I like the fish...in fact so much I would love to see all of them out on the
bank where I can enjoy them even more
I don't understand how religious people who believe that God created this
world, who looked at his creation when he was done and said it was good and was
pleased by it, could be so callous in caring for this planet and it's
animals.God's ultimate creation was us, I am not arguing
animals take precedence. However I do believe that if we really and honestly
believe in the creation than we would hold God's work with a high degree of
reverence and respect, and frankly I don't see that here in Utah. I also
believe that with a little thought and some inspiration God would help us find
ways to provide for our needs while at the same time caring for his creations.
Unfortunately that attitude is completely lost in today's world of
extremes, if you even remotely care about the environment you are a leftist
People may be mistaking the intent of Chase's post. Though it perhaps
could've used a bit of temperence, it seems primarily motivated by a
discomfort(one that I share!) about "one old man"'s unnecessary
remark.I doubt that he actually justifies unnecessary harm or
suffering to animals at all, rather his intent is probably to help establish a
sense of priority.
Do it. Utah Lake and its uniqueness needs to be embraced, not tossed in the
garbage like it's been the last 70-80 years. Oh yeah, and give it back its
original name: Timpanogos Lake.
To those who dream of Utah lake being a blue pristine lake?It is a
very shallow warm water lake where the green scum used to stick to you. You had
to pick your spot to fall while water skiing or you were covered with scum.My grandparents remember it being a low shallow scummy lake, as did my great
grandparents who came here as pioneers. The Native Americans caught and killed
the big suckers in June because that is when they were easily caught spawning up
in the swampy areas by the mouth of the Provo river, otherwise they could not be
scene in all the scum. The reason the June suckers got so big was because
of the warm shallow water and all the scum to eat!Make it blue and clean
and pristine and you will kill the fish!
Chase,I once lived by a couple guys who took a base-ball bat around
the neighborhood. They beat this dog, then they beat him again. Then they found
other dogs and continued.To accept anything about it as moral or
tolerable is beyond feeling. If you cannot possibly care for the animal,
I'd ask that you care for the child who lost something he truly loved.God indeed does judge us for what we do to other people, and indeed
animals. When I see a starving horse that's been neglected... I have less
feeling than my wife. I look at the owner and wonder what was so hard about
being a good steward or shepherd over the animals in their care. I'm
thinking of it from a more technical lens. But my wife... no. She doesn't.
Women have a love for animals far greater. And if you think you'd be
justified in treating animals however you like, I have a feeling God will hear
the complaints of His daughters.An endangered species is often
debated, so I'd understand you letting a fish die. But our actions will be
Why not relocate the June Sucker to other parts of the country and world where
there is similar habitat.The Endangered Species Act is to prevent
the extinction of animals. Move this special fish to 30 new locations instead
of spending $50 million to build a home for a fish that can't survive in
the Provo Bay Area anymore without welfare.As the population
increases, then the fish won't be endangered anymore and he world is a
better place. Better to un-endanger the June Sucker than to keep it on costly
life supports.30 to 100 more locations for the June Suckers around
the world would be more effective than to continue the program as being
Serious??? So we are trying to save the Sucker? This is the same ugly fish that
destroyed Strawberry Res 25 years ago causing the DWR to have to poison and
replant the entire lake. I could see doing whatever is necessary to the Provo
River to help the German Brown population but it seems to me we WANT to get rid
of the Sucker before it destroys the River like it did Strawberry.
If it sucks in June, what does it do the rest of the year? Utah lake
will never be like Lake Tahoe or Geneva. They are deep lakes, Utah lake is like
a shallow pan. Sometimes I feel like this is being done to give the Real estate
business a talking point to sell homes on the shore of a shallow gnat and
I honestly think it's more sad that practically 1% of Utahn's have any
sense of commitment to their own state, own traditions, and what makes Utah...
Utah.In 20 years... welcome to Utah, land of the new silicon valley
and great business opportunities... and supposedly a great outdoors... but we
only sell the outdoors when profitable. We aren't actually good stewards
over what we've been given.God created the fish. If we're
the one's responsible for killing it off, we should do something
responsible about it. There's nothing wrong with Utah having something to
it's name more than fry sauce and a good economy. I'm being a bit
absurd, I know... but in many ways I think those who'd argue otherwise
aren't offering a better position. Money doesn't excuse being
irresponsible with the land and creatures around us. I'm a conservative and
by no means a tree huger, but I also don't believe in being reckless.I say, keep the Utah fish!
