Utefan60, the money paid into social security fraudulently, does not go to the
Social security trust fund. Also people who have had their number stolen, do not
get any benefit from the money paid. So there is no real benefit. By
law, the Social Security administration is suppose to warn us when someone is
using our number. Like many other laws, it has not been enforced, and people are
not being notified.
A good benefit for older Americans is that Billions is paid into Social Security
through false numbers set up for illegals to work. That money is never
recovered by that individual paying with that illegal information. According to
statistics up to 11 billion per year is paid into Social Security that will
never be recovered by those people with illegal documentation. Just a silver
lining in an otherwise difficult deal.
2 bit, why do you think that Federal taxes are the only taxes we pay? Do you
really think that way? Is this why you people are attempting to make 50
different nation states rather than one nation? You are missing much my friend.
Ever predictably, the unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens are chiming in.
Despite their false insinuations, Americans are the hardest working,
the most creative and the most productive in the world. But the greedy
businessman's lie -- that hard work is its own reward, that a fair wage
doesn't matter -- only goes so far.Pay an American a fair and
justly-earned wage. He will do the job.@Ajax"This
job thing is a ruse and the illegality issue largely an excuse. Both are cover
for deeper motives. I wonder what those might be."Yeah, Ajax, I
wonder what those might be. Veiled accusations of Racism are among
the standard lies used by employers of illegal aliens. I wonder
what their motives are? Answer: Enhanced profit, through employment
of cheap, illegal-alien labor and without regard for the well-being of society
@SLars:"We need business leaders that don't need to break our
laws to succeed."What we need is a president who doesn't
need to break our laws (immigration) to succeed. He sets the example."And remember it was the American worker that built this country."Yes, together with entrepreneurship and capital formation.
Let's keep in mind that only 3% of those here illegally work in
agriculture. The majoriy of workers here illegally don't want to work in
agriculture. The problem is not with American workers. If businss
and the pro-illegal groups could not talk about the children or agriculture,
they would never be able to convince us to accept illegal immigration and
amnesty. We need business leaders that don't need to break our
laws to succed. And remember it was the American worker that built this country.
If our leaders had not used taxpayer money to fund unemployment this
conversation would be much different, and American workers would have been very
vocal over lack of enforcement. They bought our silence.
@Bubble:"'Unemployment is over 10 percent' have you
ever heard the saying that if you need to lie to make your point maybe you
don't have one to make?"True. The real unemployment rate,
if you consider those who've stopped looking for work because there's
none to be found, is around 17 percent.@Irony Guy:"When
Alabama drove out the migrant workers a few years ago, the crops rotted in the
fields because 'real Americans' wouldn't take the harvesting
jobs."That's because 'real Americans' could
collect unemployment... which is probably twice what could be made working.@Hutterite:"I'd bet you couldn't get a 'real
american' to pick lettuce at twice the wage of those who do."That's because the 'real American' is home drawing
unemployment... did I say.
The blue-ribbon, national, non-partisan Commission on Immigration Reform, called
in 1994 for "enhanced enforcement efforts targeted at farm labor and other
contractors who hire unauthorized workers on behalf of agricultural growers and
other businesses." According to the executive director of the California
Institute for Rural Studies "In terms of constant dollars, there's been
a significant decline in wages, we think by over 25 percent, over the last 20
years."(New York Times, March 31, 1997We allowed business
interests to chase Americans from the farms, so they could use cheaper labor,
now they can't afford to go back. The same thing is happening to
construction, hospitality and the service industry. Jobs that can't be
deported, and needed by the American worker. I can't speak for
Alabama, but my cousin (retired) took his children to work in the fields in
Georgia. They were fired after a few hours work and told they were over
From the Salt Lake City Deseret News, August 4, 1998 "The Immigration
Reform and Control Act of 1986 was opposed by agricultural interests because the employer sanctions against hiring illegal aliens adopted in that
law were perceived as likely to end the supply of illegal aliens and
financially ruin the producers. To ease their fears, a provision was
adopted in the law that allowed for a supply of "replenishment
agricultural workers" to be admitted if a labor shortage were found to
exist. To determine whether a shortage was arising, the Department of
Labor set up a National Agricultural Worker Survey, and a national
bipartisan Commission on Agricultural Workers was created to study the
data and recommend to Congress whether to open the door for the
program.The study was completed and reported to Congress on February
17, 1993 that there was an oversupply of farm labor. The new employers sanction
measures had failed to deter the influx of illegal aliens and the surplus of
labor was condemning agricultural workers to continue to toil in deteriorating
wage and worksite environmental conditions. All governmental and non-
partisan reports since that time have echoed the same conclusion." Surplus labor depresses wages and forces citizens out of jobs.
