I think I could fairly say that there are many here that don't understand
the difference between a democracy and a republic! Count my vote is the
equivalent of mob rule, something that power hungry men love because they can
now manipulate the electorate with there money! The count my vote people are
the establishment republicans, the patronizes, who just want the power! The
people are just a hindrance to their "lofty"plans in office. They are
still ticked off that the new upstart Mike Lee got in and is making a
difference! Count my vote thrives on ignorance, but not here! Voice your
opinion and educate yourself!
After so many low information voters showed up in 2012 I think that most of them
learned their lesson, that politics is not for the faint in heart. Most even
with LDS Church encouragement will not show up again. They just don't want
to put that much effort into the political process. The push for
caucus attendance last time was more about getting Sen Hatch re-elected than
anything else. The Church didn't want Sen Hatch ending up on the political
ash heap along with Sen Bennett. The LDS Church leadership along
with the wealthy and political elite don't want the unwashed masses dumping
their guys in Washington. This is also the motivation behind the cynical Count
My Vote ballot initiative. Utah's caucus, convention, primary
is one of the best systems in the nation for selecting candidates. It allows
candidates to be selected that may not be the choice of the wealthy and
political elite. In a direct primary the candidates are vetted by
the wealthy and political elite. They are not vetted by the people because their
direct contact with regular voters is limited.
This is how it always works. First, they "suggest" that you attend.
Then they "suggest" who's platform you should vote for. But under
no circumstances, do they tell you "how" to vote. Could this Coercion
be any more apparent?
l.ceeRidgefield, WADid you get that? "...church facilities and
meetings are not to be used for political purposes or discussions."No more political jabs, pleadings and snickers will go on in Gospel Doctrine
classes any more.One can only hope.11:42 a.m. Feb. 22,
2014========= Agreed.I've walked out of
Church 2 weeks in a row now from comments being in Gospel doctrine and High
Priest Group.On another note -- Funny to listen to
people complain about "Count My Vote", and do NOTHING about
"Citizens United" - leaving elections to be run and fixed by
Corporations.It's like citizens can't even see our
Democrotic Republic dying and being replaced by;Oligarchy,Plutocracy,Corporatocracy,The Governments of Gadiatons.
DN Subscriber: Contrary to what some extremely conservative elites argue,
"count my vote" is about increasing participation. This statement from
the LDS church is also about increasing participation. So your comment is
misguided. I am a precinct chair, leading caucus meetings regularly, and I also
attend party conventions regularly. But I find it offensive that many who
benefit from the current caucus system always talk like they are better at
choosing candidates than the general public because they are "more
committed." Family, jobs, military service, and many other reasons keep
people away from caucuses - people who deserve the right to have their votes
I think people would be willing to "waste their time" if they felt any
good came from it.
The belief that primaries are better is a false belief. In many states people
win primaries with well under 50% of the votes cast. Nor have I yet been
convinced that participation in primaries is actually higher.
As long as they have voting machines where the vote is counted in a foreign
country, or not counted manually within my district from paper vote cards, I
don't want any part in the establishments voter fraud scheme. You can have
We are watching so much of this country eroding. Just this past week the FCC
announced plans to infiltrate news organizations; including the press, with
federal agents to 'monitor' them - call it what you will, but a
blatant strike against the First Amendment.We can blame such decay
on our government leaders, but over the past few generations, we the people have
been leaving things up to others to deal with. This is demonstrated by comments
such as 'it was a waste of my time -- 3 hours'. Perhaps there is a
better system - I'm not familiar with the 'Count My Vote'
thing.But what ever process is used, regular people need to start
making a difference - voting is good, but apparently we need to do more than to
just vote for the candidates the establishment has chosen for us.
@Life,Yes, my brother in law works at that the Church office and he
said millions are leaving, but he asked me a good question. Do you want to
follow the crowd or follow the leader?
Yes, everybody showed up last time, so much so that A bunch of people
couldn't get in, it was crowded, sweaty, hot, and went way over time. I
really wish the fire Marshall could close the whole shebang down. Time for the
Count My Vote and let's start treating the people of Utah with respect.
Rather than give into the old clique and cronies.
