@DN SubscriberThe Senate Democrats put the House version up for a vote,
and it was voted down. The Senate passed their own version. The House refused to
take it up for a vote... because it would pass. So the shutdown is entirely the
fault of the Republicans in the House.
Mike Lee wants reimbursement for something he encouraged. Is that ironic,
duplicitous, or both?
I do not understand Mike Lee's position that it is okay to take money from
the Federal Government for National Parks but it is wrong to take money from the
Federal Government for healthcare. Operating the National Parks fed money into
the State's economy. Medicare expansion would feed money into Utah's
economy and help hundred of thousands of Utahans.These Tea Party
extremists are neither logical nor compassionate.
The truth is, it shut down because the bill didn't pass. Blame can be on
both sides. As long as you give one party everything they want everything would
always pass. If the Republicans gave the Democrats everything they wanted all
bills would pass. If Democrats gave Republicans everything they wanted all bills
would pass. I want both parties to check and balance. Or we could just go to a
one party system. I wonder how people would feel if they had all experienced
living in a country with hyperinflation because of out of control spending?
Personally I don't want a Democrat King nor do I want a Republican King.
Remember the days when we impeached a president for spying on another party? Or
covering it up? Remember the days when we had congressional hearings about arms
sales and people actually testified before Congress and took response-ability?
@Rooster Cogburn, (Great Name) I do agree with you that if a contract is in
place for reimbursement it should be honored, but your only addressing this one
sentence which is about refunding what's left if the federal government
reopened before the 10 day period agreed to.You said "Per the
agreement, the Feds were to refund Utah any unused funds out of the ~$1.67
million loan and would take an act of Congress to receive a refund of spent
funds." You used a word which does not appear in the "Utah,
National Park Service agreement" which I just finished reading, and that is
LOAN. From the agreement: "This Agreement sets forth the terms
and conditions under which the State may donate funds to the NPS, and under
which the NPS may accept donated funds...If Utah paid up front the
entire amount, than it is due a refund of $666,288.32 that's the only part
of the contract that says anything about repayment, and technically that's
just a refund for money not spent.The word "Donated" appears
again and again but nowhere does the word LOAN appear.
@DN Subscriber 9:09 a.m. March 12, 2014Let me remind you what REALLY
happened.You start from the right place -- the Republican controlled
House passed a continuing Resolution funding everything the government does,
except the Affordable Care Act. When that HOUSE bill reached the Senate, it was
found to be deficient and the HOUSE bill was amended by the Senate (something
the Senate is totally entitled to do) to remedy the deficiencies in the HOUSE
bill so that the government was fully funded. There were enough Republican and
Democrat Representatives who were willing to vote in favor of the amended HOUSE
bill so that the bill would pass. The far-right Republicans not being willing
to have that happen, they passed a rule that said only Speaker Boehner could
bring the bill up for a vote (thereby denying the use of the common rule in the
House which allows Representatives to vote to have a bill go up for a vote
without the Speaker's approval). The far-right Representatives refused to
have the amended HOUSE bill be considered, and thereby denied funding to the
government. Therefore the Republicans shut down the government.
Ernest T. Bass Is that the best you can do? No facts no substance. Typical
response! Fitting name! All we hear anymore are lies after lies. Now even the
Democrats are fighting each other. Spy on anyone but Dianne Feinstein.
It's funny. The liberal argument isn't about facts! A Liberal can say
the GOP caused the shutdown. The Conservative can say Liberals caused the
shutdown. IT DOESN'T MATTER NOW, IT HAPPENED.I am curious
Esquire, Happy Valley et al...What do you know of the facts about this specific
AGREEMENT; I provided you a resource, have you looked? Quit gripping about how
started it, focus on facts about the Agreement. Did the Feds sign the
Agreement? Did Utah tell the Feds they would seek reimbursement through
congressional approval as stipulated? Were parks re-opened pursuant to the
agreement?Perhaps I am ignorant, but it appears to me, that Utah is
following through with their end of the bargain (loaned money and would seek the
refund). The Feds, stated (though do as I say, not as I do), they are in favor
of refunding the spent LOAN.The only thing off base, as of right
now, is the fact that Liberals are upset because the Grantor and borrower are
following their agreement! What would you prefer, sign an agreement and then
not honor it? That would be anarchy. You can't have your cake and eat it
@ DN Subscriber, your explanation/rationalization is the actual "Orwellisn
newspeak" of which you speak. Only the right wing would describe the
behavior of the GOP House as the fault of the Dems. Just wow.
News flash people. We've had government shutdowns before by both sides. The
reason you don't here about them is that you didn't have an
administration and a radically corrupt majority in the Senate willing to hurt
the people to get their way (Stalin would be proud).You all complain about the
government shutting public lands but you won't do anything to get those
lands back into the hands of the state when even Arizona and Utah could have
kept them open ourselves. eastern states don't have this problem because
the bulk of their state land isn't federally owned. You gripe your
government spends to much and is to big but cry when its time to pay the bill or
cut.Do you think you can cut back the size of the bloated beauracracy and its
not going to hurt? How many of you are griping about taxes and regulation.Heaven
forbid we have some one like LEE who is willing to do the hard but right thing
but I guess Ben Franklin was right you will all sell out your liberty for
temporary safety but in the end you'll get neither.
