BYU football: Bronco says bowl loss to Washington has given Cougars an added sense of urgency

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  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 6, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    Nav Vet:
    Obviously we're talking to different fans. Rivals has been the preference and the standard in years past, just like I said. But many fans I talk to are losing faith in it because of how they've changed some of their metrics. Again, I didn't make it up, that's what they've said, not just me. Like I said doesn't matter in the end because of what lets roll said,and I agree, neither Utah or BYU are winning recruiting battles with the top 40 programs in the country. Until either one does they will continue to struggle in their respective circumstances.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    April 5, 2014 8:05 p.m.

    All the ink spilled over recruiting...the one factoid that resonates is that NEITHER the Y or the U has been in the top 40 in recruiting.

    All the talk at both schools about the programs getting to the next level seems a bit of a stretch when you look at the recruiting classes, and not just over the last year or two.

    Both schools, I believe, will continue to struggle with their respective challenges. The U will struggle to be relevant in the PAC-12 where they are at or near the bottom in recruiting and trending downward in recruiting--especially now that USC is off probation and Mora has brought stability to UCLA.

    The Y will continue to struggle to put together schedules that will keep the fan base enthused and the players motivated over the entire season.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 5, 2014 3:56 p.m.


    I didn't see any search engine requirements for your assertion that Rivals isn't the best "recruiting services" site, yet you insist that I show you the SECtalk? That seems hypocritical of you.

    Just put this quote in your search engine (including punctuation and spelling errors) and click the first SECtalk link:

    "Over the years all of my fellow football players,fans,and gurus alike have had this debate with someone on the job,or friends, fans of the opposing shool fanatics. Who has the most accurate player rankings? Is it Rivals, Scout , or ESPN ? I know there is no gauranteed way to determine this,but if you look at the years past you can look at the different rankings and go back and according to how they acheived you can come up with a ranking for the actual recruiting service."

    And you DID make up the SEC thing. I know a lot of sports fans too (BigTen, ACC, SEC, Big12, Pac-12)...

    ...and they prefer Rivals.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 4, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    Navy Vet:
    Yes I wish DN allowed URLs because there are multiple articles and sites that have been very critical of Rivals....but like you said, you have all the tools to look it up. I would also be interested in the SECtalk you're addressing because I haven't seen it. I didn't make up the SEC thing...I talk to a lot of SEC fans (I travel to GA & LA every month). Rivals used to be the standard but everything I hear now is dislike with how they increase stars on what programs are going after a kid, how over or under hype a player based on scouting reports rather than actual production on the field, etc. It's hearsay so take it or leave it, doesn't matter. I won't use them so I guess it's no deal eh?

    As for avg stars vs ranking, a team might not need 25 recruits so rankings based on number of recruits isn't really a fair analysis is it? Would it be fair if BYU averaged 2.5 stars but recruited 29 players so they were ranked higher than Utah who only recruited/needed 20 players but averaged 2.8 stars?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 4, 2014 1:01 p.m.


    "I will make a wager with you and Chris that BYUs avg stars will be better again this year than Utah's (not rival ranking). No posts for a month if I'm wrong, same for you two if I'm right. Deal?"

    If BOTH of us agree, and you lose, you're off for 2 months. If Chris does NOT agree, you're only off for one.

    Also, we are not wagering "average stars". We're wagering "Rivals ranking". That makes more sense. Think about it. If Utah signs only one athlete, and it's a 5-star kid, Utah's "average stars" would be 5.0. If the Y signed 20 kids -- all of whom were all 4-star athletes -- their "average stars" would be 4.0. So who had the better recruiting class? The U -- who would have "averaged" 5-stars? Or the Y's lower star average of 4.0?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 4, 2014 12:56 p.m.


    "rivals has become a joke when evaluating recruiting talent and rankings."

    Rivals had been rated as the most accurate "recruiting" rater for college football, so you'll have to agree to use Rivals. 24/7 and ESPN are too new to the "recruiting" business to have established themselves over Rivals. Thomas Goldkamp Media did an indepth analysis about 4-yrs ago and found that Rivals graded higher than Scout, and that Scout graded higher than ESPN (re: "Which recruiting service is best?"). The DNews does not permit URLs, but you have all the Google search engine requirements in this text.

