What a let down. Maybe this is an improvement on the current system
but I think that given the number of supporters, CMV could have gone all the
@Peanut Gallery,Your "vetting process" didn't represent
the sentiments of the general populous. This agreement disallows extremest from
hijacking elections and in return leave the decisions to the all of constituents
who are ultimately electing candidates that represent them.Personally I like this agreement better than proposed CMV. AND 100% better
than our outdated system now.
This is a win-win. That is what compromise is all about. There would have been
no change at all in the caucus/convention system had the Count My Vote
initiative not been introduced. There is no guarantee that CMV would have
obtained the necessary county signatures to be put on the ballot and some of the
100,000+ signatures may have been disqualified. Let's try the system for
awhile and see how it works. At least with the LDS church encouraging more
participation, there will be a stronger moderate feel and less extreme attempts
to control the process.
I understand the populist appeal of the idea that "every citizen should have
a vote", after all what's more American than that? But it's
actually a trite phrase meant to be superficial and deceptive. The
caucus/convention system spreads political power throughout the state and
resists the tendency to concentrate it in the population centers. Without it,
no statewide candidate will ever be motivated to acquaint themselves with rural
voters or issues. Our current system does allow every citizen to have a voice;
but in the form of a republic, where smaller groups of citizens choose
representatives. In a pure democracy a single voice is truly lost among the
hundreds of thousands that also try to be heard. The caucus/convention system
provides a reasonable path for any common person to seek political office. If
we abandon this system for a general primary election, the office will go to the
one able to purchase the most advertising; meaning that Utah politics will
become even more of a playground of the rich and famous than it already is.
Doubt this? Read over a list of the supporters of, and donors to, the County My
Vote initiative. You'll see.
Why whine about the compromise? Caucus lovers get to keep their caucus and non
caucus lovers get to vote in a primary if a candidate gets enough support to get
on a primary ballot. A delegate just doesn't get the de facto final say
if the candidate they choose isn't mainstream enough to win in a primary.
I love it! Everyone will have a chance to have a voice now even the moderate
I'm ashamed that the CMV folks sold out. That's all this is. If they
were truly serious about this they would have gotten this on the ballot and let
the people decide, just like they were telling us all along. I am ashamed.
The caucus system is anything but representative. Sure, you can go hang out with
your neighbors for a few hours, two minutes of which can be yours to say your
peace. You can jockey for the handful of delegate slots designated for your
precinct. If you're lucky, the people running the meeting will follow the
rules laid out by the party. If you're really lucky, you might become a
delegate. If you're like the majority of caucus attendees, you won't
become a delegate and most of the nominating process will happen in a forum from
which you are excluded.It's nice that the Count My Vote folks
were able to negotiate an alternative path to the ballot, but 1) the devil is
always in the details, and 2) with this compromise, the myriad flaws of the
caucus system still remain. As long as there is a caucus, party insiders will
continue to exploit those flaws to the detriment of average Utahns. What a sham;
what a shame.
Those unwilling to become affiliated with a political party HAVE NO RIGHT to
vote in the primary election candidates for that party.
This deal effectively gives CMV everything they wanted and weakens the caucuses
to the point that they aren't worth participating in for either delegates
This move is a complete win for CMV as it essentially negates the caucus system
and the convention. Now a big name, big money candidate can completely bypass
the caucus and convention and simply collect a ridiculously low number of
signatures to force a primary.Freedom takes yet another hit.
I never did understand why Sen. Bramble's legislation would invalidate the
Count My Vote initiative, and maybe the media never explained that. Bramble is a
legislator, and as such it is his job to create laws, so I do not fault him for
coming up with a bill. But, how is it that that once the initiative comes along
behind, the initiative does not supercede what Bramble has done, instead of it
being the other way around?Also, I like the suggestion that parties not be
dictated to by the state. Let them nominate whoever they will and in whatever
manner they will. But, they should run and pay for their own primaries, instead
of the state. And, their candidates should not be exended special privileges.
