Ken99 participants have never won a single game (0%) in the NCAA
tournament.Most logical fans would agree that at least 99 teams have
a worse record in the Big Dance than BYU (33%).The truth is BYU has
a better winning percentage in the NCAA tournament than 156 of the 310 teams
that have played in the tournament, in other words, upper half of all teams that
have ever played in the tournament.BYU is 39th on the list of most
games played in the tournament.
poymanThis article was written and the quotes from Dave Rose were
made the day before Carlino announced that he was transferring.
sportyguyYou're right, Utah is one-and-done for the entire Dave
Rose era; it won't be one-and-done for the decade until next season.Running score during the Dave Rose era:BYU 4-7 in the NCAA;
3-2 in the NIT; 7-9 overall in post-season playUtah 0-1 in the NCAA; 0-1
in the NIT; 0-2 overall in post-season playHead-to-headBYU 12
Ken"But when a program leads the nation in worst tournament
performance..."Worst tournament performance is certainly not
most tournaments without a Final Four appearance, but fewest wins in the
tournament, which would probably tie dozens of winless teams for worst
tournament performance.At what point does making the Final Four
really become a significant accomplishment? If there are only 8 teams in the
tournament and you only win one game, is that really any better than losing in
the Round of 32 today?Bottom line: BYU has played in 29 NCAA
tournaments, which certainly places BYU high on the list of all-time NCAA
tournament appearances.It's interesting that you're trying
to minimize BYU's recent success in the tournament.During the
Dave Rose era, BYU is 4-7 in the Big Dance. During the same period, Utah is 0-1.
BYU lost at least 4-5 games this year from the line. Seems like a pretty easy
fix IMHO. And a lot easier than depending on better defensive play. A 69% team
free throw percentage is unacceptable.
Having read the article and all the comments, there is only one person talking
about 1984. As usual, it is a ute that can't get past that empty NC trophy
case on the hill. As for next year, BYU needs a point guard who can distribute
the ball and make free throws. Since he won't be able to do much else,
Collinsworth needs to spend his rehab time shooting free throws. A point guard
who can pass, go to the basket and make free throws during crunch time would be
I love Rose, but he's wrong... Carlino's absence will be glaring and
BYU's record will be worse...
The only thing I am worried about is not having a definite point guard. All of
our guards are combo guards. Hopefully we will overcome this.
I'm a life long Utah fan but there is no question BYU has been the better
program during Rose's tenure. I think Rose is a very solid coach who has
done an very good job. If I were a betting person on the future of Utah's
program vs. BYU's program, a strong argument could be made that the
Ute's future looks very bright with significant improvement this year over
last (road record is a huge problem and strength of out of conference schedule
must be improved) and a top tier recruiting class on the way and only one Sr
leaving who hardly played. Coach K has the Utes moving in the right direction
and I like the Ute's future. With the just announced departure of Carlino
from BYU, the Cougs future just improved. He shot BYU out of more games than he
helped. Addition by subtraction.I love to see all the local teams
getting to the big dance and making some noise!Go Utes!
It is comforting to know that we have this depth for next year. My prediction
for next years starting lineup.PG CollinsworthSG BartleySF
HawsPF Ryan AndrusC AustinWinder off of the bench first.
Fischer, Chatman, and Halford will step up this next year. One year of
experience for Worthington will help. Sharp will be passed up by Aytes, who I
believe is similar to Kaufusi. Neilson will be a Nate Austin off of the
bench.Although Matty is gone, I believe our depth will help us to succeed.
Chris B:Let's let the facts speak for themselves while actually
staying within the current century. BYU has gone to an NCAA
tournament 7 of the last 8 years (Rose's tenure), including a Sweet-16
appearance. Utah has gone to an NCAA tournament once in the past 8 years,
and as a #5 seed that got upset by a #12 seed in the first round.BYU
went to the NIT in the only year they didn't go to the NCAA tournament.
They made it to the tournament semi-finals game in Madison Square Garden.Utah went to the NIT once over the same period, going winless.BYU
has beaten Utah 80% of the time over the past decade.All things
considered, BYU fans truly have more to brag about than Utah fans since Rose
became BYU's head coach 8 years ago.