    "SEC fans (I'm one of them) have already written rivals off because they don't do their job very well in terms of how good players end up being."

    Nope. You made that up. SECtalk had a discussion board about this a while back, and the consensus over there is Rivals is the preferred source.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 3, 2014 6:06 p.m.

    Just a quick FYI, ESPN has never had Utah or BYU in the top 40 for the years you're referencing. Forgive me if I, and many other CFB fans, trust them and the experts on their payroll more than rivals. For the deal I mentioned above we will be using ESPN, not the hacks at rivals, if that's ok with you guys. You might as well go with SB Nation or Bleacher Report for your recruiting rankings if you trust rivals. And hey, ESPN was much kinder in their ranking for U this year (64th) than rivals (BYU was only 62nd). Rankings go by number of recruits as well as stars so it isn't the best measure...we will use avg stars as we always do on these boards. Let me know if it's a deal.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 3, 2014 3:13 p.m.

    Naval Vet:
    We were determining average stars to measure recruiting success, not rivals ranking (which you will notice is not in line with espn rankings...rivals has become a joke when evaluating recruiting talent and rankings. SEC fans (I'm one of them) have already written rivals off because they don't do their job very well in terms of how good players end up being. Anyway, doesn't matter...avg stars BYU was still above Utah this year (at least Chris understood that, even if it was a small fraction above). I gave a reason for stating why that would continue because of Utah's futility. Do you have any reason to believe Utah will recruit better as long as they continue to be a bottom dweller in the PAC? Do you have reason to believe Utah's record or performance will magically be better this year? I will make a wager with you and Chris that BYUs avg stars will be better again this year than Utah's (not rival ranking). No posts for a month if I'm wrong, same for you two if I'm right. Deal?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 3, 2014 8:26 a.m.


    "The trend is BYUs recruiting is getting better while Utah's isn't..."

    No, that is not the trend. At least not according to Rivals anyway. Per these last 7 recruiting years, Utah's Rivals-ranked recruiting classes were 60th (2008), 44th (2009), 32nd (2010), 37th (2011), 28th (2012), 44th (2013), and 67th (2014). That averages to about 44.6. 44.6 is over 22 spots away from 67. With our last recruiting class ranking 67th, you can see that that was a clear "aberration"; not a "trend".

    On the other hand, look at the cougars trend respectively from 2008-14, there DOES appear to be a clear "trend": 83rd, 50th, 40th, 63rd, 62nd, 71st, and 71st. That averages to about 62.9. And 62.9 is only about 8 spots off, and the trajectory you've been going -- which would be "down" -- has been consistent. Ergo, your recruiting is not only worse than Utah's, it's also NOT improving.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 2, 2014 9:55 p.m.

    Proud Ute:
    What about my post makes no sense to you? BYUs "one good year" that you're referencing was THIS's not like they out recruited you only one year out of five and that year was a couple years ago. It was this year...2014. I already spelled out why I think the trend will continue do you want me to do it again? Utah isn't winning, they aren't going to bowl's not a coincidence that THIS year was Utah's worst recruiting year since joining the PAC...they aren't competing and recruits are realizing that.

    I think you already know that my suggestion for going back to the MWC was just a jab and not a genuine suggestion, right? BYU would get more TV exposure and better SOS in the MWC? Let's see, last year BYUs SOS was the second highest in state history and higher than any Utah SOS until last the MWC it was far from that, so you fail there. More TV, no. BYU was in the top 7 schools for nationally televised games last year...unheard of in the MWC, fail again.

  • Mkithpen Sandy, UT
    April 2, 2014 5:35 p.m.

    When are we going to decide if athletics are going to stay at the Y? If we are winding them down why the slow painful death, just pull the plug and lets move on. Bronco has go to go to get the program to the next level. If the Y is serious it's time to bring in coach W when the U has to let him go due to booster disregard for the consistent caliber of play in the PAC - at least he will have a product on the field worth watching.

  • Proud Ute ,
    April 2, 2014 5:03 p.m.