"Compare the Obama years with the rest of the graph... there's no
denying it's not good.", and you can sit around and blame Obama, or you
can join reality and acknowledge that we had the second worst economic era in
modern history that not only destroyed good jobs, but also cleaned out all the
non productive jobs that were hanging around from the bubble and never will come
back. Then you can join the conversation about what do we do now.
Actually one of the most cogent discussions I've heard about
the topic was an interview on NPR with Marco Rubio. He had the sense to stop
simply ranting about Obama and actually had a very good meta perspective on how
to re-build and fill the job holes left by the recession with productive value
based jobs in the future.I have no idea if I'd agree with his
tactics but his strategy was spot on. Yea I know pick your jaw up off the
floor. Democrats and liberals will actually listen when Republicans have
something sane to say. BTW, that's exactly why Democrats
didn't listen in the health care debate.
Bubbles; U-6 unemployment rate is currently 13%.June 3 2013; The Black
American Leadership Conference this morning issued an open letter calling on
members of Congress to oppose the current immigration proposal, arguing
increased competition for low-skill jobs would hurt Americans, particularly
black Americans, struggling to find work. In 1979 testimony to
Congress, Chavez complained, "... when the farm workers strike and their
strike is successful, the employers go to Mexico and have unlimited,
unrestricted use of illegal alien strikebreakers to break the strike.There is no question that illegal labor hurts America's poor by driving
down wages, and the middle class by costing us more in taxes. It's time we
stop business and their un-American ways.
Basic economics lesson. Supply and demand. The greater the supply, the lower the
demand. They are inverse. So when we add lots of labor, cheap illegal labor, the
demand drops and the price of labor drops with it. If the economic
outlook was brighter, with less oppressive government weighing everything down,
the unemployment rate would drop and the wages would go up. This is the opposite
of having the government tax and regulate to death most companies, while it
gives money to its chosen industries (Solyndra and such). If we could achieve a
need for labor, we could afford to bring in more legal immigrants to fill that
need. We would be more secure, because we would know who they are, or more
importantly who they are not (terrorists). Rewarding the free-flow
of illegals suppresses the economy/jobs market, and puts the whole country at
security risk. I will save my compassion for the safety of our children and
country as a whole.When we have our house in order, we have been
very generous to other countries. We are losing that ability to debt,
joblessness, and internal illegal activity (much of it committed by our
2bits Interesting i will have to look into that.
Wages are a product of supply and demand. Presently there is a labor surplus
causing stagnant wages. Millions of American jobs have been lost to automation,
mechanization and manufacturing going to cheap labor countries. Millions of
American jobs are also being lost to legal and illegal immigrant labor. There
is nothing that can be done about jobs lost to automation, mechanization or
off-shoring of jobs, but there is no reason to import more legal and illegal
labor to compete with Americans and suppress wages. Never trust a
politician or newspaper that claims to support reducing unemployment and ending
wage stagnation that also supports continuing the flood of foreign unskilled as
well as skilled labor. They are really on the side of the wealthy elite, not the
side of the American wage earner. Those that say immigrants are needed to do the
dirty work are either very arrogant or the employers that claim the need for
cheap labor. If the labor surplus were reduced, wages would
increase, even at these so called dirty jobs that are supposedly beneath
American workers. When wages are high enough workers will take the jobs
including milking cows, roofing, and making hotel beds.
