like I think they should. I am not left with many options.
Judge [email protected] Dabakis have been so strident& out of touch to the
mainstream of Utah theyhave endangered the Democrat party. Nationally
thesenate is swinging Republican. Obama, Valerie Jareth& the
Hollywood writers will not save Demsthis year.
Re: ". . . "Americans for Prosperity" not only wants to end
Obamacare, they want to end social security and medicare too. This should give
Utah Democrats a potent issue . . . ."It might, indeed, if there
were a shred of truth to that assertion.
Re: arand "you soon forget that the ACA is what took money from Medicare
to make their plan try and work. Not that it ever will work, but it still took
the money. " True. But remember the Koch funded "Americans for
Prosperity" not only wants to end Obamacare, they want to end social
security and medicare too. This should give Utah Democrats a potent issue,
provided they can convince Utah seniors that their physical survival is as
important as SSM.
In reply to Marxist in above comment,-- you soon forget that the ACA is what
took money from Medicare to make their plan try and work. Not that it ever will
work, but it still took the money. They don't actually say take, the just
say "divert". Sounds better that way.
GaryO,The republicans, including several who are doctors, tried
repeatedly to work with Obama on the ACA. He would not even respond to them.Democrats have a hard sell. The can push education, which is popular
with many in Utah, buy most folks here are smart enough to know that it comes
with the abortion, gas marriage, extremist environmentalist baggage. You can
try and put a pretty face on it but voting for a Democrat is ultimately voting
for abortion, gay marriage and extremist environmentalism.Howard,Abortion effects me every time an unborn child of my Heavenly Father is
flushed down a sink. Do you really think that Jesup thinks it is OK to kill a
child because they might be inconvenient?
@GaryO "Much of the brouhaha with the Affordable Care Act could
have been avoided if Republican Congressmen had actually done their jobs and
provided some input into the ACA."ROFLnice
Its a narrow tightrope those Utah Democrats have to walk, nearly every plank of
the national platform goes against the LDS perspective, so to be a Utah Democrat
leads the party in an anti-mormon direction, which is rather off-putting to 70%
of the population. Until the Utah Democrats can divorce themselves from the
radical national platform it will be hard to get any traction here.
Re: "Will Utah Democrats' focus shift to 'bread-and-butter'
issues?"Not a chance.The national Party is stuck on
"bread-and-circus" issues, and state Party apparatchiks are simply too
beholden to the vote-buying DNC to think for themselves and do what's best
"In order for the Democratic Party to win, most voters — and we know
most are LDS voters — need to feel comfortable again that the Democratic
Party expresses their values . . . "Is keeping promises a Utah
value? Is hard work a Utah value. Republican representatives in the US Congress
have promised to represent Utahns, but is that really happening?Much
of the brouhaha with the Affordable Care Act could have been avoided if
Republican Congressmen had actually done their jobs and provided some input into
the ACA. Obama invited them to provide input and help design the bill. But
Republican as a whole chose to snub Obama, and they refused to participate.As a result, the contents of the ACA contains very little input from
Republicans. Your Congressmen refused to represent YOU in Congress. Utah Democratic Congressmen would be willing to actually WORK in Congress to
get the job done and ensure that Utahns are represented.Why would
anyone want to vote for Republicans with a history of NOT representing Utahns,
when Democratic candidates are eager to work hard for Utah?
It might be a good idea for Utah Republicans to see beyond gay marriage and
abortion, which probably doesn't effect too many in their circle, and
concentrate more on the education of their own children and why the Utah GOP
seems so intent on its destruction.
The ongoing destruction of the middle class is potentially a potent issue for
Democrats. But they have to have a much better theoretical understanding of
what is going on, than they do at present. They will need an understanding of
Marx. But the prospect of having anything to do with such scares them to
death.That being the case, maybe Democrats should just fold up and
leave the field to a resurgent socialist party. It was the socialist parties of
the 1930's which gave Democrats some spine.
I will be more comfortable with the Democratic party when:Their
concept of "diversity" includes the Boy Scouts, Hobby Lobby and Chick
Fil-A;Their concept of "inclusiveness" includes the unborn;Their concept of human rights includes religious liberty and the right to
life, andtheir concept of freedom of conscience includes people who
decline to participate in a same-sex marriage.
