Calif. city torn by multiple fights over public crosses

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  • donn layton, UT
    March 16, 2014 9:33 p.m.

    RE: Skeptic, In Christianity, the cross is the intersection of God’s love and His justice. Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). Jesus is the Lamb of God points back to the institution of the Jewish Passover in Exodus 12.

    Jesus called His followers to take up their cross and follow Him (Matthew 16:24). This concept of “cross-bearing” today has lost much of its original meaning. Typically, we use “cross-bearing” to denote an inconvenient or bothersome circumstance (e.g., “my troubled teen is my cross to bear”).
    However, we must keep in mind that Jesus is calling His disciples to engage in radical self-denial. Remember, the cross meant only one thing to a 1st century person—Death.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    March 16, 2014 10:44 a.m.

    RE: donn, So is your point that a bronze snake or a pole would be a better symbol than Pi, ? mark or +. That sounds reasonable, just keep them off public property and no problem.

  • donn layton, UT
    March 16, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    RE: Skeptic,The idea of the cross wasn't introduced until many years after the death of Jesus. “… the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God”(1Cor 1:18)

    Prophecy, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.(John 3:14-15)

    The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.(Numbers 21:8-9)

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    March 15, 2014 9:51 a.m.

    The cross isn't relevant to Jesus. Jesus was crucified on a wood slap. The idea of the cross wasn't introduced until many years after the death of Jesus. A better symbol would be the Pi symple. Or perhaps the question mark. And they should be painted on every fence post and peoples fore heads.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    March 14, 2014 7:26 a.m.

    LDS Liberal

    Trouble is, these days, two crossed bones could in the mind of some constitute a religious symbol. Much like those two crossed steel beams found at the World Trade Center.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    March 13, 2014 7:04 p.m.

    Regardless of a cross or some other display, I find the whole concept of leaving basically a permanent memorial where one was killed on public property annoying. I get that the family is grieving, but 2 years later, they're still leaving stuff out on a public highway? If it was anything else, it would be considered littering.

  • scwoz gambier, oh
    March 13, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    What would Christ have done? From all of what I have read, he would have put his hand out to those who belong to the Humanist Society and he would have provided them with service and given them his Love. What an example. We need to follow him in all he has done. Let us find an act of kindness and service we can do and put forth all our Love towards these misguided and misdirected people. I know it is hard when a loved one dies and we want to memorialize their lives but the best way to do that is to follow in the footsteps of the resurrected one, Jesus Christ and teach them what Love really is. They are sad people who have lost something in their lives and have lashed out at their God by acting like a patulous teenager and telling everyone if they can’t have it no one can. Christ taught us to share his love.

  • CynicJim Taylorsville, UT
    March 13, 2014 3:46 a.m.

    I keep asking, are cross erectors asking for your money to establish a religion, no, then leave 'em be.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 12, 2014 10:41 p.m.

    I don't find a roadside cross, star of David, or star and crescent offensive.

    These memorials do not establish religion anymore than the religious symbols on gravestones in a veteran's graveyard establish a particular religion. As long as long as the ability to put up a memorial is open to all under the same circumstances, this should be okay.

    But I am no fan of roadside memorials. If allowed, I think it should be for year, maybe two at the most. After that, the memorial should be removed (and it doesn't matter who it was, how old they were, or whether they were a police officer, etc., etc.).

  • donn layton, UT
    March 12, 2014 5:47 p.m.

    RE: Tyler D, Crosses are patriotic: The Air Force Cross is the second highest military award that can be given to a member of the United States Air Force. The Air Force Cross is the Air Force decoration equivalent to the Distinguished Service Cross (Army), the Navy Cross (Navy and Marine Corps), and the Coast Guard Cross (Coast Guard).

    The Red Cross is a sign of comfort, i.e… donut dollies in Vietnam. I was in the jungles of Vietnam and Thailand and the (Christian)Chaplains wore and had crosses. I once entered a village it was comforting to see Nuns with crosses at the Orphanages not VC. I worked with Thai army patrols (Buddhists) and they had no problem with crosses. The ambulances on military bases(flight line) had crosses, that was really comforting.

    RE: LDS Liberal, I find the cross offensive, “… the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God”(1Cor 1:18)

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2014 4:08 p.m.


    "I take it that when denoting your online moniker, the liberal part is where the emphasis is placed"

    Ya, you're noticing it too. Let's just put it this way: don't believe everything people tell you. Monikers are made up if you catch my drift. I'm not even Mormon and not even I believe it.

    Anything that upsets the liberals is typically a good idea.

    Don't like crosses? Deal with it.

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    March 12, 2014 3:19 p.m.

    @ LDS Liberal:

    Seriously... you find a cross more offensive than "a skull and crossed bones"??

    The idea is to honor a dead person who believes in the resurrection of Christ, rather than just "to denote a death".

    I take it that when denoting your online moniker, the liberal part is where the emphasis is placed.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 12, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    I find the cross offensive.

    If you want to denote a death,
    and not imply any religion,
    try using a universal and non-religous symbol like Skull & Crossed bones.

  • Tators Logan, UT
    March 12, 2014 2:22 p.m.

    @ Tyler D:

    Tell Dearborn, MI to have at it...
    if something so simple makes the majority happy and it's in honoring their deceased.
    Just don't try pressuring me or anyone else to join that particular faith (per the Constitution).

    As to #2... yes, I was.

  • Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2014 1:12 p.m.

    Of course the Humanists are legally in the right, but why complain?
    If people want to put up symbols that celebrate an imaginary being, but give them some peace of mind, why not let them?
    Live and let live.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    March 12, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    If I found the sight of a cross in public offensive, I would move to a different country.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    March 12, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    @Copacetic – “I'd like to know which religion did they establish?”

    Are you just as comfortable applying this same logic to any religion (e.g., if Dearborn MI, with its large population of Muslims, started displaying the crescent on city property)?

    What about any other religion, including new ones most may think are nutty (I don’t see the relevance of whether a religion is new or old)? If a city had a large population of witches who wanted to display Wiccan symbols on public property, you good with that?

    And you are aware that citizens are free to display whatever religious symbols they like on private property (assuming they’re not large & gaudy thus violating zoning codes), yes?

  • One opinion west jordan, UT
    March 12, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    Disagreements like these puzzle me. One person wants to see a cross or Star of David, while another does not. Why is one person's desire or preference honored over another person's desire or preference? How do the majority of the people in that area feel? Is it not the majority of the people who pay for the public spaces?

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    March 12, 2014 11:38 a.m.

    The Humanistic Society complained that the city violated "a constitutional ban on government establishment of religion". I'd like to know which religion did they establish? Christianity was established long before the USA existed and in and of itself is not an organized sect..

    Displaying a cross is universally recognized symbol of respect for people who have died. By doing so, no one is asking anyone else to join a particular sect or organized religion. The misunderstanding and misuse of the separation of church and state as described in the Constitution is ridiculous. Our government has never once forced any particular religion onto anyone. Seeing any particular religious symbol in public isn't even close to being "a government established religion".

    Once again, activist judges are allowing a single digit percentage of citizenry to rule itself over the vast majority of citizens. Another classic example of the tail once again wagging the dog... as our country continues in it's path of sad moral decline.