From a source who knows, there's a very good chance that Chatman will
redshirt next year in order to get in playing shape. Like Rose said, the 14
player/13 schollie situation will work itself out.
What needs improvement for next year:1. FT shooting (this is the easiest
area to improve, and the most direct route to more points)2. Defense,
especially guarding the 33. Low post scoring on offense (c'mon,
Pope, teach these big men some low post moves)4. 3 pt shooting (it was
downright ugly this year)
They should be very good next year with the new arrivals.
Defense needs major upgrading.Defending against the 3 needs
implementation.Free throws were an adventure; that is addressable.Offense in the post would be a bonus.The scholarship thing should
fix itself. If you can afford to live in Lone Peak land, you can afford
$5500/yr books and tuition. Someone man up and ask dad for a loan. Take one
for the team.
@ Christopher:1984 is considered "just history" since most
of the fans commenting here online were born by then. But 1944 qualifies
as "ancient history" since almost none of the online readers were even
born back then.Have you even thought about what an actual
"flip-flop, flip-flop" it truly is for you to make fun of BYU fans for
referring to 1984 just a few months ago (in football), and now you are actually
going almost twice that far back to reference data?So to now accuse
BYU fans of flip-flopping is actually very hypocritical. Think about it. You
should be embarrassed.People living in red glass houses
shouldn't throw stones... or even smaller rocks, since they often get
thrown back. Red glass is known to shatter much easier than clear (unbiased)
glass.One thing is indisputable. When not needing to reference info
from history books (that is, referring to the games most of us have actually
seen), BYU has mostly dominated Utah (over the past decade or so).
@ Chris and Ken;You two would be comical if not so actually clueless
when it comes to college basketball. Please do some research and tell us how
many teams (out of the current 351 NCAA college basketball teams) have made it
to the NCAA tournament 7 of the last 8 years? Hint: BYU is in a very
select and enviable group. Even your hidden envy is poking through. BTW: Utah has been to that tournament a grand total of once during that same
period. Statistically, BYU is doing 700% better than Utah since Rose became
BYU's head coach... using the NCAA tournament as a benchmark.The comical part is that you two have to go back to before WWII to find a way
to compare favorably with BYU, when the Utes got to the Final Four in 1944 by
winning just 3 games and with only a third as many NCAA basketball teams playing
as compared to today. You ridiculed BYU fans for referring to 1984
during the football season. Now you two are going back another 40 years beyond
that. Can you say hypocritical?Using even semi-recent history, BYU
@BlueCougAt least use accurate facts. Utah went to the sweet 16 in
2005 which is hardly "one and done".I would highly recommend
that you don't try to go into NCAA tournament stats when comparing the two
programs. BYU has been a decent team but don't kid yourself about the
success they have had in the NCAA tournament, especially when trying to compare
it to Utah's.
Get well KC and please practice on your Free Throw daily. Let your brother Chris
being the ball to you while your doing FT! Good luck.
cougfanintx,You don't care much for ancient history?You do mean except for the year 1984 of course right?LOL to byu
fans who think ancient history in football matters but in basketball it
doesnt'flip, flop, flip, flop
@Ken - "It isn't that a one and done is the worst thing, it's just
not impressive. But when a program leads the nation in worst tournament
performance(most dances without a final four) that is pretty much the worst
thing." I don't care much for ancient history. The worst
thing would be to root for a team that was so poor they didn't get invited
to the dance for nine of the last ten years. That's not impressive.Here's my forecast for the next few years.2014-2015 -
Better than previous year. NCAA likely. 2015-2016 - Worse than previous
year. NIT likely.2016-2017 - Much better than previous year. Advancing
in NCAA probable.2017-2018 - Much better than previous year. Advancing in
NCAA to Sweet 16 likely.2018-2019 - Better than previous year. Advancing
in NCAA to Elite 8 or higher likely.
If KC can work on his outside/free throw shooting during rehab (should be plenty
of time to do this and nothing else), and perimeter shooting improves with
Fischer, Chatman and returning guys, I see a better record next year. But Mika
will be tough to replace, so next year we'll likely resemble a lot of the
3-point shooting teams we faced in the WCC. Hopefully Aytes and Nielsen/Andrus
can help us in the paint.Austin: Go get your outside jumper working
again, and develop some low-post moves! We need more than just rebounding and
hustle plays from you....
