Letter: Invite the divine

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  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    March 15, 2014 4:27 p.m.

    re: LDS Liberal

    "We think we have a long ways to go, before we start asking God to save us from ourselves..."

    Save us from ourselves? That is what celebrities like Bono & Dicaprio are for. Aren't they?

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    March 14, 2014 10:03 p.m.


    Sorry but I do not see anyone telling you to shut up or prey in a closet, it does seem however that you are not comfortable with any opinions that do not aline themselves with you.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    March 14, 2014 6:47 p.m.

    "And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray."
    (2 Nephi 32:8


    I often wonder what makes anyone tell us that he can "do it" by himself when the scriptures are full of examples when Christ, a member if the Godhead and the creator of heaven and earth, spent much of his time in humble prayer. Surely if there ever exited a person who could "do it" by himself, it was Christ, yet he taught us to rely on our Father in heaven.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 14, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Gmlewis, Houston, tx.

    How do you know that " The truth is that the Creator appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820, and through several revelations he received thereafter, we have a very good idea of the purpose of the world".

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    March 14, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    Purposes of the mortal world:
    1) Gain a physical body
    2) Organize into families
    3) Learn faith in God
    4) Repent of personal sins
    5) Grow in love through service

    @Open Minded Mormon: You are right, all these things eventually lead to the ultimate purpose of the world, to enable us to obtain the blessings of immortality and eternal life.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    March 13, 2014 6:40 p.m.

    @2bits…. not sure how you read into my comments that you said something wrong…. but I still stand by my premise that just perhaps being civil instead of judgmental and condescending to those who don't agree with you would be a good first step before asking God to step in and help.

    In the scriptures it was really clear that the one time peace prevailed, people were not referring to other groups as any other kind of -ite. They were one people. They probably didn't agree on everything, but they stopped trying to classify one group as being more spiritual, worthy, righteous, … than the other group.

    I am all in favor of inviting God in your life daily…. not the problem. Treating one another with respect, whether republican or democrat, or member or non-member, even gay or straight…. much larger issue. If we can't do those simple things….

    So I am not sure what said that was so Straw man…. but we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 13, 2014 2:45 p.m.

    Houston, TX

    The truth is that the Creator appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820, and through several revelations he received thereafter, we have a very good idea of the purpose of the world.

    2:27 p.m. March 13, 2014


    Agreed, but what was that purpose?

    As I read it, it as to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man",
    political Conservatives think it is exploit, shut out, sqander, and get GAIN.
    He who dies hording the most wins!

    which is why I am against them.

    There truely is "enough and to spare" - and I believe it,
    but that is only when those holding all the treasures of the earth SHARE with the others
    [hint: that is code for re-distrubte the wealth, something else they are opposed to].

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    March 13, 2014 2:27 p.m.

    @Ultra Bob: Is there anywhere the slightest indication that the world has a purpose?

    That is the saddest line I've read in weeks. It would seem that once you discard the idea of the world having a Creator, then the only conclusion is that the random existence of the world is without purpose.

    The truth is that the Creator appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820, and through several revelations he received thereafter, we have a very good idea of the purpose of the world.

    It would be worth investigating. Such hopelessness is tragic.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 13, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    A few years back, I was walking on 2nd south downtown salt lake city. A man approached me, he looked homeless, and smelled of booze. He did not ask me for money, he did not ask me my religion, but he asked me on the public street, for me to say a prayer for him there on the street. I was taken back by his request, but then I agreed and as people passed by I prayed with him. He graciously thanked me, would take nothing offered and went his way. Should I have taken him to a closet to pray with him?

    "It's the "how" that I raise serious concern."

    Neither the letter writer nor I said where to pray. The invitation was a simple invite to pray.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 13, 2014 10:50 a.m.

    Centerville, UT

    Even mormon liberals attack the idea for devine help perhaps forgetting the commandment to pray in all things.


    No one said anything of the sort.
    We didn't said NOT to pray.
    or who, how or to what.

    As one Mormon to another,
    It's the "how" that I raise serious concern.

    Because Jesus himself told us:

    Matthew 6:5-6
    King James Version (KJV)

    5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 13, 2014 10:17 a.m.

    Fascinating discussion about religion. No intolerance in the letter writers comments, no demand in her letter, simply an invitation to pray to god. And then comes the attack of the humanist liberals. How dare she share a religious concept in a public sphere. These same people tell you there is no liberal attack on religion and here they go after her. They attack the very idea that she would pray for devine help as if this is a mandate to conform. Even mormon liberals attack the idea for devine help perhaps forgetting the commandment to pray in all things. Phillipians 4:6 "Don't worry about anything, but in everything, through prayer and petition with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God."

    So as with the letter writer I too, invite you to pray.

    The apologists follow suit to deflect the liberal humanist attack.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 13, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    I don't know about the rest of you,
    But I'm seeing a pattern ---

    Henny Penny, and
    The Sky is Falling.