I like that old phrase, "you never know what you got until its gone."
Protecting wildlife that beautify and restore natural surroundings is very much
a valid public interest. As matter of policy, conservation is important in local
communities . Solely restricting environmental protection to a few isolated
state/national parks that many cannot afford to visit seems a bit under the
mark. Another nice thought that Pete Seeger, among others, promoted
was "think global, act local", which he applied to the Hudson River
valley. The true cost (money/environmental) of poor management of water
resources and the subsequent clean up effort was greater than doing it right the
first time. Environmental planning with a healthy respect for all stakeholders
involved sounds like what is happening here. Its the right approach.
Being only about 12 feet deep at the deepest point, Utah Lake will never look
like Lake Tahoe or Geneva. It is the wrong type of lake for that. However it
can be a lot cleaner than it is now if we could just get rid of the carp. They
stir up the bottom and keep the silt stirred up. The water isn't polluted
just silty. The biggest mistake we would make is to build a bridge
across it. Just get rid of the carp and it will be fine.
Chase, that is one of the silliest comments I've ever seen here. Thanks
for a very imaginative interpretation of Scripture.
I'm glad we're restoring the lower Provo River's habitat and with
it improving the condition of Utah Lake.Those who think this
isn't a serious problem or that it isn't worth taking action
don't understand the history of the river and the lake. They have no vision
of the huge economic and quality of life benefits that would accrue from having
a healthy river and lake - jewels and tourist attractions - rather than a
dredged trench and an algae-filled, polluted cesspool that residents usually try
to put out of their minds.(Did you know that there used to be twelve
lively commercial resorts on Utah Lake, before we ruined the water quality and
replaced native fish with poisoned carp?)I do wonder why the
alternatives- especially the "preferred" alternative- reroute the river
so far north rather than building habitat closer to the river's present
course. Isn't the river already north of where its natural delta was a
century ago? If some of the few property owners along the last miles of the
present channel are upset about the diversion, would they be willing to have
delta habitat in their area instead?
Let's see if I've got this right. . . Conservatives tell us that the
scientific idea evolution is wrong, that God created the earth and all the
animals on it. Humans were set up as the guardians who are charged with
protecting all of creation. . . unless it costs money. Looks like the true God
of conservatives is MONEY.It's now okay to destroy that which
the Lord has created in order to save money. Macnkat asks "Who has made
(given) liberals the final say on all things living?" Liberals in this case
strongly support the creatures created by God, yet conservatives want their god
(money) to have the final decision. The truth comes out.
one old man...Animals were created for man, not man for animals.And since you brought God into the discussion, do you believe God would
be pleased that his children utilized sacred monies (yes, tax is sacred...) for
creatures that were created to die, rather than his underprivileged children who
are in need of assistance by the rest of us?I always wonder how
zealous animal supporters will defend their actions to God. How can you justify
helping animals over people? Animals are not people. I don't recall a
gospel about the salvation of animals.You and I will both be judged
by our actions toward our brothers and sisters, not dogs and cats.
No. We don't need to reroute the river! Problem solved.Thanks. Send me a check for my consulting brilliance.
Imagine a Utah Lake that's as clean and beautiful as Lake Tahoe or Lake
Geneva.That used to exist, but our great-great-grandparents
destroyed it. They used it for a cess pool, and as a farm pond for chinese carp.
We need to put it back. The June Sucker is part of that.When
it's done, Utah Lake will become a jewel in the desert. It should be a
tourist destination. It will be when this project reaches maturity.
Those near the airport need to see the writing on the wall. Get out while you
can. Between airport expansion and the june sucker you guys don't stand a
chance. Sell while the money is there.
Man didn't cause dinosaur extinction. Many species become extinct on their
own, without help from man. Which animals feed on the June Sucker? Not
humans--that's fer darn sure.
The June Sucker... sucks.
Who has given conservatives the right to impose extinction on other living
things? Are they claiming it's their God given right?If so,
I'm sure God's not happy about that kind of arrogance.
Great. This must mean that we've got all of the serious problems in the
state taken care of.
It's amazing that some of these agencies and othersHaven't tried
to bring back the dinosaurs.
Saving a unique fish seems like a worthy idea, but is this goal worth borrowing
more money from china to accomplish it?Does it taste good? If so
plant it other places then it will no longer be endangered.
Save this fish at a huge expense, try to kill all the fish in Utah lake at a
huge expense...the liberals can't seem to make up their minds. Who has made
them the final say so on all things living?