We are easily way better even though we don't go to the NCAA tournament
very much like byu does.Go Utes!
"The Cougars will add transfers Chase Fischer (Wake Forest) and Jamal Aytes
(UNLV); returned LDS missionaries Isaac Neilson and Jordan Chatman; and freshman
Ryan Andrus (American Fork High)."How many of these guys were
actually with the team this year? I think Chase, Jamal and Isaac were all with
the team and practiced at least part of this year. Jordan is the only true RM.
Defense, defense, defense. Without it, the influx of new players won't make
We could easily be way better.
2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0, I have not seen any bragging about
BYU's appearance just fact are being presented. The only thing I see is
immature, jealous ute fans coming on to BYU and tearing them down.
"...That group will bolster an experienced nucleus — WCC Player of the
Year Tyler Haws; guards Kyle Collinsworth, Matt Carlino, Anson Winder, Skyler
Halford and Frank Bartley IV; and forwards Nate Austin, Luke Worthington and
Josh Sharp.With no seniors graduating, the Cougars lose just one
player, forward Eric Mika, who departs for an LDS mission in May.That leaves BYU with 14 players on the roster and just 13 scholarships
available...".With the Cougars being guard heavy, it looks like
Halford might be the odd man out.The Cougars need someone (or 2 or
even a committee would do) to fill up the Mika minutes.Hope
Collingsworth rehab goes well.Coach Rose and staff have done and
will continue to do an excellent job.I always root for the Cougar
players... except when their playing the Utes...of course.
bluecoug - 4 final 4 appearances is our history is better than anything byu has
to show.Byu has been to a single sweet 16(and no farther) in 30
years, and byu fans think that is something to brag about?LOL
Ken,How was that one and done in the NIT against a team from the lowly WCC
in a high school gym that the MUSS could not fill up? BYU and Gonzaga were both
sell outs in that gym, guess Utah was of no interest to St. Mary's fans!!!
Good luck next year when Utah plays in the MC!!!Go Cougs!!! Rise
I fully expect BYU to be better. The teams needs to toughen up mentally and
take the conference more seriously. I do think the future is bright.
KenPoor jealous BYU hater.Being one-and-done for 2014 is
certainly MUCH better than being one-and-done FOR THE ENTIRE DECADE.Both of BYU's basketball programs, men's and women's, have been
to the Sweet Sixteen since the last time the Utes even won a single game in the
Big Dance.btw, BYU has won more games in the NCAA tournament than
many of those 86 Final Four teams. Let's not forget that in 1944, Utah only
had to win ONE game, to get to the Final Four. In 1980, BYU's Elite Eight
team won as many games (3) as Utah's 1944 NCAA championship team.
To improve, the 2014-2015 team needs to add a solid offensive and defensive post
player, another consistent outside shooter, and better free throwing.
It isn't that a one and done is the worst thing, it's just not
impressive. But when a program leads the nation in worst tournament
performance(most dances without a final four) that is pretty much the worst
thing. 86 teams have made it to the final four at least once. Byu is not among
intrinsicrewards, that's a nice story, sounds like a tough kid. But
you're right, every case is different, and every sport has different
demands. Biomechanically, ACLs are generally tougher on taller guys (and gals),
and basketball is one of the toughest sports on them with all the change of
direction at high speeds. Wrestling's most common knee injury is the LCL,
so it's not uncommon to see quicker return from cruciate ligament injuries
than collateral ligaments. Having met a lot of BYU's medical staff, I have
pretty good confidence in their ability to rehab and return him to play
judiciously and timely. That said, while I don't know about his situation
specifically, I'd be pretty surprised to see him return to full minutes
early in their season.
Devin Carter, a wrestler from Virginia Tech, had a fully torn ACL and surgery in
early December. He just wrestled in the ACC tournament where he was named
wrestler of the year and then went on to NCAA tournament on OK City and made the
finals. Everyone also told him it would be 8-10 months after his surgery in
December. This young athlete worked extremely hard through alot of pain to get
back quickly. I know every case is different, but his case is something that
should be looked at as a model and maybe the trainers should call VT and get
some pointers on how he rehabbed so quickly. They would not have let him come
back too early and risk further injury in such a tough sport. Good
luck to Kyle with the rehab...