Jim Dabakis did a great job - he expressed what many Democrats feel about
issues, he was irreverent, and funny. Many Republicans who disagreed with him on
the issues liked him as well. It will be interesting if having a middle of the
road Democrat actually improves voter turnout for Democrats.
If Democrats would focus on public education, economic advances (tax cuts),
jobs, fair wages, infrastructure...they would win. Instead they focus on gay
marriage, locking up the public lands, illegal immigration....those are losers
I agree with Upson Downs but I am equally turned off with the Republicans.
I'm glad to see the changes in the Democratic Party but I still prefer a
system where the individual and not the Party is most important. The two party
system is not serving us well and we should look at alternatives such as the
Marxist, the great threat to Medicare and Social Security is simple arithmetic,
not the tea partiers or the Republican Party. Those latter groups are merely
pointing out that mathematically the choice is dramatic restructuring now versus
total collapse later.
I think Mr. Corroon is mistaken in his analysis of the issues Utah voters are
supporting. He says that he thinks Utah voters are pushing for the same things
as Utah Democrats. That may be true for a couple of issues such as education
and air quality. But I think he lessens the importance to Utah voters of higher
profile issues such as abortion, same sex marriage, and limiting religious
freedom over gay issues. Speaking only for myself, I would not vote for any
Democrat, Mormon or non-Mormon as long as their national party platform contains
support for abortion, same sex marriage, and limiting religious freedoms. Utah
Democrats may be good honest people, but the platform they support, will not win
The Democrats will fail to gain inroads into the LDS community for several more
years at least. I am an LDS Democrat. I want a stronger emphasis on education.
I want greater protection of the environment. I want a rational immigration
policy. I believe that healthcare is still an important issue. But
the Democratic Party has been taken over by radicals who believe that abortion
is permissible in practically every instance, that SSM is an absolute right,
that gay rights trump religious liberties, that gun ownership is a crime. I
can't turn to the Tea Party-dominated Republican Party. I KNOW I'm
not one of them. But I no longer feel at home in the Democratic party. Is there
a political home out there for me?
McAdams, Davis, and others like them simply need to start another party.With the damage done to the Democratic brand nationally by its attitudes
since the party's "hard left turn" under Nancy Pelosi, and with the
state party having lost all credibility regarding representing everyday Utahns
under Dabakis, trying to get Utahns to vote Democrat again is just not a smart
idea.There are plenty of people in this state who care more about
education, the environment, etc than the state Republican party insiders do, and
who are poorly represented by our legislators. But they don't want to be
associated with what the Democratic Party has become. Start a third party
It was interesting, last month, to hear Jim Dabakis crowing about how he
*almost* got a prominent LDS leader (presumably emeritus Elder Marlin Jensen) to
run on the Democratic ticket and taking that as an example of the Utah
Democratic Party's increased appeal to Mormons.Uh . . . Jim . .
. the question Utahns need to ask isn't why Jensen was *almost* willing to
hitch his horse to your wagon. The question is why--in the end--he
wouldn't do it.
As an LDS Republican that has crossed party lines to vote for Democratic
candidates for governor & legislators, I have felt repulsed by Dubakis'
"in-your-face" liberal style. Locally I can support Democrats because I
feel education needs improvement & the GOP seems most interested in
attacking education rather than solving education problems. But with Dubakis as
the face of the state Dem party (party chair) I have been pushed fully into the
GOP.Nationally I cannot support a Democrat. They are so aligned
with the radical liberal, progressive leaders of Pelosi, Reid & Obama. My
understanding of LDS doctrine & US history is offended by the attacks on the
family, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, & fiscal insanity that is
the Democratic party.
There's going to be an opening for Utah Democrats if the Tea Party wing of
the GOP pushes the destruction of social security and medicare. Many, many, LDS
seniors are dependent on these programs. It's a matter of life and death
for them. So the future for Democrats in Utah in large part depends upon how
heartless the GOP becomes towards seniors (hint: they are poised to be very
‘Will Utah Democrats' focus shift to 'bread-and-butter'
issues?’Nope. They'll continue to whine and moan about
social fairness, increasing welfare payments, gun control and how the Dear
Leader is so wonderful.