I really don't know what to think. We had the caucuses two years ago and
look how much good it did. Hatch, who nefariously went on to vote for the
"Gang-of-Eight" bill among other things, and his supporters were able to
use a huge, Hatch-size campaign budget to influence the elections; only he did
so through the framework of the caucus system, rather than some other sort of
system, but alas was able to do it. The caucus attendees had been coached well
on a few, magic words, and that was that. So again, I really don't know
what to think.
So basically, the Church doesn’t care who you vote for, so long as you
vote for somebody.Well all righty then. My Libertarian Party
membership should pose no problem in that case, right?Right.
Did you get that? "...church facilities and meetings are not to be used for
political purposes or discussions."No more political jabs,
pleadings and snickers will go on in Gospel Doctrine classes any more.One can only hope.
When the Church came out 2 years ago encouraging members to be involved, it
brought a much needed moderate feel to the process. The caucus system only works
when the majority of moderates in the state get involved which keeps the
extremes in check. I have been a delegate numerous times since 1988 and have
seen the problems with the caucus system when extremes try to control the
process. Count My Vote is a much more responsible way to let all of our voices
be heard; not just a select few.
" just going to a poll and casting a vote"? Really?
Um, they forgot to say, "and be sure to vote your conscience".
@DN SubscriberI don't find it empowering to give up my vote to some
other person that I just have to hope votes for the person I want in the end.
The only person you are hurting by not attending the caucus meeting is yourself.
You are letting other people choose your representatives. The caucus
had been largely ignored up until about 2010. Those who are organizing the
meetings can only go from previous experience when planning. I hosted my
precinct's 2012 caucus, where we went from about 20 people in 2010 to 100
in 2012. Now that our precinct has had a large number attend, I am hoping this
year we get more volunteers to help run it and a bigger room. These
things don't just magically come together. If you want to improve your
meeting, contact your precinct chair or your party's planning committee and
volunteer to help.
@Mike, if the meeting was run inefficiently, did you voice your opinion about
it? did you suggest them how to improve? just curious. I just want to know if
they so hear your opinion during caucus or not.
"I will come back to a caucus in this state when I am satisfied this state
government..."The state doesn't run the caucus meetings. The
parties themselves run them. And yes, they are long and frustrating and
inefficiently run. We need to dump the caucus system.
They'd really rather have Count My Vote but it appears letters to the
congregations are the best they can do at the moment.
This will irritate the "count my vote" schemers who want to put the
power back in the hands of party elites, wealthy candidates and the media eager
for huge advertising income from eliminating the voice of people at the grass
roots level.Support the caucus system by attending and
participating. It is a real eye-opening experience and empowers the average
citizen. Then, refuse to sign the deceptively named "count my
vote" petition, and vote AGAINST it, if it makes it to the ballot.Power to the people, not the media elites, party bosses and wealthy
If this is what it takes to get more people to the meetings than any political
person of influence might be able to, it really provides some insight into
really runs the place.
Or if you want to make a real difference, attend the Constitution Party Caucus
in your area. Most of them are being held on Thursday the 27th of March so as
not to conflict with the Rs and Ds. We support the caucus system believing it to
be the best way to involve those who are interested and willing to inform
themselves and get involved in the process of selecting our representatives.
Killing the caucuses will only make it easier for the central committees and
those with lots of money to make those selections without any input whatsoever
from your local neighbors and friends.
Have fun if you happen to enjoy crowds, long waits, and so forth. I've got
higher priorities to spend time on (i.e. spend time with my wife and children)
than spend 2-3 hours on this again. Especially after the last time
I went to one of these meetings. It went way longer than the invitation stated
(invitation said 2 hours; the meeting lasted three and a half hours), was run so
inefficiently my teenagers could have done a better job, and we ended up voting
several times manually (not electronically) for the same positions again and
again. I was in such disbelief amid my festering frustration and aggravation I
left early. I will come back to a caucus in this state when I am
satisfied this state government and its citizens are serious about running
efficient caucus meetings.
Caucuses allow citizens to be more closely involved than just going to a poll
and casting a vote. Stick with the current political system!
This will do more to get people to the meetings than anything political
"persons of influence" in either party could accomplish.