The state should have its own primary, and it should be a primary in which the
parties do not dictate whose names are on the ballot. Whatever process we have
for an independent getting on the ballot should also be required of the party
Mtn Tracker,I attend my caucus meetings and have served as a county
delegate twice. I support Count My Vote. So your statement is wrong.Also, I assume when you stated "Caucus, A chance to listen and TALK to a
candidate, and really vet them" refers to the delegates selected at caucus
meetings who go out and meet with candidates. I have been to caucus meetings
and never saw a candidate at my caucus meetings. After the
delegates are selected they receive invitations from candidates to attend
meetings and get to know them. Delegates also receive numerous articles of
information from candidates. But the general population does not receive this
type of attention until the general election.This is one of the
goals of County My Vote: have more Utah voters be involved in selecting the
general election candidates via a primary.Lastly, you state that
Utah is among the best managed states. If this was true, then why are student
test scores for continuing to drop over time? Why is medicaid so poorly managed
to provide so few benefits? Why have education funds been diverted to
A sigh of relief from me. Though I am not against a good caucus-convention
system, in its present form, it is not an worthy thing. Too often, it is the
playground for party machines, and not the voice of the people. No wonder the
parties hold tight to it, for it empowers political machines, and we might
should consider that that is what they are.
Don't let us down on this one. Don't cave into the legislature now
attempting to thwart the will of the people. Utah voters don't want
anything to do with the caucus system anymore, period. Keep the initiative
alive! We'll take care of our representatives in the legislature who want
to block the initiative.
Caucus, A chance to listen and TALK to a candidate, and really vet them. No
chance of big money or special interest swaying votes. Candidates get some
serious grilling done to them without name recognition or popularity. All of
Utah has an equal say in who is chosen. Caucus's are the way we've
done it in Utah for decades.
Count my Vote, No vetting of candidates. Big money, super packs, and unions
buying votes based on name recognition and popularity. Allows infiltration of
other parties to manipulate the outcome; example (Harry Reid). Claims that
caucuses exclude people from voting when even in the most important elections
we're lucky to get 40% voter turnout. Rural Utah wouldn't exist
anymore if we went to a primary. Why would a candidate spend time and money to
gain a smaller amount of votes. Rural Utah would be past over just like Utah is
past over in presidential elections. Utah is one of the best managed
states in America. We don't have what we have by accident. Everyone
I've talked to that is for count my vote has never even been to a caucus.
They try to paint people who attend as extremist.
This morning I heard there is at least one Utah legislator on the negotiating
team who refuses to go along with the change (to allow the alternate path to the
ballot). Good for him (or her) - I admire your courage and your principled
stand. Too bad others on the negotiating team are willing to give up the store
on this issue. Count My Vote (aka, “BUY My Vote”) is a
bad idea, and so is Sen. Bramble’s bill (SB54), especially the latest
version (which would allow the alternate path). The alternate path would allow
wealthy candidates to simply buy their way onto the ballot, bypassing the
vetting process. The result, in some cases, will be worse candidates who feel
less obligation to represent the people. The caucus/convention
process is the right way to select the candidates for our parties. Sen.
Bramble’s bill would nearly KILL that process, so legislators who are
congratulating themselves for “preserving” the caucus/convention
system with his bill are delusional. Here’s hoping that Count My Vote
and Bramble’s bill are both defeated.
No settlement will be acceptable. Any negotiated settlement will be gutted by
legislative leaders as soon as they can slide provisions into a bill. I still
remember the groundswell of support for a citizen petition to impose term
limits. legislative leaders thwarted that movement by passing a bill imposing
term liits to take effect a few years down the road. But when tine came for term
limits to remove veteran legislators from office a bill was passed revoking the
term limits bills. No settlement. Let it get on the bsllot for the citizens to
vote yes or no.
"Count my Vote"Sure. Already back-room deals are taking
place, and my vote won't count for a hill of beans. Politicians disgust
me. Between this and selling my voter ID info on the open market, I'm
pretty much through with the political process.