    Sorry my friend, your post makes no sense. BYU has one good year in four so now that is a trend rather than an aberration? I think we would all love to hear why you think it will continue.
    Your suggestion for the U to take the pay cut and run back to the MWC is laughable at best but might be a good idea for your beloved Cougars to look into. Your strength of schedule and your TV exposure would both certainly improve.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 2, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    Naval Vet:
    Well my post to CB didn't make it I guess. I was referring to this year...that's why I said "this year". The trend is BYUs recruiting is getting better while Utah's isn't, and actually declined because recruits don't want to be sub .500 and bowless every year. I expect that trend to continue after this year where there's no reason to believe Utah will perform better than last year. Don't change what I said and then try and refute it. This year (which is what I referred to) Utah DID NOT recruit better than BYU. That trend will continue next year as well IMO, but we will see.

    In the meantime you and Chris should stop the Strawman arguments. I never said BYU had recruited better the last few years, I only said this year, pointing to a trend that I believe will continue. After it does continue, "2-star" Utah will continue to flounder in a league they don't belong in...they should take the paycut and go back to the MWC.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 2, 2014 3:37 p.m.


    "BYU and Utah had about the same level of success in terms of recruiting this year. If you recall BYU brought in more 4 stars than Utah did...The 2 star thing is old, and only makes you look bad when U didn't recruit any better. So now the question is whether Kyle will be able to win and keep his job with '2-star' Utah."

    According to Rivals, Utah had out-recruited the Y every year since 2008. And the average ranking of those 7 recruiting classes was 44.6 for the Utes, and 62.9 for the cougs. That's an 18-spot advantage for your big brother on the Hill, so our recruiting isn't as close as you're trying to make it out to be. During those 7 yrs, the Y signed 10 more recruits than the U, but the U still signed 6.3% more athletes graded at 4-stars or above, 36% more athletes graded at 3-stars, and 54.3% fewer athletes graded at 2-stars. Neither the U nor the Y will likely start any 2-star kids from our 2014 classes. Bottom line: Utah DID recruit better.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 2, 2014 1:10 p.m.


    Of the last 5 years, Utah won 4 of the recruiting classes over byu, according to Scout, Rivals, ESPN, whichever you want to use. In fact, of the four classes prior to the most recent, every single was was better than any single year for byu of the previous 4. So for 4 years in a row, Bronco never had a recruiting class as good as Whit's worst recruiting class. This past year byu "won" by .07 stars or something like that. Conversely, Utah "won" by .7 stars just the year before when byu averaged 2.3 and Utah averaged 3.0

    You're showing you don't know what you're talking about if you think byu is doing as well in recruiting as Utah.

    Now let me anticipate the "then why has Utah struggled" question for you...

    Answer: We don't play byu 12 times a year.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 2, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    Haha! I have to admit that rhyming comment made me laugh. I don't often agree with you, but thanks for the humor.

    Now to what I don't agree with you about. BYU and Utah had about the same level of success in terms of recruiting this year. If you recall BYU brought in more 4 stars than Utah did, and more speed and talent where they needed it. The 2 star thing is old, and only makes you look bad when U didn't recruit any better. So now the question is whether Kyle will be able to win and keep his job with "2-star" Utah.

    I agree with other posters that Bronco needs to show urgency and passion in how often and to what level his team practices. No excuse for wasting valuable practice time before a rivalry game or bowl game. Bronco has always been a great DC going back to his New Mexico days, but I think the stresses of being a HC in terms of media relations and team dynamics are not in his wheelhouse. I hope things can be different this year but I'm not holding my breath.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    April 2, 2014 8:07 a.m.

    Advice to Bronco: When you have the opportunity to practice, use it! To do otherwise is to demonstrate a lack of will. Here is an old slogan, "Practice makes perfect."

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    April 1, 2014 11:56 p.m.

    "Will over Skill"

    Man, I really hate that slogan....

    Please, Bronco, enough with the stupid sayings, use all your allotted practices, lose the sophomoric 3-point start from the sideline, concentrate on the "Skill" and perhaps you'll garner a little more success and a little more respect.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    April 1, 2014 11:44 p.m.