Send the illegals home, let them come back with proper papers and intent to be
obedient to the laws of the land. They need to learn English and owe
their allegiance to this countryif they want the benefits of this
country.Having lived in California near the border, I know of the
lawlessness of those who come hereillegally to gain the ability to work,
take advantage of our systems of food stamps, medical care, take money under the
table (meaning they are not paying taxes) and any other source they need to be
able to benefit on American largesse.
intervention,RE: "the number the government publishes is he same
official unemployment number we have used since they stared recording
unemployment"...Truth is... the calculation has changed 3 times
in the last 30 years.In 1994, the Bureau of Labor Statistics
redefined "the workforce" to include only that small percentage of the
discouraged who had been seeking work for less than a year.USA Today
(12/28/10)"Citing what it calls "an unprecedented rise" in
long-term unemployment, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), beginning
Saturday, will raise from two years to five years the upper limit on how long
someone can be listed as having been jobless".===When unemployment is measured according to the formula that was used when
President Bill Clinton took office, it is actually around 20%. ===formula aside.Google "Unemployment Rate -
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data"...The graph is very revealing.
Compare the Obama years with the rest of the graph... there's no denying
it's not good.
intervention:You mean that number that was deliberately manipulated
to show a dramatic drop in unemployment a month before the last election to help
Obama win back the presidency?Just like the latest Obamacare
enrollee numbers coming out of this administration, we can't trust any
number reported by Washington these days.
@joethe number "the government publishes" is he same official
unemployment number we have used since they stared recording unemployment, to
claim other numbers is at best suspect.
"Why not some compassion for American workers who've been displaced by
illegal labor..."There is compassion for the American worker put
out of work by an illegal worker... It's call 'unemployment
benefits.' The Unemployed American can get up to 115 months (over two
years) of benefits while they sit home watching the illegal do the work.
ugottabkidnRe: "Remember that employed immigrants, legal or illegal,
pay taxes, social security"...How can an ILLEGAL immigrant pay
taxes (you need a SS# to pay taxes). How can they pay Social Security taxes (you
need a SS# to pay social security taxes). You need a SS# to get insurance. You
need a SS# to register for school....How do you do all these things
without a SS#??You have to adopt one (from the black market). And
that is illegal to the max. It's not a victimless crime (like coming here
illegally). That... is a REAL crime (punishable by time in prison IF you're
a US Citizen).
The problem with immigration reform is that few have any solution, left or
right. Should we start with lawbreakers, such as employers who skirt the law for
cheap labor? Who does it benefit to ignore the immigration laws for the past 35
plus years? How will name calling Chris B enforce the law on 11 million plus
immigrants and will he enforce it on all nationalities or just one particular
segment? Will he pass laws to profile legal citizens just because they resemble
the undocumented? Remember that employed immigrants, legal or illegal, pay
taxes, social security, and do contribute so think of this when you come up with
your great solutions. If wages for the middle class keep getting suppressed
we'll all be immigrating to Canada, Australia, or Europe to send funds back
to our families.
@hutterite,I'll glady watch my lettuce(and fast food and hotel)
prices increase while we watch education, healthcare, and a variety of other
costs decrease. Illegal immigrants should go back to their country and show
they are law abiding people.Where are your similar feelings when
jobs are sent because others are willing to do the work for a quarter of the
price and "real americans" wont do it for twice the wages of those in
other countries? Flip, flop, flip, flop
Bubble: "...have you ever heard the saying that if you need to lie to make
your point maybe you don't have one to make?"I don't
believe that saying unemployment is over 10% is a lie. I guess it depends on
your definition of "unemployed".If you define it as the
number of people who would start working tomorrow if a job became available that
matched their skills, then it is definitely over 10%.If you define
it as that number published each month by the government that doesn't
include those who no longer qualify for unemployment insurance or those who have
given up hope, then you can say it is under 10%.
I'm not anti-immigrant, but I have to state the obvious.Currently teenagers are the ones affected (because they traditionally did the
"jobs Americans won't do"). Jobs now reserved for immigrants. So
teenagers are having a hard time finding a job at a decent wage (because other
people will do the same jobs for less).People who came to America
illegally to do the jobs Americans won't do rather than starve... Naturally
will stay in the shadows and do those jobs. They were desperate, and willing to
take the jobs Americans won't do. But their children (who are educated in
American Schools, grew up watching MTV, shopping the malls, and living the
American lifestyle)... will they be willing to do the jobs Americans won't
do? I don't think so.They will be competing for the jobs
Americans WANT to do.The children will be our engineers, layers,
managers, politicians, etc. That's OK. They are citizens. But that
generation will drive down the wage of SKILLED workers (not McDonalds workers).