    Letter: Invite the divine
    Mar 12, 2014
    Sandy Thackery
    How interesting that 'everything in America is falling apart' and everyone blames someone else.

    Letter: Include the Tea Party, GOP
    Feb 9th, 2014
    Sandy Thackery

    I join millions who are disappointed with the way our country is going downhill because of the present administration.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 13, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    Re [UtahBlueDevil 5:07 p.m]...
    Again, as I said in my 3:02 p.m. post... If you ask for divine help, that doesn't automatically mean you are not willing to do anything on your own.

    That's just a silly assumption and a strawman argument. People who invite the divine into their life don't say you don't have to do anything on your own. Quit making such bizarre assumptions.

    We all know you have to do your best and try to help yourself. You're not the only one. And people who feel they can invite the divine into their life know just as well as you do, that they need to be doing all they can on their own even when they do ask for God to be with them.

    This assumption that IF you ask the divine into your life.... you are not doing anything on your own... is just bizarre!

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 13, 2014 7:08 a.m.

    Is this the same "Divine" Being who has told us repeated to:

    Treat each others as equals?
    See that there is no poor amonst us?
    Care for the Poor, the Sick, the Needy and the Elderly?
    NOT start Wars?
    Love one another, and reject Mammon and Babylon?
    To not let PRIDE guide their Foreign or Econmic polocies?

    Ya - That's what I thought.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    March 13, 2014 6:41 a.m.

    Sandy T. uses god as a blunt instrument if you read some of her other letter to the editors. I'd rather avoid said blunt instrument, thank you very much.

  • Melanna Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 12, 2014 11:34 p.m.

    "Here's an idea: Let's invite God back into our daily lives and get to know him again. Perhaps he'd even be willing to help when we can't figure it out by ourselves!"

    Why do you need others involved in your quest to invite God back into your life?

    If you need/want God in your life, that is a personal action you need to take and I wish you the best of luck with that. (As a word of advice, if you are having that much difficulty getting God into your life, you may be looking in the wrong places.)

    If, however, you mean I need your God in my life, I will pass, thank you all the same. My life is good and I don't need to make you feel better about the world by having your God involved in it.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 12, 2014 6:44 p.m.

    If only there was some smidgen of validation or proof of what the people who speak for the God of people say about their God, then perhaps us non-believers could weaken in our doubt. If only those people would live their lives as if they believed their own words. Is there anywhere the slightest indication that the world has a purpose?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    March 12, 2014 5:36 p.m.

    Invite the divine?

    Does that mean we can finally rid ourselves of this backwards health care system and get a single payer one? Can we finally bring back worked protections? Unions so we can actually make a living? Raise the min wage so workers don't have to work2-3 other jobs or use food stamps? Can we admit that the wealth inequality is the direct result of our backwards tax system? Can we admit that the rich have waged class warfare and wages it successfully to steal from the middle class and poor? Can we admit that this tea party non compromise is nonsense?

    I'll believe that we are ready to invite the divine when repubs are ready to admit that trickle down economics is of the devil, single payer is the way to go, and when they are ready to raise the min wage.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    March 12, 2014 5:25 p.m.

    Do we have some problems? sure, is the country falling apart? hardly. Crime rates and teen pregnancy remain historically low, abortion rates are lower then they have been in the past 40 years, etc etc etc... just because the letter writers faith no longer has a strangle hold on public policy does not mean the world is ending.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    March 12, 2014 5:07 p.m.

    Asking God to do for us what we are capable of doing, but refuse to do, is not the answer. Whether there is a God or not… I personally do believe in something greater than myself, the action part of it will always be up to us. God is not going to come down here and save ourselves from ourselves. That is our jobs.

    If we can not treat each other with dignity and respect, we have no business asking God to make others do what we ourselves refuse to do.

    Mocking people because of their faith I am sure is not going to help… in fact, I can pretty much say it will result in exactly the opposite of civility.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2014 4:10 p.m.

    I would say that would include thinking of others and caring enough to work together. Putting God in our lives doesn't mean the same thing to everyone!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 12, 2014 4:01 p.m.

    Ernest T. Bass,
    You got me there dude... I can't think of a single instance when God blessed or helped anybody. Good point.

    Just kidding.

    I could give you a long list of examples... but you would just dismiss them. So I won't.


    But the existence of God wasn't what I was trying to get at. I was trying to point out is that IF we asked for help, and he helped us (which I believe he does)... it would probably be through prompting someone to do something... not sending an angel or something like that (although that probably happens sometimes too). That's why I always follow the promptings I get to help people (just in case).

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 12, 2014 3:56 p.m.

    Elder Jeffery Holland gave a remarkable talk about the "Angles Among us."

    Angles are not metaplasma energy with wings.

    WE are to be God's Angels.
    Just as others have mentioned.

    BrighamYoung taught the true intent of religion ---

    "… many of our brethren and sisters are on the Plains with hand-carts, and probably many are now seven hundred miles from this place, and they must be brought here, we must send assistance to them.