    It has been time for quite awhile now to make a change in the BYU football program. Until BYU realizes this and takes action, we will continue to hear more slogans and schedule time off before big games. The story does not change at a once great football program.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 1, 2014 9:20 p.m.

    "Will over skill"?

    Hmmm. Well I suppose when the overall makeup of your team is as "2-star" loaded as the cougars, one can surmise that the "skill" part just wasn't there to begin with. So perhaps the cougar coaches might be on to something there by stressing the "will" part.

    Plus it rhymes. That helps cougars stay focused.

    Good call Bronco.

  • GilmerTexasCougar Gilmer, TX
    April 1, 2014 8:55 p.m.

    Gosh, I certainly hope Bronco feels a sense of urgency. As several have mentioned, he failed to feel that particular "sense" before the Utah game and before the bowl game. If he could feel the same sense of urgency as many of us fans feel the Cougars would have a better roar. I, too, think Bronco is a great man but I not so sure about being a great football coach.

  • Unbiased1979 dallas, TX
    April 1, 2014 7:53 p.m.

    2013 Ute:

    You may remember that game differently due to your consuption of the Pac-12 kool-aid. BYU outplayed Washington for most of that game. Total offense BYU 473 to 319 for UW. I'm not taking anything away from UW, they got stops, had a couple long kickoff returns and the Cougs couldn't convert in the red zone (and no I'm not going to say "blue zone", that's ridiculous) when they needed to. But to make it sound like a walkover might just show your ignorant bias.

  • blue & white Boise, ID
    April 1, 2014 7:21 p.m.

    practice more between the last game and the bowl game, derive a new, more practice formula.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    April 1, 2014 6:54 p.m.

    Slogans don't win games, (but then neither do Utes in PAC-12 play and since Utah isn't playing BYU this year, it doesn't matter what happened in the past). Here's hoping BYU comes out the gates and put "wins" where their mouth has been. I would rather BYU talk down in public and then come clean house.

  • Horrible Stumper Hyrum, UT
    April 1, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    @Ernest, when your right, your right, eloquently put. Even better than Coach Mendenhall could have said it.

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    April 1, 2014 1:32 p.m.

    Gee, Bronco, where was that "sense of urgency" last December when you decided to take an early vacation and blow off half of your allowed number of bowl practices? Or how about in September when you decided to blow off a couple of practices before playing Utah?

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    April 1, 2014 1:32 p.m.

    2013 Ute

    "It was nice to see Washington make BYU look like BYU."

    BYU is 4-5 versus Washington, Bronco is 2-1.

    The bottom dwelling pacy Utes are 0-8 versus Washington, Kyle is 0-2.

    It's laughable how out of touch with reality the kids living under the crimson bubble are.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    April 1, 2014 12:21 p.m.

    It was nice to watch Washington make byu look bad again while we sat home again and watched it on tv again. It is just what we expect during bowl season by being in a pac 10 where we don't get to go to bowl games anymore. but the popcorn is good anyways and its cold outside then anyways so its fun watching byu lose.

    Go Utes upward to PAC 10 prestegous!

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    April 1, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    Sense of urgency? Where was that sense of urgency when you blew off practices prior to the bowl game. To waste those bowl practices was absurd.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    April 1, 2014 10:14 a.m.

    Washington had an unfair advantage of using all their allotted practices and no head coach.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    April 1, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    It was nice to see Washington make byu look like byu. It was just what we would have expected from a pac 12 vs. indy/wac game

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 1, 2014 8:23 a.m.

    I wish I could be convinced of this so-called sense of urgency. Bronco might be more confortable in another calling. I'm not convinced he has the killer instinct that can be conveyed to the team that will be translated to the field. He is a nice guy, very principled, and the team is filled will nice guys. I suspect we will be left with a program that executes fairly well, but lacks the drive to be at the top. One other thing. There are no intermediate goals, such as a conference championship, to play for. I think this makes a difference.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    April 1, 2014 7:13 a.m.

    Gee thanks Brandon. One more cool aspect of Coach Mendenhall that his critics will now deride.

    From the comfort of their couches.

    During bowl season.