The sooner we get Mike Lee out of the Senate the better for Utah and America.
Lets review the basics. NO ONE has mentioned that Utah and the Feds
made an AGREEMENT (an accord reached between to or more parties!) Utah fronts
the funds to re-open the Parks in the form of a LOAN (a loan requires repayment)
to the feds. Per the agreement, the Feds were to refund Utah any unused funds
out of the ~$1.67 million loaned and would take an act of Congress to receive a
refund of spent funds. Why are liberals are so bothered? Utah is
following through with the AGREEMENT. Utah said they would seek a refund up
front and here they are, following through. I am curious, did many
of the liberals commenting above "cry" too when the parks where opened
during the shutdown pursuant to this AGREEMENT? Probably not, so why now?What's wrong with making, honoring and KEEPING agreements. But
there is something very wrong when one side breaches, violates, doesn't
follow through and in essence ignores an agreement. The congressional attempt
for a refund is NOT A BAILOUT, rather adherence to an AGREEMENT, the same one
Feds signed! Google "utah makes deal with federal govenment to
keep national parks open" (Oct 11, 2013).
DN Subscriber said: The Republican controlled House passed a continuing
Resolution funding EVERYTHING the government does, except Obamacare. Which caused the government shutdown, because America is not ala carte
government, when republicans don't get their way.Boehner also
passed a rule that only he or Eric Holder could bring a vote on the night of the
shut down just to make sure no republican crossed the isle.
Mike Lee should pay it back! The 'confussion" was and is his fault!
The dirty little secret all you posters won't touch is that the parks
didn't have to be shut down to begin with. Although the people mentioned
were in support of the shutdown the power to decide what gets shut down and its
dispersal resides direclty with the administration and its influence over the
depts. The administration called the bluff of the american people and found
they'll sell out for their pocket book. We don't have money to keep
the parks open but the government can pay the security, rangers and police to
keep people out. We can't maintain a 50 year old 20' wide board walk
at old faithfull but can pay rangers to keep them off it. Incidentally how many
of you are now griping about your deductions going up, your health insurance
premiums skyrocketting, your benefits being cut, your plans being canceled,loss
of jobs, hours cut etc. What Obama is doing Illegally!! now with ACA is what
Cruz and Lee were asking for why are you not attacking the president and
government shutting down now? Because its all about power.if you make it hurt,
the people will do what you want them to.
Orwellisn newspeak is the new language of the left.As a history
lesson for all the libs out there, here is what happened:The Republican
controlled House passed a continuing Resolution funding EVERYTHING the
government does, except Obamacare. Republican Senators voted for that as well,
but Harry Reid and his Democrat robots all voted against funding everything in
the government except Obamacare. By refusing to pass that, it was actually Reid
and the Senate Democrats who caused the government shutdown.But, the
Democrat messaging machine, their co-conspirators in the media, spun this to
blame the Republicans. Orwell would be proud. Regardless, the
administration spent millions (when they technically were laid off) to close
open spaces, and actively inconvenience visitors. We can debate if
it was wise for Utah to pay to open things, or to foolishly expect to be paid
back. But the blame for the closures actually rests with Reid and his
Timberwoof in Kanab needs a history lesson. The shutdown was entirely caused by
Hatch and Lee chose to shut down the government, and the state of Utah chose to
expend funds to keep the national parks open. As much as I'd like to see
the state of Utah avoid paying for this expense, it was a fair deal that
everyone understood at the time. If they didn't want the parks to close,
they shouldn't have shut down the government. There were lots of other
unexpected expenses that arose from that shutdown - are Hatch and Lee suggesting
that the feds pay for those as well? Not at all. This is rank
Lee and Hatch voted for the shutdown, causing the parks to close. This is
astounding! And Utah chose to operate the parks. The state asked to do it
because of the economic benefits. In the end, this is money grab by two
Senators who claim to be fiscally tight. As I've said many times before,
they (our Senators and the GOP) talk a big game, but in reality they are big
spenders. Rhetoric and propaganda do not change reality.
Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and their cronies in the House shut down government. If
anyone repays the cost of opening the Utah parks during their shutdown, it
should be them.
Who bailed who out? The State paid to reopen the parks, but who received the
revenue from the admissions fees? The Federal Government.
Wrong! The shut down came down to the delay of the mandate on Obamacare. The
Democrats refused the delay. Guess what? Obama went ahead after all the shut
down and delayed it anyway by himself.
Republicans wanted to shut-down the government...Ask Mike Lee.The Feds are now supposed to bail out Utah?Republicans are
against bailouts unless the bailout serves Republicans needs.Exactly.
Why? The fed didn't pocket the money, the State did. As usual, they
want to socialize the risk and privatize the profits.
Now, wait a minute. Aren't Hatch and Lee the guys that claim federal money
does nothing to add to Utah's business and economy?