    THAT is my religion; that is the dictation of the Holy Ghost that I possess, it is to save the people. . . . This is the salvation I am now seeking for, to save our brethren that would be apt to perish, or suffer extremely, if we do not send them assistance. [JD 4:113]

    I will tell you all that your faith, religion, and profession of religion, will never save one soul of you in the celestial kingdom of our God, unless you carry out just such principles as I am now teaching you.
    Go and bring in those people now on the plains! [JD 4:113]"

    Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [John 15:13]

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2014 3:31 p.m.

    Ernest - Do you include yourself in those recommendations? I don't see you building too many people up and saying positive things on these boards. But it probably only applies to others huh?

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    March 12, 2014 3:23 p.m.

    Hey 2bits: I can point to many billions of instances where it's verified that human help other humans. You can't point to anything verified, beyond personal belief, where god helped anyone.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 12, 2014 3:02 p.m.

    nonceleb and LDS Liberal,
    Who said stop trying to help yourself?
    If you can give the names I'd like to see those comments.
    Or was that just a strawman?


    Nobody said stop thinking or trying to figure it out for yourself. Just because you ask for help doesn't mean you haven't or won't try to help yourself (or let others help you).

    We need to quit going to the extreme every time with our biased assumptions about others, and claiming people think things they never said (or thought). Nobody thinks if you invite the divine into our lives... you can't also try to work it out on your own as well... that's just a silly assumption.


    Just because somebody believes in asking for divine help... doesn't automatically mean they haven't or won't try themselves as well.

    We need to try to reduce the partisan bickering (if possible).
    Every disagreement isn't a political offense. Nor does it need the usual knee-jerk political partisan response.

    This isn't politics.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2014 2:44 p.m.

    Like praying for rain. Go ahead and do it, but do not stop trying to deal with the drought with practical solutions.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 12, 2014 2:19 p.m.

    My LDS primary teaching taught us that --

    WE were supposed to everything we possibly can for ourselves first,
    and THEN,
    seek for Divine Guidance.

    D&C 58:
    26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

    27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

    28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

    We think we have a long ways to go, before we start asking God to save us from ourselves...

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    March 12, 2014 1:55 p.m.

    The main problem I see with this "solution" is to determine exactly what God says and which of his numerous self-proclaimed spokepeople to believe. Right now, for instance, the political party that assumes its abbreviation means God's Only Party espouses economic philosophies that are an affront to the very God they claim to worship. Their war on the poor, for instance, is not even consistent with the book they claim to be inerrant truth.

    So if you can suggest a way to solve this little dilemma, I'm all ears.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 12, 2014 1:46 p.m.

    I did. She said 'Suck it up. I gave you the brains to think for yourself'.

    March 12, 2014 1:45 p.m.

    I never asked God to leave my life and he is still very much a part of it. We don't, however, believe in PDA. Some relationships should remain private.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 12, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    If you think you can help people better than God can... then go ahead.

    I actually think you are both on the correct path. But you need both (not just one).

    IF you invite God into your life and ask for help... you're probably going to get that help through your friends/neighbors. So yah... we have to be willing to help each other AND we need to be humble enough to ask and accept help (even from "supernatural entities").

    We can help each other in some things (mostly temporal things). But there are other things (ie spiritual things) that we may need divine help. Some things we just can't do by ourselves, or even if others help. Things like repentance, redemption, resurrection, hope in the afterlife, etc....

    So not everything can be solved with your "we can just help each other".... But at the same time... we do need to be willing to help each other, even if some people believe they can ask God for help.

    So you are right. We CAN help each other.
    And she is right. We can invite the divine into our lives.
    IMO... we need both.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2014 1:08 p.m.

    "Maybe it's time to take responsibility"


    " and think about the possibility that we cannot solve all the problems of our country by ourselves."

    Well... we had a good run at the responsibility thing... for about half a sentence before thinking about passing at least a chunk of it off to someone/something else to deal with...

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 12, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    ‘Letter: Invite the divine’


    and I'm 100% fine with that,
    so long as you are willing to allow others to worship --
    "Who, Where, or What they may".

    [God, God the Father, the Mother, the Son, Allah, an energy source, Trees and Shrubs, Gaia, Zesus, or intellect of their very own consciousness, etc.]

    You see, I hear stuff like this all the time,
    but then I see extreme religous repression and bigotry coming from these very same people when they discover or realize that someone is worshipping a God they do not recognize.

    If Christians want to have they statues of Jesus on Oklahoma State grounds,
    We must also allow a 7 foot statue of Baphomet being erected by Satan worshippers.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    March 12, 2014 12:02 p.m.

    Plus 1 to what Ernest said.

    As the central tenet of Deism states, "God gave us reason not religion"

    So, lets use common sense and logic not some Bronze Age hokum.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    March 12, 2014 11:43 a.m.

    Funny I don't see folks immigrating to theocratic states in the middle east where they invite God over loud speakers in prayer several times daily. Nor do I see these countries prospering.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    March 12, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    Or maybe we can just help each other, be better people and leave supernatural entities out of the blame or credit game.