And that generation's population will be at least double todays (if each
couple has 2 children).
I'd bet you couldn't get a 'real american' to pick lettuce
at twice the wage of those who do.
When Alabama drove out the migrant workers a few years ago, the crops rotted in
the fields because "real Americans" wouldn't take the harvesting
jobs. The premise of this letter is a fantasy.
The forces of anarchy have brought about a situation in which there is no
enforcement of a uniform code of legal residency. We are surrounded by tens of
millions of those who have illegally entered, and do continue to work, drive,
trade and receive benefits, at the expense of legal residents, and Congress
seems to want "post ipso facto" laws legitimizing existing illegality.
Isn't that what it amounts to?What is the source of this evil?
The love of money is, we read, the root of ALL evil, including the evil of
rampant lawlessness. Come on Congress! We need a majority of you do something
useful and honest in your lives.
@ajaxYou are right and the problem is they are far more transparent
then they woudl like to think. At the same time they want a severe crackdown on
illegal immigration they are also fighting to do away with welfare and the
minimum wage. Its not to hard to see through the claims of compassion.
I generally eschew simple answers but this is one case where the harder you look
the more simple the answer is. It seems there are only two answers.
First; Americans are too lazy to do manual labor and therefore we need to
import folks who will, and lucky us they will do the work for cheap. Second the wages are so cheap that you can't live on them therefore
Americans won't take back breaking work for wages that don't provide a
life. Regardless of how you combine the problems either Americans
are lazy or wages are too low to attract Americans. You choose
conservatives. Personally I fall on the side of if wages were
livable you would see a lot more American citizens framing houses.
This job thing is a ruse and the illegality issue largely an excuse. Both are
cover for deeper motives. I wonder what those might be.
Liberal leaders don't acknowledge those who don't have jobs due to
illegal aliens. The income inequality, they persist in talking about and claim
they want to fix, is made worse by illegal labor taking jobs at substandard
wages undercutting citizens ability to work. I suspect the liberal
masses are really ignorant of the damage their policies heap on citizens
(themselves and their children), and the leaders don't care because they
know it is the big businesses that fund their campaigns. The average
citizen is not a person to democrat leaders, they are just dehumanized votes,
and they feel the same way about illegals. The deomcrats'
'compassion' is just a ruse, totally fake, to get reelected.
"Unemployment is over 10 perecent" have you ever heard the saying that
if you need to lie to make your point maybe you don't have one to make?
Its hypocritical that liberals embrace and support illegal immigrants being here
and being able to take law abiding Americans' jobs but then get upset if a
company sends jobs overseas. In either case, the result is jobs moving from
Americans to others. There is no difference. Except for the fact one is
illegal and one is notEnforce the laws and don't reward illegal
aliens for their illegal decisions
It is disgusting the way the true and holy principle of Compassion is being
hijacked, perverted and used as a masquerade for pure, unadulterated GREED. If it really were about compassion, businessmen wouldn't be doing
all in their power to circumvent paying their fellow American the wage he justly
has earned and deserves. Instead they would have a little
compassion for the American citizen right under their noses who do suffer
greatly in a wide variety of ways as a result of illegal immigration and illegal
employment of illegal aliens. Nor is there true compassion in
rewarding dishonesty and illegality.
Setting aside this article's slew of horrendous factual inaccuracies, the
letter writer seems to unintentionally make a case for complete amnesty of
undocumented workers. Were undocumented immigrants given a pathway
to citizenship they would no longer be subject to poor treatment and low wages
at the hands of their employers. Indeed, the companies that currently hire them
would be forced to actually pay their workers in accordance with our laws,
etc... - no more "under-the-table" employees. Then, perhaps the letter
writer's fictitious "coming-of-age" job market for teens would come
back to life b/c those teenagers would be able to compete w/ immigrants since
wages would be comparable.